Definitely worth $20 (or more) for the glass eyeshields alone. Not sure though if I like what looks like a pushbutton power switch---I like toggle switches better for stationary power tools. Great catch!!So why not bring this zombie thread back to life?
What do you think of this January 1954 build pre-block? How about for $20?
"Pre-Block" Grinders--Where's the Love?
- Thread starter exmaxima1
- Start date
TM, that's not a Pre-Block 1/4hp. It has an alloy housing and the switch is above the quench tray knockout hole (Pre-Blocks don't have quench trays). I maintain that 1/4hp Pre-Blocks don't have end covers.OK, I stand corrected. There are 1/4-HP pre-Blocks with wheel guard covers. Model 397.19400.
torqueman2002
Well-known member
@exmaxima1 I would agree with you on the switch.
I'm in to this now for ~$30 with addition of new power cord and new switch [on the way].
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Good looking grinder for $30! Haven't seen a toggle switch like that in a long time.
lafester
Well-known member
If you angle the grinders you can have better access to the wheels.
I've been running a setup like this for a few years now, love that stand.
I've been running a setup like this for a few years now, love that stand.
gatewaysysop
Well-known member
Found my unicorn yesterday, the 115.6965, 1/3 HP, 7" grinder.
Story goes it was the seller's first wife's grandfather's and was sitting in the seller's garage for the last 20 years.
As found:
Missing the quench tray and one of the side covers, but I can live with that. Otherwise intact, including the light bulbs, glass and original 1940s 2-prong plug and rubber cord.
After some clean-up earlier today:
Need to find a stand for it, and some new wheels, but she purrs like a kitten and runs strong. Makes my other block and even my pre-block look like toys.
Been pinching myself all day while cleaning it up and still cannot believe I snagged one of these, much less in this condition.
Story goes it was the seller's first wife's grandfather's and was sitting in the seller's garage for the last 20 years.
As found:
Missing the quench tray and one of the side covers, but I can live with that. Otherwise intact, including the light bulbs, glass and original 1940s 2-prong plug and rubber cord.
After some clean-up earlier today:
Need to find a stand for it, and some new wheels, but she purrs like a kitten and runs strong. Makes my other block and even my pre-block look like toys.
Been pinching myself all day while cleaning it up and still cannot believe I snagged one of these, much less in this condition.
firstyearchevelle
Well-known member
Last weekend I found this at a garage sale. $10 and it works. Still needs to be cleaned up. 1961?
old is gold when comes to basic bench grinders, silly cheap on used market and they proper powerful and robust .
When I first started my repair shop I picked up old grinder at yard sale and it still going perfectly today ...
They have more centrifugal mass, vibrate less and got good torque versus average newer models unless more high end industrial .
When I first started my repair shop I picked up old grinder at yard sale and it still going perfectly today ...
They have more centrifugal mass, vibrate less and got good torque versus average newer models unless more high end industrial .
Old Radar
Well-known member
Post this find on the Garage Sale thread and I'll tell you how much you ****!Last weekend I found this at a garage sale. $10 and it works. Still needs to be cleaned up. 1961?
McBrownie
Well-known member
We
Last weekend I found this at a garage sale. $10 and it works. Still needs to be cleaned up. 1961?
That's how I read the date code as well.
I would read “I” as the ninth letter of the alphabet. So, September 1961.
SquareWave
Well-known member
lafester
Well-known member
Nice~ These are the oldest craftsman grinders. That one is in great shape for sure. The 1/2 hp version is almost always trashed.
Look for the dunlop 1/3 hp version for replacement eye shields... still very rare but your best bet to find some for decent money.
Look for the dunlop 1/3 hp version for replacement eye shields... still very rare but your best bet to find some for decent money.
SquareWave
Well-known member
Hey thanks, it's crazy to realize this grinder is almost 80 years old! I will do my best to preserve this one. I'm not sure if I want to repaint. I did have a noise coming from the right side bearing. I pulled off the right side wheel housing and packed some grease as best I could into the bearing and voilá! No more noise.
I'm on the fence if I should do a full restor or just rock it as is.
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wrenchguy
Well-known member
Nice originals only original once.
SquareWave
Well-known member
Question!? So when I pulled the left side housing off I found 2 of these little springs stacked on each other.
When I pulled off the right side there were no springs. Did the PO mistakenly put both springs on the same side? Is there supposed to be 1 spring on both sides?
Also what kind of grease are people using for these bearings?
Thank for your guidance.
When I pulled off the right side there were no springs. Did the PO mistakenly put both springs on the same side? Is there supposed to be 1 spring on both sides?
Also what kind of grease are people using for these bearings?
Thank for your guidance.
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torqueman2002
Well-known member
I have not rebuilt your style/model Craftsman grinder. However, I have done many dozens of the Block style grinders.
I've attached a picture of the spring washer orientation. The 'legs' are pointed towards the outer race of the bearing (shielded/sealed in this example). I have seen one on each side of the rotor, never two together.
I would use automotive wheel bearing grease. The grinder should never get as hot as a car bearing, so it should be fine.
The fiber washers keep the large pieces of debris out of the bearings. Clean the fiber washers in mineral spirits, you might want to put a few drops of light oil on them before installation.
I've attached a picture of the spring washer orientation. The 'legs' are pointed towards the outer race of the bearing (shielded/sealed in this example). I have seen one on each side of the rotor, never two together.
I would use automotive wheel bearing grease. The grinder should never get as hot as a car bearing, so it should be fine.
The fiber washers keep the large pieces of debris out of the bearings. Clean the fiber washers in mineral spirits, you might want to put a few drops of light oil on them before installation.
SquareWave
Well-known member
@torqueman2002 thank you! I am in the middle of trying to decide if I want to open up the grinder and do a clean up, or just put some grease in the bearings and run it. I can't wait to put this grinder on duty in my shop.
Question. What's the best way to bring the original paint back to life? I want to keep the patina but also want to shine it up a bit if at all possible. Thanks
Question. What's the best way to bring the original paint back to life? I want to keep the patina but also want to shine it up a bit if at all possible. Thanks
torqueman2002
Well-known member
I'd try something like Simple Green, or Murphy's Oil Soap. Then maybe a gentle waxer/cleaner, ie: McGuires.
MattGavriloff
Well-known member
Late to the party, but here is the 1/4HP I just got for free. (I work at a store that's closing, and this was taken out of stock, and put on the bench in 1965 when the building opened. GREAT backstory!)
Model 397.19571. (Delco made correct?)
I've read most of the "block grinder" threads and have only seen this model one or two other times I think. This would be the first year of the aluminum so called "transition/mailbox block" if I'm understanding correctly?
Power cord was brittle and nasty so I already hacked it off before these pictures. Easy fix. I did plug it in first and it spins up and down quietly and very smoothly considering there is a decent chip out of the HEAVILY worn stone. (and yes, I hid behind a door while I test ran it)
Am I reading correctly that people are saying the 1/4hp models didn't have end covers? This one certainly does, and I can't imagine they aren't original?
Deciding between a simple clean up, or a paint and restore. Needs eye shields at least and ive found several links to help with that. Small dent in the center cover that I should be able to smooth out.
Any of the gurus have a link to the manual for this specific model, or one that's known to be the same parts? Couldn't find the exact one on vintage machinery when I looked but my internet Kung Foo isn't always the best.
Model 397.19571. (Delco made correct?)
I've read most of the "block grinder" threads and have only seen this model one or two other times I think. This would be the first year of the aluminum so called "transition/mailbox block" if I'm understanding correctly?
Power cord was brittle and nasty so I already hacked it off before these pictures. Easy fix. I did plug it in first and it spins up and down quietly and very smoothly considering there is a decent chip out of the HEAVILY worn stone. (and yes, I hid behind a door while I test ran it)
Am I reading correctly that people are saying the 1/4hp models didn't have end covers? This one certainly does, and I can't imagine they aren't original?
Deciding between a simple clean up, or a paint and restore. Needs eye shields at least and ive found several links to help with that. Small dent in the center cover that I should be able to smooth out.
Any of the gurus have a link to the manual for this specific model, or one that's known to be the same parts? Couldn't find the exact one on vintage machinery when I looked but my internet Kung Foo isn't always the best.
Attachments
lafester
Well-known member
Nice grinder! Why do you need the manual?
MattGavriloff
Well-known member
Thank you!
Personal curiousity/posterity...no other reason...lol...
Personal curiousity/posterity...no other reason...lol...
William Payne
Well-known member
In my experience what makes something “collectable” doesn’t always make sense. It will either be something unique about specific years/models or just nostalgia.
Old Radar
Well-known member
Is it just me or is there no ON-OFF switch? I see the knock-out where the switch should be, but nothing else. Did it have an in-line switch on the cord or was it a plug-in-to-run setup?
SquareWave
Well-known member
MattGavriloff
Well-known member
You are correct Radar. It was built as plug in to run. The power cord was plain with no switch either. It does have the knockouts for a switch in the lower horizontal surface of the center band as well as for a light in the back, but neither have been punched out.
I assume that center band was the same on the 6" models of either 1/4 or 1/3 hp? Some just didn't get the fancy bits...lol
I assume that center band was the same on the 6" models of either 1/4 or 1/3 hp? Some just didn't get the fancy bits...lol
Old Radar
Well-known member
I don't think it would take much to wire a switch and install it in the front knockout--safer, too.
MattGavriloff
Well-known member
Easy peasy to wire in a little metal toggle that would look close enough to correct and fit the space I think. I'm just not sure my endgame with this grinder yet, and it may end up near a switched outlet in my garage anyways.
I think I'm going to tear the sides and tool rests off, clean it up a bit, rewire a cord, replace the stones, and see if it runs as smooth as my initial test after that. I can do that without putting any $$ into it, and barring any surprises I'll get shields for it and add a switch at that point if it's going to end up being used regularly. (Yes I have a face shield to use during testing before I add them...
I think I'm going to tear the sides and tool rests off, clean it up a bit, rewire a cord, replace the stones, and see if it runs as smooth as my initial test after that. I can do that without putting any $$ into it, and barring any surprises I'll get shields for it and add a switch at that point if it's going to end up being used regularly. (Yes I have a face shield to use during testing before I add them...
SquareWave
Well-known member
Old Radar
Well-known member
Only the 1/4hp cast iron "Pre-Block" grinders, the theme of this thread, have no end covers. You have a later "Block" grinder based on its aluminum alloy construction and location of the power switch (and completely different guts if you looked inside).
Caveman613
Member
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2022
- Messages
- 23
Hi..... this is my first post here so I would like to introduce myself ..... I go by Caveman because I have been called that for still holding the door for the ladies. (also did a lot of cave exploring when I was young but I digress) I'm a retired(for now) old time Machinist/Toolmaker and have used machines that predate the age of everyone on here. Way before CNC machines came into being. Although I do set up and run CNC machining centers also.
I'm 65 and have been using grinders for hand sharpening and making custom one off cutting tools since I quit school to go to work in a Machine shop when I was 16 Yrs old. So I've seen and used a LOT of grinders in my time.
I'm posting now solely because of the topic of this thread. " "Pre-Block" Grinders--Where's the Love?"
I've read MANY threads over the years about BLOCK grinders and started getting angry years ago when someone started spreading the **** that CAST IRON block grinders are "not TRUE block grinders" and therefore not as collectable or as valuable. I especially got angry when a newbe to grinders was told to just get rid of his "PRE-BLOCK" cast iron grinder and get a real one. The steam comes out of my ears just recalling that !!
That was YEARS AGO and I saw that "PRE-BLOCK" nonsense take off across the internet at lighting speed just repeating what they had read elsewhere without even questioning it ! At that point I figured that FALSE idea had spread so much that it wasn't worth my time or effort to try to correct the BOZO that started it !! I even did a LOT of research and found the company that designed them had changed ownership a couple of times and maybe renamed also but I can't recall right now. But the design was traceable right back to the CAST IRON MODELS . Think about it .....they look BLOCKY hence "Block" grinder. Cast iron has nothing to do with the shape . Common sense??
The first post in this thread by the OP sums it up. Let me make this clear !!! The CAST IRON BLOCK GRINDERS (Maybe not the one with the indented front for the water tray because they just look different) are probably the best BLOCK GRINDERS that were ever made. I have block grinders that are 1/4hp, 1/3hp, and 1/2hp and have taken them apart. The CAST IRON BLOCK (NO PRE **** in front) is the best most robust made out of all of them. I have pics comparing the windings and iron motor core of my cast iron 1/3hp to a Craftsman Commercial 1/2hp and the cast iron Block Grinder is just plain made BETTER. I've built prototype machines from the ground up so I'm not coming from nowhere when I say that. They both take 7"x1" wheels but the early cast iron just runs smoother. AGAIN.....I have pictures side by side. Don't know how to upload but will soon!
The windings are thicker ! The iron core is bigger ! The cast iron model even has CAST ALUMINUM cooling fans built in. In a 1956 Craftsman Power Tool catalog my 1/3hp grinder was being sold for $48.95. That's equivalent to $526.03 in 2022. How may grinders today cost $523 ?? That should be a wake up call right there ! The BEST cast iron block in 1956 was the 1/2hp model and that went for $69.95 !! That's equivalent to $751.70 in 2022 adjusted for inflation! So if anyone tells me that the CAST IRON BLOCK grinder was inferior to the later aluminum models all I can say is put your money where your mouth is. I'll match it in an escrow while I'm digging up all my old research, posting pics, and taking measurements for PROOF!
I'll also SWAP anyone a newer aluminum block in good shape for a cast iron if your in the Philadelphia area. Can be beat looking just be complete and working. That's how much I like the cast iron models.
How many times have you seen products go downhill in quality because the investors want to make more money ?? Just look at the Dayton grinders..... they have PLASTIC wheel housings now ! Probably made over seas somewhere instead of the U.S.A now to try to compete with Chinese JUNK prices. Yes there are GOOD Chinese products but most are good at making JUNK LOOK like good products but that's another topic.
I have to find where I read the Craftsman advertisement that stated the cast Iron model is capable of drawing TWICE the amperage that it's rated for before stalling. Simply put..... the HP was UNDER RATED (notice it was not "NEMA" rated then. ) and it was OVER BUILT.
Both the 1/3hp and the BEST 1/2hp model were both made to be used in Machine Shops and Factories also.
Let me sum this up by thanking all of you at the GarageJournal for enlightening me so some many things over the years. This site is one of a kind! The BEST ! I'm sorry to be long winded but I just couldn't stay silent when I saw this thread topic. I know there are many of you that know what I'm talking about already but that BOZO that started the PRE **** for ALL the cast iron models years ago is probably still spreading his horse manure. It's late now so I will try to learn how to upload the pics later.
Thank you for this thread and STAY SAFE!
P,S. My 1/3 hp has cast iron side covers too!
I'm 65 and have been using grinders for hand sharpening and making custom one off cutting tools since I quit school to go to work in a Machine shop when I was 16 Yrs old. So I've seen and used a LOT of grinders in my time.
I'm posting now solely because of the topic of this thread. " "Pre-Block" Grinders--Where's the Love?"
I've read MANY threads over the years about BLOCK grinders and started getting angry years ago when someone started spreading the **** that CAST IRON block grinders are "not TRUE block grinders" and therefore not as collectable or as valuable. I especially got angry when a newbe to grinders was told to just get rid of his "PRE-BLOCK" cast iron grinder and get a real one. The steam comes out of my ears just recalling that !!
That was YEARS AGO and I saw that "PRE-BLOCK" nonsense take off across the internet at lighting speed just repeating what they had read elsewhere without even questioning it ! At that point I figured that FALSE idea had spread so much that it wasn't worth my time or effort to try to correct the BOZO that started it !! I even did a LOT of research and found the company that designed them had changed ownership a couple of times and maybe renamed also but I can't recall right now. But the design was traceable right back to the CAST IRON MODELS . Think about it .....they look BLOCKY hence "Block" grinder. Cast iron has nothing to do with the shape . Common sense??
The first post in this thread by the OP sums it up. Let me make this clear !!! The CAST IRON BLOCK GRINDERS (Maybe not the one with the indented front for the water tray because they just look different) are probably the best BLOCK GRINDERS that were ever made. I have block grinders that are 1/4hp, 1/3hp, and 1/2hp and have taken them apart. The CAST IRON BLOCK (NO PRE **** in front) is the best most robust made out of all of them. I have pics comparing the windings and iron motor core of my cast iron 1/3hp to a Craftsman Commercial 1/2hp and the cast iron Block Grinder is just plain made BETTER. I've built prototype machines from the ground up so I'm not coming from nowhere when I say that. They both take 7"x1" wheels but the early cast iron just runs smoother. AGAIN.....I have pictures side by side. Don't know how to upload but will soon!
The windings are thicker ! The iron core is bigger ! The cast iron model even has CAST ALUMINUM cooling fans built in. In a 1956 Craftsman Power Tool catalog my 1/3hp grinder was being sold for $48.95. That's equivalent to $526.03 in 2022. How may grinders today cost $523 ?? That should be a wake up call right there ! The BEST cast iron block in 1956 was the 1/2hp model and that went for $69.95 !! That's equivalent to $751.70 in 2022 adjusted for inflation! So if anyone tells me that the CAST IRON BLOCK grinder was inferior to the later aluminum models all I can say is put your money where your mouth is. I'll match it in an escrow while I'm digging up all my old research, posting pics, and taking measurements for PROOF!
I'll also SWAP anyone a newer aluminum block in good shape for a cast iron if your in the Philadelphia area. Can be beat looking just be complete and working. That's how much I like the cast iron models.
How many times have you seen products go downhill in quality because the investors want to make more money ?? Just look at the Dayton grinders..... they have PLASTIC wheel housings now ! Probably made over seas somewhere instead of the U.S.A now to try to compete with Chinese JUNK prices. Yes there are GOOD Chinese products but most are good at making JUNK LOOK like good products but that's another topic.
I have to find where I read the Craftsman advertisement that stated the cast Iron model is capable of drawing TWICE the amperage that it's rated for before stalling. Simply put..... the HP was UNDER RATED (notice it was not "NEMA" rated then. ) and it was OVER BUILT.
Both the 1/3hp and the BEST 1/2hp model were both made to be used in Machine Shops and Factories also.
Let me sum this up by thanking all of you at the GarageJournal for enlightening me so some many things over the years. This site is one of a kind! The BEST ! I'm sorry to be long winded but I just couldn't stay silent when I saw this thread topic. I know there are many of you that know what I'm talking about already but that BOZO that started the PRE **** for ALL the cast iron models years ago is probably still spreading his horse manure. It's late now so I will try to learn how to upload the pics later.
Thank you for this thread and STAY SAFE!
P,S. My 1/3 hp has cast iron side covers too!
Caveman613
Member
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2022
- Messages
- 23
WOW...... that's beautiful. Top of the line U.S.A made piece of history! Just doesn't get any better than that!Great color choices!
Caveman613
Member
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2022
- Messages
- 23
I know this post is old but if you still follow..... your ABSOLUTELY correct! You ARE not alone. Those cast irons were the best of all the block grinders period. Don't let that "PRE" **** influence you.... I'm sure it won't since you have common sense. As the old saying goes....don't argue about how many teeth are in a horses mouth! GO LOOK! Simple as that!
wrenchguy
Well-known member
Keep it up "Professor Preblock", waiting for your pics.