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rattle_snake's random shop projects v0.1

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rattle_snake

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Todd,
Now is the time of year for those type of garage projects. I'll help with motivation:
Dude, go put that thing together!
 
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rattle_snake

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Whipped up a belt guard for the grinder out of scrap. Each sheet metal project comes out a little less ghetto than the last.
ZpwV6qxJBNuyz-dM3uHZXv0_tPvcKOxyjGts=w1152-h864-no.jpg
Not sure the bright red paint is a good match.
I'm not really into belt guards but it does keep the power cord from getting sucked into belt. Always took them off my bicycles.
vcO7vzBUYIe-QNsQiSnmV1DGjag05ounx0fig=w648-h864-no.jpg
 

OutlawDrifter

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Great...I haven't even started on finishing my bench and now I have another "want to build".

Glad the boating trip was a success. We are unseasonably warm here today, high will be in the mid-60s...I'm feeling "sick", haha, tough to be inside for sure.
 
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rattle_snake

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Well, logic would indicated that the time saved from having a belt grinder could be then used to 'start to finish' the workbench.
 
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rattle_snake

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The main issue I have found so far is that the Coote machine was designed backwards for wrong handed people. Most all non-symmetrical tools have the same issue.
There are only a few pieces that can't be swapped, but going to live with it for now.

I tried shoving a piece of 1/4x2 flat bar into the machine as hard as I could. The motor didn't slow down at all, just ate the bar. This is with 36 grit belt. So the 1.5 hp motor has plenty of torque, and could be pulley'd up another 10% to max RPM without concern. I would guess a 1 hp would have been sufficient, the 1.5 was only $10 more.
The platen is a good length and the 2 wheel design allows long material plus slack belt area. Seems more useful for my type of use than the 4 or 5 wheel designs, but I have not used one of those.
Overall really happy with machine, going to be a huge time saver. I bough a handful of different belts to try out including ceramic.

I also got a 1/2"x18" air belt grinder. It's a handy tool as well.
 

zmotorsports

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Justin, I too have had to deal with tools (and guns) all being designed and manufactured for the wrong handed population.:lol_hitti

I like the belt grinder, it turned out great.:thumbup:

I'm sorry if I have already asked this but would you remind me of what you have for a pan brake again? That belt guard turned out exceptional.

Thanks.
 
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rattle_snake

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Justin, I too have had to deal with tools (and guns) all being designed and manufactured for the wrong handed population.:lol_hitti

I like the belt grinder, it turned out great.:thumbup:

I'm sorry if I have already asked this but would you remind me of what you have for a pan brake again? That belt guard turned out exceptional.

Thanks.

Thanks Mike. I don't have a break of any kind, although an item on my 'list' for some time now. I just use the edge of my welding table, clamps and some appropriate sized pieces of steel. Also a sheet metal seamer hand tool, which is handy for corner tabs.
 

zmotorsports

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Thanks Mike. I don't have a break of any kind, although an item on my 'list' for some time now. I just use the edge of my welding table, clamps and some appropriate sized pieces of steel. Also a sheet metal seamer hand tool, which is handy for corner tabs.

Thanks Justin. Same boat as myself. I keep waffling on a 48" pan brake but can't justify the cost nor the space for the few times a year I'd use it. I do the same thing as far as bending. I clamp a straight edge to my fabrication table and coerce the sheet metal into shape.:lol_hitti
 

nsula_country

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I read the belt grinder thread. Came out nice. I have "wanted" one for a while, but don't really "need" one. Now you have me thinking that one "may save my life!"

Safety Yellow would look better on the belt guard...

CT
 
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rattle_snake

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Thanks Justin. Same boat as myself. I keep waffling on a 48" pan brake but can't justify the cost nor the space for the few times a year I'd use it. I do the same thing as far as bending. I clamp a straight edge to my fabrication table and coerce the sheet metal into shape.:lol_hitti

I've been looking to. Wish I had a neighbor that had one. One of my buddy's FIL has a sheet metal shop so if I have a big project I can go that route. Considering a die that can be used in a press, to bend thicker stuff up to 1/4".

I read the belt grinder thread. Came out nice. I have "wanted" one for a while, but don't really "need" one. Now you have me thinking that one "may save my life!"

Safety Yellow would look better on the belt guard...

CT

I suggest you try the 'may save my life' line on Mrs. nsula if it would help the situation. Holidays are right around the corner, sounds like a great gift idea!

Yellow.. hmm. I contemplated a fake patina finish to match the pipe, rusty drum and scale. To do it right I would need to put some dents and scratches on it, but it came out too nice. Maybe flat black. Or grey to match the grinder itself. Or paint the grinder red. Or blue.
:headscrat
 
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rattle_snake

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Made some brand 'art' for living room wall out of saguaro cactus skeleton I found out bird hunting
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Got some new couches to go with my home brew furniture. Wife commented on how everything was brown, so painted wall gray. Still need to build a new set of shelves...
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Monza Harry

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Got some new couches to go with my home brew furniture. Wife commented on how everything was brown, so painted wall gray.
Explain to her that there is nothing brown in here [the room], just that everything is a regionally corrected "Earth Tone" Or Santa Fe themed. Get her drunk first, she might buy it, maybe/maybe not. I think it looks great, but according to my wife I have no fashion sense/taste! Use what you can from that. Harry
 
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rattle_snake

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That looks nice Justin.

Diamond Z?

Diamond Z is brand from my father's mother's family ranch that was in north Dakota. Their name was Zdrahal, hence the 'Z'.

Explain to her that there is nothing brown in here [the room], just that everything is a regionally corrected "Earth Tone" Or Santa Fe themed. Get her drunk first, she might buy it, maybe/maybe not. I think it looks great, but according to my wife I have no fashion sense/taste! Use what you can from that. Harry

Hi Harry, I like your line of reasoning! Earth tones, margaritas.
:beer:
 
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rattle_snake

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Some progress on the truck. Working on chassis box/reinforcement for steering box.
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Got the replacement cam (other was bend among other things) installed and verified timing.
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Installed front cover, damper, oil pan and heads. Trying to get it sealed up so I can get it into chassis to fab motor mounts.
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vy4i-_6qsaLsSfirO2i5EXZfEt8Tw716AR2l74kDLYNF29vrmXuMlNZ4uT9ycJG8p2VaBTlbkOBZTHH8wo0t_y2kZd3024kiMFJ7S1Y6Wr43bAIOaNgYRnutYF_72ZjGOjUykgTdIt839skJWnWvSebCtbwuvntryKTKhhmy4ge_gTWROo7gYDqgJz1oYlnDzqQZvtWlSujgUOmf99EiIP1c81vCnuHpIA8UVNV2Kb-kFG2Mg4htvmSDILtIB6N85Hxa4z2BSBYVVK2mvSBtq2asvIoLKTPs0CZjJlvPOtZlhDmb3mvnpa7_P5oYNR3tI6Ie44tbf1H112J3a4O5QH0Ci8wSG2e8WCf25-65CgwBheKqvahHceLIU0edWsxaWYSGWpuntFp9O6pnAcfVnIxH0B9kEwVRtsFDMDpa5J6mp6d1d2rZ8O0EVEv1ezgapHLYJm44ZiJs-F23bSoRNyM9RtB-NnQQ2i6iI05Gv8rr1me1OgRVJ6ynxl_tdmIqu1_ei-ljceQ3V1v5wesaSW9UW6R_ziYdrJEtgQEz-FFI6FQh0ugXvdYS3KoChpOHCglEnaB7Uvy8e1_lVbJ4VfvNzhMwzxZ6HBgIwqngkFO4g_QTYsy95BwjcWmFb9hkf245bieSwYcA4NrH-NLrtM8h-6QW7Mjl-uzfDTzaH9DDooP1_Qj4zpqD6Shom-FlNbME8InE61iXjxl-fQuptga5Ph27W4HsTF-Uw_XJq5ruvKQ=w1152-h864-no
 

OutlawDrifter

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Was it an off the shelf cam? I can't remember?

Looks like you're making some good progress!
 
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rattle_snake

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Nice work on boxing in that frame where the steering box resides Justin. Looks top notch.:thumbup:

Thanks Mike. Changed my mind a few times in cardboard before going to steel. Going to have a lot of stress there. Might need to add a steering ram to turn the big rubber aired down in the rocks.

Was it an off the shelf cam? I can't remember?

Looks like you're making some good progress!

No a custom grind. The 1st one got damaged/bent in shipping, was totally unprotected in a really heavy box of other stuff. 3 of 5 journal were out of spec too big. Had those ground down, then found the bend. Shipped back to manufacture to 'straighten', but can back still to far out and would not spin free in block. I requested replacement, ball got dropped, took a few more weeks. Been a long process.... Started in April, took 7 months to get this far.

This is turning out badass!!!!! Great job on boxing in the steering box and shock towers.

Thanks. Trying to minimize weight added. Was going to box all around front x-mem but decided to only do front left for steering/track bar mount. Added some small gussets instead. Some more work is needed to accommodated motor mounts that will tie into frame as well.
 
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rattle_snake

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Set engine in chassis for motor mount fab. The AOH mod to the hoist was well worth the $!
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Re-shaped the engine side mount to reduce weight. The belt grinder makes jobs like this soooo quick and easy. Why didn't I get one long ago?
Post is 0.280 wall DOM.
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The engine is offset right 1.25" (from factory) so left mount is longer to accommodate.
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OutlawDrifter

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That looks good Justin.

I'll bet even in it's stripped down form that setup is HEAVY! I need to do the AOH mod also.
 

Monza Harry

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Thanks Mike. Changed my mind a few times in cardboard before going to steel. Going to have a lot of stress there. Might need to add a steering ram to turn the big rubber aired down in the rocks.



No a custom grind. The 1st one got damaged/bent in shipping, was totally unprotected in a really heavy box of other stuff. 3 of 5 journal were out of spec too big. Had those ground down, then found the bend. Shipped back to manufacture to 'straighten', but can back still to far out and would not spin free in block. I requested replacement, ball got dropped, took a few more weeks. Been a long process.... Started in April, took 7 months to get this far.



Thanks. Trying to minimize weight added. Was going to box all around front x-mem but decided to only do front left for steering/track bar mount. Added some small gussets instead. Some more work is needed to accommodated motor mounts that will tie into frame as well.
I'd like to weigh in on your steering box mod, this is good, but consider some tubing for the screws. Even some 0.030" wall tubing will add more strength than their weight might suggest. Have you ever tried to crush a piece? You can still easily add these from the box side of the frame. Yes gussets with some dimples will definitely add strength with minimal weight. Too bad on the cam. Harry
 
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rattle_snake

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I'd like to weigh in on your steering box mod, this is good, but consider some tubing for the screws. Even some 0.030" wall tubing will add more strength than their weight might suggest. Have you ever tried to crush a piece? You can still easily add these from the box side of the frame. Yes gussets with some dimples will definitely add strength with minimal weight. Too bad on the cam. Harry

Hi Harry,
The plan for the steering box mount includes sleeves for the reasons you mention. The location of the holes/sleeves isn't final, so they have not been made yet. I need to get the axle under the chassis and finalize the draglink and track bar angles to verify bumpsteer characteristics and clearance to one another (they are close). Then the vertical position can be confirmed.

The box also needs to be spaced out from frame for the steering shaft to clear the coilover tower. I came up with a overly complicated and time consuming way to achieve both using solid bar stock on the lathe that would be very difficult to move/modify.
That said I have some 0.50/0.75" tube I plan to make simple sleeves out of.

Anyhow, open to ideas and methods, thanks for stopping in.
 
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Ohmthis

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Justin, I’ve been reading along, but just too busy to comment. Wow, you are getting a lot done bud! The chassis work is looking really good too. Keep it up!
 
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rattle_snake

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Justin, I’ve been reading along, but just too busy to comment. Wow, you are getting a lot done bud! The chassis work is looking really good too. Keep it up!

Thanks. Long ways to go but moving forward.

Two of a kind here, ***** I got so many side projects to just tink out on my trucks.

Love your work.
Thanks. Having fun with this part of the project. Ran out of C25 last night.

Got the motor mounts done
B_fvdfXwAue7aiWF9Zgxyk_alIaplDUzzT2zH30wP-t4N2J3xvO4FpVVncI2SpfI8xUodmbzCAbYfB48hhVLf0axlubzuzq0S6hP71BWxbvLqv3-UWBzCu56Xbo3ILuAbAkEGlR5U96BMwrpBWqRCSE_5A88U0Egm5ASCh-4hYQUougFIK5HjPyVVJGQ7dZ4FrQh1AV9NQPq4NM-o84LiROOAGn8KjAFvH9bAClKq1EiBIXF9z7PSVUE8EvD5Alke4kCiif3cDkN3anONwoYXTHaKVFukX5Yi69MfOiAM6ctW7Wq2vQvZZLTDLXaegoAu1RlDnTvN8tTcmNCLisDoJiSx07T_YxGA01DKz05dt8CiMecF98g51tgD9ipGSoGpj1FEHzAh-js1R7sH0L7Zuqs_T-eG6VUODwO9pKufFVfOsCeVEqr8RwjRVaFhf8E4TJE5WhCSqJljAuSRj1ZVsw042i7OFAvfzSazmjLhWrAe9xW5c7fQYqFFR_YdtzxiUiryaudE4kMYJ_pgHIjFbhvuIr6UuGc-4dWPWRFeZf8VsrwTSbwVZ_sGddXgVDKuj1Vrih7fC3Tj4PBGP9rOKdnZzN-9ommBUnEjsSHkVNu4bn6zWCbF4YVxs212PY107lfvyR6QLymH12wxrZLqHk-MaQ4XE8NHmhzEQkIsDwUGgY6JzyBeZlMeqJBJixt34AbphYMHlSEWAX4AR5VNJGXtuBnbqPlP3nlyN6ia0SPlBA=w1152-h864-no


used the mockup bushings I made for positioning. They worked well.
vBTRrghAoeAna1s3nf0L161HFZ2VS5KdU6lWTxDWMfBEkWMDVgR67MBPqnrdKp4T75uXyU_A9EsXNB4zspipMZFR5bVh1aP78PmEOgp-207TlFNNeGJ0FfUqa6HAoY4ScWeA_HBCeVqIL9GEdbuDwKMP6Edw2zd0vVwntLLSMrcJ1W1FgfN56nuCEi6FXNHjtlQO4FIzg1sn5RytW9t4FQduZ1gE6BjTrdivhBXXfQBz1PjMI4d8cIINTk9BcX5XIlwx7rC9LiVT3Clwqj0UF_M_DM9j-OYdBbm3cnGzhRJPJji9kPjuddU21CeHs2Aa5ilSud7HmtTF0AJI93nVc0M5gLQ0g4_JkeCsp7fuZYu9KAu9cNYZECDMjtpI8Izb-0WDJVz6R8lLFzjPEwQuA5VLH4dJHCBIf5lrGjdvRtuPbLOIeqZuF9rxJTCgahX8Bb0dw7svSY5tkp3RF-Y76IE1d86SHFQSOqHOSl7wseTTn8RQhRnTEeqpbNYwwyuhktPvX--Oy8UDL4ldc2JeNTE2Ed_1teHHxKtu9NHo79Kp_GfnqJCq3spcMHTuLxsxAVUZ60RYOsds1a1hVbWeky_T0PSvVJcJF4rQbDeW5YzIQEt9TEyC3KEeNMz10kZI7_dDk9D4W2vZJpxHt544xT9VL4eX5vT1sWWKFO3pyVCeRTxT1PU6HVI_VSrEG4hPBwdlRuNmdxl-EEyXN2gaK2--BcW5QpYNPjSO75muhBCDsCQ=w1152-h864-no


Axle painted
30zZz_c6wEaiHzdRq_OjC603swmfD2aJnk5NZePLTErelCAJaWMlN-9W4Tn8bg2QNmK7m9JFpFaCZCTeeY-65H-3wj8DLqmZK8eWBTK82yRfRtNj0r3LvZ10m8CFnLmYDJWNPRk-bMFF_kvsHFYR8KR8y4Y-yfaHqrsj9Hw0rgi25Dgm3VzMQRzeScGETW8yMIWSK2zL9C0S1IsEk-4DBf1_RsdBkUC4BA8lKJCFWi7RdAd2Yi7Vsmhalmqmq4LiypPkE8RY42_wbzeS1BBvicLsTyakFJLwhZZWb7eq9THHn4z_yxqS5t570rSZGIAiF01Vo9GWZyb4Qq1MtnORMKzZvEBYB_lxh8V9EGzj4Gn2O9yG5tN4EC4ivGWKLZUrPetImvIX_NWXV9e45qQ15D-WbXTFryolhIteAObYaSeiyC1Gcj9_je3kL5_ilyCgDee--J4154PUcgGVKrMNfe0t04121croiZP_jkpHHWxGQoSl6ti-RTixijdnrUi6hkAYHULTaldWUpVs6ijL4tokLAN3N3Fu_R0njWN__8vjynA54FxHU0Ul8omJRYIaHjFOferzOhHnpa9x5FPqBexuCBNKhYKkAUOQYlr7uqTYtjv0DgUF5EiDpfuSFi1WZaL08rxdUNksSR4ULo3xVwYmZGl9L0fzs_7JFpmVHBK5pmbQCNhNepwU0uLsGHbSAPfXifjF_bVn9R8fPO7o8uv0yjAzoiz30SpaQGAgp3U4UDs=w1152-h864-no
 
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rattle_snake

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Working on the middle cross member. It has to provide rigidity in several planes for the radius arm mounts, support the transmission, and be removable. I went with rectangular tubing over bent round tube to match the rest of the frame so far.
The frame is boxed with 0.25 plate and ties the RA mount to the X-mem. The RA mounts are offset inboard for tire max clearance, so the X-mem also has to be to clear the arm heims.
lzRfb5tO1sGqcwiALRysYxRmpChi2J_pQhLc=w1148-h861-no.jpg

Since the frame bends at the mount point, I used a strip of 1" with a bend to match. Then ground down the ends to allow a flat contact surface to the 45* lower mount tab.
EW933_XvPaiA_ET_nraX5jVnV5i0dUpEYA3k=w1148-h861-no.jpg

I used my Evo chop to make nice miter cuts. The lower fasteners have captive nuts welded inside. I contemplated boxing the ends fully but it provides little benefit for the weight added.
NNag3DNVICthx7sDyFsynx09WdrCnOlBRpkM=w1148-h861-no.jpg

After some math and verification measurements, I was able to cut the big piece only once and it fit nicely. Trying to get everything within ~1/16" and 1* so everything fits well enough as the pieces come together.
OYrgC_MqZcWOXkL6PC5V2YZ_yjy2OdbiQgCs=w1148-h861-no.jpg

With trans at *nominal* height, I left 1.25" below front yolk. Plan to run a 1350 double cardan shaft. Can notch if needed later for full droop case.
g0ZJyCT8FduaMJ34ym1f3s-s5PZxGZShYWBw=w1148-h861-no.jpg

Fully welded on the bench
xzVWo1h7mdnLzMf82FvsZr4vBKqTmX_pO0UE=w1148-h861-no.jpg

X-mem is a tight fit getting in but all 8 bolts line up. The holes are not over-sized (right at 0.500) for the 1/2-13 bolts. The fact they fit perfectly even after welding is a miracle for me.
Next step is to fab the transmission mount, which will be adjustable front/rear and be shim-able up/down.
KWd-CCBYuSd8UDNblD28TTojKexBnUrnBvHM=w1148-h861-no.jpg
 

OutlawDrifter

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The went together awesome. Good work!

I hate welding upside down...yours looks much better than mine generally turn out.
 

zmotorsports

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Looks good Justin.

It's a bit too late now but for future work one thing I do when mitering tubing and welding together in a **** configuration on structural items is to drill a few holes in either half and insert a couple of plates across the joint. I also leave a bit of a gap between the two pieces to capture all three pieces when welding and then finish it off by welding in the holes to the plate behind with Rosette welds. This way you're not relying solely on a **** weld for strength.

I hope that makes sense. I sorted through some of my old pictures to see if I had one depicting what I'm talking about but I couldn't find one.
 

smokeysevin

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Houston
Looks good Justin.



It's a bit too late now but for future work one thing I do when mitering tubing and welding together in a **** configuration on structural items is to drill a few holes in either half and insert a couple of plates across the joint. I also leave a bit of a gap between the two pieces to capture all three pieces when welding and then finish it off by welding in the holes to the plate behind with Rosette welds. This way you're not relying solely on a **** weld for strength.



I hope that makes sense. I sorted through some of my old pictures to see if I had one depicting what I'm talking about but I couldn't find one.
That is the correct way to do miter joints per numerous structural manuals. It keeps the joint from stretching out when its loaded.

I will try and find the reference manual I have that shows it.

Basically you miter the tube like normal but between the two mitered tubes you put a flat plate. When you weld the 3 pieces together it keeps the joint rigid.

Sean

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
 
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rattle_snake

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The went together awesome. Good work!

I hate welding upside down...yours looks much better than mine generally turn out.

Marc, vertical and overhead put me out of my comfort zone, but I'm getting better at them because I'm forced to do it.

But, the disclaimer in post #1 says "Do not look directly at any of my welds."
:)

Looks good Justin.

It's a bit too late now but for future work one thing I do when mitering tubing and welding together in a **** configuration on structural items is to drill a few holes in either half and insert a couple of plates across the joint. I also leave a bit of a gap between the two pieces to capture all three pieces when welding and then finish it off by welding in the holes to the plate behind with Rosette welds. This way you're not relying solely on a **** weld for strength.

I hope that makes sense. I sorted through some of my old pictures to see if I had one depicting what I'm talking about but I couldn't find one.

That is the correct way to do miter joints per numerous structural manuals. It keeps the joint from stretching out when its loaded.

I will try and find the reference manual I have that shows it.

Basically you miter the tube like normal but between the two mitered tubes you put a flat plate. When you weld the 3 pieces together it keeps the joint rigid.

Sean

Sean and Mike,
Yes I think I understand the technique. Thanks for sharing I can use in the future. I'm always open to ideas and suggestions.

I did grind a bevel and use overkill material. I figured I could weld a fish plate on the outside over the joints if needed. Now is the time I guess....

Anyhow thanks for the feedback.
 
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Ohmthis

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Looks good Justin.

It's a bit too late now but for future work one thing I do when mitering tubing and welding together in a **** configuration on structural items is to drill a few holes in either half and insert a couple of plates across the joint. I also leave a bit of a gap between the two pieces to capture all three pieces when welding and then finish it off by welding in the holes to the plate behind with Rosette welds. This way you're not relying solely on a **** weld for strength.

I hope that makes sense. I sorted through some of my old pictures to see if I had one depicting what I'm talking about but I couldn't find one.


That is the correct way to do miter joints per numerous structural manuals. It keeps the joint from stretching out when its loaded.

I will try and find the reference manual I have that shows it.

Basically you miter the tube like normal but between the two mitered tubes you put a flat plate. When you weld the 3 pieces together it keeps the joint rigid.

Sean

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

Ok, let me get this one straight. I tried to google this and came up with nada. The plate is slipped into (as in plate is a male fitting and the tube is a female fitting) the tube to where the plate intersects both tubes? The weld (with a gap) will tie the tube to plate to tube? Then rosette welds on tube into the plate? How thick is the plate? I’ve never seen or even heard of this before. Only putting a smaller slug or tube inside a tube to give it strength when you lengthen it.
 

Bigblue&Goldie

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Ok, let me get this one straight. I tried to google this and came up with nada. The plate is slipped into (as in plate is a male fitting and the tube is a female fitting) the tube to where the plate intersects both tubes? The weld (with a gap) will tie the tube to plate to tube? Then rosette welds on tube into the plate? How thick is the plate? I’ve never seen or even heard of this before. Only putting a smaller slug or tube inside a tube to give it strength when you lengthen it.

Imagine a 45° miter with this tab in between the two pieces:

https://www.ruffstuffspecialties.co...stuff&Product_Code=R1790&Category_Code=BUMPER

Instead of just welding the two end pieces of the tube directly together, the tubes are essentially welded to this piece.
 

zmotorsports

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Messages
21,381
Location
Northern Utah
Ok, let me get this one straight. I tried to google this and came up with nada. The plate is slipped into (as in plate is a male fitting and the tube is a female fitting) the tube to where the plate intersects both tubes? The weld (with a gap) will tie the tube to plate to tube? Then rosette welds on tube into the plate? How thick is the plate? I’ve never seen or even heard of this before. Only putting a smaller slug or tube inside a tube to give it strength when you lengthen it.

I tried using Google for an image to post up but also came up with nothing.

I'll try to look in my NHRA chassis rulebook if I get time because that is where I first read about it and started using this procedure of internal sleeving. The biggest difference with NHRA is that the joint must be cut at a 60-degree angle and the internal sleeve much extend 1.5 times the diameter of the tubing to each side of the joint seam and utilize the same material thickness as the parent chassis tubing. The Rosette welds must also be welded in a fashion that joins the internal sleeve to the outer parent material YET the very center of the weld must NOT encroach into the middle. Basically the very center of the Rosette weld must allow complete visual of the internal sleeve so the weld must appear as though a lap joint joining the internal sleeve to the parent tube allowing the sleeve to remain visible. Also the Rosette welds must be made within 1/2" of the end of the internal sleeve to prove that the sleeve in fact extends out as far as required.

For round and square tubing this is sometimes easier because you can obtain and/or fine tune an internal sleeve from a smaller piece of tubing. However, with rectangular and even odd size tubing this becomes more problematic and so with rectangular tubing I will use plate on all four sides of the tubing and extend the splice joint in the same fashion as described above.

Again, hard to explain but if I had a picture it would be easy to see what I'm talking about.
 
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