rattle_snake's random shop projects v0.1

[rattle_snake]

Back to work on the TC adapter. Needs machining down the body to clear shift rail. Found a 1.25 boring bar which seemed about right.


one pass, slow.


still not a lot of room for linkage hardware.


Instead of 2nd pass I milled a flat in shifter arm and welded a captive nut at reduced height.


The mods needed to the TC side.
-shifter rail
-idler nut
-bearing retainer and bolts.
-shifter linkage clearance in rear/low


There are 2 clocking options, down (can't use) or up. Up puts front output flange up 1". Clearance to crossmember was very tight, 1/4" after some grinding to get TC down from hitting cab. So this is good and can drop trans/TC mount down and have more room in both places. Although I'm sure this will lead to more modifications.

 

[zmotorsports]

Nice job machining the recesses and altering the fastener hardware on the linkage Justin. Sometimes there isn't one answer, rather than a combination of several to overcome a clearance issue. Excellent work.

 

[ntsqd]

When it comes to aftermarket parts, "Universal fit" doesn't. Tidy job of making it work!

Warms my heart to see someone else using companion flanges instead of yokes.

 

[rattle_snake]

Nice job machining the recesses and altering the fastener hardware on the linkage Justin. Sometimes there isn't one answer, rather than a combination of several to overcome a clearance issue. Excellent work.

Thanks Mike.
But to be honest I'm still a newb/hack with a mill and machining in general. I have learned a lot since getting use of mill/lathe over last 6 years but also learned how much I don't know. So I plow on and teach myself how or how not to do stuff. This mill does OK on Aluminum but ***** on steel. Tooling needs some sharpening, TLC. I finally organized now that I know what the hell it all is. Was all mixed up with lathe tooling although some can be used on either.
I finally moved the vice out of the way and did a better fixturing job. May leave on one side and re-true to table.

On this job my 1st round was rushed, ugly and sad so at the end when it all fit I couldn't accept the quality although it won't be seen and functions the same. So I re-tooled and re-cut a few things to bring it up to a B-. Far from what you achieve on your machine. I appreciate you sharing your work I learn a lot from it.

When it comes to aftermarket parts, "Universal fit" doesn't. Tidy job of making it work!

Warms my heart to see someone else using companion flanges instead of yokes.

I have yet to find a complete 6R80 4x4 project on the interwebs so I guess I'm off the path here. and a NP205 at that.

I don't think there is a 1350 double cardan yoke. 1310/1330 yes.
Flange adds length but allow u-joint caps to sit in machined hole instead of a strap.

 

[zmotorsports]

Thanks Mike.
But to be honest I'm still a newb/hack with a mill and machining in general. I have learned a lot since getting use of mill/lathe over last 6 years but also learned how much I don't know. So I plow on and teach myself how or how not to do stuff. This mill does OK on Aluminum but ***** on steel. Tooling needs some sharpening, TLC. I finally organized now that I know what the hell it all is. Was all mixed up with lathe tooling although some can be used on either.
I finally moved the vice out of the way and did a better fixturing job. May leave on one side and re-true to table.

On this job my 1st round was rushed, ugly and sad so at the end when it all fit I couldn't accept the quality although it won't be seen and functions the same. So I re-tooled and re-cut a few things to bring it up to a B-. Far from what you achieve on your machine. I appreciate you sharing your work I learn a lot from it.

I'm far from a seasoned machinist Justin, but like you I am self taught and unfortunately have learned much by trial and error.

I have mentioned it before that I am not a machinist, but rather a mechanic who has learned how to do some machining. I'm quite envious of those tool & die guys who make it look easy.

Thanks for your comments as they are much appreciated.

 

[Monza Harry]

. I'm quite envious of those tool & die guys who make it look easy.

There is a degree of showmanship there believe you me! Closing in on 40 years of metal mangling for me and I still find things I have to "fake-it" through as there is no "every thing there is to know" guys out there, they/we might know lots, but everything is a long way away! And we learned all of this one [or more] mistake(s) at a time. The only person that doesn't make mistakes isn't doing anything, and that is a mistake onto itself. Have fun and we all keep learning if we try even a little as we (mostly) all keep sharing. Than for sharing! Harry

 

[ntsqd]

I worked for a retired Tool & Die machinist for several summers. I think that might qualify me to consider myself a hack.

That boss once commented to me that the difference between amateurs and professionals is that both know where the mistakes are, but only the amateur points them out.

 

[rattle_snake]

Puttering along with a few aspects of 72 Ford project. Built and engine cradle to help mock-up the drivetrain. I built it in place with some scraps metal I can't seem to find a use for. Then put the engine on a typical stand for re-seal job.


Cradle leaves bell housing available to put the trans adapter on. Bolts to mounts and supports rear from some manufacturing points

 

[rattle_snake]

While engine is out it is a good time to address the tight clearances of the engine to crossmember. When moving engine down and back for A/C system I had to go as far as I could. Left just 1/4" or less, which is not enough to drop pan to pull front cover (for cam or whatever). So I cut some minimal reliefs in crossmember.


For the rear notch I use a piece of 1-1/4"angle, as it was the only 3/16 x 1-1/4 material I had. The other side of the angle adds meat to the plane that needs it (Z/Y). So it should be stronger than before and/or I added stress points.

 

[rattle_snake]

Wrapped up the transfer case. The PTO cover had slight leak. Cleaned up case to fresh bare metal and hammered the cover bolt holes back to flat. Considered drilling more holes for additional bolts, but ended up just making a 'stiffener' to spread load at lowest bolt that is at fluid level. Found some SS hex plugs to replace the plain square steel ones. Still need to devise a plan for the shifter.

 

[rattle_snake]

On to the reseal job. Pulled oil pan to replace the rubber one piece gasket. I had originally installed it dry. Did a pressure test of coolant system originally, which failed, so had to pull front cover and drop pan to do so. Assume it didn't go back together well enough, likely already contaminated with oil. It was definitely leaking at right rear and left front areas. Engine has 3200 miles and is very clean inside. Pan had no metal or debris in it. Ran a tap down all the pan bolt hole and cleaned them out with solvent


Installed a new Ford racing gasket and used minimal RTV (right stuff) on both sides. This pan, rails and gasket are for late model pickup, so have to hog out the 4 corner bolts to 5/16. step drill works well to not rip the steel inserts out. Cleaned up the oily hardware and put a tiny dap of anti seize on.


Next the valve covers. Both sides were leaking. Rubber gaskets glued to cover side. When I had to pull drinker's side head I worked the cover rail to bare metal and was able to get a half decent seal. So touched it up and worked imperfections out of the other side, to bare clean metal. Checked for loose push rods. OEM bolt down rockers so no need to adjust.


Installed new Fel-pro rubber gaskets with tabs for the stock valve covers. RTV both sides, as no need to remove for valve lash adjustment.
Cleaned up the exhaust surfaces and touched up paint on the exhaust ports. It will burn back off..
Reinstalled the coolant drain plugs with some thread sealer. Pulled engine mounts to repaint, as the VHT engine paint is NOT oil resistant until it is heat cycled. I had used it on many things like steering and link bars. All look like **** and most things are repainted Duplicolor cast iron. lubed the mount bushing with silicon and reinstalled.

 

[ntsqd]

On the PTO cover, did you know that this sort of thing existed? Not like the t/c is going to get smoking hot, but I figured that I'd toss that out there.

Trans-Cool NV4500/NV5600 Manual Transmission Cooler

The TRANS-COOL fin cooling system is uniquely designed to transmit heat from the inner fins to the outer fins, thus dissipating heat from the Dodge Turbo Diesel manual transmission.

www.genosgarage.com

 

[rattle_snake]

Interesting. Makes sense that there are some standard PTO bolt patterns. That cooler with rigid casting would certainly be better. I was tempted to cut a full flange on the CNC plasma.

 

[ntsqd]

Stumbled onto those when I was planning the NV4500 swap in my '70 EB Pick-up. 4500's do tend to run warm and it seemed like a good idea. And then the drive-shaft and exhaust clearances both voted no.

The PTO 'port' is a standard. What isn't a std are the tooth count and pitch of the gear to be mated with, and it's location within the opening. Those tend to be very application specific. Makes the PTO unit itself unique to the particular application. There, we've hit the outer limit of my knowledge on that topic....

 

[rattle_snake]

Moved the engine back to the stand to start test fit of adapter plates.
Looking ****.


Converter spacer is a big heavy hunk of aluminum.


Front end is almost at limit straps with engine weight out/

 

[OutlawDrifter]

Better go forced induction to offset that chunk of aluminum!

 

[rattle_snake]

Hard to argue with that logic Marc.

13# chunk

 

[rattle_snake]

Spiffed up my steering shaft while truck is apart. Multiple brake fluid leaks did a number on the high temp paint that never cured.


Cleaned, prepped and painted with Dupli engine paint that should hold up better.

 

[Ohmthis]

Justin, did you repaint the headers too? I didn’t read you say that. They look great either way, but I’d be more impressed if they had not been repainted. Thanks for bringing us along.

 

[rattle_snake]

Yes I repainted the headers and collector extensions. VHT flameproof paint in aluminum color. Paint will degrade over time. New gaskets on both ends.

 

[rattle_snake]

Finished out modifications to the core support to allow it to be removed with A/C system intact. Now condenser can be removed from core support with hoses attached. To do so a channel needed to be hacked from existing hose holes to the exterior. So sawzall it is.
The OEM A/C system had a big hole cut for both hoses and used a metal/rubber gasket. With current condenser another slot was added. Cut all that out to start fresh.


Welded in a patch panel


In order to waste a bunch of time I made a dimple die to recess the 5/16-18 nutzerts. The factor did this on all captive nuts and body clips on the core support. Spread the contact are on entire face instead of just the fastener.
Cut a slice of 1" round stock and popped it in the lathe to carve out a recess and drill a concentric hole.


Made some changes to die as I went. bigger bolt, solid upper die, chamfered edges more to form not cut.


Formed the outer patch with a fold to capture the pinch weld.


Used OEM fasteners to make it fit in as best it can


And another patch panel on the back side to finish off and add rigidity.


Cut out a new 'L' shaped opening for both hoses.


Added a small piece to fill in the gap at the top and give the finished cutout consistent radii.

 

[OutlawDrifter]

Nice execution Justin, that looks clean!

 

[zmotorsports]

I agree with Marc, very clean execution Justin.

 

[ntsqd]

Those recessed nuserts are cool! Now I need to make a suite of nutsert dimple dies....

 

[rattle_snake]

Nice execution Justin, that looks clean!

I agree with Marc, very clean execution Justin.

Thanks guys. Having fun turd polishing things I rushed the first time. Many little changes that will make thing quicker and easier to work on.

Those recessed nuserts are cool! Now I need to make a suite of nutsert dimple dies....

Glad I could be of help you our with identifying more projects.

 

[Mr.zippy]

That looks real good! Much respect for your skills. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Ohmthis]

Justin, that mod looks great. I’d say most people wouldn’t even notice it’s not factory. Care to show both sides of the nutsert die? We have a drill powered setting tool at work. I have used a bolt with a lock washer bent the wrong way. It works for a few nutserts, but you have to rebend the lock washer every time.

 

[rattle_snake]

The die set is just for making a dimple. back is flat, nut for the bolt.
I use a nutsert press/tool to install the nutsert themselves.

 

[larry4406]

That dimple die to recess the nutsert is slick.

 

[Ohmthis]

The die set is just for making a dimple. back is flat, nut for the bolt.
I use a nutsert press/tool to install the nutsert themselves.

Got it! Thanks for that.

 

[rattle_snake]

Trans delivered


Dimensions for 6R I found were correct. Total length is 0.25" longer than C6. No need to mod driveshafts. Hopefully don't have to move trans cross member, just move mount from front to back.

 

[rattle_snake]

Popped the adapter on and it appears the 205 front output drive flange and double cardan 1350 will clear. The C6 pan is short but 14" wide hence the long adapter. 6R pan is long and narrower, 12".
The output shaft of the C6 is longer and has full spline engagement in the 205. 6R has shorter splines and less stick-out from face, so will have less contact. Measurements indicate that most of the 6R spline length will be used.


The 6R80 is said to handle big power stock, as can a C6. Both have a 1" input shaft. The 6R shaft has a race on the end I assume for a support bearing in the torque converter.


The 6R torque converter is smaller diameter but noticeably heavier. Assume the dual lock up clutches.

 

[zmotorsports]

I actually prefer the shorter tailhousings Justin as they don't allow as much leverage on the extension housing and the forces of that heavy transfer case hanging off the back of it will be less likely to cause issues. Just out of curiosity, how many miles were on the used 6R80 transmission?

 

[rattle_snake]

That dimple die to recess the nutsert is slick.

Thanks Larry. I always need more tools. This site doesn't help.

I actually prefer the shorter tailhousings Justin as they don't allow as much leverage on the extension housing and the forces of that heavy transfer case hanging off the back of it will be less likely to cause issues. Just out of curiosity, how many miles were on the used 6R80 transmission?

That is a good point Mike. The mount on the adapter is about 6" further back and will reduce leverage significantly. NP205 is not light at 140 lbs.
Could have gone with the matching F150 BW44xx that is much lighter, but uses slip yolk on rear output and a strange 6 bolt flange on the front. Tail is long and face is offset so would need both driveshafts modified.

The trans has 86k. It is from a 2013 F150 5.0 4x4. There were a few units that has 50-60k but price was significantly higher. $1280 delivered, Ebay. Many for sale have 1xxk or 2xxk, even some with 300k+ so it should last plenty long for me.

 

[zmotorsports]

That's not a bad mileage for that ****** at all Justin. I'm sure you'll do a full service before putting into use and that trans should last a lot of miles yet with just routine service intervals.

 

[WoodsTruck]

This guy runs big power in front of his 6R80. He might be a resource if you run into a jam.

Chopped, slammed, bagged, tubbed, lowered floors, 418 w/blower, 6r80, 1/2 cab, Bronco Hot Rod

Assembled (less a few of the bolts) w/ the fwd plate and the 'Z' plate: Exploded view: The FJ60 bushings don't have any steel shells or sleeves, they're just rubber. If they have a downside it's that the dimensions are all metric. A single pair of bushings in the center would work better at...

classicbroncos.com

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

The one in my F-150 has held up great to many forward and reverse (my wife's favorite) burnouts. Sitting at 107k mi with no maintenance.

 

[ntsqd]

This guy runs big power in front of his 6R80. He might be a resource if you run into a jam.

Chopped, slammed, bagged, tubbed, lowered floors, 418 w/blower, 6r80, 1/2 cab, Bronco Hot Rod

Assembled (less a few of the bolts) w/ the fwd plate and the 'Z' plate: Exploded view: The FJ60 bushings don't have any steel shells or sleeves, they're just rubber. If they have a downside it's that the dimensions are all metric. A single pair of bushings in the center would work better at...

classicbroncos.com

Shortie is still being built. Nvrstk's other EB has a monster engine in it (except for right now), but I don't recall what trans he's currently using in that truck. He's had so many over the years. Looked up that build thread: https://classicbroncos.com/forums/t...5-lift-5-wb-stretch-2-floor-lower-p-s.278607/ it seems he's running the same in it currently.
Edited to add that I've known him via an old EB list (Broncofix) since about '97 or so.

 

[Bears Fan]

Justin, had to go back a few pages to get caught up on all the activity going on in your garage, great job on all the mods on the 72

Love all the postings on your 450, but then again I'm an old motocross rider myself, "you can never get rid of that itch".

 

[rattle_snake]

The bronco has a 418 small block stroker so a bit different, and an Atlas I believe.

Thanks Tony. Just put a new battery in the 450X in prep for the Glamis dune trip next week. Magic button is even more handy in the situations I get myself into in the sand. Stall at horrible time, or on a steep side slope. Saved my *** a few times now.