Running Wire from outside (sub-Panel) mounted to stucco to inside garage, how to do it by code?

[cb248]

Hi,

I have a sub panel outside the house on the exterior outside the garage, house is a modern stucco exterior in Cali. I want to punch through the back of the panel and run some wires for an EV charger to the garage inside which has drywall interior.

1. When I pop out the cover in the panel what do i need to use behind the panel to seal it since it is flush against the wall? I can't use a water tight conduit fitting it won't fit.
2. Depends on your response to question 1. Let's assume I find some fitting that sits flush, between the wall I assume I need to run flex conduit and can't have exposed wires obviously as these will be thicker gauge wires correct?

Lastly I will be pulling those wires through conduit once I get them in the garage safely and per code hopefully. But I need to figure out this first part and the rest is easy.

 

[billconner]

I would probably exit the bottom, form a drip loop, and poke through with flashing over it. I think if exiting box against wall, flash over top of box.

 

[cb248]

how about the interior, flex conduit is required i assume but how to get it in the panel with a fitting?

 

[teamextreme]

Why won't a RT fitting fit on the rear? If you're coming into the back with any type of cable/conduit/fitting then a RT fitting should also fit. It will require augering out a bunch of stucco for clearance, which will be a PITA, but that will have to be done no matter how you enter the back of the panel. Otherwise, coming out the bottom into an LB to gain entrance into the wall is the other option.

 

[cb248]

I see what you are saying, make the hole big enough in the rear to fit the RT. I was trying to avoid having to completely remove the sub panel from the wall to do this. It seems going through the bottom might be the easier way i guess but not look at clean. I don't suppose my way of avoiding have to remove the panel is possible. If i were to put silicone to seal the conduit coming out the hole right into the panel that would not be to code and not the proper way to do it.

 

[cb248]

Here is what i have now, i want to cap where i have the 90 conduit coming from the bottom and just drill right back through one of the punch out holes. But sealing is my issue and removing the panel is not a quick job or something i desire by any means.

 

[sparky 1971]

This is what I have done. Drill as close to center as possible through one of the factory 3/4 knockouts with a long 1/4" bit. Go all the way through the wall into the garage. Then, with a holesaw large enough for the outside diameter of the connector to fit in, drill from the inside out, stopping when you get to the panel, but don't go through it. Then, with a long screwdriver, you can punch out the rest of the knockout from the back side. Put a connector on a short piece of conduit, install through the back then put the locknut on. Just make damned sure you drill the pilot hole straight or you will be reaming out the hole through the wall. I've never done it through stucco, but the idea remains the same, you will probably destroy the holesaw though.

 

[cb248]

Thanks for the tip, never considered this method. So in the wall between the outside panel and drywall I have to run flex or some conduit correct, you can't have the Romex by itself 8/2 because that is against code i assume?

 

[sparky 1971]

Thanks for the tip, never considered this method. So in the wall between the outside panel and drywall I have to run flex or some conduit correct, you can't have the Romex by itself 8/2 because that is against code i assume?

You could run romex, but that's going to have to be a big hole due to the width of the clamp and lenght of the screws on the romex connector. You'd be better off using a piece of 3/4" PVC and male adapter inside and out and shoving the romex through that.

 

[cb248]

thanks, i'll do just that, how about sealing where the conduit sticks through the stucco, i was thinking RTV silicone, not sure if that is to code but it will work.

 

[sparky 1971]

After you're sure everything is going to fit just right, put silicone all around the end of the connector and pipe, not the threads. then send it through to the panel. Don't take the conduit back out unless you absolutely have to, you will get the silicone all over everything.

 

[cb248]

copy, that is what i was thinking too. okay i think based on your feedback that is the path i'm going to take. I plan to run 8/2 x two for each EVSE through hopefully a single hole than split that into two different conduit runs on each side of the garage.

 

[sparky 1971]

copy, that is what i was thinking too. okay i think based on your feedback that is the path i'm going to take. I plan to run 8/2 x two for each EVSE through hopefully a single hole than split that into two different conduit runs on each side of the garage.

You better use 1". do it as suggested, but instead of knocking the rest of the knockout out from the inside, use a 1-3/8" holesaw or vari-bit to make the 1" knockout in the panel. I don't know what size holesaw it will take to fit the connector through the wall. Go to the box store, get a connector and take it over to the holesaws to find that out. Or, you could buy a short roll of #8 THHN/THWN and green #10 and use 3/4. They sell 100 foot rolls around here.

 

[cb248]

When you say connector coming from the backside you mean just a regular rain tight connector where the threads pop out the panel and i put the lock nut and seal on, which is why you are saying the holesaw has to be 1-3/8" correct? I was thinking of using the vari-bit but the biggest challenge will be now i need to get a stucco bit that big which means trip to hardware store

 

[sparky 1971]

When you say connector coming from the backside you mean just a regular rain tight connector where the threads pop out the panel and i put the lock nut and seal on, which is why you are saying the holesaw has to be 1-3/8" correct? I was thinking of using the vari-bit but the biggest challenge will be now i need to get a stucco bit that big which means trip to hardware store

The connector is the piece that has the threads. You have a factory knockout that will accept 3/4" conduit (1-1/8" hole). A 1" KO is a 1-3/8" hole. There are varibits that go to 1-3/8, but they are expensive. This is just a guess, but I bet it will take a 1-1/2", maybe even up to a 1-3/4" hole through the wall for the O.D. of the connector to fit through if you use 1".

 

[cb248]

Got it, so if i use something like this, the conduit would already be connected to this and from the garage side i put this through so the threads are popping out the KO in the panel and I would just tighten the nut from inside the panel and use RTV around the stucco hole. Does this make sense or am I completely off base? thanks

Halex 3/4 in. Liquid Tight Connector Nylon Multipiece (10-Pack) 76207B

Featured product is a 3/4 In. Liquid Tight Connector. It is used to connect type B non-metallic conduit to a weatherproof outlet box, pool/spa equipment motor, central air conditioning unit or various

www.homedepot.com

 

[cb248]

I'm going to run essentially 6 conductors 8AWG so per this chart you think i should go with 1" conduit instead of 3/4" for some margin?

How to size conduit for cable | Global Manufacturer & Distributor of Component Solutions — Essentra Components

Find out about conduit materials, types of insulated conductors and how to calculate conduit fill including a helpful conduit cable fill chart.

www.essentracomponents.com

 

[sparky 1971]

That's for liquid tight flex. I'd use 3/4" PVC and #8 THHN/THWN, not romex. The ground only has to be a #10 and you can use one ground for both circuits. The 1" conduit would be if you use two 8/2 romex cables. I don't see the circuit size in your post, but if you use 8/2 romex you are limited to 40 amps. THHN/THWN Is good for 50 amps.

I can't get my copy/paste to work. Put 3/4 electrical male terminal adapter into the Home Depot search bar.

 

[cb248]

I'm not planning to charge more than 15-16A per car. I already have the romex on order so too late to back out now. I was planning to run 2 separate circuits with its own run. So i need to run 1" than based on what you said. Once i bring those into a metal J box in the garage my plan was to run two branches of conduit one on each side of the garage but I was wondering what your thoughts are on running the 8/2 romex in 1/2 EMT instead of 3/4". Based on the table it appears to support 8/2 in 1/2" EMT with 3 conductors? your thoughts?

 

[sparky 1971]

I'm not planning to charge more than 15-16A per car. I already have the romex on order so too late to back out now. I was planning to run 2 separate circuits with its own run. So i need to run 1" than based on what you said. Once i bring those into a metal J box in the garage my plan was to run two branches of conduit one on each side of the garage but I was wondering what your thoughts are on running the 8/2 romex in 1/2 EMT instead of 3/4". Based on the table it appears to support 8/2 in 1/2" EMT with 3 conductors? your thoughts?

You're not going to get an 8/2 in a 1/2" conduit because the romex is flat and wide. It will be a pita to get it in a 3/4" if it's very far and/or has much as far as bends go. Use a 1" to get from the panel to the 1st box, then use a minimum of 3/4" to go either direction.

 

[cb248]

Maybe i should clarify, apologies, the brand is Romex but it's not the flat romex. It is a 3 conductor romex, does this change things in your opinion?

 

[sparky 1971]

There is even less chance of getting that through a 1/2". That should have four conductors. There is a bare #10 ground wire hiding in there. I'm not positive you will be able to get two of those through a 1".

 

[cb248]

The guy i bought it from assured me there isn't a 4th conductor which is a surprise to me b/c I assume 8/3 means 4 just like you.

I just looked at the charger and it requires either 3/4" or 1" emt so looks like I'm going to stick with 3/4" from the J box in the garage to each side. You have me concerned if you don't think it will fit in a 1" EMT from the panel to the j-box in the garage.

 

[cb248]

I have a concern no matter what off the shelf connector i find at lowes and home depot it wont work. I found this, which if i can get the measurements might work. I'm thinking again stick the EMT on the end of this and push it through the 1-1/2 hole i'm going to make in the stucco, the stucco will likely be ~1/2" thick, so i need the end to stick out through the stucco and into the panel so i an put a nut on the end of it. Does that seem too ambitious? I don't know if there is longer connectors i can use possibly.

Bridgeport

BETTER WAYS TO GET THE JOB DONE RESOURCES Related products Bridgeport Compliance Documents ASK US ABOUT BRIDGEPORT

www.bptfittings.com

 

[cb248]

At this point, i'm thinking to myself, the juice might not be worth the squeeze trying to do everything in the panel. I have the existing 1" 90 already, i should just cut a hole in the stucco under the hole and call it a day. Might not be the cleanest look but i can seal it and it should be less troublesome. Thoughts?

 

[cb248]

I'm starting to doubt what the guy told me as well. I feel like there is a ground hiding in there. if that is the case i think the diameter is about 0.56 from similar cables. So like you said in 1" it is going to be extremely tight. i can remove the outer jacket and that should help some I think and remove the ground from the shorter run which is less than 8ft. the other longer run across the garage will keep it in tact.

 

[cb248]

I just realized, i'm going to run into the same problem when i mount the charger against the stucco on the outside of the garage, is there a way to have the conduit stick through the charger base and seal it without making the hole the conduit is coming out of any bigger? Like a flush mounted water tight fitting? does such a thing exist?

 

[mike93lx]

Romex can't be outdoors at all, regardless of conduit. So you can go into the back of the panel, but running it from below is a violation.

There is definitely a ground conductor in there.. 8/3 WG makes that clear. 3 insulated contuctors and WG means with ground

 

[mike93lx]

Buying that 8/3 wasn't a great move honestly.

I think I would have put a small sub inside, directly opposite the exterior sub. Feed over some #6 or #4 THWN then tie the two chargers to that. Clean and much simpler . Running big romex in conduit is less than fun

 

[cb248]

Too late to go back on the cable, i really have no desire to run another sub in the garage, the hassle is still the same for the remainder.

The question i have is how do I get a flush rear seal/connector where I don't have to make the hole any bigger than the OD" of the 3/4" emt? does something like that exist for example the charger is mounted right to the stucco.

 

[cb248]

I don't want to do what this guy did with a bunch of silicone. Is there not a connector to do a flush water tight seal?

 

[mike93lx]

Are you running the romex inside the interior walls to get to the two chargers?

What about entering a junction box on the interior then two short pieces of conduit, one left and one right, to connect the chargers?

 

[cb248]

Hi Mike, you are right, i need to go back to the original idea of going from the panel to the rear if Romex can't be run on the exterior, you can see my previous install is exterior and i used the correct wires.

The issue still remains about getting a flush wall water tight connection.

Yes the romex will be run in conduit inside the garage, hidden out of sight as much as possible, but the chargers will be on the exterior of the garage, one on one side and the other 20 feet away on the other side, so all the conduit and wiring will be inside the garage and my hope was to have a flush install. HOA is a-holes out here and plus it looks cleaner not having a j-box on the exterior and doing the easy thing of running the conduit from the j-box on the exterior to the bottom of the charging base.

There has to be a clean way of doing this to code with a flush look instead of what this guy did with Silicone. Is there a liquid tight flush wall connector???

thanks

 

[sparky 1971]

So you are wanting to go from the panel, through the garage wall, then around the interior garage walls and back outside to the chargers? If that's the case you really, really need to abandon the idea of using the wire you already bought and use THHN/THWN. In a previous post you stated that the chargers are 12-16 amps. You could do that with 20 amp circuits using #12. You would need two hots for each circuit, but one ground for both would suffice and you could do the whole thing with 1/2" conduit, including going into the panel, but I would use 3/4" for that. If you really want to use #8 with a 40 amp circuit, still use THHN, but you will need a #10 ground and have to use 3/4" I didn't look at the link you posted about conduit sizing, but 1/2" conduit isn't going to work. As far as sealing the hole for the chargers, you still need to drill a hole the same O.D. as the connector, but you can seal the hole on the outside before the charger box gets mounted. With the connector threads sticking out of the wall, put silicone around it. Then put another ring of silicone around that. When you mount the box, it will squish all the sealant down.

EDIT: If you use EMT, when going through the wall(s), make sure to use compression connectors, not set screw. The hole has to be larger in order to accommodate the set screw, but the connector will not be centered in hole. I suggested PVC when I thought it was just a matter of getting through the wall from the panel.

 

[sparky 1971]

Too late to go back on the cable, i really have no desire to run another sub in the garage, the hassle is still the same for the remainder.
The question i have is how do I get a flush rear seal/connector where I don't have to make the hole any bigger than the OD" of the 3/4" emt? does something like that exist for example the charger is mounted right to the stucco.

You might be able to use a galvanized rigid conduit ******. The end of the pipe is threaded for lock nuts, You might have to chip out a little bit of stucco for the locknut on the back side of the charger box in order for it to sit flush. Unless you can get the correct length ****** to go through the wall, your best bet on the inside is going to be a no thread connector to get into that box or LB. That will take a little larger hole on the inside, but it only has to be to the depth required to get the connector into the wall.

 

[mike93lx]

Too late to go back on the cable

Sell it and buy the right stuff. It's worth it.

 

[cb248]

To be clear I plan to charge at 16a but there could be times it could be higher. I'm using the 8awg to support 40A charger use and the 8awg will support the NEC 80% ampacity requirement. I can't share the circuit even if I wanted to. There is a bug is the EV software where it causes all kinds of issues when it detects a pilot Amperage change. Hence the two independent chargers.

@sparky 1971, it sounds like you are saying there is no way to avoid making a bigger hole in the stucco to accommodate the fitting. It is less of a problem b/c i can drill larger holes where I mount the EV charger base. But going back to the panel that will not be easy b/c i can't remove the panel.

I see what you are saying about the rigid conduit ******, the length is actually i'm estimating is about 2 feet from the inside of the garage to the outside where the EV charger base is, i would need to find a conduit ****** that long threaded on both ends and would have to chop it off unless i get lucky. I think that is a good idea and would be the most flush way of doing it. Might employ the same tactic on the panel too but i would not be able to get a nut behind it, only in the panel and using the wall as my rear nut technically and i would seal with RTV.

@Mike
At this point i'm stuck with the wire, i can remove the ground conductor if it is in the bundle, since it is all indoor it should be compliant. My biggest concern is the sealing and with the conduit ****** idea it sounds like i have a path forward.

I have to be honest i'm surprised there is no flush wall type fitting. I saw some pipetite seal fittings but they are for larger pipes that do just that for plumbing but nothing for electrical. I guess RTV it is.

 

[mike93lx]

At this point i'm stuck with the wire, i can remove the ground conductor if it is in the bundle, since it is all indoor it should be compliant

Nope. The wires need to stay in the jacket and you need a ground wire anyway

 

[cb248]

I can keep it in the jacket if it is against code to remove it, but my plan is to use the white wire as the ground if there is only 3 conductors, otherwise I will use the bare copper to keep it to code. I don't like panels where wrong colors are used.

How about other options for flush wall fittings? Have you seen anything?

 

[mike93lx]

I can keep it in the jacket if it is against code to remove it, but my plan is to use the white wire as the ground if there is only 3 conductors, otherwise I will use the bare copper to keep it to code. I don't like panels where wrong colors are used.

How about other options for flush wall fittings? Have you seen anything?

You can't use the white for ground. Just don't connect the white and use the bare for ground.


250.119 Identification of Equipment Grounding Conductors. Unless required elsewhere in this Code, equipment grounding conductors shall be permitted to be bare, covered, or insulated. Individually covered or insulated equipment grounding conductors shall have a continuous outer finish that is either green or green with one or more yellow stripes except as permitted in this section. Conductors with insulation or individual covering that is green, green with one or more yellow stripes, or otherwise identified as permitted by this section shall not be used for ungrounded or grounded circuit conductors.


No idea on a fitting. I'd spend some time looking at manufacturer catalogs to see if you can find it