rust removal

[elidas]

I have a Parker No.8 vise that was left outside for years and is now froze. I bought a bunch of vinegar on clearance at HD for $.90 a gallon. I'm thinking putting the vise in a pail covered in vinegar and setting aside for a month or two. Any chance of this damaging the vise, freeing up the vise? I see some people also put salt in the vinegar. Is this recommended?

 

[steaks&anvils]

I have a Parker No.8 vise that was left outside for years and is now froze. I bought a bunch of vinegar on clearance at HD for $.90 a gallon. I'm thinking putting the vise in a pail covered in vinegar and setting aside for a month or two. Any chance of this damaging the vise, freeing up the vise? I see some people also put salt in the vinegar. Is this recommended?

DON'T do that!

Vinegar will eat away the good metal at the same time as the rust. I forgot a wrench in white vinegar and it was nearly eaten all the way through it.

You can use vinegar, just watch it closely. Let it sit over night, then check it the next day. Use a wire brush in the sink to clean off the black stuff and check the progress. When it gets cleaned to your liking, you need to neutralize the vinegar with baking soda to stop the acid.

The thread index has a section on this, post #3:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=434502

The vise threads have plenty of information on this, read through these:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=252830&highlight=vises+101

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44782

 

[Lassen Forge]

I've always been a fan of using electrolysis for removing rust from large, heavy cast items... takes a bit to set up, but the results I've had are stellar... and I don't believe you have the metal erosion issues you do with a vinegar or naval jelly soak...

 

[driz]

Simple electrolysis works best. It pulls the last stubborn bits out of those tiny pits that are all over. Nothin needed but some washing soda and a 12 v battery and a sacrificial steel piece or pieces arranged around and near the work piece. The hardest part is finding a plastic (nonconductive)bucket to submerge it in.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Roberts210]

I've used electrolysis a lot. The results can be amazing. I bought a 120VAC to 12VAC transformer for about $10, then got a bridge rectifier for $4 to change the AC to DC. Wired in a fuse and got some old battery clamps.

Here are some rear brake cylinders that had sat in the mud under a 1953 Chevy for 30 years. The left one is untreated, and on the right is the one that got dunked for a day and a half.



Here is a parking brake cable end w/ bracket. Same thing--sat in the mud under the '53 Chevy for 30 years.

Before:



After:

 

[elidas]

Thanks for all the responses. I'm a fan of electrolysis also. I have a setup outside. Being in New England makes this a little impractical right now. I'll wait until spring. Now what to do with 12 gallons of vinegar.

 

[930dreamer]

Also the use of graphite instead of iron will reduce the sludge in the solution.

 

[toolmiser]

Where would be a good source of graphite? Don't say pencils.

 

[The Cobbler]

X again on the electrolysis.
it is safe to do indoors as the by products are oxygen & hydrogen , just don't keep it in a n enclosed area and you will be fine

 

[Maui]

I’d just take a 4 1/2” angle grinder with a wire wheel mounted on it and clean the vise up. You should be able to get all of it done in 30 minutes or so. And it should look great. After you get that done I would set up the vise so that it is sitting vertically and inside a plastic bag and pour some evaporust into the slide area to eat away the rust you couldn’t reach. It should be able to clear up a lot of that rust so that you would have an easier time freeing it up.

 

[ooba tooba]

Thanks for all the responses. I'm a fan of electrolysis also. I have a setup outside. Being in New England makes this a little impractical right now. I'll wait until spring. Now what to do with 12 gallons of vinegar.

Kapusta (Polish style sweet and sour cabbage)
1 head cabbage cored, quartered and cut into small wedges
Simmer in stock pot with
1 cup wh vinegar
1 cup sugar
4 strips of cooked bacon (and grease)
Simmer until cabbage has cooked down and lost much of its “crunch”, stirring occasionally. Add sugar or vinegar to taste. Do not add water.
* to add a festive flair mix in a red cabbage when preparing this dish with 3 or more heads.
**my Buscia’s recipe’

 

[The Cobbler]

^^ LOL< so he has 12 gal of white vinegar, this recipe uses 1 cup...

 

[elidas]

Kapusta (Polish style sweet and sour cabbage)
1 head cabbage cored, quartered and cut into small wedges
Simmer in stock pot with
1 cup wh vinegar
1 cup sugar
4 strips of cooked bacon (and grease)
Simmer until cabbage has cooked down and lost much of its “crunch”, stirring occasionally. Add sugar or vinegar to taste. Do not add water.
* to add a festive flair mix in a red cabbage when preparing this dish with 3 or more heads.
**my Buscia’s recipe’

Now I have to go to Roly Poly in New Britain and get some food! (Connecticut locals will know)

 

[Shiftless]

^^ LOL< so he has 12 gal of white vinegar, this recipe uses 1 cup...

No problem!
Just multiply everything else by 192

 

[ooba tooba]

^^ LOL< so he has 12 gal of white vinegar, this recipe uses 1 cup...

We’re going to need a lot of cabbage.

 

[ooba tooba]

No problem!
Just multiply everything else by 192

I was going to do this first, but figured I’d just copy the recipe as is and let OP figure it out

 

[Whitworth]

Put away all my electrolysis stuff after discovering Evaporust.

 

[elidas]

Unfortunately I'm on Warfarin and can't have cabbage. I'm half Eastern Europeon. Telling me not to have cabbage is like telling an Italian they can't have pasta

 

[jonshonda]

The downfall of electrolysis is the "line of sight" rust removal, vs a liquid solution like vinegar or evaporust that will remove rust everywhere it can reach.

 

[Roberts210]

You just have to get creative in placing the anode & cathode with the line of sight.
I used vinegar on a 100+ yr-old plane, and wished I hadn't afterwards. And evaporust costs $. Washing soda, or powdered dishwashing detergent is dirt cheap.

 

[930dreamer]

Where would be a good source of graphite? Don't say pencils.

eBay- graphite scrap

 

[Maui]

You just have to get creative in placing the anode & cathode with the line of sight.
I used vinegar on a 100+ yr-old plane, and wished I hadn't afterwards. And evaporust costs $. Washing soda, or powdered dishwashing detergent is dirt cheap.

Evaporust isn’t cheap, but it can be used over and over again.

 

[Davefr]

Instead of Vinegar, use 10-15% feed grade Molasses and water. It's slow but very safe and very effective. Way less hassle then electrolysis and a lot cheaper then Evaporust if you're not in a hurry.

I threw a very rusty anvil in a tote of the solution and a month later it was rust free. It's best done in warmer temps.

 

[macgee]

Now what to do with 12 gallons of vinegar.

Do you eat a lot salad?


+1 on electro for bigger items. I use Evaporust almost daily, love it but its expensive to use for large items like a big vise, you'll need more than 1 gallon, probably more like 2+ gallons and dos much better with warmth than cold. Totally fine to use indoors

 

[Roberts210]

I de-rusted the entire covertible top frame of my '53 Chevy using electrolysis. I disassembled it and used a garbage can. It took months, because the pieces stuck up out of the garbage can, so I'd turn them after 4-5 days. And I had to get real creative on placing the anode bars.

 

[Bubba Fett]

I use vinegar. Just check it from time to time. Usually 1 to 3 nights is all you need. I don't rely on vinegar to do all the work, as it can eat away at the metal as well. Instead, I use it as a way to loosen and weaken the rust. Once I remove the item, I rinse it with water to stop the reaction. Then I use a wire brush to remove the worse rust, and sandpaper to take care of the rest. Certain items may have pitting from the rust, but if cosmetics are an issue, sanding can remove a lot of that.

I've restored pliers, screwdrivers, etc. like this, and have been pleased with the results. It takes patience, but it is kind of fun.

A thin coat of linseed oil helps prevent additional rust. I have also used plastidip to make new handles on pliers. Follow the directions, and go slow. It usually takes 4-5 coats to get the thickness and feel you want.

 

[tom coffey]

I've tried most methods known to man, this man anyway. I've written off vinegar and molasses, too stinky and never did work well for me. I still sandblast or glassbead occasionally but I much prefer electrolysis or Evaporust. I bought a deal in a 5 gallon pail of Evaporust from my favorite local hardware store a couple of years ago for $40 because they had it in inventory for quite a while. It works much better than vinegar or molasses ever could. Do yourself a favor and try come Evaporust. You'll like it. I promise.

 

[macgee]

I've tried most methods known to man, this man anyway. I've written off vinegar and molasses, too stinky and never did work well for me. I still sandblast or glassbead occasionally but I much prefer electrolysis or Evaporust.

Do yourself a favor and try Evaporust. You'll like it. I promise.

This ^

Here's a link to help get some, now $15:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=8746304#post8746304

 

[Marvin Hagen]

I use Evaporust it is expensive. When I soak a wrench I find the smallest container that the wrench fits in or wait and soak 5 or 10 at the same time. Then wait use a green dish washing scouring pad to break more rust loose and soak. When I am done I will drain the container in a separate jug and only use this jug then add clean to the next soak. Evaporust will turn your stuff black if you let it in to long. If you have a fine wire wheel it will polish it up. The bad thing about Evaporust is the film and it pulls out all the oil out of the metal and it will start rusting fast.

 

[crguy]

If you use vinegar or Evaporust on a tool with any collectible value, you will lower the value. Serious collectors hate both of them.

 

[Shiftless]

If you use vinegar or Evaporust on a tool with any collectible value, you will lower the value. Serious collectors hate both of them.

Let’s say you run into a situation where you found a set of rare collectible tools that look like these.

Without using Evaporust or electrolysis or molasses, how would you clean these up?

Mechanical methods such as wire wheels or sand blasting seem to me to be worse than chemical rust removal. The honest patina of age is a beautiful thing. But to me, heavy rust must be removed.

 

[d42jeep]

If you use vinegar or Evaporust on a tool with any collectible value, you will lower the value. Serious collectors hate both of them.

Apparently what you are saying is that all of us on this site using Evaporust aren’t “serious collectors”. Good to know. Shiftless might as well give away his incredible vise collection, since he obviously isn’t a “serious collector”.
-Don

 

[lilredex]

Was always a fan of electrolysis (and Evaporust) to clean up things. My $2 Rae cleaned up nicely.

It looks like WD 40 Rust Soak Remover is also a winner. I see Lowes in the U.S. has it for $10 per gallon. Look at 4:49 here

then the results....very impressive.

 

[Roberts210]

Let’s say you run into a situation where you found a set of rare collectible tools that look like these.

Without using Evaporust or electrolysis or molasses, how would you clean these up?

Mechanical methods such as wire wheels or sand blasting seem to me to be worse than chemical rust removal. The honest patina of age is a beautiful thing. But to me, heavy rust must be removed.

Electrolysis is the only safe method for something like these wrenches. I've posted these pictures before, but take a look at this parking brake cable end/bracket, which had sat in the mud under a 1953 Chevy for over 30 years.

Before:

And after 2 days in the electrolysis tank.

 

[macgee]

Apparently what you are saying is that all of us on this site using Evaporust aren’t “serious collectors”. Good to know. Shiftless might as well give away his incredible vise collection, since he obviously isn’t a “serious collector”.
-Don

Don, You're spot on. Shiftless, What day this week is a good time to come over and pick them all up from you?

Joking aside, I don't consider myself a serious collector but way more inspired to saving old tooling and machinery from the dumpster, to bring them back so people get to use them for another 100 years, so my friends and clients grandchildren will still hopefully get to use them as well; and not to sit on a shelf. Although I do appreciate serious collecting.

I definitely would NOT use vinegar, I guess it can work if you have to but its an acid and eats almost everything, including the good parts of the tool and not just the rust. The key is to remove only the rust and keep the good stuff.

99+% of most items needing de-rusting wouldn't be collectable in the first place for numerous reasons. Their are some situations where it is totally warranted to keep the tool original and unaltered or apply a more sensitive cleaning process.

I made the mistake using Evaporust on my complete Plomb Pebble combination wrench set, it wasn't kind to the plating but then I'm using them everyday as my daily users and then they were rusted when I got them.

Most of the items I restore look way too shiny/gaudy right afterwards but after a couple of years in a shop environment; nature does its thing and starts going back to looking more typical.

 

[d42jeep]

Don, You're spot on. Shiftless, What day this week is a good time to come over and pick them all up from you?

Joking aside, I don't consider myself a serious collector but way more inspired to saving old tooling and machinery from the dumpster, to bring them back so people get to use them for another 100 years, so my friends and clients grandchildren will still hopefully get to use them as well; and not to sit on a shelf. Although I do appreciate serious collecting.

I definitely would NOT use vinegar, I guess it can work if you have to but its an acid and eats almost everything, including the good parts of the tool and not just the rust. The key is to remove only the rust and keep the good stuff.

99+% of most items needing de-rusting wouldn't be collectable in the first place for numerous reasons. Their are some situations where it is totally warranted to keep the tool original and unaltered or apply a more sensitive cleaning process.

I made the mistake using Evaporust on my complete Plomb Pebble combination wrench set, it wasn't kind to the plating but then I'm using them everyday as my daily users and then they were rusted when I got them.

Most of the items I restore look way too shiny/gaudy right afterwards but after a couple of years in a shop environment; nature does its thing and starts going back to looking more typical.

I used Evaporust on all of my pebbles that needed de-rusting. They came out somewhat more uniform in appearance. I use Fluid Film on any of them that I’m worried will rust.
-Don

 

[jdshear01]

There are quite a few good YouTube videos about tool restoration where different fluids and methods are compared. I did end up buying some Evaporust, of all places, Harbor Freight. I was able to use a coupon which was cool, sort of a hack to get a US made product. A lot of their chemicals are actually American made brands. Anyway - I used it to clean up a rusty trailer pin as a test. It did a good job but the pitting on the pin was seriously bad, it left the metal somewhat a gray color but it did work pretty good.

 

[LesserSon]

If you use vinegar or Evaporust on a tool with any collectible value, you will lower the value. Serious collectors hate both of them.

I’d like to see the evidence. Actually, I don’t need to: the qualifiers “any” and “serious” negate demonstrability from any serious claim, LOL.

As a reminder, the OP is interested in freeing up a neglected, rust-frozen vise. It’s not silver or copper or pewter. There is no “patina” to be saved. The darkened surface of the material will return in hours or days, regardless of derusting method. And the OP may intend to paint the vise! The main consideration is to avoid damaging or erroding the functioning parts.
A physical removal of the majority of loose rust by hand scraping (use a tool that’s softer than the underlying “good” material) will prepare the vise for targeting the internals with chemical rust removal. Evaporust is one brand of an increasing number of similar ready-to-use chemical products, in which the vise can be submerged and checked periodically. Once free and disassembled, the parts can be reconditioned as needed.

For solid-bodied steel tools, where the rust is external, virtually any rust removal method can be used, IF CAREFULLY MONITORED. Most of my “fails” have occured because of carelessness or forgetfulness, not flaws intrinsic to the method. I like mechanical removal, because when I stop, the process stops. Inattention and distraction are the main dangers. Add power (benchgrinder with wire wheel), and there’s also reaction time.
Chemical methods require monitoring, awareness of time and temperature, and thus EXPERIENCE. Using any method for the first time, expect surprises, not all of them good.

 

[Shiftless]

I’m still a big fan of Evaporust. I use a bench grinder with Nyalox wheels for polishing vise handles and similar pieces.
As opposed to wire wheeling, I like the way Evaporust leaves all of the details such as cast in lettering on the sides of vises sharp and distinct. Sometimes I highlight the lettering with contrasting paint.

Does buying Evaporust in 5 gallon buckets make me “serious” ?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I saw some comments about the charcoal film that appears on some tools. That's carbon and it only appears on tools with high carbon composition, not tools high in alloy steel. Ironically, that film would actually make a great rust inhibitor, akin to black oxide, if it wasn't so messy to the touch. It wipes off easily with any light abrasive pad (Scotchbrite, 0000 steel wool) and a penetrating oil of your choice.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record or a salesman, I never use anything other than Evaporust or Metal Rescue, a competitor to Evaporust in the mysterious and miraculous water-based, non-toxic, acid-free, Ph-neutral de-rusting solutions category.

What's not to like? No mask required. No gloves required. Just hang the rags up to dry. And when it's finally lost its potency, many weeks and dozens and dozens of tools later, you can toss the dark brown liquid out as carefree as tossing a bucket of detergent after washing your car. It is quite literally classified as a detergent and safer than dish soap.

Because I'm a skinflint, I was filtering it last year, to try to eke every ounce of magic out of ever molecule, but I stopped that this year when I concluded the results were negligible, a decision made that much easier when my Tractor Supply dropped the price from $21/gal. to $17/gal.

As a PSA, there are several old threads on this topic linked in the Index if anyone really wants to read more debates, testimonials, tests, and critiques.

I think people would be surprised to discover how commonly these solutions are used even by those who like their hobby to be accompanied by officers, rules, newsletters, monthly meetings, annual swap meet soirees, a fancy name beginning with "Early" and ending with "Association," and, oh yeah, dues.