Steve in UT
Well-known member
Ok, enough pvc talk. Lets see some more cool air systems!
Shop air lines
- Thread starter thejudges69
- Start date
600SL
Well-known member
I have iron black pipe in my shop with really good Prevost safety QD's all put together with Teflon tape now about 5 years old. I can go away for a week or two, come back and turn on the compressor and the compressor will not have to recharge. But if I leave an air line connected to a something like a blow gun or air tool I have problems with leaking if the tool has an old male fitting on it. I need to go and purchase a bunch of good quality Prevost male connectors and replace all the Home Depot etc, ones on all of my tools to stop that. Also just this last month I found two of my hose reals leaking at the slip ring joint. So I will have to rebuild all three of my hose reels.
So I would say getting a leek proof system is not impossible with any kind of pipe but the connectors need to be good quality on the male and female end and hose real slip rings will require occasional maintenance along with the connectors.
Similar. Just I have 100ft of hose coiled up. It's long enough to get almost to the end of my driveway.
600SL
Well-known member
I did exactly the same thing in the 90's. Then about 6 months after I installed my air system I was working on plumbing in the house. I went to order more PVC fittings from McMaster Carr and on each page of the online catalogue was this big warning in red. "Do not use PVC for compressed air". Well job was done and working fine and lasted without issue until I moved in 2013. But my next garage got iron pipe.
600SL
Well-known member
Here's mine
Black Pipe Airline Project
I'm just about done with the install of my airline system. The system involved 252' of pipe. 11 3/4" and 1 1/2 21 ft lengths. It has 5 drops plus plumbing overhead to two lift outlets. Thanks to the help I received from people on this thread I was able to cut thread and bend the pipe as...
www.garagejournal.com
OP
thejudges69
Well-known member
That's what we had at my dad's shop. It was a huge pet peeve of mine. Drive me ****** bonkers. Hose be to short so gotta piece them together and all that. Won't ever have that setup again.
andyvh1959
Well-known member
Nylon air brake tubing, like used on nearly every air braked truck on the road. Air brake tubing is constant duty rated for 150 psi, and has a 4:1 safety factor. That means it will burst/fail at no less than 600 psi. A shop air system is a very steady system pressure wise, with little or no pressure spikes (think pressure like constant in a floor jack). I am plumbing my shop air system using 5/8" OD black nylon air brake tubing, which has an effective ID of 1/2", plenty big enough for most shop air needs. Nylon air brake tubing is designed specifically for compressed air systems, while PVC and ABS tubing is not intended for higher pressure fluid systems.
Air brake tubing is readily available at any truck service center, or most any hydraulics distributor. You can use very common compression style brass fittings or even use very handy and reliable push to connect air brake fittings. The tubing is easily cut with a fine tooth hacksaw or even some larger side cutters. The tubing is reinforced with polyester braid, so it is stronger than PVC or ABS for air systems. You can mount all the fittings wherever you want on the walls, including drops to tees with quick disconnects, then use side cutters or plastic tubing cutters to cut the tube sections to fit between the fittings.
Air brake tubing is readily available at any truck service center, or most any hydraulics distributor. You can use very common compression style brass fittings or even use very handy and reliable push to connect air brake fittings. The tubing is easily cut with a fine tooth hacksaw or even some larger side cutters. The tubing is reinforced with polyester braid, so it is stronger than PVC or ABS for air systems. You can mount all the fittings wherever you want on the walls, including drops to tees with quick disconnects, then use side cutters or plastic tubing cutters to cut the tube sections to fit between the fittings.
mowkep
Well-known member
I have a bunch of the pvc connectors and manifolds from our shop which just closed down. PM if interested
Depends on your shop layout. Mine is 2 story barn with paint-booth and other rooms beneath. Copper would'e been hard to fish and solder everywhere..I went with PEX 3/4. 3/4 PEX has inside of 1/2" really. Made it REAL easy to loop over rafters,,through flooring and walls..Compressors are outside and regulated to feed 130psi through wall to 40' copper back/ forth water trap and filtration. There is another regulator after,& a shut-off valve. I set at 110 for shop air,,Once done I went around everywhere with soapy water to check connections,,retightened a few,,and it's sealed. PVC is good but possible explosion hazard,,and still not as easy to easy to run as PEX,, Also PEX is easy/fast to add too in future. I don't regret PEX
Other advantages for PEX over copper or air lines from northern,,,No torches/sweating joints...I had areas where torch would possibly catch stuff on fire in wall,,,Pex fittings can be bought in bulk( like bags of 10) elbows,Ts, shut-offs,bands ect,,from amazon and delivered in a day or 2 cheap...the fancy air lines from nothern lacked the numerous fittings and cost a fortune compared to PEX stuff off amazon...I fought for years going PEX,,replumbing houses with copper or CPVC...once you understand what you can do with PEX,fittings, and have a few simple tools,,you'll never look back.
Another TIP on using PEX for airline...Use some thread sealant paste on the fitting barbs when you slip them into the plastic pipe. Then clamp the band with tool. Same thread sealant you'd put on black pipe threads. When I switched to this way,,it made mine air tight 1st time. Before this I was chasing tiny tiny air leaks at fittings.(Pex made for water,not air) I can leave my garage for days and the lines still have 110lbs.
Another TIP on using PEX for airline...Use some thread sealant paste on the fitting barbs when you slip them into the plastic pipe. Then clamp the band with tool. Same thread sealant you'd put on black pipe threads. When I switched to this way,,it made mine air tight 1st time. Before this I was chasing tiny tiny air leaks at fittings.(Pex made for water,not air) I can leave my garage for days and the lines still have 110lbs.
Other way around, rapid air 3/4" is 3/4" ID.
I had the Rapidair 1/2in home garage kit. Measured by OD, 1/2in OD and 3/8in ID.
Was my only experience with the brand and was disappointed with the kit I used.
I have a kit and extra line ready to go in waiting and eat to measure and confirmed before posting.
That sounds like you used the max line product as opposed to the Fast Pipe. Fastpipe is only available in 3/4" or larger. Maxline in 1/2".
DocsMachine
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2006
- Messages
- 1,857
-I was given to understand the original Rapidair was 3/8" (OD), which was solid plastic tubing, MaxLine could be had in 1/2" and 3/4" ID, which was PEX-AL-PEX (aluminum core bendable tubing) and the FastPipe was 1" (not sure if ID or OD) rigid aluminum pipe.
Doc.
Steve in UT
Well-known member
Nicely done. Any woulda coulda shouda's after this many years?Here's mine
Black Pipe Airline Project
I'm just about done with the install of my airline system. The system involved 252' of pipe. 11 3/4" and 1 1/2 21 ft lengths. It has 5 drops plus plumbing overhead to two lift outlets. Thanks to the help I received from people on this thread I was able to cut thread and bend the pipe as...
Metallitubby
Well-known member
Here's mine
Black Pipe Airline Project
I'm just about done with the install of my airline system. The system involved 252' of pipe. 11 3/4" and 1 1/2 21 ft lengths. It has 5 drops plus plumbing overhead to two lift outlets. Thanks to the help I received from people on this thread I was able to cut thread and bend the pipe as...
It looks very nice and I agree on Steve's question. Is there anything you'd change after all these years?
racecougar
Well-known member
Sounds like you were using the nylon tubing, like this: https://www.rapidairproducts.com/shop/rapidair/rapidair-home-garage-kit
I'd say that most posters referring to RapidAir in this thread are talking about the RapidAir Maxline kits (myself included). Those are measured by I.D.
MaxLine ½″ Tubing Single Port x 1/2″ NPT Outlet | RapidAir Products
Elevate your tubing system with a high-quality MaxLine 1/2″ tubing single port x 1/2″ NPT outlet by RapidAir. Explore our range of products now.
www.rapidairproducts.com
Bopbop
Well-known member
As an engineer who designs plumbing, medical gas, compressed air and similar systems I would not use PVC, CPVC or PEX piping. As someone stated above the listing or rating for pressure in a water system and a compressed air system is not the same. Air and other gases are compressible while water is not considered a compressible substance. When air is compressed it stores lots of energy which will cause it to explode when impacted.
Go to the Charlotte pipe or Speirs pipe website. Look at their product data. They will tell you not to use the piping for compressed air piping. They also state not to test the system with compressed air. I have seen several pictures of failure in the piping system. PEX has the same disclaimers.
There are several HDPE piping systems which can handle compressed air and are listed for compressed air. I did a mega yacht repair yard a few years ago with this system. An 8" discharge from the multiple air compressors to a 6" around the dry dock. The dry dock can fit (12) 250 to 300 yachts at the same time. The system can flow 2,000 CFM with about 10 PSI pressure loss at full flow. The system was an easy install with no issues to date in the salt water environment. The manufacturer of this piping offered to pipe my shop with it for free as a display. I did not go that route because if I ever had to add a drop or do a repair it required special tools to fuse the piping system together.
In the past 10 years we have used lots of the rigid rapid air type products in several shops. Those being the aircraft industry, auto repair and dealerships and industrial settings. I used this piping in my shop. Yes i have some small leaks. If I shut my compressor off and leave it for 4 or 5 days it will leak down from 180 PSI to maybe 50 PSI. But I saw the same in the old shop with steel pipe.
Go to the Charlotte pipe or Speirs pipe website. Look at their product data. They will tell you not to use the piping for compressed air piping. They also state not to test the system with compressed air. I have seen several pictures of failure in the piping system. PEX has the same disclaimers.
There are several HDPE piping systems which can handle compressed air and are listed for compressed air. I did a mega yacht repair yard a few years ago with this system. An 8" discharge from the multiple air compressors to a 6" around the dry dock. The dry dock can fit (12) 250 to 300 yachts at the same time. The system can flow 2,000 CFM with about 10 PSI pressure loss at full flow. The system was an easy install with no issues to date in the salt water environment. The manufacturer of this piping offered to pipe my shop with it for free as a display. I did not go that route because if I ever had to add a drop or do a repair it required special tools to fuse the piping system together.
In the past 10 years we have used lots of the rigid rapid air type products in several shops. Those being the aircraft industry, auto repair and dealerships and industrial settings. I used this piping in my shop. Yes i have some small leaks. If I shut my compressor off and leave it for 4 or 5 days it will leak down from 180 PSI to maybe 50 PSI. But I saw the same in the old shop with steel pipe.
jhracer
Member
I used Pex-AL-Pex in my shop. Bought a roll online. The only issue was trying to straighten it out to install in on the wall.
MotorCityBear
Active member
I also did the Rapid Air Maxline when I built my shop last year. I initially pressurized the system and let it sit over night with no leakage. I then had spray foam insulation and drywall added. Now I have a leak somewhere inside the walls. My 80 tank empties overnight, I am guessing the drywall installer hit an airline with a drywall screw but I am not removing drywall and the foam insulation at this point to find the leak.
600SL
Well-known member
No regrets after doing this it works perfectly. No leaks at all in the piping system. It will hold pressure forever right up until I connect it to something where it may or may not leak at the QD's or hose real slip rings. But after I finished the job, I did see a document from Milton, recommending galvanized pipe. I went with black pipe only because that's what I've seen in all the shops I worked in the past. I might consider galvanized after further research.
But it is alot of work to do and for that reason, I might consider a system like Rapid Air.
toyotadriver
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2010
- Messages
- 1,586
The laws of physics disagree with you. The thing about the laws of physics are, they are unforgiving and have zero compassion or tolerance.
You can ignore reality but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.
The so called 1/2in RapidAir plastic with push connect fittings I used in the old shop was when they were first available. Long before MaxLine came about. It is 1/2in OD.
But with all the PVC hysteria... are they any known incidences of PEX really being an issue?
I wouldn't use PVC for liquid in my house, certainly not for exposed lines of compressed air.
But with all the PVC hysteria... are they any known incidences of PEX really being an issue?
I wouldn't use PVC for liquid in my house, certainly not for exposed lines of compressed air.
Stuart in MN
Well-known member
I don't think PEX is typically rated by the manufacturers for use with compressed air, but since it's soft and flexible it won't have the potential hazards of PVC if it fails.
I've helped with 3 low budget, low demand setups. The largest was a car shop that was physically the size of many dealer repair shops but was just 3 people working in the space. We used 1/2" PEX feeding 4 or 5 drop reels. The system used 300' of tubing. It was nice that we could bend around obstructions/corners with PEX vs having to do joints/etc with copper. The shop owner was aware that PEX is not air pressure rated but like many here have said, the risk of failure has more to do with a system leak vs a safety problem.
The other two were setups in barn/home garage setups. In that those cases we just used cheap PVC air hose (actual air rated hose from Walmart etc not PVC pipe). The air hose plus a few barb fittings and hose clamps results in a very cheap setup for one or two drops. I did it in my tiny garage to make it easier to get to a "drop" near the door so I could air car and bike tires without having to stretch a hose across my car and workbench from the compressor packed in the far corner (I hate having a small garage). In my brother's larger garage we did it just so we had a second, easy to access drop for airing tires etc. In both cases it was understood that this isn't the best way to handle moisture and 3/8" hose will have some flow loss. Not a concern given how we were using things. Our high flow tools (zip wheel, impact) will be connected at the compressor. So if moisture control and flow losses aren't big concerns a pressure hose based system is a very budget friendly option.
Our setups were similar to this but with just one drop away from the compressor so very cheap
The other two were setups in barn/home garage setups. In that those cases we just used cheap PVC air hose (actual air rated hose from Walmart etc not PVC pipe). The air hose plus a few barb fittings and hose clamps results in a very cheap setup for one or two drops. I did it in my tiny garage to make it easier to get to a "drop" near the door so I could air car and bike tires without having to stretch a hose across my car and workbench from the compressor packed in the far corner (I hate having a small garage). In my brother's larger garage we did it just so we had a second, easy to access drop for airing tires etc. In both cases it was understood that this isn't the best way to handle moisture and 3/8" hose will have some flow loss. Not a concern given how we were using things. Our high flow tools (zip wheel, impact) will be connected at the compressor. So if moisture control and flow losses aren't big concerns a pressure hose based system is a very budget friendly option.
Our setups were similar to this but with just one drop away from the compressor so very cheap
yatg
Well-known member
Was doing research for my own system and here's some collected info.
RapidAir pipe sizing
RapidAir Home Garage kit
Material: nylon
1/2 od, 3/8 id
Maxline (size) has the same or larger ID
Material: inner and outer layer HDPE, center layer Aluminum
1/2" size - .63 O.D. x .50 I.D.
3/4" size - .98 O.D. x .80 I.D.
1" size - 1.26 O.D. x 1.02 I.D.
200 psi maximum working pressure at 73°F
160 psi maximum working pressure at 140°F
Maxline isn't exactly PEX-AL-PEX.
Similar construction but different materials (inner/outer layers HDPE vs. PEX)
Maxline with HDPE is susceptible to sunlight (UV) just like PEX is.
"tubing should be covered, fittings are ok. Like any plastic product exposed to direct sunlight, it’s best to cover or paint the tubing to extend its working life."
PEX-AL-PEX has almost identical sizes (depending on which manufacturers specs you look at), pressure ratings, and fittings.
Don't know if they are interchangeable.
Some sources say pex-al-pex is rated for compressed air, some don't.
Regular PEX doesn't have anybody saying its rated for compressed air.
Fastpipe (size) has slightly smaller ID
Material: Aluminum alloy grade 5042
3/4” size - .79 O.D. x .69 I.D.
1” size - .98 O.D. x .87 I.D.
190 psi maximum working pressure, temp range 0°F to 140°F
RapidAir References
www.rapidairproducts.com
RapidAir pipe sizing
RapidAir Home Garage kit
Material: nylon
1/2 od, 3/8 id
Maxline (size) has the same or larger ID
Material: inner and outer layer HDPE, center layer Aluminum
1/2" size - .63 O.D. x .50 I.D.
3/4" size - .98 O.D. x .80 I.D.
1" size - 1.26 O.D. x 1.02 I.D.
200 psi maximum working pressure at 73°F
160 psi maximum working pressure at 140°F
Maxline isn't exactly PEX-AL-PEX.
Similar construction but different materials (inner/outer layers HDPE vs. PEX)
Maxline with HDPE is susceptible to sunlight (UV) just like PEX is.
"tubing should be covered, fittings are ok. Like any plastic product exposed to direct sunlight, it’s best to cover or paint the tubing to extend its working life."
PEX-AL-PEX has almost identical sizes (depending on which manufacturers specs you look at), pressure ratings, and fittings.
Don't know if they are interchangeable.
Some sources say pex-al-pex is rated for compressed air, some don't.
Regular PEX doesn't have anybody saying its rated for compressed air.
Fastpipe (size) has slightly smaller ID
Material: Aluminum alloy grade 5042
3/4” size - .79 O.D. x .69 I.D.
1” size - .98 O.D. x .87 I.D.
190 psi maximum working pressure, temp range 0°F to 140°F
RapidAir References
Flow Rate Calculator - RapidAir Products
Flow rate calculator contain system specific calculator, general calculator to calculate the products required for your air piping systems.
www.rapidairproducts.com
metlmunchr
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2011
- Messages
- 1,278
I think you're right. Personally, I've never seen any specific prohibition against the use of PEX for air lines as do exist against the use of PVC. Instead, the pex manufacturers state that it is "not approved" for air.
A manufacturer may well know their pex is suitable for air, but, for the miniscule percent of sales as compared to sales for water use, the expense of all the testing required to certify the product as suitable for compressed air use likely isn't worthwhile. Such approval would have to include cautions against UV exposure and any other known weaknesses. Given the number of idiots who would ignore these cautions just the same as the the ones who ignore the well known dangers of pvc, there's not much incentive for a manufacturer to go to the expense of certification and assume the risks of the downsides for something that MIGHT increase their overall sales by 1%.
nadogail
Well-known member
My air system, in a two car garage, is plumbed with a hose running through the ceiling joists.
OCD
Well-known member
I went with 3/4" aluminum since I only did one 24' wall...
Last shop I was at was 20+ yr old PVC.
I installed a larger rubber hose and 1/4 turn valve at the compressor. Had previously been a tiny 1/4" line.
Of course anyone with half of a brain wouldn't quickly open the valve full blast and rather crack it until at least the lines filled up a bit.
I even wrote a note right by the valve to keep it dummy proof.
Well... had someone that shouldn't touch put it wide open. The surge pressure exploded several fittings and sections
of hose.
Sounded like a canon going off.
OCD
Well-known member
They work great, no issues at all!!
Yes Maxline/Rapidair even makes a pipe straightener. My install came out just about perfect and straight. Best thing is the nice sweeping bends I made with a conduit bender. But they sell a $165 bender too!
Pipe Bender
Here what the straightener looks like;
I made my own for WAY less than $139!! Of course mine was plywood with plastic wheels so I guess the AL. plate makes it worth it.
There are others out there plus several sets of plans on different forums to build your own. I had about $50 in parts and hour or so building it. Well worth the end results too.
.
.
.
Pipe Straightener
Pipe Bender
Here what the straightener looks like;
I made my own for WAY less than $139!! Of course mine was plywood with plastic wheels so I guess the AL. plate makes it worth it.
There are others out there plus several sets of plans on different forums to build your own. I had about $50 in parts and hour or so building it. Well worth the end results too.
.
.
.
Pipe Straightener
Firebrick43
Well-known member
You can bend copper pipe and not use fittings if you so desire.
All the 3/4" copper in this pic is bent, and very few fittings as its expanded instead of a coupling and the manifolds made with a tee puller
toyotadriver
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2010
- Messages
- 1,586
Wow
Firebrick43
Well-known member
It really is not hard. Its just some very simple math sometime, most of the time if bends are to the right(and 90) then its just marking them with a marker and placing that mark at the R on the bender.
That's impressive looking work. Just the sort of thing I don't think we could have pulled off with our copper skills or tools. A nice thing about PEX is how easily we could bend around things without being good with copper pipe.You can bend copper pipe and not use fittings if you so desire.
All the 3/4" copper in this pic is bent, and very few fittings as its expanded instead of a coupling and the manifolds made with a tee puller
Last edited:
Firebrick43
Well-known member
I probably wouldn't be able to do it either if I kept telling myself that I couldn't.
I understand what you are saying. That said, for our needs the PEX was easier and cheaper and we had the tools and we didn't have to learn new skills so it really made sense.