Show off your DOE's!

[Private Lugnutz]

Agreed. It's like someone designed half the die to stamp it out and went to lunch, and while he was gone, someone else finished the die.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I plucked some oldies out of some toolboxes at the flea yesterday, including a pair of very early Hinsdale stamped steel jobbies, an early Herbrand script logo checknut wrench (look how short the shank is for those milled opening sizes!), and my favorite, a very early Mossberg "S" wrench. Isn't it just as cute as a bug's ear? I have found plenty of straight shankers from this era, collected to fill out the set that was stowed in the top shelf of the No. 14 socket set, but I have never even seen another "S" wrench in the wild.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I was excited to find this wrench clip at the flea this morning. Not branded. Simple, effective operation. Less excited when I discovered it was a tad too thin for the beams of the wrench sets I have been collecting over the years that are in need of a clip. But I will think of something.

 

[Outlawmws]

Maybe tappet wrenches?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I think the issue is newer vs older wrenches. Did you see the photo of the fuzzy wrenches that were in it that I left behind? It will fit 5 smaller sizes of Hinsdale, Barcalo and BHM. But it won't fit the same range of openings that was in it. That's due to narrower beams. But I'll figure something out.

 

[d42jeep]

Could it be this one shown in the ’43 Barcalo catalog? I don’t have one to compare.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

It could! Everything matches. Even the color. The wrenches were so bad I didn't even bother looking! The roofline wrenches won't fit, though. Unless I leave out the bigger ones. I could get creative to get some in a clip and some in hiding.

 

[d42jeep]

It says it holds 21 to 31 which is confusing unless you check the next page. Those are the smallest double grip wrenches shown so I suppose that they might fit. The clip definitely has a Barcalo look.
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

Here are some Craftsman =v= and -v- without part number metric DOE wrenches that I’ve gathered. The early Moore sourced =v= metrics are unusual enough that I keep them in a separate box.
-Don
Duplicates
The metric box

 

[LesserSon]

Turned up this Vlchek-forged Cadillac 13593 DOE this morning at the flea.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

A good reminder of just how prolific, diverse, and major Vlchek was in the early years.

 

[misterbill]

As @Private Lugnutz likes to say - 3 or more is a collection. I recently went from having just the Blue Point B-1351 1/4" x 3/16" brake eccentric wrench (that's 41-W-895 to you folks driving WWII OD vehicles) to having one each of Bonney, BluePoint, Williams and Wright.





Bill

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I recently went from having just the Blue Point B-1351 1/4" x 3/16" brake eccentric wrench (that's 41-W-895 to you folks driving WWII OD vehicles) to having one each of Bonney, BluePoint, Williams and Wright.

Skipping from "one" right over the numerical hump that represents "a couple" and "a few" is the least interesting part of that bona fide "collection". I don't recall anyone else doing it with Eccentric Brake Wrenches. I love it! And it will be fun. My half moon wrench fetish is up to a couple dozen unique (no dupes) examples now. You have to keep it going. That hand-forged Wright is just awesome.

 

[d42jeep]

There will be no excuse to let your brakes get out of adjustment. Here is a picture of Bill’s beautiful Jeep.
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

Here is my Cornwell example.
-Don

 

[NoahG]

Some cute little Vanadium Tool Co. ignition size wrenches I picked up last weekend.

 

[PSCo1867]

Old blacksmith-forged DOE S-wrench, 7/16" X 9/16". One of countless wrenches made at the local steel mill, many before commercial tools were readily available. Check out the tapering on each head (see third pic).

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Look at the beam width!

 

[PSCo1867]

Look at the beam width!

That Bessemer steel needed all the help it could get!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Found another wrench for my 723 collection this morning. I'm going to need a bigger can.

 

[Provincial]

You need another WWI bacon tin!

 

[Outlawmws]

Or place the wrenches in a "horizontal stack" on edge.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Or place the wrenches in a "horizontal stack" on edge.

I'm too untidy to maintain that fastidious of an approach!

You need another WWI bacon tin!

Great idea. I have another one and they're a tad deeper. This may get me another year or so before I have to go larger.

 

[gatewaysysop]

Well, they don't get used all the time, but when you need one, they're nice to have. Almost all my other wrenches are Craftsman, purchased at least a decade back, same with these:



Also have these Craftsman tappet wrenches, which see even less usage, but again, when you need one...

 

[PSCo1867]

Stumped on this logo. H.D. Smith circle-S backward mistake? I'm pretty sure it's stamped "821", but possibly "621".

 

[four.cycle]

S-K 66 6-piece SAE open-end wrench set

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Stumped on this logo. H.D. Smith circle-S backward mistake? I'm pretty sure it's stamped "821", but possibly "621".

Didn't see this here. I replied to your query over on the Logo thread. Repeating it here, where the ISN and sizing discussion is more appropriate anyway.

I don't know what it is, but I can offer my thoughts for your consideration.

I suspect the reverse is unintentional and something to do with a flipped die.

The logo of an "S" in a circle was trademarked by H.D. Smith. Strangely, Starrett also used it, but only on pressed steel sockets. I am not familiar with either of them making DOE wrenches, though, which makes it even more odd. But those are the two I would search.

The "821" is also odd. It's not an ISN. It could be a model number, where the "8" is indicating the purpose of the wrench, possibly, but less likely, the composition, in a series of "8xx" model numbers, and the "21" is the ISN designator. It's an engineers' wrench, technically, and the markings (1/8" x 3/16") are correct for an ISN "21" wrench if they are expressed in U.S.S. nut and bolt sizes. The milled openings would be 5/16" x 13/32". With the jaws spread on that one opening, it's going to be hard to measure.

No idea on the "ACB."

I will emphasize that I have no awareness of H.D. Smith or Starrett making DOE wrenches. I haven't re-checked any Starrett catalogs, but I did re-check H.D. Smith 1915 and 1924.

 

[PSCo1867]

Didn't see this here. I replied to your query over on the Logo thread. Repeating it here, where the ISN and sizing discussion is more appropriate anyway.

I will emphasize that I have no awareness of H.D. Smith or Starrett making DOE wrenches. I haven't re-checked any Starrett catalogs, but I did re-check H.D. Smith 1915 and 1924.

Thanks for your insight on this. I hadn't been able to locate any H.D. Smith/Starrett cats with DOEs either.

One interesting point with this wrench is that it could well have been destined for scrap. I have a bucket of wrenches with quality issues that I've found at the steel mill. It's all part of the scrap that ends up back at the mill for re-melt. This little wrench has severe over-fill at the parting line, and combined with the backwards "s", is surely an item that the wrench-forger would not want in circulation. Enter millwrights that keep an eye out for this sort of thing, and you have a century and a half of these reject tools floating around the mill. Grabbing cool scrap before it ends up in the charging bucket is a time-honored tradition at the mill.

Of course, this still doesn't explain the "S in the circle" logo. As for it being backward, maybe the Hammer Man at the tool company was a novice or just having a bad, hungover Monday. Hammer-Man....is that the coolest job title or what?

 

[leg17]

.....This little wrench has severe over-fill at the parting line,.....

That's just forging flash not being completely ground away.

Backward "S" could have been die maker error failing to use the reverse stamp.
If that was the case, there should have been several ended up in circulation unless it was discovered immediately and someone kept a bad one for a souvenir.

Wrench does not look familiar. May have been limited demand or application.

Size markings indicate pre-1922 or so.

Hope you find out. Keep us posted.

 

[Beerhippie]

As of yesterday, this was my entire DOE collection:



Today, I went out junk shopping for a 5/16" X 1//4" US-made DOE to fill out a set I'm putting together for my Coleman camp gear tool box. Mission accomplished, but a couple of others followed me home:





What's up with the Bonney? What are CAP sizes?

Here's the Coleman kit:



9/16, 1/2, 7/16, 3/8, 5/16 and 1/4" will cover about 80% of my Coleman needs--and all in quality US steel to work on quality US gasoline appliances. I have the other wrenches already, which are specialty/modified wrenches.

 

[d42jeep]

I didn’t see a thread about vintage ratchet wrenches so I’ll post my metric Langline example here. I see fractional ratchet wrenches frequently but metric ones are fairly rare, in my experience. This one is 15 and 17mm.
-Don

 

[Outlawmws]

Don, were you thinking maybe the DBE thread?

A vintage ratcheting wrench (not ratchets) thread is probably a good Idea.

 

[d42jeep]

My brain must not have been working well at 4:00 AM.
I‘ll move it over where it should have gone.
-Don

 

[LesserSon]

What's up with the Bonney? What are CAP sizes?

CAP is for cap nuts. Up until May 1927, Bonney (and most manufacturers) sized wrench openings for the heads and nuts that fit the threads of a screw diameter, and marked the wrench with that screw diameter. SAE and CAP nuts that fit the same diameter thread can be different across flats, so a particular wrench opening might be marked with two or more screw diameters, as well as a hexagonal symbol for across-flats. There were also STD size nuts, which were not necessarily the same as SAE, since they were not designed for automotive use. Early catalogs present tabular charts for aligning these different sizing schemes.
The wider opening on your 1723 wrench (industry standard 723 - the 1 prefix is Bonney’s way of letting you know it’s made from chromium/vanadium alloy in case you missed those words or the CV circle) is telling you it will fit both SAE and CAP nuts on 1/4” threaded screws, but you can measure for yourself that the opening is 7/16” across flats (or a little wider as some nuts may be oxidized or plated).
In 1927 tool manufacturers began just marking the across-flats openings. If you think about it, all this allows is distinguishing one similar size wrench from another - it tells you nothing about thread diameter of the fastener or of the hole it will pass through. You might as well just number your wrenches without sizes, which some manufacturers did for sets.
Simple, right? Notice I have not even mentioned metric or Whitworth?

 

[Beerhippie]

CAP is for cap nuts. Up until May 1927, Bonney (and most manufacturers) sized wrench openings for the heads and nuts that fit the threads of a screw diameter, and marked the wrench with that screw diameter. SAE and CAP nuts that fit the same diameter thread can be different across flats, so a particular wrench opening might be marked with two or more screw diameters, as well as a hexagonal symbol for across-flats. There were also STD size nuts, which were not necessarily the same as SAE, since they were not designed for automotive use. Early catalogs present tabular charts for aligning these different sizing schemes.
The wider opening on your 1723 wrench (industry standard 723 - the 1 prefix is Bonney’s way of letting you know it’s made from chromium/vanadium alloy in case you missed those words or the CV circle) is telling you it will fit both SAE and CAP nuts on 1/4” threaded screws, but you can measure for yourself that the opening is 7/16” across flats (or a little wider as some nuts may be oxidized or plated).
In 1927 tool manufacturers began just marking the across-flats openings. If you think about it, all this allows is distinguishing one similar size wrench from another - it tells you nothing about thread diameter of the fastener or of the hole it will pass through. You might as well just number your wrenches without sizes, which some manufacturers did for sets.
Simple, right? Notice I have not even mentioned metric or Whitworth?

And for that, God bless!

Thanks! I'm familiar with some of this weirdness, but some is new to me.

Sometimes I'm glad I live in a fairly modern world... though I am old enough to remember having separate tool kits for bicycles from different countries--and the Whitworth kit for the TR3 and MG Midget.

 

[Beerhippie]

Turned up this Vlchek-forged Cadillac 13593 DOE this morning at the flea.

I picked up this entirely mystery DOE this AM:





Absolutely no markings--that I can see--even the sizes are a mystery (1/2" X 7/16" X 4 15/16" OAL)), but obviously the same as yours above.

 

[Beerhippie]

If anyone is trying to complete a set of unmarked, unbranded wrenches and needs this size--which is not marked--this one is available for shipping.

 

[tombell572]

I posted these on the King **** thread and I'll include them here. I've been restoring and riding BSA motorcycles for quite a while. I did my first restoration about 25 years ago and needed a set of proper English tools . I bought this set of King **** DOE's on British eBay then.

Tom B.

 

[Beerhippie]

Here's a brand I've never heard of:





I don't know what the AF in the size means, either, but this is true to ASE size nuts and bolts. Found it in the brewery tools.

 

[four.cycle]

Spearpoint Wrenches

progress-is-fine.blogspot.com

"as found"

no no no....

sorry.. it's "across the flats", if I'm not mistaken.