Show us your VFD conversions/installations

[bpwoodworking]

Nice... also... what's the project in walnut you got going on there....?

Thank you! That was an 18’ long cabinet. I make furniture and interiors.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Be careful turning that motor down that far. They don’t recommend running non inverter rated motors below 20hz. The way inverters form the wave forms causes very high voltage spikes. This will blow holes in the insulation of the motor windings. Inverter rated motors have a higher class of insulation to deal with those spikes.

Very nice job with your implementation!

it's less of an issue with 230v supplies (vs the higher voltage motors/supplies), and the PWMing means it doesn't matter much what the "frequency" is. even if you're running it at 30V RMS, the insulation still sees peak to peak 680v (or whatever it is) at 7kHz.

I've got an application running with NO fan, max 10Hz (direct drive), and just the thermostats hooked up to the drive (VFD cable ftw).

 

[u3b3rg33k]

This covers a lot of it:

 

[aquinob]

I have VFDs on two current tools, a Delta 30c RAS and a Delta 20 bandsaw. I used the mag switch to power on the VFD and wired the VFD directly to the motor. On the RAS, I made a small switchblock using some aluminum, rosewood and two momentary contact pushbuttons so I could turn the saw on and off while holding the handle.

On the bandsaw, I stashed the VFD in the box that the optional blade welder would normally sit the cut out an opening for it. What is very nice about using the VFD on this saw is that it gives me variable speed on the saw too.

I had an Arboga mill that was 3 phase and had it mounted up and to the left, I wanted to keep any potential metal shavings out of the electronics.

 

[Matt018888]

I have VFDs on two current tools, a Delta 30c RAS and a Delta 20 bandsaw. I used the mag switch to power on the VFD and wired the VFD directly to the motor. On the RAS, I made a small switchblock using some aluminum, rosewood and two momentary contact pushbuttons so I could turn the saw on and off while holding the handle.

On the bandsaw, I stashed the VFD in the box that the optional blade welder would normally sit the cut out an opening for it. What is very nice about using the VFD on this saw is that it gives me variable speed on the saw too.

I had an Arboga mill that was 3 phase and had it mounted up and to the left, I wanted to keep any potential metal shavings out of the electronics.

I like how you built the one in the bandsaw, looks factory. Nice work

 

[sparkness]

My drill Press with a 1/2 HP VFD

 

[larry4406]

@sparkness very cool table lift!

 

[Firstram]

Interesting tachometer, what powers it.

 

[sparkness]

Interesting tachometer, what powers it.

switchmode PS sitting top of the VFD 20V 2A the tach is an automotive 10,000 rpm I made a new face. and use a photo reflective sensor

 

[Greg9504]

In the video below there's a bit about the VFD used for the 15hp spindle on the robot, as well as Phase Perfect 20hp digital phase converter... all run off a 100 amp circuit

currently working on figuring out to integrate a PLC or command the VFD directly from the robot I/O. For now I manually turn the spindle on/off. The SEW VFD showed up locked out because the last person to use it put it into manual mode using the keypad. The keypad was missing (and is otherwise optional). Had to factory reset it. The SEW technical support helped despite me being just some random guy who purchased a used drive.

 

[bpwoodworking]

Really cool!

Got started on this vfd install. This is for the Martin shaper. It has a two speed motor and my plan so far is to connect to the low speed windings and over speed them for high speed.

The machine has some original functions that I need to tap into such as a light for each speed that is switched by a part that operates off the belt. Not sure if I’ll get that going or just show high/low.

The machine also has an oil pump for the bearings. The original is long gone and also the original pumps are all dead or dying by this age so no sense in trying to use one. Instead I bought a bijur surefire that I need to operate via relay with the vfd. So I’ll have to figure out how to do that.





Replaced the push buttons and lights. Same brand (Eaton) and type as the original but wanted a protruding off switch. Originals were all chewed up unfortunately.

 

[whateg01]

Really cool!

Got started on this vfd install. This is for the Martin shaper. It has a two speed motor and my plan so far is to connect to the low speed windings and over speed them for high speed.

The machine has some original functions that I need to tap into such as a light for each speed that is switched by a part that operates off the belt. Not sure if I’ll get that going or just show high/low.

The machine also has an oil pump for the bearings. The original is long gone and also the original pumps are all dead or dying by this age so no sense in trying to use one. Instead I bought a bijur surefire that I need to operate via relay with the vfd. So I’ll have to figure out how to do that.

You don't have to drive all of those things off of the vfd. They can be driven by whatever drives the vfd. The pump can be turned on by the fwd/rev signal feeding the vfd. That would allow you to include a delayed on or off if so desired, for example.

 

[bpwoodworking]

Good point, in the past I’ve used the onboard 24v to power the control circuit. I haven’t opened up the oil pump yet to see if this is enough voltage to run the relay.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

You don't have to drive all of those things off of the vfd. They can be driven by whatever drives the vfd. The pump can be turned on by the fwd/rev signal feeding the vfd. That would allow you to include a delayed on or off if so desired, for example.

Good point, in the past I’ve used the onboard 24v to power the control circuit. I haven’t opened up the oil pump yet to see if this is enough voltage to run the relay.

I've done a handful of projects with the WJ200 line, and they've got programmable outputs so you can run a pilot light or 24v relay directly off the drive. Most of the outputs are logic based aka sinking/sourcing, so you're likely better off driving a relay with it to keep the drive wiring simple, then wire your feature (oil pump controller) to the relay outputs.



I used the alarm relay to turn this light on ( the alarm relay is dry contacts), set to enable it if the VFD/driven motor is generating torque:


here's the test bench demo:

if you're not controlling it with a PLC, you can always put on a user switch for the oil pump, and use the drive to switch it on for you as well (wired in parallel with the switch) to avoid an "oops".

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Would you be willing to scan and share the addendum? I haven't seen it and I use these drives in my machinery builds often.

I think I forgot all about this. I should still have it at work.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

@slodat

this isn't exactly what I recall seeing in the box (i thought it had a table on it), but here it is in Hitachi's own words:

AC Variable Speed Drives Inverters - Support | Hitachi IESA

Contact Hitachi AC Variable Speed Drives Inverters support team with your questions regarding products and services. Here you will support information along with press and media contact information.

www.hitachi-iesa.com

• Application Note Sizing Three-Phase Inverters for Single Phase Power Applications

Although Hitachi does not offer inverters above 3 hp specifically sized and rated for single-phase operation, single-phase power can be safely used with larger 3-phase rated inverters, provided that care is taken to properly upsize and apply the inverter.
As background, for a given power (kW/hp) and voltage, the ratio of current for a single-
phase circuit will be 3 (1.732) times that of a three-phase circuit. This means that the input rectifier will see 1.732 times the current of the output devices. When powered by three-phase, these currents are nearly the same. This higher current would destroy the input of the drive if an oversized inverter were not used. Furthermore, full-wave rectified single-phase power has a much higher harmonic content than full-wave rectified three- phase power. This would introduce large ripple into the DC bus of the inverter, potentially causing other malfunctions. Larger size inverters have larger bus capacitors, thus more inherent filtering. So upsizing the drive ameliorates the ripple problem as well.
The rule of thumb Hitachi recommends is to start with the 3-phase motor’s nameplate full load amperage (FLA) rating and double it. Then select an inverter with this doubled continuous current rating. This will give adequate margin in the input rectifier bridge and bus capacitors to provide reliable performance. NOTE: Fusing or Circuit Breakers should be sized to match the INVERTER input current rating, NOT the motor current rating!

 

[bpwoodworking]

Thank you! This keeps my start/stop circuit fairly simple.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

@slodat see attached

 

[bpwoodworking]

I picked up a solid state relay to click on the oil pump. It’s a DIN rail mount relay, so should look clean.

 

[jar944]

I picked up a solid state relay to click on the oil pump. It’s a DIN rail mount relay, so should look clean.

Following.

I would like to get the integral motor brake functionality back on my casolin shaper and would need a similar setup.

 

[bpwoodworking]

I did that on my tablesaw and got the stop down to 2 seconds with up to a 5/8” set of dado blades using this

Powerohm Type CR Case Resistors CR200-150X-L24 150 OHMS/200W +/-5%

So I’m assuming for this setup I’ll need something fairly large to get it to stop fairly quickly.

 

[jar944]

I did that on my tablesaw and got the stop down to 2 seconds with up to a 5/8” set of dado blades using this

Powerohm Type CR Case Resistors CR200-150X-L24 150 OHMS/200W +/-5%

So I’m assuming for this setup I’ll need something fairly large to get it to stop fairly quickly.

Does the Martin have a electro mechanical brake? I think I have the deceleration ramp set to 20 seconds to keep the internal resistor from tripping the unit. Bigger heads certainly take more to stop.

It would be nice to get this working, and stopping reasonably quickly.

 

[manwithtools]

Following.

I would like to get the integral motor brake functionality back on my casolin shaper and would need a similar setup.

You could also look into dynamic breaking via the VFD. Might need too add an extremal breaking resistor, VFD manual should have sizing information. What VFD do you have?

 

[bpwoodworking]

I’m forgetting that it does have a foot brake, yeah I plan to hook that up.

No brake on the motor as far as I’m aware.

 

[bpwoodworking]

Up and running, now I need to wire in the controls and the oil pump.

It’s satisfying to rip out all of the **** installed a few owners ago in regard to the oil system. A hodgepodge as it were.

Question for you all. This relay has an input for one line, is it incorrect to install one line directly to the pump and only run one line through the relay?



Slow progress, but getting there.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Up and running, now I need to wire in the controls and the oil pump.

It’s satisfying to rip out all of the **** installed a few owners ago in regard to the oil system. A hodgepodge as it were.

Question for you all. This relay has an input for one line, is it incorrect to install one line directly to the pump and only run one line through the relay?

that's how almost all 120V switching is done in your house - neutral runs uninterrupted to the receptacle/appliance, hot runs through a SPST switch.

Usually, hot legs are all switched. two pole contactor in an AC, for example. but I've seen condensers where they wanted to save money and didn't (only interrupting one leg). switching the hots is arguably safer, because you don't have live voltage at a device that isn't operating (which could lead one to believe it's safe to touch).

next question, is that SSR rated for motor loads?

I also have a strong preference for labelling wires and terminal blocks. that way it's much easier to put a wire back where it belongs instead of playing "what's this do?" and you can also leave notes so you know something is hot at all times, or brings in power from another source.

 

[bpwoodworking]

That's what I was thinking as well, it seems strange to have anything hot at the motor until the switch is flipped. Perhaps I need another style of relay or two of these side by side.

I bought the relay through McMaster and they rated it by HP and amperage, so I assume it's GTG for use on this pump.

The rating for the relay is 20 amps @600v. The HP rating is 1/3HP @115v and 1HP @ 230v, both of which are significantly higher than the pumps motor size.

I'll go back and label everything once it's complete. I've wired up a few boxes and find that each time I end up moving things around to suit additions as I go and the labels need to move with them. I might shrink wrap numbers on the wires and put a chart on the door so that wire chasing is easy.

I also plan to run some wire ducts to keep the control wiring separate from the motor leads/supply wires.

All in all, a heck of a lot simpler than it was previously. It's a shame, as these box internals are a thing of beauty before someone digs into them. This one was complete with loose wires dangling, the machine body had the same feature.

 

[bpwoodworking]

u3b,

Confirmed your gut with one of my friends who does this type of work. He suggested a two pole relay that has a mount for attaching to a DIN rail.

Its an 'ice cube' style relay rather than the Solid state type I installed previously.

 

[Greg9504]

Its an 'ice cube' style relay rather than the Solid state type I installed previously.

If you go that route you should probably add a diode across the coil of the relay, or just make sure you buy one with it built in.

 

[bpwoodworking]

Thanks for the suggestion, I went ahead and bought one just now.

The relay is Automation direct unit 782-2c-24d
The holder is 782-2C-SKT
And the Diode AD-ASMD-250

 

[bpwoodworking]

I’m running into a hiccup in my plan here. I have the 3 wire switch working and I setup the additional push button for high speed but when I bring it up to speed the button does not hold and the speed returns to 60hz (1750rpm) immediately after letting go of the button.

Hitachi recommended a maintained button, but I worry that is problematic when setting up multiple speeds.

I am not sure if perhaps I’m just setting this up incorrectly and there is an easy solution.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I’m running into a hiccup in my plan here. I have the 3 wire switch working and I setup the additional push button for high speed but when I bring it up to speed the button does not hold and the speed returns to 60hz (1750rpm) immediately after letting go of the button.

Hitachi recommended a maintained button, but I worry that is problematic when setting up multiple speeds.

I am not sure if perhaps I’m just setting this up incorrectly and there is an easy solution.

have you considered a multi-position switch for speed selection instead of a button?

 

[bpwoodworking]

Looks like that might be the way to go.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

if you want a neat dive into what's going on with VFDs and motors, this video is great:

and if you didn't know, apparently there are VFD enthusiasts who build their own model VFDs so they can listen the awesome noises of classic VFDs:

 

[Hal]

My installation is a little different from most of yours. I replaced the two ancient furnace blowers that provided combustion air to my maple syrup evaporator. The new blower is a Dayton 1.5 Hp. unit specified by a manufacturer for their similarly sized evaporator. I upgraded the VFD to a WEGO washdown unit, which is way overkill as far as features. All I really need is on/off and speed control.

I got a friend of mine, who is a retired industrial electrician, to do the wiring. I told him, " I could wire it myself, but it would look like I had." The installation is all done with PVC conduit and rain tight/ liquid tight enclosures and connectors.

I had a little "oh ****" incident with this last night when I was almost ready to shut down. The blower gets shut off each time I open the firebox to add wood. I shut it off, added some more wood, and the motor didn't start again when I pushed the button. I'm thinking," Why now, when I'm already stressed out with strange weather, firewood shortage, and personal health problems?"
Am I going to have to get an electrician in here for emergency troubleshooting? Is the VFD dead and needs replacement?
Well it is an electronic computer controlled device, let's reboot it and see what happens. Shut down the power, waited half a minute, and turned it back on, punched the start button, and heard the blower start.
Now I am wondering if it was just a glitch, or if it will happen again, and mostly why did it happen?
My first thought is that the buttons on the touch pad may be getting tired. Maybe a loose connection somewhere?
I'm just crossing my fingers that it was a one-time fluke, and it won't happen again.

 

[bpwoodworking]

Was it displaying an error code?

 

[Hal]

No error code just the usual "rdY".
I ran it seven hours today with no problems.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

cosmic rays

 

[Hal]

I hope it keeps going all right. The thought of opening the ash door and running on natural draft makes me want to quit completely.

 

[Hal]

Not sure how I post three copies of the same photo. First time trying to post from my iPhone.