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Show your "Long C" Craftsman!

JoCoSawdust

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Drives: Yes the handles are indeed plastic. I'm fortunate in that none of mine are doing that funky deterioration thing and none of mine stink but I have ran across amber handles that are breaking down just like some of the old screwdrivers. Based on that I assume they're constructed of the same material. Despite the old advertising, they are NOT unbreakable.

Conversely, I've never seen an old Craftsman vise in person so I'm quite envious of that Long C one you've got there. There was recently a 5196 for sale locally but I couldn't get to it in time.
 
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drivesitfar

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JoCo: I also have one or two Craftsman vises made by Rock Island that you can keep your eye out for. I posted a picture of my 5196 body cause I had the handle out for cleaning along with some 516x's that i've owned and some i think I just had pictures of.

just in case you needed more incentive to find one cause either the Rock Island or Reed made Craftsman vises are very well made.
 

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Gear Wolf

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Added a 3/8 drive speed handle to the amber family. I believe my last missing piece is the 1/2 drive ratchet with the T-bar directional lever.

IMG_5783.jpg IMG_5784.jpg

Great collection!

You are close, but, believe it or not, there are actually 3 rare amber handles you will be missing even with the T-Bar.

You'll still need a 1/4" speeder and an 3/8" plus female "Longhead" ratchets to complete the entire amber handle collection. If you are going for what was found in the slightly more common Craftsman tools brochure from the 1940-1942, you're just about done. However, the rarer 1939 Craftsman brochure actually shows the "Longhead" 3/8" in it with the amber handle. The 1/4" speeder and female "Longhead" were never depicted.
 
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JoCoSawdust

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Gear Wolf: Thanks for pointing out the fact that the 39 cat depicts a Longhead 3/8. I had missed that somehow. Now that you mention the 1/4 speeder, I think somebody here in GJ has one, Rileysan perhaps? What's your opinion on the belief that amber handles were only offered as part of the sets? I tend to disagree and the 1/4" speeder reinforces that. Never depicted in any of the kits. Two different types of female 1/4" along with the 3/8 male drive rat. I think Sears would have been shooting themselves in the foot to only offer these drive tools in sets as the sets were VERY expensive for the time. I tend to believe individual pieces could have been available at retail locations.

A very unique amber handle 3/8 drive rat recently sold online. It was a standard Costello patent rat but the handle was very unique. More pear shaped than the standard amber handles, the color was truly amber, not yellow and it lacked the blue lines. Looked to me to be some sort of prototype (or possibly an ingenuous home-made job). It was listed as part of a bulk lot, I figured it'd go for more than I was willing to part with but it actually sold at a decent price.

Drives: Damn those are some nice vises! I'm venturing into PA this weekend, maybe I'll have better luck up there.
 

Private Lugnutz

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I'm waiting till Christmas to cross the Delaware Lugz!
Snerk. Very clever. Somebody knows their American history! :)

JoCo & LUG: so shipping is the only option cause no setting foot on other's sacred hunting grounds? :lol_hitti
An apt analogy, because there are only three things to be more protective of than my flea markets. One is my fishing holes. The second is my tree stand trees.
 

Rileysan

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Speaking of deer hunting, I saw a cougar last week. They are getting thick here since hunting with dogs was outlawed.

On your property or closer to Dallas? My SIL's family has property south of Dallas off KV Hwy and my 2-1/2 yo granddaughter spends 2 days a week out there. Makes me a little nervous!

Brian
 

JoCoSawdust

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I've been on a bit of a pre-war DP frenzy lately (5 in the last couple of months?). Happy to add this Atlas with the optional alienhead pulley cover. It's powered by a period-correct reversing motor.

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Provincial

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On your property or closer to Dallas? My SIL's family has property south of Dallas off KV Hwy and my 2-1/2 yo granddaughter spends 2 days a week out there. Makes me a little nervous!

Brian

This was near Pedee Creek about three miles from Pedee. Just off Ronco Road. A trail cam recorded one about 30 feet from the house where my two grandsons live about a year ago, which is 1-1/2 miles from my sighting. :shocking:
 

Smokeshow69

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I've been on a bit of a pre-war DP frenzy lately (5 in the last couple of months?). Happy to add this Atlas with the optional alienhead pulley cover. It's powered by a period-correct reversing motor.



IMG_5816.jpg IMG_5817.jpg



Was this picture posed to gain suckage? Mad suckage awarded for foreground and background props!


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Gear Wolf

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I do apologize for my aberrant tendencies of popping in and out around here. Time is always on a budget hahaha!

Anyway, the "amber handles" are a unique animal. Some believe they were made of butyl acetate and others thought it was Lucite. I did a chemical analysis on them about 5 years ago and found they were composed of cellulose acetate.

With a pretty simple extraction, you can create a plastic that has favorable properties for use in something like a plastic handle for a tool or even eye wear. For the technology and processes at the time, the molecule made sense to use as the possibilities of application were well understood, was easy to thermo-form/machine, and had a great longevity/durability to cost ratio.

Today, lower cost plastic handle screw drivers use butyl acetate, which is used in a variety of things from flavors, plastics, etc. It is easy to thermo-form and very cheap; however, without a stabilizer, it is prone to degradation from oxidation and sunlight. This is why they start to stink and become sticky/slimey, as they form a molecule, butyric acid, in your GI system. Since the "amber handle" Craftsman ratchets are not made of the same material, they do not deal with this problem. Had they been, based on my experiences with 80 year old butyl acetate, we would see fewer examples of Craftsman tools with their handles still around.


JoCo, honestly, I can only speculate what specifically was going on. A lot of the folks that would have been in the "know" about this are long gone. Some companies, such as Snap On, have strong connections to their history, having many original documents and various artifacts of their works. SK, for example, quite literally referred me to Alloy Artifacts, as that company has no archivists/historians or any focus on keeping information related to their past. Sears seems to follow suit in some regards. Conversations I have had with Sears reps today appear to reflect current or recent philosophies of distribution.

Since these sets were never offered directly in the Sears catalog and only via brochures that were intended for, yet not specifically exclusive to, the trades, my guess would be that, given their cost, these "amber handle" sets, initially, would have been directed to these audiences and not the general public. It is my belief that the only reason why these special sets were offered in 1942 at all was due to the fact that supplies were already made with the intention for sale that year. It is my belief that US entering WW2 was the reason why the "amber handle" program was killed off.

I think it is completely reasonable to believe that sometime around then the tool sets were available at stores or even individual pieces. Sears had done that in plenty of occasions over the last several decades that follows this philosophy, where catalog/brochure exclusives are liquidated at stores and no longer available via their previous means.

I did see that ratchet you mentioned. I do not think it was a prototype. I have run a few experiments on several poor condition "amber handle" tools. They are very susceptible to common organic solvents and inorganic salts that would be easily found in any garage, shop, or industrial setting. I have seen similar other examples analogous to the one you mentioned. If I had to guess, it is more likely that this specific piece was just more "traveled/seasoned" than others.
 

Username already in use

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Brought home this little ignition wrench this weekend. First one of these I've found. Sizes are 3/8" and 11/32".

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JoCoSawdust

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Gear Wolf: Thanks for the input, I always like to hear your opinions. Good to know the amber handles aren't going to rot away and stink!

UNAIU: Very cool ignition wrench. I have a nearly mint cloth roll up for those but can't find any of the wrenches to save my life.
 

JoCoSawdust

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Does anyone know what came in this case? Not mine but it's the second one I've seen and I can't find any catalog reference to it. Reminds me of a lazy mans version of the earlier box that held the C-series 1/2" drive-9/32" drive combo set. Perhaps 1/2" drive 12pts in the left section and 8pts in the right but then why all the extra room? Curious....

weird box.jpg
 

Rileysan

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Does anyone know what came in this case? Not mine but it's the second one I've seen and I can't find any catalog reference to it. Reminds me of a lazy mans version of the earlier box that held the C-series 1/2" drive-9/32" drive combo set. Perhaps 1/2" drive 12pts in the left section and 8pts in the right but then why all the extra room? Curious....

weird box.jpg

Scott has already seen my answer to this on FB but I'm going to respond here for the benefit of the GJ community.

I've only ever seen that once, and it was presented as something quite rare - a mixed 1/2" & 1/4" drive socket set. The seller who had it was selling off their collection on eBay and sold some genuinely rare stuff. I was able to acquire a few lots but not that particular set.

AFAIK, this set was not offered in the catalogs. If it was, it almost certainly did not have any illustrations to show the contents. I saved the images from the listing and present them here for comment.

I have no idea if this is the correct use of the box, or if the contents are complete. I'm only passing on something I encountered as a possible solution to the riddle.

The seller did some restoration work on both boxes - clear coat on the big box and repaint & re-label on the little box.

Brian
 

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Rileysan

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And since I was reminded of that eBay lot, I have something to show that I purchased from the aforementioned seller of Craftsman rarities:

1/4" drive socket set with unique long-C logo (unique to the socket boxes, that is).

Has anyone else seen this logo on a socket box? It's definitely used on other tools but this is a first for me.

Brian
 

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d42jeep

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I found this tubing cutter at a sale recently.
-Don
 

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Private Lugnutz

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If we had a pre-Craftsman thread, I would post this antique amps gauge there, but the Long C thread is the oldest Sears, Roebuck & Co thread we have, technically. Flea find this morning. Goes immediately in the lock-and-key cabinet with the other treasured trinkets! :)

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Rileysan

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The only one I own, unfortunately... 20191025_223321.jpg

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Now that you're aware of their existence, you'll be looking for them at every sale, flea market, and swap meet; following you home in twos and threes. Before long, you'll realize you're missing only one socket to complete a set and you'll start browsing eBay for one. Seeing great deals, you'll start bidding and winning, followed by more bidding and more winning. Before long, you'll have to find an era-correct box to put them all in. Then another. And another. You're screwed. Better run away while you still can!
 

d42jeep

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These are some of the tools I found at a garage sale Saturday. I thought that the Barcalo DOE on top bore a slight resemblance to the long C DOEs below it. The socket ended up being New Britain.
-Don
 

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Cgray

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What year do you guys figure this is?

I picked it up at an estate sell and took it apart, cleaned it and re greased it with red high heat axle grease.

Works great now.
 

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JoCoSawdust

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There's several variants of that ratchet out there but mid-30s to later 40s is the general time line. Not sure exactly when production ceased but they were still being sold into the late 1940s. Made by New Britain. I think it's a great rat, I use one quite regularly. Welcome to GJ.
 

JoCoSawdust

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Cgray: Welcome to early Craftsman confusion! I realize you got two different answers. Smokeshow may be correct, I'm answering off the top of my head. As I said in my first post to you, there's several variants to that ratchet, mostly involving the method of reversing direction, shape of the head etc. If you want to take a deep dive into it, I suggest you go to YouTube and punch in Craftsman Ratchet History BE and Circle H. Gear Wolf is the resident Craftsman ratchet expert here and he has a line of videos over there. Worth checking out.
 

r_olson_06

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What year do you guys figure this is?

I picked it up at an estate sell and took it apart, cleaned it and re greased it with red high heat axle grease.

Works great now.
That would be late 30s I believe.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrench 3061
 

d42jeep

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There is evidence that the wartime New Britain ratchets used the shorter control levers. I agree with Roy that yours is prewar.
-Don
 

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r_olson_06

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There is evidence that the wartime New Britain ratchets used the shorter control levers. I agree with Roy that yours is prewar.
-Don
Don I have never seen a selector like that one. That is wild.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrench 3061
 

d42jeep

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I believe that New Britain started using the short selector in ‘41 and quit selling them in the early ‘50s when they went to the Fors patent ratchet. Here is another of the ratchets with the short lever in my early ‘50s New Britain 1/2” drive set.
-Don
 

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Private Lugnutz

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There were actually three generations of that Costello patent ratchet in rapid succession.

- The earliest (patent filed in 1937, granted in July 1940) had the long lever with Frankenstein buttons through openings on either side of the handle, which was fully knurled.

- The next generation is what cgray has - long lever, open handle, fully knurled.

- The third generation is the wartime ratchet that Don is showing, short lever, three bands of knurling, with the ON/OFF marking near the lever, but note that it first appears in an October 1940 catalog, so it's also prewar, and a bit of a misnomer to only think of it as a wartime ratchet.

There are two other noteworthy production features with the Costello ratchets.

- Even though they experienced all these variants in short order, the patent never appears on the ratchet. All of them are PAT PEND! My theory, which empirical data overwhelmingly supports, is that NB never bothered changing the dies through all the rapid changes, the first of which (losing the Frankie buttons...) almost certainly occurred before the patent was even granted.

- Some of them have date codes forged in, ranging from Feb 43 (earliest reported) to Oct 46 (latest reported) based on my survey.

Much more elaboration and gnashing of teeth and many, many more examples of all three variants on the evolution of these ratchets in an older Outlaw thread I revived a few years ago, and then a survey I piggybacked on the end of it, linked here. (I just made a Note to Self to include it in the next iteration of the Sticky.)
 
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JoCoSawdust

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The different answers to Cgray's posting started making my left eye twitch so I've spent the evening refreshing my memory (and learning a few new things). What was gnawing on me was the designation of Cgray's ratchet as pre-war. Led me to question what Sears was selling during and after the war. Watching Gear Wolfs video, reviewing Outlaws thread about the patents and spending a stupid amount of time in the catalogs leads me to believe Cgrays ratchet ran from 1940 (advertised as "New, Improved Fingertip Control) till Sears dropped New Britain (with the weird exception of the Fors patent which to my knowledge never appears in any of the catalogs I have access to). Has anyone seen a Craftsman branded Costello ratchet with the short lever like Don posted? I can't find an example anywhere, all I see with the short lever are New Britain and None Better branded rats. As far as Costello variants wearing Craftsman brand all I'm seeing are the "T-bar" shifters in the late 30s and the long shift lever starting 1940. On one hand I'm hoping there's a Craftsman variant out there I knew nothing about, on the other hand I"m not as I'll go nuts trying to find one.
 
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