Spreading the Bonney affliction!

[Private Lugnutz]

All those pliers were made by J.P. Danielson, LS! (AA refers to that pattern as "herringbone".)

I think the pliers that say UTEE-Co are Utica. I have seen them with the "Utica, N.Y." address marking underneath the "UTEE-Co" marking. I have not seen this documented anywhere, but I have theorized that UTEE-Co was Utica's answer to Crescent's CEETEECO. Unaiu has a pair.

If you have a pair of CEETEECO pliers - literally marked CEETEECO - with a J.P. Danielson herringbone grip, I would love to see them.

Bonney must have been buying pliers from J.P. Danielson (your example), then Crescent (my example)! Yours are older than mine and the herringbone pattern is J.P. Danielson's wartime pattern. Prior to that they used a checkered pattern. I don't have any Bonney wartime pliers, so this is not something I have noted before. I think Unaiu has Bonney wartime pliers. Mabe he will chme in or he already has (on G503.com) and I just haven't taken note of the switch from J.P. Danielson to Crescent postwar. It makes sense now that I think about it, because Plomb bought J.P. Danielson in 1946, so Bonney would've had to go to another source.

I am trying to find the model number. Do you have to take out the pivot to see it?

The model numbers H25, H26, H28, and H210, for 5", 6", 8" and 10" pliers, respectively, are only found forged in on the handles near the pivot on Crescent's CEETEECO brand pliers, LS. And the model numbers G25, G26, G28, and G210, for 5", 6", 8", and 10" pliers, respectively, are only found forged-in on Crescent's MoToR KiT brand pliers. They are Crescent model numbers. They are visible without removing the pivot, but they are much more easily visible when disassembled. The suffixes (-4, -5, etc) you will find are all different and they are thought to be some kind of forge number.

 

[Magnum440d100]

Privatelugnutz, I believe the middle one is a ceeteeco

Not sure if it’s the herringbone grip(?)

I can get better pics if you want though.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

It is. I just posted one above and I have owned many. (A few years ago I discovered a reference to them in some WWII-era Willys-Overland factory documents from NARA, and they have been a popular Jeep toolkit item ever since, mainly because the other suppliers are harder to find.) It has the Crescent checker-dot pattern. I can see it from here. Thanks.

 

[Magnum440d100]

It is. I just posted one above and I have owned many. (A few years ago I discovered a reference to them in some WWII-era Willys-Overland factory documents from NARA, and they have been a popular Jeep toolkit item ever since, mainly because the other suppliers are harder to find.) It has the Crescent checker-dot pattern. I can see it from here. Thanks.

Here are more pics.

Looks like CeeTeeCo and then Jamestown New York under it.

What would the date be on this one (approximate)?

Thanks!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

1940's. See if it has the H26 on the handles as I just showed above. (But we really shouldn't distract too much from the Bonney topic of this thread.)

 

[Magnum440d100]

1940's. See if it has the H26 on the handles as I just showed above. (But we really shouldn't distract too much from the Bonney topic of this thread.)

This is what’s left of the stamping. It is very worn, since they were used by my grandfather and were in constant use by me up until just a few years ago. Oddly enough, they were not this rusty until just recently, when they stopped being used

Whoops. I did not mean to contribute to the derailment of this thread. I thought that they had a connection to Bonney for some reason. I am still learning tools and brand/interchangeability.

Carry on

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I thought that they had a connection to Bonney for some reason.

They do, sort of, in the sense that CeeTeeCo are made by Crescent and I just posted a pair of BONNEY B5 slip joints that were made by Crescent. (Same grip.)

 

[Mikeske]

This is what’s left of the stamping. It is very worn, since they were used by my grandfather and were in constant use by me up until just a few years ago. Oddly enough, they were not this rusty until just recently, when they stopped being used

Whoops. I did not mean to contribute to the derailment of this thread. I thought that they had a connection to Bonney for some reason. I am still learning tools and brand/interchangeability.

Carry on

I do not find it a derailment of the thread as it does fill in missing information and I am reading up on the information and what to look for when I find slip joint pliers. I do have some later Bonney slip joint pliers that look like they were Stanley made and then some pliers that are obviously Utica made with either the Utica name on them or Bonney.

 

[LesserSon]

Lugz! Thanks for the lesson.
“UTEE-Co”
I was too obtuse to see what was before my eyes.

 

[3baygarage]

How about some 1” drive extensions.

Almost comical next to the 1/4 sockets and 3/8 ratchet.

 

[RubiconJK]

How about some 1” drive extensions.

Almost comical next to the 1/4 sockets and 3/8 ratchet.

Ingots of Bonney!

 

[3baygarage]

Ingots of Bonney!

Well put.

They were supposed to be 3/4. I had some rats in mind to pair them up with. Now as for female 1”, have the Truth head with no handle, a Proto female with plug, not sure what else. Darn cool though.

Odd how they are the same part but different lengths. I can’t remember seeing a 1” female Bonney. Maybe they went to a T handle. Could somebody refresh my memory?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I don't have any Bonney wartime pliers, so this is not something I have noted before.

If you click here, a thread from just last year, you will find me showing off a pair of J.P. Danielson-made Bonney B15 pliers (with a side-cutter) with herringbone grips identified correctly by me as wartime. HAHA. ***** getting old!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

3bay - The only 1" drive stuff I have is Williams. Those Bonneys are even crazier looking as square shanks with a black oxide finish!

 

[3baygarage]

Thanks to a random accessible Tool Archives Catalog 41 PDF, marked 1941 on the back cover.

They did indeed go with a female sliding T head, and there was no ratchet in 1” at that time. These extensions may have come from a different year as they sure don’t look chromium plated.

 

[Machineman84]

Found this in one of my boxes

 

[Machineman84]

Haven’t made it to the pliers yet I need to make a path.


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[Machineman84]

It’s really thin here’s the other side

 

[Machineman84]

Nice extensions 3bay I’ve not seen many of the all square ones and none that big.


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[Private Lugnutz]

They did indeed go with a female sliding T head, and there was no ratchet in 1” at that time. These extensions may have come from a different year as they sure don’t look chromium plated.

I just went through all my Bonney catalogs. It's the same set, same design, same pieces, in 1933, 1939, 1941 (as you already know), 1946, and 1951. In 1957, they added the ratchet (X701). It's the 2-piece kind, with a sleeved ratchet head that slips on the end of a bar, with a lock ring holding the whole assembly in the head. Not all of the text references a finish, but when it does, it's chrome-plated. Could be both of your black oxide X29's are from WWII, or one is WWII, and one is later, with "industrial finish."

EDIT: Since they both have the "MADE IN U.S.A." vs just "U.S.A." COO marking, I think they are both WWII, just slightly different runs/stamping dies, maybe earlier and later. As for the length differences, I see the lengths of both extensions listed in the 1946 catalog as 8-1/2" (vs 9" in 1941) and 17-1/2" (versus 18" in 1941). That supports the idea they shortened the length during the war, maybe even to save a little steel.

That was my nice little first cup of coffee get-the-brain-box-juices-flowing research task for the morning!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Mm84,

That 823A with the embedded shield logo is an early (1920's to 1932) "check nut" (or locknut, as in tappet locknuts) wrench.

 

[3baygarage]

Thanks Lugz. Great early morning research.

Now that I look again, it may be that the 1941 cat page is describing only the sockets as Chromium. Anyhow, the length change to possibly conserve steel is interesting.

Was that ratchet from ‘57 a male with round head like those commonly seen in 3/4”? There is another pdf cat from 1967 at Internet Archive, and by then the 1” rat was a Herbrand style pear head.

 

[Machineman84]

Thanks lugnutz, I thought it looked old, I had to lightly wire wheel it so we could see what it was.


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[3baygarage]

Machineman, I half wonder if they are square so they didn’t roll off the bench onto someone’s foot!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Was that ratchet from ‘57 a male with round head like those commonly seen in 3/4”?

Yep, the entire ratchet line from 1/4" to 1" is, and the 3/4" and 1" look like the kind where the sleeved, reinforced head is detachable from the bar. The 1/4" to 1/2" are a one piece unit, as you would expect, with no reinforced head, and a more stylish beam and handle. As you know, I don't collect this era so excuse my ignorance if there is a common "nickname" for them.

EDIT: Oh, heck, here ya go.

Note: I have said this before in a conversation with LesserSon, but the Bonney 1957 catalog might be one of my all time favorite catalogs, of any mfgr. Which is ironic, because I don't really collect tools past the early 50's. The first time I ever opened it was to identify a later socket box I had found and my admiration was immediate and profound. As an engineer, I appreciate the perfect marriage of form and function in its design. Every page has "blueprint" like drawings at the top for each piece or type of tool (e.g., one socket), with figures and tables beneath for the dimensions of the variants of that piece (e.g., V6 through V16 for midget sockets with 3/16" to 1/2" service openings). It is a model of efficiency and elegance.

 

[Machineman84]

Lugnutz can you post catalog of v701 and v707, 1/4 drive ratchets.


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[Private Lugnutz]

I don't see a V707. V701 (as well as 3/8 dr T701) look exactly the same as A701, just smaller. V701 is 15/16 dia head, 5" OAL. T701 is 1-1/4" dia. head, 7-3/8" OAL.

 

[LesserSon]

The V707 is first introduced on p5 of the 1960 catalog, with a note that “Notice will be made from factory when available for shipment.” The T707 is introduced on p11, with the same note.
I think when rolling out a new design, it makes the most economical sense to start with the model that will generate the most sales revenue, which in that period was probably the 1/2dr. The number of steps is about the same for smaller rats, and miniaturizing the design probably translates to more quality control rejects, so despite using less material, 1/4dr and 3/8 dr were probably more expensive to manufacture than 1/2dr.
Edit- flawless logic, totally ignoring the facts. All three sizes in the 707 design came out in 1960.

 

[Machineman84]

I agree with the manufacturing, I don’t like making small parts myself.


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[LesserSon]

Oops, there I go again: speculating before scrutinizing. Somehow I thought Lugz had found the A707 in the 1957 cat.
The A707 is ALSO introduced in 1960 cat p19 with the same “factory” notice.
Screenshots...

 

[Machineman84]

Sweet catalog! I’d like to find one lol.


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[Private Lugnutz]

If Todd ever gets another incarnation of Tool Archives up and running again, everyone will have access to hundreds of catalogs again, including the 1957 Bonney, for free. Fingers crossed.

 

[Machineman84]

Found these pliers in the Kennedy box


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[Machineman84]

Grip pattern


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[Machineman84]

A large one also


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[Private Lugnutz]

Grip pattern

Utica.

 

[Machineman84]

And this thing


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[Mikeske]

This is my 7-10 Utica slip joint pliers with the grip pattern. This is from the early 1980's as faros I can determine. The final picture is of my pliers drawer with my hacksaw. Everything in it is Utica less the 2 tools on the right are Bonney and the hacksaw and the screw extractor set are Bonney

 

[bonneyman]

Yep, the entire ratchet line from 1/4" to 1" is, and the 3/4" and 1" look like the kind where the sleeved, reinforced head is detachable from the bar. The 1/4" to 1/2" are a one piece unit, as you would expect, with no reinforced head, and a more stylish beam and handle. As you know, I don't collect this era so excuse my ignorance if there is a common "nickname" for them.

No big problem there. I just name ratchets after what they remind me of. Helps when someone posts a ratchet that's slipping or stuck and they ask for internal pics.
I thought the "cross hair" selector of the Bonney rats looked like the marks in a gun scope. But the larger sizes are different, so, it might not be the best description.

 

[bonneyman]

This is my 7-10 Utica slip joint pliers with the grip pattern. This is from the early 1980's as faros I can determine. The final picture is of my pliers drawer with my hacksaw. Everything in it is Utica less the 2 tools on the right are Bonney and the hacksaw and the screw extractor set are Bonney

Nice drawer of tools!