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The Facom Tools Thread.

F-22

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F-22: what sizes are the wrenches you photographed? I’m guessing 8, 10, and 13 mm from the blurred text and because those sizes would make sense for most general purposes? (I’m wondering if the off-corner engagement is only on larger sizes or something, but I’ll have to check mine when there’s daylight.)

The off corner engagement was a newish thing when I bought the first of these No. 75 wrenches, so maybe Facom just went with the minimum that worked?


I used the 10mm again. I think there might actually be a very slight off-corner engagement design in it too. When new they seem to be painted so much that it fills up that area, and over time the paint will fall off and reveal it. I haven't used it much, but I think I just slightly see it now. Can't capture it well on a photo.

I have the 8, 10 and 13 (most useful sizes here). I also have a big 19mm Holex. Big wrenches in this style get really beefy, but nice and compact to use.
 
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dutchgray

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That looks like the current model.

Handles should be readily available from Facom.392D9CD7-99AC-42C5-B42F-64DC80552A5A.jpeg

Making your own is perfectly feasible, but to make a good job of it (and certainly if it was chrome plated) I think you would be in to more than Facom want!
I might buy one but I was going to take 4' or so of 25mm bar stock and make one on the lathe.
The ratchet cost me £40 brand new, there's plenty more on ebay for that if anyone wants one.
 
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Dave455

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I might buy one but I was going to take 4' or so of 25mm bar stock and make one on the lathe.
The ratchet cost me £40 brand new, there's plenty more on ebay for that if anyone wants one.

That’s a viable option.

I don’t use 1“ drive often, in fact the only tool I have is a 4’ breaker bar that I use on 3/4” drive sockets, but when I do I usually need a longer handle than most manufacturers supply!

If you go down the manufacture route, you can buy the detents as a unit which are a push fit.

If you go down the purchase route, then “Expert Toolstore” are an even cheaper source.B5A63DF9-DE9F-451A-92EC-7FB013DE0DA7.jpeg

Might be tempted by one of those ratchet units myself. I don’t have an immediate need, but £40 is very inexpensive for something that’s normally £200 plus, and buying stuff when it’s cheap is the way to do it.

Mind you, that sort of thinking for three generations is what got my place into the state it is!
 
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Samuel D

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I have no conceivable need for 1″-drive tools, but I looked up the specs on that M.151 for fun. The head is 73 mm across, 197 mm long, and weighs 2.1 kg. A 700 mm handle (M.126A) adds another 2.7 kg (and is probably still not long enough, as Dave455 says).

Stout! £40 feels cheap for 2.1 kg of Facom steel. It’s €236.53 at one of the NL web shops I use that generally has very good prices:

 

Fedwrench

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Does anyone recognize this made in France plier? I’ve never seen this type of adjustment mechanism. Ratchet close, like current Stanley pliers, but release with the well positioned button on the handle.

IMG_6801.jpegIMG_6802.jpeg
Looks like these BAHCO pliers :dunno:
 

Etchase

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Looks like these BAHCO pliers :dunno:


It sure does. Doesn’t look like they are made in France anymore. One picture from the UK global store clearly has them made in Spain. Other sources show no identified country of origin. I don’t think Bahco ever had a plant in France. Good find. Thank you.

IMG_6804.jpeg
 

neophyte

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It sure does. Doesn’t look like they are made in France anymore. One picture from the UK global store clearly has them made in Spain. Other sources show no identified country of origin. I don’t think Bahco ever had a plant in France. Good find. Thank you.

IMG_6804.jpeg
If I recall correctly, there was a French tool manufacturer that Bahco, or Snap-On Europe owned a percentage of.
I’m not sure whether the ownership stake came before or after Snap-On bought Bahco.
The yool manufacturer made items for Bahco, as well as for Facom, and maybe other French and European tool manufacturers and brands.
I’m not sure the current status of the manufacturer.
Forged items like metal snops and pliers were made by the manufacturer, as probably were stamped steel items like pruners and lighter weight snips, and maybe other items as well.
 

neophyte

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If I recall correctly, there was a French tool manufacturer that Bahco, or Snap-On Europe owned a percentage of.
I’m not sure whether the ownership stake came before or after Snap-On bought Bahco.
The yool manufacturer made items for Bahco, as well as for Facom, and maybe other French and European tool manufacturers and brands.
I’m not sure the current status of the manufacturer.
Forged items like metal snops and pliers were made by the manufacturer, as probably were stamped steel items like pruners and lighter weight snips, and maybe other items as well.
The French manufacturer seems to be or have been Pradines, which was owned by the Deville Group.
The Pradines brand went back to 1865.
Snap-On seems to have fully taken over the Pradines brand in 2021.
Deville Group also manufactures plastic and steel parts for the automotive industry, and still does, with just the tool division being purchased by Snap-On Europe/Bahco.

Snap-On Europe still seems to use the Pradines brand, at least in Europe.

Some of the Bahco tools Epstein Tools had were branded “Bahco Pradines”
Pradines is a “Commune” in France.
 

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F-22

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Those are very cool. Wish my Cobras were like that. Mechanism seems simple enough. But I guess the "pin" design of the Cobras is probably stronger/less play?
 

Steve_P

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Yes, it looks as though after forging (and maybe broaching) they gave them an extra pass on the surface grinder.

The result is a slim but also perfectly flat wrench, which you need in some applications.

The extra machining steps (as well as the lower volumes) account for these wrenches being historically slightly more expensive than standard.

Facom still manufacture this pattern, but I don’t know if the quality is as good as the originals.
66CF195B-D2CE-4DA6-83F9-56BFA3967461.jpeg


I have a metric set that's ~10 years old, and the quality is beautiful. The entire perimeter appears to be machined, not manually sanded, and the openings are broached. Not sure if they're still as nice today, but the ones I have are first class. The ones I have aren't stamped "France", but IIRC the package said the wrenches were French made and the pouch was made somewhere else, maybe Taiwan.
 
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Dave455

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I have a metric set that's ~10 years old, and the quality is beautiful. The entire perimeter appears to be machined, not manually sanded, and the openings are broached. Not sure if they're still as nice today, but the ones I have are first class. The ones I have aren't stamped "France", but IIRC the package said the wrenches were French made and the pouch was made somewhere else, maybe Taiwan.
If you bought them only 10 years ago, they are probably made in Taiwan. I don’t know when these particular tools switched, but all the wrenches I‘ve seen since the early 2000’s were made in Taiwan.

If they are not marked “France” then that pretty much confirms it.

I’m glad they had maintained the quality, at least then. These particular wrenches were always a bit special I thought.
 
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Dave455

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A friends recent purchase of some No.75 box wrenches gave me an opportunity to make a direct comparison between the original French made tools, and the current Taiwanese.

Top - my original French made tool, dating from the mid 1990’s if I recall correctly.

Bottom - a new, Taiwan made tool, purchased recently.

The finish on the original tool is a bit nicer, but in all other respects the tools are almost identical.
D010A09F-8924-441B-9A6C-FF76518E2868.jpeg
 

F-22

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Translation of the French Facom Wikipedia article:

Facom is a French tool brand, primarily present in Europe, founded in 1918 by engineer Louis Mosés. Its name is an acronym for "Franco-américaine de construction d'outillage mécanique" (Franco-American mechanical tool construction).
Facom was known for the robustness and warranty of its products among professionals in the maintenance of public works equipment, automotive repair, aeronautics, electricity, electronics, and industrial maintenance. Among the most representative product lines are wrenches, screwdrivers, ratchets and sockets, saws, hammers, toolboxes, mallets, and specialized tools for the automotive or aeronautic industries.
The brand is owned by Stanley Black & Decker and operated in France by Stanley Black & Decker France.
History
Beginnings: On May 8, 1918, Louis Mosés, an engineer from the Arts et Manufactures (former name of the École Centrale de Paris, now Centrale-Supélec), founded the Franco-American Mechanical Tool Construction Company (FACOM) with some family and friends. It specialized in hand tools. The name, chosen during World War I, reflects the popularity of the United States at that time, and the founder had spent part of his youth in Latin America, in Peru.
In the early years, FACOM operated in a workshop near the Gare de Lyon in the heart of Paris, where ten workers manufactured a new adjustable wrench called "Lachèze." The goal was to offer this unique tool to industrial mechanics and railway companies. In 1920, FACOM established a new forge in Gentilly (Val-de-Marne), and its product range expanded through contracts with Renault and Peugeot.
Development: During the interwar period, FACOM expanded its range of tools. The aviation market grew, leading to strong ties with Air France. By 1939, the catalog featured over 500 references. FACOM introduced its first logo, the "winged bolt," symbolizing the booming mechanical sectors of automotive and aeronautics. In 1937, chrome-plated keys were introduced, reflecting a luxurious image.
During World War II, FACOM managed to preserve its assets and industrial potential, as well as its workforce. André Mosès, the founder's son, joined the company, eventually becoming its president in 1945. Under his leadership, FACOM introduced innovations such as the first catalog, demonstration trucks, employee profit-sharing policies, financial control, and a lifetime warranty on tools (1952).
The post-war economic boom brought significant growth to FACOM, with a 13% average annual revenue increase during the "Trente Glorieuses." The company explored export markets in Northern Europe, the Mediterranean, South America, Southeast Asia, and Africa.
In 1956, FACOM expanded and relocated its facilities to Villeneuve-Le-Roi near Orly, with 460 employees. Philippe Zoummeroff, Louis Mosès' grandson, took over as director in 1958.
FACOM became the largest company in its sector in the 1960s. It established itself on the industrial site of Ezy-sur-Eure in 1967 and Nevers in 1974. The company went public on the Paris Stock Exchange in 1971.
From the 1970s onwards, FACOM expanded internationally, establishing subsidiaries in Belgium and Germany in the 1970s, followed by Italy (1971), the UK and the Netherlands (1977), Switzerland (1981), the US (1982), and Spain (1988). By 1983, FACOM became the leading European hand tool manufacturer (9% market share) and the third-largest globally.
Acquisitions: Over the years, FACOM integrated several companies, including Piolé (sheet metal), Bost (pliers), Garnache (screwdrivers), Virax (tube work tools), Dela (measurement), Mingori (bending), Britool (automotive and industrial tools), USAG (Italy's leading hand tool manufacturer), and SK Hand Tool Corp. (American clamping specialist).
From the 1990s, FACOM positioned itself as a multi-specialist, serving markets in mechanics, aeronautics, electricity, electronics, public works, construction, and automotive.
Acquisitions: In 1999, after a public takeover bid, Marc Ladreit de Lacharrière's holding company launched a surprise takeover of Strafor-Facom. FACOM then became part of the Fimalac group for 610 million euros. Due to factors such as low-priced imports from Asia, competition from American giants benefiting from the weak dollar, and the insufficient internationalization of the group, FACOM's profitability declined. In 2003, Fimalac implemented a restructuring plan, including the closure of the historic Villeneuve-le-Roi factory and the Hoffenburg site in Germany. On January 1, 2006, FACOM was sold by Fimalac to the American Stanley Works for 410 million euros.
In 2008, the FACOM catalog had 600,000 copies in 12 languages, with over 7,000 references across nearly 880 pages. It was distributed by 5,500 distributors worldwide.
In 2009, Black & Decker merged with Stanley Works, and the company became Stanley Black & Decker. On September 5, 2017, FACOM was absorbed by Stanley Black & Decker France and dissolved, generating 160 million euros in revenue, with almost 80% in France.
Centenary Celebration: For its centenary in 2018, FACOM celebrated at the Louvre. The company presented a major project, the "Facommunity," a 100% digital platform for FACOM enthusiasts, animated by personalities.
Continuation: In 2016, with support from Adar General Telecom Services, FACOM launched a range of mobile products designed to withstand extreme working conditions, including hybrid phones, tablets, and smartphones.
The FACOM brand is still used on basic tools (toolboxes, keys, screwdrivers, pliers) and ranges of power tools (impact wrenches, angle and torque adapters). Five of its nine factories are in France, including locations in Jura, Besançon, and Somme. France remains FACOM's primary market.
 
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3baygarage

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My father was a tech sargent/tank mechanic in Patton’s 3rd army during WW2 and he used this Facom metric socket set on US tanks even though it is metric. Many sockets can fit. I occasionally use it today.
Hello and beautiful set. Is the universal joint by chance numbered S.29? I found an unbranded mystery u joint with that number and thought it might be Facom.
 

Etchase

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Just got these insulated hard wire diagonal side cutters. I find the handles very comfortable. The inner portion of the orange handle is yellow. If you see the yellow the pliers are no longer safe. I hadn’t come across this system before.

IMG_7083.jpegIMG_7084.jpeg
 
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neophyte

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Just got these insulated hard wire diagonal side cutters. I find the handles very comfortable. The inner portion of the orange handle is yellow. If you see the yellow the pliers are no longer safe. I hadn’t come across this system before.

IMG_7083.jpegIMG_7084.jpeg
On insulated VDE 1000v tools, each separate layer of insulation has to be a different color.
There are 1000v insulated tools, were the insulation is one single layer, and there is no color differentiation.

Insulated Tools Ltd. (ITL) i. The UK actually molds their insulated handles out of nylon 11 directly over the tool handles.
There is just a single layer of insulation.
They claim the molded on nylon is more durable.
I believe in the USA the tools are sold as the Jameson brand.

As for dip insulated tools.
Nirmally the tools require multiple dips to get a properly thick layer of insulation, so they make the different layers different colors, but this also ads a safety factor.
In insulated tools I have seen that suffered impact damage, usually only one layer of insulation gets broken, making it obvious the tool is f@cked.

Those pliers appear to be the slightly newer series insulated Facom pliers, which use a slightly harder insulation than the older version.
 

Etchase

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On insulated VDE 1000v tools, each separate layer of insulation has to be a different color.
There are 1000v insulated tools, were the insulation is one single layer, and there is no color differentiation.

Insulated Tools Ltd. (ITL) i. The UK actually molds their insulated handles out of nylon 11 directly over the tool handles.
There is just a single layer of insulation.
They claim the molded on nylon is more durable.
I believe in the USA the tools are sold as the Jameson brand.

As for dip insulated tools.
Nirmally the tools require multiple dips to get a properly thick layer of insulation, so they make the different layers different colors, but this also ads a safety factor.
In insulated tools I have seen that suffered impact damage, usually only one layer of insulation gets broken, making it obvious the tool is f@cked.

Those pliers appear to be the slightly newer series insulated Facom pliers, which use a slightly harder insulation than the older version.


What do they do with the red and yellow molded handles? I’ve never seen an underlying color on those. All my other insulated tools have those handles.
 

neophyte

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What do they do with the red and yellow molded handles? I’ve never seen an underlying color on those. All my other insulated tools have those handles.
The molded 1000v grips on Knipex insulated tools may be considered “single layer” insulated, and not have the multilayer differences to show wear.
This video from ITL (insulated Tools Limited) shows a broken pair of knipex insulated grips, and there appears yo be just one layer.


ITL has another video showing pliers that may be Facom, or a similar build) being cut apart with a box cutter, although these may be the older softer PVC dipped insulation Facim used rather than the current insulation version.


The dipped insulated tools are usually considered the ones to use if you “have to” work on high voltage live lines.
The pre-molded slip on grips are usually listed as being for instances were you might accidentally come into contact with live line ghat you didn’t know was live.
At least, this was the way the tools were described by one manufacturer, although I forget which one now.

Most of my insulated tools are dipped versions from Knipex and Facom, although I do own some with ore-molded grips from Knipex and Bahco.
 

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Etchase

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The molded 1000v grips on Knipex insulated tools may be considered “single layer” insulated, and not have the multilayer differences to show wear.
This video from ITL (insulated Tools Limited) shows a broken pair of knipex insulated grips, and there appears yo be just one layer.


ITL has another video showing pliers that may be Facom, or a similar build) being cut apart with a box cutter, although these may be the older softer PVC dipped insulation Facim used rather than the current insulation version.


The dipped insulated tools are usually considered the ones to use if you “have to” work on high voltage live lines.
The pre-molded slip on grips are usually listed as being for instances were you might accidentally come into contact with live line ghat you didn’t know was live.
At least, this was the way the tools were described by one manufacturer, although I forget which one now.

Most of my insulated tools are dipped versions from Knipex and Facom, although I do own some with ore-molded grips from Knipex and Bahco.

Thanks! That was very informative.
 

Reed Prince

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I recently mentioned in another thread that while looking for the best combination slotted/pozi driver I had discovered and really liked the Felo E-Slim series. I was informed there that Facom makes excellent ones too, and so I decided to try to find some at a price that wasn't too dear. I offered this seller $40 and they accepted my offer. Seems like a good deal for USA.

Screenshot 2024-01-21 at 6.59.38 PM.png
 
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Dave455

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I recently mentioned in another thread that while looking for the best combination slotted/pozi driver I had discovered and really liked the Felo E-Slim series. I was informed there that Facom makes excellent ones too, and so I decided to try to find some at a price that wasn't too dear. I offered this seller $40 and they accepted my offer. Seems like a good deal for USA.

Screenshot 2024-01-21 at 6.59.38 PM.png
The Facom Borneo drivers are more expensive than their regular drivers, but in fairness they incorporate the combination head, as well as slim blades with flush insulation.

$40 seems reasonable.

They are made in France.
 

CGarage

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The Facom Borneo drivers are more expensive than their regular drivers, but in fairness they incorporate the combination head, as well as slim blades with flush insulation.

$40 seems reasonable.

They are made in France.


I bought a few in PoziDrive, Borneo series, for Ikea bookshelf tasks.
 

gsanvi

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Inspired by Dave455, I found a deal on those two Nano sets and bought them. One set is labeled USAG, but we know it’s the same. The tools are seriously good. The 1/4 ratchet has minimal play and wobble with a socket installed, it’s very smooth. The design of the cases is fantastic. Can’t wait to use them. My only complaint is with how the bits are labeled. They are stamped with tiny letters and it’s tough to read the markings. IMG_1674.jpeg
 

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Dave455

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Inspired by Dave455, I found a deal on those two Nano sets and bought them. One set is labeled USAG, but we know it’s the same. The tools are seriously good. The 1/4 ratchet has minimal play and wobble with a socket installed, it’s very smooth. The design of the cases is fantastic. Can’t wait to use them. My only complaint is with how the bits are labeled. They are stamped with tiny letters and it’s tough to read the markings. IMG_1674.jpeg
Congratulations! The tools are of excellent quality, and the boxes are incredibly innovative. Even now I don’t find better. When I see sets from other makers packed in space wasting generic boxes with foam liners I can’t help thinking how lazy they are!

Yes, essentially the USAG are the same sets, although they were a Facom concept originally.

At present I sometimes see the USAG versions at better prices (sometimes not) so I’d always go with the cheapest.

A word of caution though, some other USAG sets (below) seem to be of lower quality. These are easy to spot though.
A56450CF-D834-420B-9D17-DD5985B4B995.jpeg

Strangely, other USAG tools seem to be of slightly higher quality their Facom counterparts, such as these 285X wrenches, compared to the Facom 440XL.
45BF81D0-8EF5-46B4-B892-3900E97D6B66.jpeg

The Facom R.PE bit ratchet is about the best designed out there I think. Only when you use them do you fully realise how good the design is.
 

autobon7

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Inspired by Dave455, I found a deal on those two Nano sets and bought them. One set is labeled USAG, but we know it’s the same. The tools are seriously good. The 1/4 ratchet has minimal play and wobble with a socket installed, it’s very smooth. The design of the cases is fantastic. Can’t wait to use them. My only complaint is with how the bits are labeled. They are stamped with tiny letters and it’s tough to read the markings. IMG_1674.jpeg
Have been wanting one or the both of them for a good while now. Trouble is I don't NEED either one as I have other kits but have almost pulled the trigger a couple times. If only I could find a super amazing deal.
 

gsanvi

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Have been wanting one or the both of them for a good while now. Trouble is I don't NEED either one as I have other kits but have almost pulled the trigger a couple times. If only I could find a super amazing deal.
They seem to hold value quite well. I paid 90€ for the large set - I think it came from Amazon's returns stock. 46€ for the small one - the regular price is around 62€ where I live.
 
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Dave455

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Have been wanting one or the both of them for a good while now. Trouble is I don't NEED either one as I have other kits but have almost pulled the trigger a couple times. If only I could find a super amazing deal.
This was the logic I followed when I was first buying Facom.

I only bought the things I “needed” and missed the chance to buy some tools unavailable now.

My advice is to shop around for the best deal, and go for it. Where are you located?

I do find considerable variation in the pricing of these “nano“ sets, with some online dealers charging more than double what others are charging, for identical sets.

Bear in mind also, that the nano sets come with at least 5 different ratchet options, for otherwise similar sets. One or other may be cheaper at a particular time.
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autobon7

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This was the logic I followed when I was first buying Facom.

I only bought the things I “needed” and missed the chance to buy some tools unavailable now.

My advice is to shop around for the best deal, and go for it. Where are you located?

I do find considerable variation in the pricing of these “nano“ sets, with some online dealers charging more than double what others are charging, for identical sets.

Bear in mind also, that the nano sets come with at least 5 different ratchet options, for otherwise similar sets. One or other may be cheaper at a particular time.

Located in the Midwest USA. I have a nice assortment of Facom that I have accumulated over the years but have a tough time justifying buying things that I already have 1 or 2 of just different manufacturer.
 
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Dave455

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Located in the Midwest USA. I have a nice assortment of Facom that I have accumulated over the years but have a tough time justifying buying things that I already have 1 or 2 of just different manufacturer.
Had you been in Europe I might have pointed out some good deals, but I suspect the shipping kills ‘em.

For me, there’s no “buyers remorse” with Facom as for the most part it’s so reasonably priced.

I tend to buy the tools I want now. Even if I end up with duplicates, the old ones are always useful, but I know that’s easier said than done.
 
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