The Facom Tools Thread.

[Dave455]

Agreed! I've come back months later to say, yes, I took this Nano (and a big toolbag) on a trip recently and it seemed like every day something came up where I was into the Nano box. Changing the blower fan on an old Ford Econoline? Just the tools for that job! Removing the Econoline headlights for some wiring diagnosis? Yep. Disassembling a leaky outdoor sink with rubbery sleeve joints and a lot of hose clamps? Again. (My philosophy is, I will never go after a screw-type hose clamp with a screwdriver as long as a nut driver is available.) Remove the blocking plate to lower the spare tire on the Econoline? Somebody broke off the plastic tab-head and lost the trunk tool for that tab-head, too? But it's got a Torx T30 center bolt? Nano to the rescue!




(Okay, I also won't use a "bit" screwdriver when a real screwdriver is available, too. French-made sub-FACOM screwdriver shown.)

Glad it worked out for you!

Years back, my Dad bought a 1/4 drive set with a bit holder and bits (Japan made Kamasa for what it's worth). Nothing exotic, but he used it all the time - vehicle work, around the house, everything.

When I first saw the Nano sets I thought they were a good design as they had all the same needed tools, but in such a compact form.

Yes, great for travel.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

It's so you can inspect to make sure no sockets are missing.

Also DBOX = detection box; you can detect any missing part

 

[Squankum]

Also DBOX = detection box; you can detect any missing part

Heck, if the long extension isn't in there you can't even carry it!

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

192T.18UPE

It sure is a novelty, but ultimately too expensive to buy just for that, especially given the below issues.

Some points of interest from description and comments on some YouTube videos, and Amazon reviews:

• People complain about:
  • Elastic band to close
  • Jaws don't open far enough
  • Return spring too weak
  • Not as powerful as the Knipex TwinForce (180)
• There was an updated version with a built-in clip to keep it closed

From rough measuring some photos, it appears that the width between the jaw tips when fully open is ~7mm, compare with ~10mm for TwinForce.

Also "specifically created for automotive and industrial applications requiring repetitive and intensive cutting". So with that, the ergonomic design, and small jaw opening, perhaps we should look at it as "cut lot of small stuff comfortably" rather than "cut big stuff with some effort".

 

[richfinn]

The new GMA T.50 Hypercar comes with a Facom Toolkit (like it's Grandpa the McLaren F1), no fancy materials this time but pretty cool, briefly covered in the operators guide from DK Engineering

 

[Etchase]

Picked up another of these excellent sets. There are still a few of the craftsman v-series around, which have identical components except for the ratchets. I much prefer the lower tooth count FACOM ratchets.

 

[CGarage]

I have one in every car that goes on road trips…..with the rotator handle ratchet.

An excellent kit. And small form factor.

Half of the secret is the case!

 

[Hakeem]

Bought these off eBay. My first Facom tools. I am VERY impressed by the initial impressions .. impeccable broaching/forging, beautiful finish, comfortable in the hand. I appreciate the inclusion of two 3/4” wrenches, although I wish the 15/16” and the 7/8” sizes were on one wrench together.

Can’t wait to put these to use!

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

After some recent difficulties*, I have my eye on the OGV Grip tools - 441 wrenches and the GRP sockets.

Hard to justify a 8-19mm set of both for the occasional stuck thing, so maybe just the common sizes or even just the wrenches. But that feels like asking for trouble too.

In the other corner is the Knipex Cobra Raptor. One tool for 10-32mm. Bulkier head. Only self-locking for larger than 17mm.

Any thoughts or experiences?






(pictured in the wrong orientation for undoing that bolt!)

 

[pfbz]

After some recent difficulties*, I have my eye on the OGV Grip tools - 441 wrenches and the GRP sockets.

Hard to justify a 8-19mm set of both for the occasional stuck thing, so maybe just the common sizes or even just the wrenches. But that feels like asking for trouble too.

In the other corner is the Knipex Cobra. One tool for 10-32mm. Bulkier head. Only self-locking for larger than 17mm.

Any thoughts or experiences?






(pictured in the wrong orientation for undoing that bolt!)

I have the USAG 285 X/SE1 wrench set... I think the same as the Facom set but longer and they call it RBRT instead of OGV grip. Very nice wrenches. I ordered them from MrWorker in Italy, about $150 delivered. Not sure how tariffs and the end of the de minimus exemption might effect net pricing...

Also, I think that is a Knipex Raptor, not Cobra. They work well, but you need far more clearance to get one of them on a bolt than you need with a set of combo wrenches.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

Anyone care to share their experiences with Facom pliers? I was looking at changing most of my pliers at home (trying to get away from cars and focus on Vespa work, bicycle repairs, and home maintenance) and came across the MAC CST line that is forged in France. They look pretty nice and several of the sets would cover all my needs. I have a mix of NWS, Knipex, and Channellock for comparison.

 

[Etchase]

The pliers wrench is my go to. The ratcheting adjustment mechanism is nice, and eliminates my problems with the Knipex push button two hand operation. Proto sells the same one and might be cheaper.

 

[Dave455]

Anyone care to share their experiences with Facom pliers? I was looking at changing most of my pliers at home (trying to get away from cars and focus on Vespa work, bicycle repairs, and home maintenance) and came across the MAC CST line that is forged in France. They look pretty nice and several of the sets would cover all my needs. I have a mix of NWS, Knipex, and Channellock for comparison.

On the whole, very positive.

I bought these for my road box because I specifically wanted chrome plated, but without the oversize grips that the German chromed pliers always seem to come with.


And I have acquired these since.


Overall, they are superb. The designs are subtly more modern than a lot of German or U.S. tools. The comfort grips are not too big, or too soft, and the regular grips are slightly bigger and more durable than the usual dip coated.

The quality of manufacture is first class, as is the finishing. Not a lot to dislike really.

Not sure about the Mac branded ones. Some of the patterns are obviously more in line with American expectations, but the slip joint pliers shown are obviously cruder than the combination pliers shown above, yet will probably cost more?

I doubt they are trash, but I’d be reluctant to pay a premium over the Facom. I know Facom availability in the U.S. isn’t great though.

 

[KnurledNut]

Anyone care to share their experiences with Facom pliers? I was looking at changing most of my pliers at home (trying to get away from cars and focus on Vespa work, bicycle repairs, and home maintenance) and came across the MAC CST line that is forged in France. They look pretty nice and several of the sets would cover all my needs. I have a mix of NWS, Knipex, and Channellock for comparison.

The pliers wrench comes in Craftsman clothing at the tune of $35 on feebay. CMHT82250
The scale is SAE instead of MM on the Facom if that matters.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2866083635...rd=cmht82250&sacat=0&relatedSearch=true&pfm=0

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Also, I think that is a Knipex Raptor, not Cobra.

Ah, mixed them up. I do have Cobras but when it comes to brass they seem to chew up too much, making the situation worse even if I'm not going to reuse the fastener after removal.

I'm scratching my head a bit about the included sizes in the 441 8pc set, which are the same as for the 440 XL 8pc set: 8-10-13-14-15-16-17-19. So the non-standard 15mm is included, but not the 18mm for ISO M12. Anyone attempt an explanation of that?

 

[Dave455]

I'm scratching my head a bit about the included sizes in the 441 8pc set, which are the same as for the 440 XL 8pc set: 8-10-13-14-15-16-17-19. So the non-standard 15mm is included, but not the 18mm for ISO M12. Anyone attempt an explanation of that?

I never understood that either.

I wondered if they were thinking of the U.S. market where 15mm is sometimes found? It also occurred to me that some PSA engines use 15mm for the belt tensioner. But wouldn’t you include the ISO standard 18mm before the rarer 15mm?

And for the folks into JIS they have included 14mm, but not 12mm?

To quote Worzel Gummidge (a well known British philosopher) “I’m all confused!”

 

[Dave455]

I’m getting into tool rolls for mobile use. They are the quickest way to both organise, and protect, tools that get carried a lot. Even if they get carried in another box.

Picked up this Facom wrench roll to organise my 440 wrenches. Only nylon, but quite nice, reasonably strong, and not much money (equiv of about $13). Though I’m going to have to acquire a 21mm, and probably a 24mm, to satisfy those with OCD!


Some other bits to fill gaps in sets.

A No.41 wrench in 10mm (naturally). I quite like these.



Sadly a different generation (actually about three generations) from the rest of the set.


And a couple of screwdrivers (like I need more). I do like both square handles, and acetate handles, for general use.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Sets of 8, 8-19mm:

440 / 467B - omits 9, 15, 16, 18
440XL / 441 - omits 9, 11, 12, 18

They appear to think 15-16 are more important than 11-12 in longer wrenches, which I'd agree with for leverage - the reason the 440XL exists. Then maybe it just carried over to the 441 but leverage isn't the only reason for that model to exist.

 

[Dave455]

Sets of 8, 8-19mm:

440 / 467B - omits 9, 15, 16, 18
440XL / 441 - omits 9, 11, 12, 18

They appear to think 15-16 are more important than 11-12 in longer wrenches, which I'd agree with for leverage - the reason the 440XL exists. Then maybe it just carried over to the 441 but leverage isn't the only reason for that model to exist.

I sort of get that.

I’ve added a few XL wrenches to my road box and it’s usually the larger sizes that are needed, but as always it depends what you do. I use a short 22mm a lot away from base, for changing grinder tools.

One option is to buy the sizes you want, and add a wrench roll, as I did. Sadly though, those plastic holders are very well thought out, and it’s a shame not to utilise them.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

One option is to buy the sizes you want

Yep that's the approach I'm leading myself to. Some wrenches, some sockets, and a Raptor.

It's a bit of a tricky one as they're only needed occasionally, especially the less common sizes, but when you need one nothing else will much do.

 

[Dave455]

Yep that's the approach I'm leading myself to. Some wrenches, some sockets, and a Cobra.

It's a bit of a tricky one as they're only needed occasionally, especially the less common sizes, but when you need one nothing else will much do.

I bought the 440 wrenches to replace older (mostly French made) No.40 wrenches which had been in my road box for years.

Initially, I was only going to replace what I had, but with the 440 wrenches being so reasonably priced, adding the previously skipped sizes like 9 and 11 cost little.

Sometimes, when you are working away from base, you encounter unusual sizes more often, as you are not working on your own stuff.

Have you considered a pliers wrench?

I still carry an adjustable wrench in my mobile kit. Really couldn’t do without it. If not for automotive tasks, then for general stuff like working on air lines or changing gas cylinders.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Sometimes, when you are working away from base, you encounter unusual sizes more often, as you are not working on your own stuff.

Indeed. I was thinking but forgot to mention, when I encounter stuck fasteners it's usually on equipment or property that isn't my own.

Have you considered a pliers wrench?

I have a 250 and 150. Under high force they pull my hand apart, and the hand position required to attempt counteracting this is often not conductive to applying high rotational force, nor keeping knuckles out of harm's way. Hence looking at the Raptor. I also have Cobras but as I mentioned they chew stuff making the situation worse.

I still carry an adjustable wrench in my mobile kit.

I have a 6" Lobtex with X-Grip three side contact. The only really good adjustable I've ever had. Handle a little narrow for comfortable big force. Next size up is 8".

 

[Dave455]

Indeed. I was thinking but forgot to mention, when I encounter stuck fasteners it's usually on equipment or property that isn't my own.

Yes, I drove for about an hour once, to help repair and drive home a Nissan Micra a friend had bought for his son. Despite packing a load of tools, I didn’t have the 22mm socket needed to change the wheel.

Made me think more, and I ended up adding some tools to those I usually carried, to make a more general purpose road box.

Thought a lot about manufacturers too. Didn’t want to carry a load of Snap On (just too nickable if anybody noticed) but didn’t want crappy stuff either, hence have ended up with a lot of Facom.

I understand the guys who end up with those “no skips” Tekton sets for mobile use.

I have a 250 and 150. Under high force they pull my hand apart, and the hand position required to attempt counteracting this is often not conductive to applying high rotational force, nor keeping knuckles out of harm's way. Hence looking at the Raptor. I also have Cobras but as I mentioned they chew stuff making the situation worse.

The Cobras are more for round stuff, but the teeth will dig in. I sometimes find them useful for gripping flat or squareish stuff where you need a lot of leverage.

I have a 6" Lobtex with X-Grip three side contact. The only really good adjustable I've ever had. Handle a little narrow for comfortable big force. Next size up is 8".

Although this is a Facom thread, I have to admit that I think the Japanese make about the best adjustables at the moment.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

One option is to buy the sizes you want, and add a wrench roll

I now have just that in the post. Stumbled upon a small shop selling a bundle with a roll, and with an eBay discount it was a good price.

8-10-13-14-16-17, so effectively the 8pc set without 15 and 19. I was only after 8-10-13-17 anyway and this wasn't much more than buying those individually.

As they're 6 point and long, going to get some of the sockets too. Unfortunately they only do 1/4" and 1/2", although 3/8" is available in the US as Mac RBRT.

 

[Etchase]

Presents what type of ratchets will fit in the 1/4 kit. They sell a version with the rotator ratchet, so I’m not sure why his didn’t fit. Maybe they modify the box?

 

[lu787a]

Presents what type of ratchets will fit in the 1/4 kit. They sell a version with the rotator ratchet, so I’m not sure why his didn’t fit. Maybe they modify the box?

Appreciate you posting this. This channel has lots of cool stuff. The ratchet back drag tests are interesting.

 

[Dave455]

Presents what type of ratchets will fit in the 1/4 kit. They sell a version with the rotator ratchet, so I’m not sure why his didn’t fit. Maybe they modify the box?

Yes, if you look closely there is a piece of plastic that snaps in where the ratchet is located.

They can switch this depending on the ratchet supplied.

Still the best designed set packaging out there!

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

To expand on my post in the arrivals thread...

Facom 441 XL OGV Grip wrenches
These have a special design on both ends to better grip damaged fasteners, and are also fine for normal use although they are 6 point. Comparison of the 17mm on such a fastener shows the ring end has about half the rotational play of the standard 440, but the open end actually has half more. Also known as I believe Mac RBRT, USAG X-Grip, and Craftsman Overdrive.

Rotational play test (mm) at 15cm (6") on a lightly damaged 17mm brass fitting:

	440 (OGV, 12pt)	441 XL OGV Grip (6pt)
Ring end	10	6
Open end, tightening	12	20
Open end, loosening	13	23

Notice that the open end is oriented differently on the 440 vs. 441 relative to the angle direction of the ring end. I believe this is to complement the limited positions available on the 6pt ring end for use around obstacles, specifically in the loosening direction. It does seem to work out that way in practice.

 

[Chefjpd]

Vacationing in Paris, stopped by Castorama for my Facom fix

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

So the non-standard 15mm is included, but not the 18mm for ISO M12.

Correction - 15mm is standard for M10 flange nuts in ISO and DIN.

That explains the rear axle nut on one of my bicycles.

 

[f121]

Correction - 15mm is standard for M10 flange nuts in ISO and DIN.

That explains the rear axle nut on one of my bicycles.

Saw a couple of 15mm flange nuts holding a Porsche diff mount on this week.

 

[CGarage]

Vacationing in Paris, stopped by Castorama for my Facom fix

Chef, waiting for you to model those socks!

C’est Magnifique!!!

 

[Etchase]

I verified the Craftsman v-Series was identical to the Facom both visually and with a caliper, except for the ratchets and a small difference in the spinner. The Craftsman spinner is about an 1/8 inch longer, and has a uniform cross section from the anvil to the handle. This may be because my Facom is older?
I substituted a made in France Proto palm control ratchet which fits great in this kit into the Craftsman labeled set.

 

[Dave455]

I verified the Craftsman v-Series was identical to the Facom both visually and with a caliper, except for the ratchets and a small difference in the spinner. The Craftsman spinner is about an 1/8 inch longer, and has a uniform cross section from the anvil to the handle. This may be because my Facom is older?
I substituted a made in France Proto palm control ratchet which fits great in this kit into the Craftsman labeled set.

I reckon that those Craftsman V series sets have got to be the deal of the decade, although it’s interesting that the spinner handle is different. The one in my Facom set is made in France, I wonder if they have substituted one that is made elsewhere, or made from parts made elsewhere?

The ratchet that you have substituted (basically a Facom “palm control”) is one of the best out there!

Enjoy!

 

[four.cycle]

^ If I am not mistaken, the Proto J4752F is manufactured in Italy.
Exceptionally nice little piece of machinery when properly lubricated.

 

[Fedwrench]

^ If I am not mistaken, the Proto J4752F is manufactured in Italy.
Exceptionally nice little piece of machinery when properly lubricated.

You are correct, proto round head palm control ratchets are made in Italy. COO isn't stamped in the ratchet. The made in Italy is on the part number sticker stuck to the plastic bag the ratchet comes in when new. Great ratchets!! Although, I find the 1/4 version pretty thick headed.

 

[KnurledNut]

You are correct, proto round head palm control ratchets are made in Italy. COO isn't stamped in the ratchet. The made in Italy is on the part number sticker stuck to the plastic bag the ratchet comes in when new. Great ratchets!! Although, I find the 1/4 version pretty thick headed.

Mine was the same way.

 

[Dave455]

^ If I am not mistaken, the Proto J4752F is manufactured in Italy.
Exceptionally nice little piece of machinery when properly lubricated.

Yes, made in Italy now (in the Usag factory) but a French design and made in France originally.

The quality of the French and Italian tools seems comparable.

 

[Etchase]

I thought I bought that in the late 80’s early 90’s, but my memory is pretty unreliable when it comes to tool purchases, and I’m not sure that’s the right ratchet either. Did Proto source Facom ratchets before 2005?

 

[Etchase]

I’m way off. I checked a 1997 catalog and Proto was still selling the 4752A dual pawl round head. No sign of a palm control in that catalog.