The Facom Tools Thread.

[Chim]

I was really glad to find this thread - I’m a big Facom fan and got started with them when I was living in Europe and they were one of the earlier manufacturers to get on board with tool control foam trays and drawer organization. And at the time they were easier to buy than Hazet or other euro brands marketed mainly to pros. One of the things I’ve done is built this “half cabinet” roller 4-Draper chest that easily rolls around the shop and satisfies most of my needs when I’m doing simple maintenance. The bottom drawl contains a drill, electric impact, and tire changing tools.

 

[Etchase]

I reckon that those Craftsman V series sets have got to be the deal of the decade, although it’s interesting that the spinner handle is different. The one in my Facom set is made in France, I wonder if they have substituted one that is made elsewhere, or made from parts made elsewhere?

The ratchet that you have substituted (basically a Facom “palm control”) is one of the best out there!

Enjoy!

My package indicated the whole kit was made in Taiwan, so not a French made spinner.

 

[Dave455]

My package indicated the whole kit was made in Taiwan, so not a French made spinner.

I din’t know how the rules take account of sets with parts from different countries.

My “Nano” set has an Italian ratchet, French spinner handle and Taiwan sockets.

 

[Dave455]

Last year I bought a Facom 1/2” drive set on a deal. This one. Didn’t need another 1/2“ drive set, and didn’t really want more 12 point sockets, but couldn’t refuse the price!



Like many European sets, it only came with a regular length ratchet, inadequate leverage for the sockets included.

So I recently treated myself to an S.154 long ratchet to add to the box.

Absolutely lovely tool.

This pattern dates back many years.

The design is fine tooth and the finish matte, but a very fine matte, almost a satin.

The design was sort of superseded by the “palm control” series (both are shown below, in 3/8 drive) which had the free wheeling pad, a polished finish, a different grip, and a slightly finer mechanism.


But Facom kept the originals in production, and I’m very glad. I think that both the mechanism and the finish have had a bit of an upgrade, compared to the older examples, and the result is a rugged ratchet with a very smooth mechanism, for a very reasonable price.

I paid the equivalent of just $56 for this, delivered. A comparable Snap On would currently cost me the equivalent of $266

Made in Italy.

 

[CGarage]

I too, have a S154 long handle 1/2” drive. I seem to recall paying US equivalent of $68 for it in France.

The best part for me is it is user rebuildable. I place a high value on that.

 

[Dave455]

I too, have a S154 long handle 1/2” drive. I seem to recall paying US equivalent of $68 for it in France.

The best part for me is it is user rebuildable. I place a high value on that.

I’ve already pressed mine into service.

In fact, I’m not sure it’s going to get added to the set I intended. It’s just so nice to use, and too useful!

That was probably a very fair price you paid. The one I got was a pretty good deal, and I quote prices without tax, as most readers are in the U.S.

Full disclosure here, I do own several Snap On Dual 80’s in 1/2” drive. And I think they are probably the overall best 1/2” drive ratchets out there. Fantastic tools when I’m working at base.

But with the value / stealability of Snap On at present, do I feel comfortable with a $266 ratchet riding around in the back of my daily driver (which I think the Facom might)? Not really.

Do I feel comfortable using a using a $266 ratchet underneath a car that has the front end supported on logs, bashing the handle on tarmac, because I don’t really have the vehicle high enough? Probably not.

Overall very happy with the Facom. Certainly for my “real world” uses.

 

[Etchase]

Picked up a NOS insulated screwdriver set. I like the ergotwist handles for lower torque situations like electrical.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

I’m getting into tool rolls for mobile use. They are the quickest way to both organise, and protect, tools that get carried a lot. Even if they get carried in another box.

Picked up this Facom wrench roll to organise my 440 wrenches.

Having been reminded of tool rolls by the free no frills roll the seller of my 441s chucked in, I'd highly recommend the plastic case for 440s -they're available to buy empty, e.g. Facom CK.440J2.

Main thing for me is the space rolls take when laid out for use.

 

[NightSky]

^ If I am not mistaken, the Proto J4752F is manufactured in Italy.
Exceptionally nice little piece of machinery when properly lubricated.

I purchased the Proto J4752F recently and am somewhat disappointed with it for a couple of reasons. First, it has significant back drag. Maybe this can be improved with the proper lubrication. As received, it is lubricated with a gray grease (moly?) What other lubrication is suggested? Interestingly, the info paper included with it suggests lubricating with oil, not grease.
Second reason for disappointment is that the ratchet cavity is significantly off center. This should be obvious in the front & back pics below.

 

[KnurledNut]

I purchased the Proto J4752F recently and am somewhat disappointed with it for a couple of reasons. First, it has significant back drag. Maybe this can be improved with the proper lubrication. As received, it is lubricated with a gray grease (moly?) What other lubrication is suggested? Interestingly, the info paper included with it suggests lubricating with oil, not grease.
Second reason for disappointment is that the ratchet cavity is significantly off center. This should be obvious in the front & back pics below.

Yikes. Thats clearly a Friday ratchet.

 

[willhollin]

Facom CDX socket I bought over 20 years ago.

3/8" size with the strength of 1/2" was the selling point I believe. Not sure they are in production anymore, all French made in this set.

Sockets can also be used on a standard 3/8" square drive ratchet.

 

[3baygarage]

Neat. I've never seen those.

 

[Dave455]

I purchased the Proto J4752F recently and am somewhat disappointed with it for a couple of reasons. First, it has significant back drag. Maybe this can be improved with the proper lubrication. As received, it is lubricated with a gray grease (moly?) What other lubrication is suggested? Interestingly, the info paper included with it suggests lubricating with oil, not grease.
Second reason for disappointment is that the ratchet cavity is significantly off center. This should be obvious in the front & back pics below.

I have a number of that style of ratchet, albeit all Facom, rather than Proto.

I think the accepted wisdom here (which I agree with) is that coarse tooth ratchet’s need grease, and fine tooth need oil. I only ever had one of my Facom ratchet’s (3/8” drive) apart. I re lubed it with light oil and it has been fine. I don’t remember seeing any evidence of grease.

The off centre broaching is unacceptable. I have never experienced that and I would return it. My only comment, is that all my ratchet’s are Facom, rather than Proto.

Historically, Facom have had very good quality control, and I have never received a bad Facom anything. However, I have always thought the same with regard to Proto.

 

[Dave455]

Facom CDX socket I bought over 20 years ago.

3/8" size with the strength of 1/2" was the selling point I believe. Not sure they are in production anymore, all French made in this set.

Sockets can also be used on a standard 3/8" square drive ratchet.

I loved the CDX design. I didn’t buy any, because I thought the concept was doomed, but I rather regret that now.

They say you never regret the things you didn’t buy, but that’s total bull! Most of my regrets concern things I didn’t buy, from the all original Triumph Speed Twin to the Facom CDX!

 

[Hakeem]

I purchased the Proto J4752F recently and am somewhat disappointed with it for a couple of reasons. First, it has significant back drag. Maybe this can be improved with the proper lubrication. As received, it is lubricated with a gray grease (moly?) What other lubrication is suggested? Interestingly, the info paper included with it suggests lubricating with oil, not grease.
Second reason for disappointment is that the ratchet cavity is significantly off center. This should be obvious in the front & back pics below.

Ehh I don’t really see the big deal. Sure, it’s a little off center but I’d imagine the function is unaffected.

 

[four.cycle]

^ Personally I'm not that picky... I never understood why that would be such a big deal. If the tool performs properly, it performs properly. That's all that matters.

And don't put "grease" in that ratchet. Just OIL. The lighter the better. I use MMO or 3-in-One oil on those later production models - they're not designed for heavier lubricants.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

I think it's unacceptable, unless the price is discounted specifically on account of the fault.

Also, tool brands will take advantage if they find we consumers will accept this sort of thing.

 

[Etchase]

The Facom heart spring ratchets use to come with grease that solidified over the years and needed to be completely cleaned off. I haven’t bought a used one in a while, but I remember it being brown. Makes for low prices on non-working ratchets at garage sales. I leave the surface between the pawl and the anvil dry. Even oil can cause stiction and Jo-blocking at that location, which affects function and back drag. I measure backdrag around 4 to 6 ounce-inches, which I find totally acceptable. I wouldn’t return that tool for the off center broach. It’s a larger than life photo on my phone, so it’s hard to tell how far off it is, but it’s a broach in a forged and then polished handle, so I find a pretty large tolerance acceptable. I wouldn’t want to pay more to keep it tighter. It has no effect on performance. What tolerance would those who think it’s defective want to see?

 

[NightSky]

Facom CDX socket I bought over 20 years ago.

3/8" size with the strength of 1/2" was the selling point I believe. Not sure they are in production anymore, all French made in this set.

Sockets can also be used on a standard 3/8" square drive ratchet.

Do the 8 - 15 mm sockets have the same spline drive?

 

[willhollin]

Yes, all the same.

I have a larger 12 point set, can't quite remember what sizes it includes.

 

[NightSky]

^ Personally I'm not that picky... I never understood why that would be such a big deal. If the tool performs properly, it performs properly. That's all that matters.

And don't put "grease" in that ratchet. Just OIL. The lighter the better. I use MMO or 3-in-One oil on those later production models - they're not designed for heavier lubricants.

Here are a couple of pics to show the factory lubrication.

The Facom heart spring ratchets use to come with grease that solidified over the years and needed to be completely cleaned off. I haven’t bought a used one in a while, but I remember it being brown. Makes for low prices on non-working ratchets at garage sales. I leave the surface between the pawl and the anvil dry. Even oil can cause stiction and Jo-blocking at that location, which affects function and back drag. I measure backdrag around 4 to 6 ounce-inches, which I find totally acceptable. I wouldn’t return that tool for the off center broach. It’s a larger than life photo on my phone, so it’s hard to tell how far off it is, but it’s a broach in a forged and then polished handle, so I find a pretty large tolerance acceptable. I wouldn’t want to pay more to keep it tighter. It has no effect on performance. What tolerance would those who think it’s defective want to see?

I would judge the broaching to be off by about 0.03 in or 0.75 mm.

I don't have a means to measure backdrag, however, locking it to a Wera Zyklop mini ratchet so that backdrag is pitted against backdrag, the Wera has significantly less backdrag. Probably an unfair comparison but it's the best test I can come up with.

Should I expect that replacing the grease with oil will significantly improve the backdrag? How about Hoppe's #9 oil for this use?

 

[Etchase]

^ lots of oils work. SuperLube, mystery oil, gun oils. I don’t see a difference in performance. I don’t think I’ve ever seen more than a 1-2 ounce-inch change between dry and lubed, but I could be doing something wrong. The heart spring ratchets aren’t the lowest backdrag, but perfectly acceptable to me. If I wanted less for some unknown reason the classic proto pear heads are very low, maybe 2-4 ounce-inches. I don’t have that Wera ratchet.

 

[silkman]

I think they would put something thick, probably MOS grease in their ratchets, at least thats what was in their ratchet service kits.

EDIT: They say its graphite grease in the video.

 

[Fedwrench]

I think they would put something thick, probably MOS grease in their ratchets, at least thats what was in their ratchet service kits.

EDIT: They say its graphite grease in the video.

That's the downfall for those ratchets, the factory grease. I've seen countless FACOM/USAG/Proto round head Palm control ratchets screwed up from the factory grease drying out and becoming hard probably from lack of use. I've seen those ratchets work best with your favorite (fill in the name here) thin oil. Ratchet lube here has always been a personal choice.

 

[dscheidt]

I have a heart spring 1/2” ratchet I got in an sae set about 25 years ago. I pulled it out a couple years ago, after not using it for at least a decade. It was frozen solid. I had to scrape the grease out, brake cleaner didn’t touch it.

 

[KnurledNut]

Ehh I don’t really see the big deal. Sure, it’s a little off center but I’d imagine the function is unaffected.

^ Personally I'm not that picky... I never understood why that would be such a big deal. If the tool performs properly, it performs properly. That's all that matters.

Agree that it won't affect function and I don't think anyone is calling it a big deal.
But if I paid $50 for that, I would be disappointed.
Heck, if I paid $5 at a swap meet, I would still be disappointed.

I would reach out to Proto and let QA know. Mistakes happen and customer feedback is important in manufacturing.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

I wondered if they were thinking of the U.S. market where 15mm is sometimes found? It also occurred to me that some PSA engines use 15mm for the belt tensioner. But wouldn’t you include the ISO standard 18mm before the rarer 15mm?

And for the folks into JIS they have included 14mm, but not 12mm?

Turns out it's to do with which sizes of the 440 XL are available, rather than selection to make a set.

440 XL only comes in 8 sizes (all included in the set): 8-10-13-14-15-16-17-19 (no 9-11-12, or 18 for ISO M12)
441 comes in 14 sizes: 7-19 without skips, and 22 (no 20 non-standard, or 21 for ISO M14)

Who knows why about the absent models. But it seems likely the reasoning for the 441 8pc set selection was simply wanting to reuse the case.

 

[CGarage]

I have a number of that style of ratchet, albeit all Facom, rather than Proto.

I think the accepted wisdom here (which I agree with) is that coarse tooth ratchet’s need grease, and fine tooth need oil. I only ever had one of my Facom ratchet’s (3/8” drive) apart. I re lubed it with light oil and it has been fine. I don’t remember seeing any evidence of grease.

The off centre broaching is unacceptable. I have never experienced that and I would return it. My only comment, is that all my ratchet’s are Facom, rather than Proto.

Historically, Facom have had very good quality control, and I have never received a bad Facom anything. However, I have always thought the same with regard to Proto.

Agree on all points as always.

My new Facom ratchet + socket sets purchased new 20-30 years ago had evidence of a white lithium paste type grease on the palm-control ratchets. How do I know this? I had never used one of the ratchets and the grease had hardened, causing the ratchet to spin freely and not engage. Solution: disassemble, clean, use light oil, re-assemble. I recall I used a mixture of synthetic ATF mixed with a 20W50 synthetic oil.
Ratchet was brand new from Facom, but had sat around for decades unused in its case.

I have never received a bad Facom anything, either. I think the quality control is exceptional.

I never liked Proto ratchets personally. I think the designs are behind the times. The sockets and extensions are great quality and I like Proto, but I think better ratchets exist on the market for equivalent or less cost.

 

[CGarage]

That's the downfall for those ratchets, the factory grease. I've seen countless FACOM/USAG/Proto round head Palm control ratchets screwed up from the factory grease drying out and becoming hard probably from lack of use. I've seen those ratchets work best with your favorite (fill in the name here) thin oil. Ratchet lube here has always been a personal choice.

This happened to me. See above post.
The factory grease used was a white lithium type paste that seems to thicken / harden with time.

 

[CGarage]

^ lots of oils work. SuperLube, mystery oil, gun oils. I don’t see a difference in performance. I don’t think I’ve ever seen more than a 1-2 ounce-inch change between dry and lubed, but I could be doing something wrong. The heart spring ratchets aren’t the lowest backdrag, but perfectly acceptable to me. If I wanted less for some unknown reason the classic proto pear heads are very low, maybe 2-4 ounce-inches. I don’t have that Wera ratchet.

At least as far as feel, the SuperLube silicone I think is the superior choice if given the option.
I have tried all sorts of synthetic oils and ATFs and gun oils and I get the best “feel” with the silicone SuperLube product. I think Snap-On was on to something when they began to recommend using it.

 

[Hannahranga]

(pictured in the wrong orientation for undoing that bolt!)

I'm sure they're just tightening it up

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

A quick glance at what’s available reveals the following, though I’ve almost certainly missed some -

441 Long combination OGV grip (6pt)
51B/BS Slogging
54A Heavy duty offset ring

Without getting into ratcheting and high voltage.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

The 55 Double offset ring end range has a lot of options, and some of them are pretty curious. 31 double ended models to cover 6-34mm, and then more to go up to 50mm.

11x13
13x15
27x32

Ideal for someone no doubt. Everything else seems to have some explanation like being sequential/semi-sequential, adjacent bolt sizes in the same standard, or filling in missing sizes.

 

[CGarage]

Rescued from a Swiss Flea Market

 

[Dave455]

Rescued from a Swiss Flea Market

Wow - Facom No.33 - and in useful sizes as well!

Normally, if I find a rare wrench it’ll be in something like 9 x 11mm!

 

[CGarage]

Any idea on era?

 

[Dave455]

Any idea on era?

I’m struggling a bit on this, as these were discontinued long before I started buying Facom, but I’m thinking 50’s / 60’s.

I have seen other tools from that era that have similar style / finish, and you can find Facom catalogues online from the 1970’s, in which the No.33 had already been discontinued.

Unfortunately, much of what I know relates to tools that were available in the U.K. and there wasn’t a huge amount of Facom here in that era. Certainly not many rarities such as these.

Good find though. I’d have bought it.

I must admit I tend to hunt out second hand tool shops and flea markets whenever I’m in a foreign city - much to the distress / amusement of my colleagues…!

Never found much in Switzerland - Sweden and Finland have always been about the best for me. Maybe due to where I’ve stayed.

 

[CGarage]

I have old Facom catalogues dating to the 50s so will have to look.

I felt bad seeing it by itself and paid rude bux for it - 3 Francs!

It’s quite thin, and I thought this and its useful size, may pay off one day!

There isn’t much here in Switzerland unless you want PB Swiss and stuff like that. However, I did find and buy some good Hazet items by dumb luck.

 

[CGarage]

Facom in use today in the beautiful French city of Lyon, the culinary capitol of the world.

I own the larger version of this tool bag and it is wonderfully made and great engineering thought went into it. Including the waterproof construction and the rubberized-plastic bottom base.

 

[f121]

Facom in use today in the beautiful French city of Lyon, the culinary capitol of the world.

I own the larger version of this tool bag and it is wonderfully made and great engineering thought went into it. Including the waterproof construction and the rubberized-plastic bottom base.

Anyone who’s worked mobile will be very jealous of that waterproof construction. Right until when they leave it open in the rain and find their tools in an inch of water. Or 2.5cm of water if they’re in France.