The Machine Work Thread

[Toolmaker51]

re Table Covers.
Great idea, I've messed with different forms over the years.
Seemingly, I contour mill all day long. With roughers or long flute endmills, those chips are a clean-up challenge. I often have the dog with me; you do not want their feet picking up chips!
First off, wood is the worst material imaginable. It either rots from petroleum products or hold water based coolants and rust any contacting surfaces beyond belief.
Last set I made are rather like shutters or shingles; 2 of them 8" shorter like Monza Harry suggests for all the right reasons. I just got a shear and brake, bandsawn the vise contours to the longer ones, bent down the long edges 90° barely wider than shorter ones that fit table closely. So there is a wide range of vise placement or not use the shorts at all. I often have twin vises mounted, with two pair as described, they can be about 6" or 28ish" apart and cover the table very completely.
Not perfectly satisfied with the current set, now with a brake I'm going to offset bend the edges to form a bit of a channel so coolant doesn't run all over.

To be creative, when I work, I tend to rock. Right now it's Ben Harper's Better Way (Live In Six-Fours-les-Plage) Earlier it was Joseph Arthur Saint of Impossible Causes First thing this morning it was Joe Walsh Analog Man, Wrecking Ball and Lucky That Way.
Somehow a piece of my identity is is every one of those.
90.9 The Bridge.org/#

 

[ClappedOutBport]

That's a great idea, I might just have to get another plate set cut. Luckily, this machine has chromed ways and appears to have lived a pretty easy life as everything is nice and tight. I looked at another machine that you could lean on the table and it would move like .005", but you couldn't tighten the gibs up anymore as the middle was so worn that the the table would've stuck on the ends of the travel. I was just talking to my uncle about how these old machines are like tractors; there is always something to be fixed/adjusted, and it always involves heavy parts.

I actually need to take the table off as I think I'm having an oiling issue on my Y axis screw. It's probably just a gummed up metering valve, but it's impossible to know without tearing her down. I'll probably go ahead and do new brass nuts while I'm in there.

If you put a DTI on a worn machine, you'll notice the table becomes out of tram when moved over to the side from the weight. Something to keep in mind.

0.005 is nothing. Our bridgeport moved about 1/8" when we got it if you rocked the 36" table back and forth hard from the wear in the saddle and table. We replaced the knee from a second machine, and the table from a third, and it's much better now. Maybe about 0.030 slop now. I can still hold 0.001 on most parts, even as an amateur. The saddle from the second machine still needs to go on once the bjur oiler is worked out, and the table from the second machine can go on someday when it's in a bigger shop.

And for those about to say that you shouldn't swap parts from one machine to another I have to say: it's a hell of a lot better now than it was before. We got luck in that all of the new parts were bigger than the old ones, so just shimming the gibs allowed them all to work.

There is probably no reason to replace the nuts. The nuts are half split, so tightening the screw only ***** them. If you cut them all the way in half, you can take out way more adjustment, to where the screw wear is the only limiting factor. We had 0.070 backlash in Y and 0.040 in the X. After splitting, we have 0.001 at the ends on the X and 0.005 in the middle, and about 0.003 on the Y up to 0.015 in the middle. That's pretty much all screw wear at this point.

 

[stioc]

I use WD40 for lube on aluminum, which is common practice. For slots try going with a smaller diameter end mill and do a center cut and then do a pass on both sides of the slot to finished dimension. 1/2" depth of cut with a 1/2" end mill seems like a big bite on a mill drill, but I could be wrong. My experience with such machines is limited.

Thanks for the tips on slotting, that's a good way to go. In the case of CNC the adaptive clearing works really well.

I too have used WD40 with the mister/fogger. Lately, I've been doing as much dry cutting as possible similar to what I do on my lathe. Main reason why I'm switching to carbide just so I don't make a gooey mess with the WD40 and air.

 

[Toolmaker51]

re: If you put a DTI on a worn machine, you'll notice the table becomes out of tram when moved over to the side from the weight. Something to keep in mind.
That's called Abbe error, only full bed machines can minimize that. Bridgeports, about any horizontal you'll see, and less than precision grinders are over hung. If the table moves, there has to be gib clearance. Pow, free Abbe characteristics.

The 'big bite' on a mill drill is more due span of spindle bearings and extending the quill, than easily made gib adjustments.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

re: If you put a DTI on a worn machine, you'll notice the table becomes out of tram when moved over to the side from the weight. Something to keep in mind.
That's called Abbe error, only full bed machines can minimize that. Bridgeports, about any horizontal you'll see, and less than precision grinders are over hung. If the table moves, there has to be gib clearance. Pow, free Abbe characteristics.

The 'big bite' on a mill drill is more due span of spindle bearings and extending the quill, than easily made gib adjustments.

Neat, thanks for the info. On the new machines I've used it never seems like much of an issue, but on an old one with a 140lb rotary table sitting off on the side, you're in for a bad time.

 

[zmotorsports]

I recently acquired my Bridgeport, so I've been doing a lot of small projects while I build up my inventory of tooling. When I was in school, we had wood table covers that dropped into the T-slot grooves to keep them clean and protect the table. I really liked them, but I prefer working with metal.

I downloaded a 2D CAD drawing of my Kurt vise and imported it into Fusion 360 and quickly drew up the covers. I made the covers .25" longer than the table to account for variances in vice centering. I made them 8.75" wide instead of 9" (width of the table) to also account for vise placement without having an overhang on the edges.

Excuse the mess, still need to clean up from yesterday.

The sheets were laser cut out of .188" (unknown grade).

Here you can see the contour of the vise (hence the 2D CAD drawing). You can also see the 10-32 screws are countersunk for a smoother surface.

The strips ride in the 5/8" slots and are made of .50"x.50" stock (allows .125 of front to back vise movement), tapped 10-32. The T-nuts were made of .75x1.00" stock and tapped 1/4"-20.

Bottom view.

Bb&G, those table covers turned out fantastic. Nice job.

 

[Riggerson]

Machined the S4 Blackhawk jack handle shaft P/N S4.127 for 930Dreamer. I took a couple pictures that I thought might be interesting.



Lathe work. Parting operation.




Milling the keyway.




Had to tack weld the original broken part back together in order to pick up the angle difference between the keys and the large flat. Used the dividing head to measure the angle.




Final setup for milling the large flat.




Finished part.

The original part was pretty rough so I had to make some assumptions about some of the dimensions. Should be functional and get his jack back in service.

 

[930dreamer]

Looking good, thank you sir.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

Nice part!

 

[larry_g]

Finished part.

The original part was pretty rough so I had to make some assumptions about some of the dimensions. Should be functional and get his jack back in service.

That looks good. I hope that you made a drawing or a couple of extra. I sold one and had requests for 2 more so there is a small market for them. Problem is that I doubt that many want to pay a fair price.

If you search S4 jack you will find a few looking for that part as they are a common failure.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Riggerson]

After buying material and consumables it's a tough part to make much on. It's more time consuming that expected. But I did make a drawing and would make a couple more if someone else wants one.

If I had a jack handy I could probably redesign the part to be stronger and hopefully mitigate the failure mechanism. There's no reason a little more material couldn't be left on it.

I did do a search on the part number and it looks like they're selling used ones for $160. Might post one on ebay and see what happens.

 

[stioc]

Nice work!

 

[Toolmaker51]

That looks good. I hope that you made a drawing or a couple of extra. I sold one and had requests for 2 more so there is a small market for them. Problem is that I doubt that many want to pay a fair price.

If you search S4 jack you will find a few looking for that part as they are a common failure.

lg
no neat sig line

Those without equipment and skill don't understand costs; space, capital equipment, tooling, materials, power. So how it underlies profit is a mystery.

Invite them to lay out for a lathe, mill, indexer, metrology instead. All of a sudden price sounds better.
Using ebay to research demand works OK; if a careful ad is written and is placed in a proper category. I had good luck testing prototypes at cost, and same time of one closing a good time later at Make An Offer. Unless demand is pretty high Buy It Now won't go anywhere.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I have an upcoming welding project that will require some more precise setups than I typically deal with. I've seen a few guys on the internet using these simple fixture plates and I thought one would be handy to have around. I went to my local metal supply and got a remnant piece of .750" fixture plate that measured ~ 7.750"x14.250". I've never used this stuff before, but it's basically much flatter than typical plate. Flatter than I need, but it was $.10/lb more and I didn't have to surface it. All the holes are tapped for 1/2"-13 to go with my TeCo clamp set. All said and done, it cost me about $45 for the plate, drill bit, and tap.

I dialed the plate within .004" across it's length. Kind of a waste of time, but good practice. You never know, it might end up as a mill fixture also some day.

Spot drilled each hole with a .500" drill. Went slightly below surface level to keep the lead thread protected after being tapped.

Holes were drilled 27/64", then power tapped 1/2"-13 using WD40, and a $14 Chinese keyed chuck. Holes are on a 2" pattern.

And this is what it's supposed to do....

 

[Toolmaker51]

Fixture plate generally describes this cast-like aluminum, which is rather gummy or crumbly but is stable, flat and sufficiently economical.
What you made, some might call a sub-plate, especially when they mount a vise, fixtures...
You indicated it which will help next use. If I had to start from zero, I'd mill one edge; either not full depth or with 'horns' at each end to protect it.
And a $14 drill chuck best use is holding taps, using a good chuck is rant material. When a tap spins, the jaws suffer. You see the evidence on drill shanks.

Good job Bigblue&Goldie and nice write up too.

 

[matt_i]

When a tap spins, the jaws suffer. You see the evidence on drill shanks.

I've this itch to put a tap in the Master Grind and grind 3 small flats at 120deg included for "grip". Problem is i gotta finish the shop to move in the surface grinder

Granted I might break some taps but I think that erroring on that side of caution is better than slipping them. Then its just chuck and go.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I've this itch to put a tap in the Master Grind and grind 3 small flats at 120deg included for "grip". Problem is i gotta finish the shop to move in the surface grinder

Granted I might break some taps but I think that erroring on that side of caution is better than slipping them. Then its just chuck and go.

That's why I use the cheap keyed chuck; they slip before the tap breaks. It takes a little to get the tension right, but I did all 45 holes and only had to slightly tighten the chuck a couple of times. Just how I was taught when you don't have a tapping head.

 

[bullnerd]

I've made a few of those small (and large) fixture plates.

I would have recommended adding 1/4" reamed holes to a depth between the 1/2-13's if I saw you were doing this sooner.

That way you drop in some pins and you have a very square setup plate.

I use to keep two sets of pins, plain, and a set with a 1/2" rod for a handle, like a "T" handle. VERY handy little setup plate!

Square and clamp your parts , and pull the pins.

Nice job BBG!

Jig plate = yucky

 

[Toolmaker51]

I've this itch to put a tap in the Master Grind and grind 3 small flats at 120deg included for "grip". Problem is i gotta finish the shop to move in the surface grinder

Granted I might break some taps but I think that erroring on that side of caution is better than slipping them. Then its just chuck and go.

As a guess, flats [driving torque too positive] will be worse than galling a cheap chuck. If you search homemadetools.net there will be examples of shop made tap drivers with a simple compression spring for a clutch. Some use drill chuck for tap holder with a straight shank contained in a cylinder encircled by a spring. The shaft is threaded, using a nut to compress the spring for torque adjustment.

 

[KBigg]

So I saw some rumblings in another section about a certain brand of impact socket not being stamped. It got me thinking, seeing as how i own a set or two or 8. So i grabbed one out of the box and went to town. Ended up engraving them in the 4th axis and it turned out great for the 5 minutes of effort I put into it. I may end up doing it to the rest of them if I can find the time.

 

[matt_i]

As a guess, flats [driving torque too positive] will be worse than galling a cheap chuck. If you search homemadetools.net there will be examples of shop made tap drivers with a simple compression spring for a clutch. Some use drill chuck for tap holder with a straight shank contained in a cylinder encircled by a spring. The shaft is threaded, using a nut to compress the spring for torque adjustment.

Sounds interesting. I was looking at it from the point of using tap drivers in my VMC which are totally open loop, I don't even have the rigid-tap spindle to Z-axis coordination on my machine so it requires a floating driver. But I just send the code and it taps, if I did it wrong its going to break something, but of thousands of holes tapped via spiral point, I've only broken #6-32. Something about that size is just inherently weak (!)

 

[lilscorpion]

I've this itch to put a tap in the Master Grind and grind 3 small flats at 120deg included for "grip". Problem is i gotta finish the shop to move in the surface grinder



Granted I might break some taps but I think that erroring on that side of caution is better than slipping them. Then its just chuck and go.

I run taps in an er-style collet with cheaper collets. Grip is superior and I don’t need to modify every tap. I started doing that after wrecking one of my good chucks.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I need some help from those in the know.....

Opinions on using C5 carbide boring bar inserts (TT221 size) on aluminum? This would be for a milling application on a Bridgeport. I feel like C2 would be better, but I'd rather not spend the money if I can get reasonable results with the C5.

 

[KBigg]

C5 should be fine for aluminum, just keep it cool and don't let it gum up. C2 would be a better option as its more suitable for interrupted cuts and handy to have around for future use.

 

[xman_charl]

for those that do not know:

tapping head

numerous holes

planetary gear box

that lever is for reversing tap

Charl

 

[larry4406]

for those that do not know:

tapping head

numerous holes

planetary gear box

that lever is for reversing tap

Charl

That's a hell of a bomb to drop without details! Excellent job!

 

[KBigg]

This is our Ettco Tool tapping head. Doesn't see much action anymore but its nice for our Jigbore machine. Same thing as yours just much older.

 

[whateg01]

I have two tapping heads from SPV that I have never used. I need to make a number of tap adapters/collets for them. It's on the list of things to do.

Nice thing about them is they disengage at a preset torque and then freewheel. Reverse the spindle and they back out. At least in theory...

 

[4 FN 27]

for those that do not know:

tapping head

numerous holes

planetary gear box

that lever is for reversing tap

Charl

What make is that Tapping Head?

We have a number of the Ettco Heads we run on Drill Presses.

When the Throat isn't deep enough on the Drill Press we use a Pneumatic Tapping Head on an Arm. Works pretty slick.

We also have a couple of old relic Amada CNC Tappers. Holds 3 Taps (different or same) and can take a part 20 in Y and infinite in X if repositioning. Works great when you have a lot of tapped holes.

The latest Tapping Head goes in the Turret. The Hydraulic Ram pushed the Tapping Head down causing the Tap to spin forward and backwards on the return. These units are about $11K plus ratios. We can tap about 250 Holes per minute on Sheet Metal. We have an oiler mounted inside the Turret so it gets a blast of lube on each hit. Only broke 1 so far in 3 years of use.

 

[Toolmaker51]

in re Tapping Heads in general: Of all the varieties, they boil down to different actions.
I like unlimited torque that disengage when the quill handle is backed off or reaches the stop, fine for through holes, or deeply drilled blind but tapped 1.5 or 2.0 diameters in depth. They are short & compact, not reversing, no torque [tommy] bar, grip tap shanks in a steel collet and square drive. Only usable in machines with reversing spindle.
Like shown in other posts, ETTCO, Procunier, Tapmatics etc allow drill presses efficient tapping, with built in tap reversal. Many can reverse at 2x spindle speed. Those with torque setting, understandably have limited size capability. Sliding a part over a flat table, locating holes by eye or fixturing, the floating mechanism does the rest, it is fast.
I only do limited multiple parts. Often quicker to tap off-line from the mill.
I won't chuck taps in tooling [Jacobs, Albrecht, etc] I paid for, unless to start and turn by HAND.

and to 4 FN 27, I'm far less resistant to Square Feet, Tools and Machines. Two weeks ago, 22,000 pounds of punch presses, 5 to 85 tons.

 

[Monza Harry]

When the Throat isn't deep enough on the Drill Press we use a Pneumatic Tapping Head on an Arm. Works pretty slick.

Those Pneumatic arms are the BOMB! One shop I was at had a larger unit and I was tapping 7/8-9 through about a 1" plate it struggled a bit and the foreman said "it isn't doing very well is it?" I said it is WAY easier and faster than a 3' tap handle! Harry

 

[Toolmaker51]

WAY easier than a 3' tap handle.
Especially when they won't purchase same, hope an older employee will bring one in, or somebody fab's up a rough copy. Also reasonable bet that foreman never heaved a big tap or die.
I've only run pneumatic arms on smaller holes and row planting Heli-Coils, yes they are unbeatable!
and now for something completely different;
https://open.spotify.com/track/7LZzqr2Th8WsAz9ONsBozg?si=FdOPLtNaQyaYL-fVPDHEXg

 

[racingtadpole]

So while you guys were building thread cutting heads from scratch I turned a piece of rusty shaft into some T nuts for my new to me Rong Fu dovetail (something of a step up from from its round column predecessor). Some days it’s the simple things.. like not losing index when you raise or lower the head mid way through

 

[Toolmaker51]

Before slicing up the T-bar too far, drill pairs in other than clamp stud sizes. ie 3/8 with 5/16, or longer with a setscrew to hold when it's loose between parts.
Come to think of it, make a whole second bar. You can cut some 45° and slot width; then they drop in, especially after a thought to be complete set up. Very handy, here's a visual reference https://www.carrlane.com/en-us/product/clamps-accessories/studs-bolts-t-nuts/rotary-t-nuts
Then, done with those you can . . .

 

[racingtadpole]

That length of bar got turned into M10 (stud size) and M8 for setscrew clamps, I’ve also roughed out another length but haven’t dimensioned it yet. I’ve not seen those rotational types before, that second bar might get turned into some of those. Thanks for the info and link, much appreciated.

 

[Toolmaker51]

re the rotational tee nuts. Follow the illustrations, you'll find drawings easy enough, everybody makes them. The angle needs to be on correct side so they'll tighten as intended.

 

[xman_charl]

This fixture plate, 10 mm holdes

3/8 aluminum

fits drill table and also mill vice

easy breezy with a tapping head...

Charl

 

[stioc]

I needed a small form tool to make a convex shape on the inside of a hole so I started making a small boring bar and the insert. The boring bar is a 5/16" stock of 12L14 and the insert is a broken #1 HSS center drill shaped using a diamond bit in a Dremel.

I think I'll face it off a bit more and use a shorter set screw so the bar doesn't stick out as much and I'll turn the diameter down at the top and of course cut off the other end of the insert bit too.

 

[stioc]

Today I made a ring out of stainless steel, the SS slug is in the background. It's really quite small, 2.5mm wide and 1.2mm thick which includes the convex contour on the outside.

 

[kazlx]

Nice job dude!