The Ratchet Collection Thread

[Odinru]

Odinru,

Your description is a little confusing. You say that the "attachment square" (which I am reading as "drive plug drive stud") is 9.85 mm, and that it "takes on sockets from the set only." But then you go on to say that the sockets "can be attached to any modern 3/8"dr. ratchet." 9.85mm is roughly .387 inches, which is roughly 3/8" drive. If the sockets in the set can be driven by the ratchet, and they have 3/8-inch drive female openings, then the plug in that ratchet must have a 3/8-inch drive male drive stud. Would you confirm that it is a 3/8-inch drive set? Or clarify what you mean when you are implying that the ratchet is somehow unique but the sockets are not?

What size are the 12-point service openings on the sockets?

What is part 107? It looks like the drive head from a sliding tee that is absent its bar. Is there a hole cross drilled in it? Hard to tell from the photo, but I think I see a glimpse of an opening. That's were the sliding tee bar would go. Does it have a 3/8-inch drive stud on it?

Also what is the number on the side of the ratchet? And what are the numbers on the sockets? It looks like they each have two numbers - one on the base, and one on the wall of the service opening.

Very cool find, by the way. The mottled finish on the pieces is almost assuredly either cadmium or some kind of zinc phosphate. Wartime.

Private Lugnutz, the set is in Ukraine geographically, in a posession of my friend, so some measurements results requested will come later.
As to the ratchet drive plug/drive stud size, it is indeed 9,85 mm. Modern 3/8" dr. sockets have square aperture of approximately 9,65 mm (at least, my "Hans" sockets do). So the set ratchet wouldn't take them on. But any socket of the discussed set can fit on a drive plug of any modern 3/8" dr. ratchet, for the latter have drive plugs of roughly 9,45-9,55 mm. So, we've identified the set as a 3/8" dr. one, but with that "minor" discrepancies.
As to the part №107, yes it's a drive head from a sliding tee that is absent. And yes, it has hole cross drilled in it.
The sliding tee absence made us think that this set is just a part of some bigger tool kit that must've been composed of several different boxes.
The number on the side of the ratchet is 94.
Numbers/digits on the sockets and their corresponding service openings will be requested and posted as soon as possible. As far as I can judge, numbers were made by stamping each digit one after another, for spacings between them are different, and two separate "19"s don't look similar.
Thank you for your close attention and questions!

 

[Odinru]

Very interesting set. I’ve not seen anything like it. The ratchet looks like Snap On but the sockets don’t.

No date marking at all under the direction lever?

Nope, just those numbers. My fellow comrade gave me a clue having sent me those WW II posters. Both have ratchets depicted at there bottom lines. Both ratchets have some similiarity to the discussed one.





But, paying credit to your reasonable observation, I'd say that the shape of the aperture in the wooden inlay where the ratchet goes could imply that some other ratchet might've been meant there. But, perhaps not.

 

[Odinru]

Maybe these could have been produced by MTF before the buyout? Milwaukee Tool & Forge Co.? Some closer ups on the pics would be of extreme help!

Just let me know, what should be photoed and emphasised. I'll do my best to provide the pictures requested.

 

[WarrenJ]

Picked these up at an auction.
Snap On F 710 D on left and an F 720. The 710 needs some cleaning.

 

[LesserSon]

Odinru:
I have an idea: could the drive plug have started life at 1/2”, and been filed or ground to function as a 3/8”? The modification would stop when it fit these particular sockets, which may be snug on this ratchet, but fit with some slight play on factory-made 3/8” drives.
What is the overall length of the rachet handle? Does it match a standard Snap-on 3/8dr or a standard 1/2dr handle?

 

[3baygarage]

Nope, just those numbers. My fellow comrade gave me a clue having sent me those WW II posters. Both have ratchets depicted at there bottom lines. Both ratchets have some similiarity to the discussed one.





But, paying credit to your reasonable observation, I'd say that the shape of the aperture in the wooden inlay where the ratchet goes could imply that some other ratchet might've been meant there. But, perhaps not.

Ok thanks.

I’ve never seen the Airacobra maintenence kit ad before. It’s interesting to me because Snap On ratchets were also a part of the plane themselves!
A modified version of their 1/2” ratchet served as the emergency undercarriage hand crank in King Cobras, Airacobras, and others by Bell. How cool is that?

See thread here:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=207554

Posted more photos in Snap On thread:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7343450&postcount=1075

Edit: last 4 pictures showing the Airacomet cockpit and another variation of the crank. Note how the handle pivots out of the way.

 

[Odinru]

Odinru:
I have an idea: could the drive plug have started life at 1/2”, and been filed or ground to function as a 3/8”? The modification would stop when it fit these particular sockets, which may be snug on this ratchet, but fit with some slight play on factory-made 3/8” drives.
What is the overall length of the rachet handle? Does it match a standard Snap-on 3/8dr or a standard 1/2dr handle?

LesserSon, well... If I take your idea correctly, by measuring the exterior dimentions of the ratchet we can identify it as either 1/2"dr. or 3/8" dr. tool. Good. Will do that too.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Odinru:

What you're saying about the drive size of the plug and the sockets still makes no sense to me. Sorry. I suspect you and your friend are getting lost in decimals and overthinking negligible manufacturing differences.

Do the sockets in the set fit on the drive stud in the removable drive plug in the ratchet in the set or not?

If that's a yes, and they're 3/8-inch drive sockets, it has to be a 3/8-inch drive stud on that drive plug, and any 3/8-inch drive socket should fit on the drive stud just the same. Some may fit tighter than others, and perhaps you and your friend may find that you even have some modern sockets that won't fit at all if you test it. It's not uncommon. Manufacturing processes have become much more precise in 70 years. And by the looks of these pieces, with nothing branded, it was part of some one-off contract to begin with, or perhaps they're even knock-offs, so cruder dimensions on the drive stud are even more logical.

If the sockets in the set do not fit the drive stud in that ratchet drive plug, then they are not even part of the same set and something else is going on entirely.

Given the fact that they all have the same strange model numbers, and they all seem to be related, running from the 80's (sockets) to 94 (ratchet) to 107 (sliding tee), it would be very strange for them all not to be 3/8-inch drive. Also, there is no common drive size between 3/8 and 1/2, and even though 7/16 was used it wasn't used on reversible ratchets like this (except for Blackhawk Nuggets), and the stud isn't even close to 7/16.

Again, I suspect the drive plug is a slightly large 3/8-inch drive.

 

[Odinru]

Ok thanks.

I’ve never seen the Airacobra maintenence kit ad before. It’s interesting to me because Snap On ratchets were also a part of the plane themselves!
A modified version of their 1/2” ratchet served as the emergency undercarriage hand crank in King Cobras, Airacobras, and others by Bell. How cool is that?

See thread here:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=207554

Posted more photos in Snap On thread:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7343450&postcount=1075

That is cool indeed! I've never seen a thing like that before. Thank you!
To add some words of the ratchet that belonged to a standard engine service tool kit of Allison V-1710, I only know it was 1/2"dr. But, how did it look like?
I don't know.




That's why some doubts as to the discussed set and its connections to Airacobra maintenance.

 

[Odinru]

Odinru:

What you're saying about the drive size of the plug and the sockets still makes no sense to me. Sorry. I suspect you and your friend are getting lost in decimals and overthinking negligible manufacturing differences.

Do the sockets in the set fit on the drive stud in the removable drive plug in the ratchet in the set or not?

If that's a yes, and they're 3/8-inch drive sockets, it has to be a 3/8-inch drive stud on that drive plug, and any 3/8-inch drive socket should fit on the drive stud just the same. Some may fit tighter than others, and perhaps you and your friend may find that you even have some modern sockets that won't fit at all if you test it. It's not uncommon. Manufacturing processes have become much more precise in 70 years. And by the looks of these pieces, with nothing branded, it was part of some one-off contract to begin with, or perhaps they're even knock-offs, so cruder dimensions on the drive stud are even more logical.

If the sockets in the set do not fit the drive stud in that ratchet drive plug, then they are not even part of the same set and something else is going on entirely.

Given the fact that they all have the same strange model numbers, and they all seem to be related, running from the 80's (sockets) to 94 (ratchet) to 107 (sliding tee), it would be very strange for them all not to be 3/8-inch drive. Also, there is no common drive size between 3/8 and 1/2, and even though 7/16 was used it wasn't used on reversible ratchets like this (except for Blackhawk Nuggets), and the stud isn't even close to 7/16.

Again, I suspect the drive plug is a slightly large 3/8-inch drive.

Private Lugnutz, I've got your point as to the 3/8" dr. issue. Thank you for the detailed explanation once again! Perhaps you're quite right.
The proposal to measure and file sizes and numbers will be complied with. The questions stated will be answered, hopefully soon.

 

[bbrins]

Craft ratchets:

A couple of years ago, for some reason, I had myself convinced that my Craft 45170 ratchet was made by SK, after all they made tools for a number of different brands. Since then, I have acquired a couple of Craft socket sets, they were made in Japan. Most of the parts of the sets are marked "Craft" or "cTc" a long with a part number that matches up with SK's part numbers. In the 3/8 kit only the breaker bar is actually marked "Japan". In the 1/4 kit, nearly everything is marked "Japan". The ratchets are not half bad copies of the SK 45170 and 40970, the rest of the stuff in the sets is pretty crude. On the 45170, all internal parts will interchange with SK parts, on the 40970 you can swap the entire internal assembly, but not all individual parts. Sorry if this is too many pictures...

3/8 set:

1/4 set:

Ratchet comparisons:

 

[3baygarage]

Nice comparison. Someone said there was plastic in the Craft.

 

[bbrins]

Nice comparison. Someone said there was plastic in the Craft.

Yep. The 45170 has a plastic selector detent, although I have seen a few of those in real SK made ratchets before too, one that I can remember for sure is marked "SK Custom" and I think one of my JC Penney ratchets as well. On the 40970, the internal selector is all plastic, but with a metal selector detent.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

That is a very close clone.

The numbers on the 'soviet mystery ratchet' are frustratingly close to the S-O made Craftsman C series, but no cigar. The broaching in the socket is similar too, very flat in the bottom.

A tell I see on Snap On drive tools of the era is the punch used to stake the retaining ball in usually leaves a radial pattern *, instead of a smooth O like nearly every other brand.

I have encountered an odd fitment issue with some Thorsen/Calif Tool 3/4 drive where they won't work with any other brand I have because the drives are made so perfectly square they don't fit the slightly radiused hole in a normal socket

 

[cajunfirehawk]

I get updates from this thread all year long and its about time to show the only ratchets I collect:

Herbrand J9 (J9A)

Craftsman Spinner Ratchets

The last one on the bottom is to be what I consider to be my holy grail, it is as close to being brand new as I have ever seen! I also have 2 more on my bench in various stages of refurb waiting to go back together.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!
​

 

[RubiconJK]

I get updates from this thread all year long and its about time to show the only ratchets I collect:

Wow! That must be the largest collection of those in existence! Very impressive!

 

[jpickar]

No wonder I can't find any!!!

 

[Craftsman C-series]

Awesome collection Cajun. Here are some of my favs.

 

[r_olson_06]

Awesome collection Cajun. Here are some of my favs.

2 Excaliburs!!

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,

 

[Craftsman C-series]

Plvmb ratchets. I love the tier drop ones with the elongated head.

 

[3baygarage]

Wow, what a page! Happy New Year guys.


Cajun- dang, your collection has really taken off, holy cow.


C-series- will you tell us about that dark C-98. I remember you posted it once before. Is it an unfinished example from the factory or just turned upside down? Hard to tell if the head is different than the complete one.

 

[Craftsman C-series]

3bay - hard to say. To me it’s an unfinished Ratchet given the dimensions are the same and it says C-98 like the complete ratchet. I believe too if memory serves me correct it has the same number of teeth. I would imagine the next step in the manufacturing process would have been to mill the head to fit the plates to hold the ratcheting guts in place. I will have to look at the other side of the unfinished wrench/ratchet though to see if it matches to finished C-98 side with the screw.

 

[3baygarage]

Interesting, thanks. It’s hard enough to find a complete example. Nice Plomb collection btw. Those long heads are a thing of beauty.

 

[r_olson_06]

That is why that 1/2" pearhead went on damn high last week. Nice collection. I really like the socket rail in the Plomb box.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,

 

[Craftsman C-series]

Thanks Olsen.

3bay - now that I see there is a spot for the screw that holds the cover in place I do think the dark C-98 is an unfinished C-98. See attached pics.

 

[davethorik]

Nice Herbrands, Cajun and craftsman!

 

[Odinru]

Happy New Year, gentlmen!
Today I'm back with some more pictures and numbers, but sizes have not been completed yet. And yet, the set owner shared with me some new points. I'm not sure the pics size is allowable, but I'll try to railroad them into the post.
So, we decided to mark each part with a letter.

Each part has a number stamped on it. So, the set parts have numbers as follows:

A (94), B (93), C (83-7), D (98-6), E (95-7) , F (85-9), G (84-11), H (80-13),
J (107), K (87-14), L (78-15), M (82-16), N (79-18), O (81-19). Sockets C and D have square service openings, other sockets - 12-sided ones. The idea that digits 6, 7, 11, 13, 14, 15, 16, 18, 19 refer to fasteners/nuts sizes in millimiters failed. At least the set owner says so.
By the way, meet the extension (bears number 90).

But, let's leave sizes aside for a while. The matter is that some more digits were discovered. The wooden inlay bears some ink printed digits. Though not well visible, they look like that:

It's seen that all the printed digits are positioned upside down, so to say. For, the wooden inlay can be placed in the box just in this way. Some printed digits correspond to the stamped number on the sockets.
But, the digits beside our ratchet say 31, and the ratchet itself bears stamped number 94...

There is a small diamond shaped ink printed sign among the well faded away digits. It is hard to say, whether a letter or digits are enclosed whithin it. Looks like "14". Though, letters "M" or "H" can not be ruled out too. But, two sockets as it appeares, have barely seen signs of the same diamond shape:
It looks like 3-digit numbers to me. "446" (socket N) and ".83" (socket E).

 

[Odinru]

The pisc of the diamond signs are of poor quality. Sorry, they are the best available for the moment.
Some pics of the box and the wooden inlay:




The ratchet (part A 94) has 20 teeth. Total length - 176 mm

 

[Craftsman C-series]

I love the wooden insert for the case. That looks great.

 

[Capt. Spaulding]

Awesome stuff guys!

C Series- Love that Plumb box. Is the label inside the lid original or a vinyl aftermarket piece?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks for the detailed, thoughtfully-presented update. That anomalous "31" is a bit of a fly in the ointment, as are the mysterious diamond markings on only a few of the sockets, but it seems undeniable to me that it's a set (including now the extension, even though it doesn't have a place in the case) based on the numbers stamped into the pieces and the fact that some of them even match the numbers on the wooden insert. Who made it and for what purpose remains elusive.

I have some socket sets in metal cases with wooden inserts, but it's a practice that was largely phased out by the early 1930's in terms of factory offerings.

It is a handsome combination!

View media item 83996
I am still leaning toward foreign knock-off.

 

[Odinru]

As a pure supposition, we have socket numbers going from 78 to 87 (numbers 86, 88 & 89 missing). Number 90 comes as an extension, 94 - ratchet. It gives the idea that those 86, 88 and 89 were sockets too. And all above 89 were extensions, connectors etc.
Two diamond signs on two sockets have appeared so far. But only two were cleaned. There are chances there could be some more.

 

[Odinru]

I love the wooden insert for the case. That looks great.

The set owner is sure the inlay is made of balsa. But no proofs. Just another supposition.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Odinru,

Comments from snapmom, a knowledgeable collector, on your ratchet can be seen here over on the Snap-on thread after I directed her to your posts over here.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

The innards do resemble the f70n. The plug is much more squared on the edges. Same basic design. Very interesting.

 

[Odinru]

Private Lugnutz, I do appreciate your help! So, all in all, the foreign knock-offs guide line comes into the main focus.
Oldtuleguy, thank you for the clue! The ratchet outward resamblance directed me to the idea it's Snap-on's. Now, that Snapmom pointed out that originally the wheel didn't belong to this ratchet type, and the paw, perhaps, was not Snap-on's at all, or didn't go with that drive size, I had some doubts.
Anyway, many thanks to everyone who showed interest and provided ideas and clues! Some measurements've been in progress, so, hit or miss, they'll appear in this thread. At least, I hope so.

 

[Odinru]

Well, we've not been half way through that measurement issue, but some new findings appeared. In the same garage another ratchet was found:


This protruding element is a direction selector; to change the rotation direction, one should pull it and turn 180 degrees:


The handle bears digits "29" in two places and a numder 82 30 46:

The selector head bears number 9 (or 6):

 

[3baygarage]

Now that’s an interesing piece too. Haven’t seen one before.

 

[Odinru]

I've forgotten the most interesting detail. The newly found ratchet stud size is about 9,85-9,90 mm. Just as the first ratchet in question has.

 

[Odinru]

Getting back to the unidentified ratchet, some pics with some dimensions:













And two more questions: "What repair kit may pass for this ratchet? If possible, could anybody give the part number for such a repair kit?"