The wet garage raise

[Farmall450]

Just read this entire thread...awesome build OP. I remember seeing pics from when you bought the place, and I'm thrilled how quick you got the garage taken care of.
Sorry your contractors sucked, that seems to be a trend nowadays. Good luck finishing it up.

 

[highflier]

Fwiw, in new construction slab on grade, 7 days is the cure time before we start framing.
Pull your forms after a 2-3 days.
I'd probably wait 20 days before I set the building down.
And then take 2-3 days to fully set it down.
Then tighten your sill plate anchors over a couple days also.

Good job!

 

[wssix99]

Fwiw, in new construction slab on grade, 7 days is the cure time before we start framing.
Pull your forms after a 2-3 days.
I'd probably wait 20 days before I set the building down.
And then take 2-3 days to fully set it down.
Then tighten your sill plate anchors over a couple days also.

Good job!

The building can go down all the way after 3 or 4 days as long as there is no snow forecast in the next few days:

60% strength is just fine to hold up the relatively light weight of the building. The one month of waiting should be done before adding more weight to the building and (more importantly) filling the inside and backfilling the outside.


^ The longer this structure is in the air, the greater the chance for really bad things to happen...

 

[Sparkynutz]

Thanks for the chart.
I don't see how the chance for bad things to happen is any worse now than when it was supported almost 3 feet installing the forms and really cranking on it with chains and straps trying to straighten it out the first time.
More than likely if something bad was going to happen it would have already. Cribbing hasn't failed and I haven't sheared a single screw. It might have been a chain reaction if I did. This last time when lowering I was pulling on garage so hard I was moving my truck more than the garage. Twisting the garage with one corner on cribbing and 3 sides up on extended jacks for more movement is probably the most likely time it would have failed. The garage side walls are bulged outward one side further than the other but should be easily fixable after I get the plastic tubing removed and some straps anchored to old slab on opposite side. One side is bowed out 3/16" and other side an 1/8" even if I can't get it straightened out and squared it will sit down just fine on new wall because of the strips I installed at top to make room for siding if it was off.
Tonight I removed bracing and cleaned things up. I probably won't fill yet inside and only grade exterior slightly until spring and see if it stays dry. I'll use a couple forms to make ramps so I can use it for storage over winter yet after its lowered and beams are out.

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[1949 caddyman]

Are you going to water proof the walls before backfill?

 

[Sparkynutz]

Definitely. I bought the most expensive stuff I found. Some thick grey foundation coating that's supposed to stay flexible and never dry out. I just hope it applies decent with the cold weather. I'll try on a small spot and see efore I have forms off so I know before hand. If it doesn't apply well I won't backfill tight against wall until spring.

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[AZ Pete]

Does the coating say anything about how soon it can be applied?


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[Finallygotit]

Does the coating say anything about how soon it can be applied?

And at what temperature?

 

[Lunker]

I fell asleep during movie and now it's raining. That should help slow the cure.
Thinking about what should have been done different.
I should not have let driver put more water in when my uncle asked him to. It was already wet enough and I told my uncle that as he asked for more water. I should have spoke up but didn't because I thought he knew better than I did. I hope I don't have issues because of that.
I should have stopped everyone and took charge and set the pace instead of expecting everyone to know what to do and let my uncle set the pace faster and sloppier than it should have been. He dumped two wheelbarrows trying to take too much and instead of waiting for help just dumped the rest of wheelbarrows quickly which dumped it right over top of form and out the other side. I kept saying let's use buckets for back and get chute to sides and not even use wheelbarrows. He kept telling driver what to do and I should have spoke up.
Knowing what I know now I realize why my first house driveway turned out so terribly. Everything I questioned my uncle from my research on he blew off as unnessisary steps and I listened to him assuming his experience and my lack there of was just slowing down the job.
I should have stopped and used ******** along the way as well or had my uncle doing that instead of flying around dumping overloaded wheelbarrows.
It's too late now and all I can do is hope for the best. No amount of stressing can change the mistakes I've made and allowed him to make deviating from best practices to achieve the best pour possible. I should have been more clear with my wife on doing the video and had a backup plan to taking it when she couldn't. Trail camera etc.
As well as I planned I could have planned better and I made way more mistakes than I should have.
When I pour the slab next spring I'm tempted to pour it myself with friends and not tell my uncle until after its already down so he can help doing finishing only.
Better yet I should find someone else that needs help and get the experience before doing my own slab. My garage can stay gravel for a while until I'm ready to do the quality job that should be done.


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Your way over thinking this.

1. I see no reason why you would need to keep it wet. It's not 100 deg in summer

2. Can't complain or 2nd guess free Labor.

3. Be glad you have an uncle who is interested in helping. I have no Uncle or Dad around to help me . Been doing everything my whole life myself - 42 years

4. It's not too cold. I wouldn't worry about the cure

 

[rmmiller]

I'm no expert but I would expect the spilled concrete to be brittle, I would bet the walls will have plenty of strength.

 

[Sparkynutz]

Plan B the stuff I have is Gray shield. Acrylic elastomeric rubber coating.
Pail states "application temperature must be a minimum of 60* and rising and do not apply within 24 hours if temperature is expected to drop below 50*"
Looks like I may be waiting to backfill until spring. I don't know what else to do but want to coat it right before placing w inch foam against wall and backfilling.
The foam should help keep it from getting too cold and also spread any hydraulic pressure if the ground gets saturated with water.
Maybe I could put foam in place anyways to keep wall clean and half *** minimal backfilling for now.

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[wssix99]

I don't see how the chance for bad things to happen is any worse now than when it was supported almost 3 feet installing the forms

Wind. This is the time of year when we can get wicked awful wind storms.

I probably won't fill yet inside and only grade exterior slightly until spring and see if it stays dry.

Best to fill the inside and outside at the same rate so the pressures equalize. The big stresses don't come from the dirt resting on the outside of the wall. They come from the hydraulic pressures of the water that the dirt holds.

 

[Sparkynutz]

I will only backfill outside maybe 4 inches if that. Just enough to hold the foam in place until spring then dig back out and finish it correctly before filling inside and outside at similar rates.
I had one day with 45mph winds and another with 40mph winds along with a few windy storms while garage was up without issue. Another week should be easily doable.
I stopped watering concrete and took insulation and form off driveway triangle. I hope wall looks as nice as that turned out.
There were voids in side but I didnt puddle it as much as I should have. Im sure it will be just fine for my application.

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[1949 caddyman]

If you get rain or strong winds your faom may blow or float away.

 

[Sparkynutz]

Do I just leave outside forms on till spring then?

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[Vintage Veloce]

Something like this maybe?
Special cold applied waterproofing: Hydralastic 836
There have to be solutions, lots of places pour when it's cold.
I've also seen tar based stuff... maybe that could work?

 

[Vintage Veloce]

This stuff also seems to be spec'd for cold weather application:
Tuff-N-Dry

 

[wssix99]

If you get rain or strong winds your faom may blow or float away.

Or the whole garage may float away! (Just like empty swimming pools do in Florida.)

 

[wssix99]

Something like this maybe?
Special cold applied waterproofing: Hydralastic 836
There have to be solutions, lots of places pour when it's cold.
I've also seen tar based stuff... maybe that could work?

I've got just the thing...

 

[TractorJeff]

Take the forms off!
I'm sure even your Uncle would agree!

 

[Motoman1100]

Sparky,
The very first thing I did at work today was logon to the computer and go to your thread. I thought about you and your project a couple times this weekend and I'm happy it worked out for you.

I had to laugh when you talked about your uncle...because he sounds just like my uncle
and my Stepdad, too... My uncle has run his own HVAC for like 35 years and he is complete production and very little, if at all, quality. He's always willing to help, but you have to think real hard before asking. HA.

And my stepdad was there ANYTIME I needed him and even though he went to trade school I swear he knew nothing about finish carpentry.... But I love him and I know he enjoyed helping so I usually asked knowing I'll have to fix several things after. My stepdad passed away a year ago and I wish that he was still in my garage screwing something up.

Congrats again GJ brother. We're happy for you.

 

[Sparkynutz]

[emoji106]
I think of that too. My grandma stopped and wouldn't be quiet for 2 seconds the entire time my wife actually took video.
Looking past the issues is easier knowing life is too short and someday you'll miss them "helping"

That swimming pool pic is crazy.
Hopefully with weight of garage on top that won't happen.

My buddy that helped build forms is coming over tomorrow to help remove them or atleast start and see what it looks like.
Weather is supposed to be in 20's so I should probably protect the wall somehow.
Maybe staw bales? I'm going to need that when I do my yard anyways.
I've looked into all kinds of coatings. A few out there but not a single one I've found with any way to buy the stuff or even a listed installer in my state.
There's one well known place in wisconsin that I know does that work but they don't have name of any of the products they use listed on website. I'll call them and try to get a quote. Back to same bs from concrete contractors probably.
I was back to work last night. I swear they left everything to fix for us. Terrible night and barely got any sleep this morning. Hopefully rest of week will be better
And I get some stuff on garage wrapped up.

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[wssix99]

That swimming pool pic is crazy.
Hopefully with weight of garage on top that won't happen.

The calculation is easy. Water is 64 pounds per cubic foot. Your bathtub holds 26 * 26 * 2 = 1352 cf. So, your garage and concrete would need to weigh 1352*64 = 43 tons in order for it not to float. (Assuming that it's backfilled all the way and you got a worst-case scenario flood.) Take the proportion of your backfill and apply it to that 43 tons and you can scale that back.

I would go with the straw and then sheet plastic all the openings and you should be good. (You are probably find as-is, anyway.)

 

[Sparkynutz]

If I get 2ft of water next to garage my basement will have about 5ft of water in it.
The worst it has been for me was about 2 inches of water above old slab. Your math is close but shouldn't be how much my bathtub holds but rather how much volume of water it displaces including the slab.
So 8 inch slab+2 inches above slab +2 inches for worst case scenario=12"
1x26x26= 676cf×64= 43,264lb
Being a mono slab it's not 8" the whole thickness but probably closer to 6" as an average.
A slab 26x26x6" thick weighs approximately 48,000lb.
That's not including weight of the wall which if my math is correct is just over 20,000lb plus weight of garage approximately 14,000lb
48k+20k+14k = 82,000lb of water required to make it float.
82,000÷64=1281cuft of water
26x26 garage displaces 56.33cuft per inch of height. 1281/56.33= 22.75" of water.
So my garage would theoretically float before water would rise above the new slab height.
That is if it didn't leak through cracks into the full inside the garage.


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[Platonic Solid]

Talk about going over the deep end -LOL. I would want to get the building back down on the walls as soon as it's safe to do so. With my garage raise I've noticed that even though everything is very stable, dimensions are constantly changing if only due to temperature expansion/contraction and settling.

 

[wssix99]

shouldn't be how much my bathtub holds but rather how much volume of water it displaces including the slab.

Correct. You have a mighty heavy slab.

Watching the leakage as you go forward will be interesting. If things don't pass through water easily, that means that you could have significant hydraulic pressure behind the walls. (Not enough to float the building, but strong enough to stress the walls.)

 

[Sparkynutz]

That's why I poured 9 inch walls with lots of rebar. The front is the only side that will be graded to the top. The rest of the walls will be graded between 8-12 inches lower. I'm pretty sure there will be more pressure outward than inward because the inside will be filled to the top and have a heavy slab on top.
My buddy came over this morning and we got all the stakes removed with a removal tool I made. Some were really in there so much so that it bent the 1/4" thick angle iron and broke my welds. I only broke off one stake and all the rest came right out.
All the forms are also removed except front which will be much easier digging out with skid loader and one form inside trapped by my cribbing and drain pipe.
I'm trying to get 75 bales of straw. Waiting to hear back.
Hopefully I don't need to do the inside too or I'll need about 60 more.
I kinda wish I had figured something else out for garage door without removing the track. Nw I can't close it or put track back on until the garage is down.
I need to scrape the crud off corners and imperfections with a brick and get my sill seal in place. As soon as that's done I'll probably be careful and set it down probably around the end of the week. We banged on the forms pretty hard and even pried against the wall gently. Seemed pretty solid.
There's a couple bad voids on inside of front that definitely need to be patched. Any recommendations what would be the best thing to patch with?
Mortar? Vinyl patch cement?
I called Suredry about coating my wall with something heated so I can just finish this up. Waiting to hear back.
Flex seal only seals temporary and advertised as such. I have a couple cans too but not worth half assing it now.
No time to edit video of pour so I jumped to part 7 today to give everyone a closer look how it turned out.

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[GLTHFJ60]

Looks awesome man. Damn fine work.

 

[JohnnieMo]

Great work. You have the beginnings of a nice swimming pool there.

 

[RickP]

The new walls look great -- nice work!

You probably don't need to worry about the voids on the inside of the wall, because they'll be covered with gravel soon anyway. If you do want to fill them, I'd just use hydraulic cement (it expands as it cures, instead of shrinking). They definitely don't need to be pretty.

 

[1949 caddyman]

Wow, great job. You should be very proud of what you accomplished!

 

[Platonic Solid]

Well Done! This thread has convinced me that I never want to pour my own concrete walls. And when the time comes, hire in early spring and hope to be done by fall. I'll gladly pay someone else to do it, cause dang that's a lot of work. I know you would have gladly paid someone to do it, but that wasn't happening.

 

[spudley]

Looks great. You da man Sparky!

 

[Sparkynutz]

I'm just ****. Less chance to leak the better. I know it will be covered but I will know it's there.
I'm trying to decide what to patch with.
Mortar, vinyl patch, regular bag mix concrete, or anchoring cement. I have partial bags of all of the above on hand.
Anchoring cement I think is supposed to expand while rest shrink as they cure. I'm tempted to just mix some of each together and see how it turns out.

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[MWitte]

What about using a membrane type waterproofing? Probably more expensive, but it can be applied in low temperatures. I plan to use something like the Grace Bituthene System when I excavate to address some foundation leaking issues at my current house.

I feel your pain dealing with contractors. I had hired a concrete contractor to do a garage addition at my previous house after a lot of searching. A couple days later he was sitting on the bleachers at a local ball game talking on his phone about how he was going to 'take me for a ride'. My brother was sitting right behind him at the time. I was so fed up that I cancelled the garage addition and bought a new truck instead.

 

[firebirdparts]

I would never have thought about it floating, but if you are concerned about that, you need to make sure it leaks.

I noticed up above you mentioned compacting the fill. If you fill with rock on that old slab then in my opinion it won't compact and you really don't need to try. If you fill it with clay or shale, then it would compact, but that would put outward pressure on the walls. The corners of course will be strong, and the front will be supported, so that just leaves the sides as a potential to move under pressure. If it was me I would not put any undue outward pressure on it. You've done a great job!

 

[Sparkynutz]

Thought of membrane but the crack between new concrete and old is not flat and there's streaks of spillage on old slab under the wall. Heated spray on would probably be ideal. Hopefully that's what the place does that's giving me a quote tomorrow.

Garage will be filled with 1.5" clearstone with a layer of road gravel on top and bottom to give a flatter compactible layer

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[Sparkynutz]

Well. Suredry was a waste of time. Stupid call lady. I asked her 4 times if I could find out what products they use and if they had anything that would work for me. All she would say is they'll have to look at it to decide that and wouldn't let me talk to an installer or anyone just wait till they come. The guy cones and says they mainly do interior drain tile and only use peel and stick outside. He said that wouldn't work that well having adhesion issues too.
I thought of calling some hot tar roofing companies but decided against wasting the money and time. I will just put my insulation against it for the winter leaving the sheets whole and overlapping two layers of it and pound stakes behind it and partial backfill to hold it. When it warms up I'll yank the sheets out and seal it with the grey seal I already have then cut insulation to size put against wall and backfill.
This will be the most cost effective solution and probably safest bet on good adhesion as well as having insulation on in time for the cold snap low 12* coming tomorrow night.
I backed my trailer load of insulation in and truck drove over the driveway triangle I poured. No crack. I'm hoping that's a sign that I can set garage down tomorrow and get garage door track back on and closed so it stays warmer inside the garage.
I forgot to tip over my rain barrel and it froze last night breaking the plastic drain valve at the bottom so I know it's getting colder.
No cracks in walls yet and praying it stays that way.

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[ADSR]

Well. Suredry was a waste of time. Stupid call lady. I asked her 4 times if I could find out what products they use and if they had anything that would work for me. All she would say is they'll have to look at it to decide that and wouldn't let me talk to an installer or anyone just wait till they come. The guy cones and says they mainly do interior drain tile and only use peel and stick outside. He said that wouldn't work that well having adhesion issues too.
I thought of calling some hot tar roofing companies but decided against wasting the money and time. I will just put my insulation against it for the winter leaving the sheets whole and overlapping two layers of it and pound stakes behind it and partial backfill to hold it. When it warms up I'll yank the sheets out and seal it with the grey seal I already have then cut insulation to size put against wall and backfill.
This will be the most cost effective solution and probably safest bet on good adhesion as well as having insulation on in time for the cold snap low 12* coming tomorrow night.
I backed my trailer load of insulation in and truck drove over the driveway triangle I poured. No crack. I'm hoping that's a sign that I can set garage down tomorrow and get garage door track back on and closed so it stays warmer inside the garage.
I forgot to tip over my rain barrel and it froze last night breaking the plastic drain valve at the bottom so I know it's getting colder.
No cracks in walls yet and praying it stays that way.

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Why not buy torch on membrane and a tiger torch and do it yourself?

 

[Sparkynutz]

I didn't think of the torch. I even have one for burning weeds.
I don't trust good adhesion to old slab with the drips that hardened to it. I tried grinding them off with the diamond grinder and they are really on there. I don't have the time or patience to get the drips off to use sheet material effectively without the risk of water seeping up from the bottom anyways.

I ground off all the high spots and goobers on top and corners of wall then removed all the plastic tubes from the rods.
3 were pinched and had to be cut off. The rest came off easily.
I lifted the garage on all 4 jacks just barely off the cribbing then removed another 2x and cracked all of the jacks just barely going around making sure they lowered as evenly as possible.
The garage is now resting on cribbing 3/4" above the wall. Just enough room to get sill seal in place and lower the rest of the way when I'm ready.
I put the foam in place around 3 walls and decided front forms will stay on until spring. I dont have the patience or feel like digging out the clear stone multiple times when I could just do it once in spring and shovel it right into the garage.
Next step is get sill seal in place, lower and get the wood bracing and accross garage door off, track back on and garage door closed.
I'll leave the main beams in place for time being and keep just a touch of weight on the jacks.
I'm an organization freak and it bugs the **** out of me how messy everything is.
I brought a load of wood stakes and everything small to my uncle for firewood.
Friday I'll load the truck with as much as possible to return to menards. Concrete blocks and all the treated 4x6 that I didn't even use. The less **** laying around the better.
Sure looks different with white foam on it.

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