Tools from the old world

[mr.lemons]

Picked up a pair of Rennsteig wirestrippers off Ebay for £5. Nobody else bid. Didn't really know what I was bidding on so didn't notice that the 'length stop' is missing. I assume the 'length stop' is used as a guide so you can be consistent with the amount of insulation that is removed. This can be done by eye but I have emailed Rennsteig to see if I can purchase the part separately. The pliers seem to be in good condition with sharp blades.

I find them a little awkward to use as you need to line the wire up correctly to the appropriate size cutters. The Knipex version has a plastic wire guide that may make things a bit easier. Should have used a coloured wire for better visibility.

Images from Knipex show the missing 'length stop' and Knipex only 'wire guide.'

There are many different configurations available of the replaceable blades. Luckily this pair came with blades that I can use. '708 231 3 Tool for PVC cable.'

Info on the other available blades here.
https://www.rennsteig.com/en/products/stripping/195-insulation-stripper-for-special-applications

Compared to my other strippers which I assume are familiar to most people under various brands. The cheaper strippers are easier to use as they automatically adjust to different wire gauges. Clearly not as durable as the Rennsteig though.

Cheap (top) vs Rennsteig (bottom). The Cheap strippers leave teeth marks in the insulation and make a rougher cut.

 

[mr.lemons]

^
Hazet 600LG will still deform under load they feel a little soft, TopTul I haven't really put that much stress on the open end, but they do flex on the ring end.

I'm maybe expecting too much. Don't often put much torque on the open end but needed to today and struggled with the Stahlwille. Will be fun to compare even if I don't find anything better.

 

[mr.lemons]

I purchased the Matador ratchet posted previously on this thread from reichelt.com and paid £8.95 postage (Germany to UK). I returned the ratchet as it had a faulty mechanism and asked for a replacement. Instead of sending a replacement they refunded the cost of the ratchet minus postage. I contacted them to ask for a replacement and they said I would need to reorder and pay postage again. I'm maybe a bit spoiled by Amazon's returns service and shouldn't expect it from smaller companies but the worry of getting another faulty ratchet and inducing more costs has put me off. Hope to find a better deal on the ratchet some day as I liked it.

Replaced the Matador ratchet with a less interesting but hopefully more reliable Stahlwille 435QR N. Happy to report quite low back drag for an 80 tooth ratchet. I think it feels very similar to the Matador in this respect but it's hard to say when not comparing side by side. On a parr with Gedore 60 tooth and certainly less back drag than Facom 72 tooth pearheads which are my benchmark as I've used them the most. I've read some comments on this thread saying there is nearly zero back drag on these ratchets. I would not really agree with this (going off my ratchet only). I really need to try Ko-Ken to get more perspective.

Typical Stahlwille slightly lumpy/bumpy satin chrome finish (not a complaint, I like it) and quite soft comfortable oval profile rubber handle. Anyone had durability issues with Stahlwille rubber grips?

The ratchet comes with instructions on how to replace the internal parts. There is also an official instruction vid on youtube. Despite this I still haven't found a way to open these without marring the plastic cover and it looks like the repair kit does not include a replacement. Wish they made a non FOD fine tooth version.

Printed instructions show prying from under the removed split ring but this method did not work for me.

Youtube vid shows prying at the top which leaves pry marks in the soft plastic.

Inside.

 

[dutchgray]

I'm maybe expecting too much. Don't often put much torque on the open end but needed to today and struggled with the Stahlwille. Will be fun to compare even if I don't find anything better.

Those marks look like what you get when you use an open end at a high angle because you can't get down flat on the nut and the load is all on the corner of the jaw as it goes over the corner of the nut, most makes of spanners will do that, or they have been double spannered. They don't look to have spread at all which is good.

 

[mr.lemons]

No misuse, just eat too much spinach I guess. I've ordered a couple of similar length spanners to compare.

 

[SRSemenza]

Images from Knipex show the missing 'length stop' and Knipex only 'wire guide.'

There are many different configurations available of the replaceable blades. Luckily this pair came with blades that I can use. '708 231 3 Tool for PVC cable.'


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmm, I have the Knipex version but it did not come with the wire guide, just the length stop.

That guide would help.

BTW, what a deal you got!

Seth

 

[mrspeed]

I decided to pick up this 1/4" Expert ratchet model number E030605, since I found it on sale for pretty cheap. Here's a picture of it next to the quarter inch Bahco "dual 80" ratchet for comparison. I have no idea where are the Expert ratchet is made as there is no indication on the packaging, website, or the tool itself. Without an indicated COO and considering Expert is considered the budget line from Facom these days, I would guess Taiwan.

Taking it apart, I was surprised to find that it seems like a pretty decent ratchet. It has a 72-tooth gear and feels smoother than expected, though not quite as smooth as the dual 80 72-tooth Bahco/Snap On 1/4" ratchets. The switch is a thick semi-circular piece of metal, I'm assuming sintered, with two small ball bearings on the front on side to prevent it from rubbing against the inside of the cover plate.

In the top is a key slot for the switch pin and switch pin spring to slide into. It's interesting that the switch pin is a flat piece of thin metal that pages against the pawl with its edge instead of a thicker piece of metal that comes to a rounded point to contact the pawl. I hope that's not a weak point of this design.

Does this design look familiar to anyone? I'm wondering if it's similar to the internals of the Facom/USAG pear head ratchets.




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[Skin]

Does this design look familiar to anyone?

Same internals as DeWalt ratchets.

 

[mr.lemons]

For fans of German rock music and Wera tools.

W:O:A - Toolkit - Wera x Wacken

https://www.metaltix.com/w-o-a-toolkit-wera-x-wacken-merchandise-51567.html#tour51567

 

[measuredtwice]

For fans of German rock music and Wera tools.

W:O:A - Toolkit - Wera x Wacken

https://www.metaltix.com/w-o-a-toolkit-wera-x-wacken-merchandise-51567.html#tour51567

Is that the magnetic precision driver that was previously only sold in an Advent calendar set? A lot of folks wanted one. I would like to see it as a regular production item.

 

[mr.lemons]

^ Yes, looks like it anyway. Strange not to be available separately or as a simple set with just the bit driver and some common sized bits for phones, tablets etc.

Looks to be a 2017 calendar set available on Amazon.de.

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B079RB6MJF/

 

[JBH]

Correction. The Stahlwille breaker bar pivot has a split washer inside so the tightness and ability to hold a socket parallel is by design not just a dry pivot as I originally thought.

I haven't taken either of mine apart, but that's what I figured.

FWIW my ancient black rubber handle one still feels about as tight as my ~6mo old one.

^ Wish they sold that nut spinner separately. I've found Wiha's Microfinish handles to be exceptional for use with oily hands. Googling the part number doesn't bring up any matches apart from your pics.

I managed to find out a little more about this set.

This page from an undated Farnell catalog shows the set. The foam is quite slightly differently from mine but all the pieces are the same. A search for the model number led me to this German forum with two posts.

https://www.werkzeug-forum.de/viewtopic.php?t=264 - this one has a reply by a
Wiha employee who asserts that all the parts are "the quality you'd expect from Wiha" and confirms that the ratchet has 18T.

https://www.werkzeug-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3154 - this one says Wiha stopped production of this set in 2006.

Maybe I should've researched that before I bit.
I don't know if, had I known the ratchet wasn't Koken, I would've snapped it up. That said, even with Transatlantic shipping it wasn't that expensive - more than a working lunch but less than a nice dinner for two - so no harm done.

Replaced the Matador ratchet with a less interesting but hopefully more reliable Stahlwille 435QR N. Happy to report quite low back drag for an 80 tooth ratchet...I've read some comments on this thread saying there is nearly zero back drag on these ratchets. I would not really agree with this (going off my ratchet only). I really need to try Ko-Ken to get more perspective.

Definitely agree with you and disagree with the "nearly zero back drag." I think you're about right. In 1/4" drive I'd say roughly the same as 90T Nepros, a little better than 72T Facom, a lot better than Snapon Dual72 or Gearwrench 2*60XP, a little worse than Proto 24T, and a lot worse than Koken/Zeal.

Yes to the last point.

Is that the magnetic precision driver that was previously only sold in an Advent calendar set? A lot of folks wanted one. I would like to see it as a regular production item.

I would definitely buy one if offered separately. Wera, what's the holdup?

 

[mrspeed]

Same internals as DeWalt ratchets.

Thanks, that makes sense. I only have one DeWalt ratchet, but it's the 1/2" drive round head ratchet made in Italy, which I've read shares internals with the Facom/USAG round head ratchets.

For fans of German rock music and Wera tools.

W:O:A - Toolkit - Wera x Wacken

https://www.metaltix.com/w-o-a-toolkit-wera-x-wacken-merchandise-51567.html#tour51567

It's 61EUR for me including shipipng. That's a bit steep for me, but that's a seriously cool set.

Is that the magnetic precision driver that was previously only sold in an Advent calendar set? A lot of folks wanted one. I would like to see it as a regular production item.

According to the description, that is the magnetic micro driver.


Here's another ratchet tear-down. It's a Beta 3/8" drive pear head ratchet, model number 910 M/55. No COO on the ratchet or packaging, which is typical for Beta, but several websites say it's made in Japan.

It's a solid feeling ratchet, but only 24 teeth and not particularly great back-drag. As usual with Beta tools, it has excellent polished chrome plating.

The dual pawl design has one spring per pawl, and the switch doesn't seem to be removable as there is a pin that goes through and is pressed on each side. I'm not sure how strong it will be given the low tooth count on the gear and the fact that there are only two deep pawl teeth in contact with the gear when engaged. The gear, upon inspection, does seem well made, but I really have no idea how strong it is.

One thing I like about this design is how the unique shape of the switch causes the direction to switch from one direction to the other. Usually, switching keeps the pawls engaged while switching which causes the gear to move by a degree or two in the direction you're switching. This design though, completely disengages both gears in the center, which means the gear doesn't rotate at all when switching, and it also means if you leave the switch in the middle, the gear rotates freely. You can see this in the last picture. I can't imagine that being useful, but I it was interesting.




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[Jack84]

Thanks, that makes sense. I only have one DeWalt ratchet, but it's the 1/2" drive round head ratchet made in Italy, which I've read shares internals with the Facom/USAG round head ratchets.



It's 61EUR for me including shipipng. That's a bit steep for me, but that's a seriously cool set.



According to the description, that is the magnetic micro driver.


Here's another ratchet tear-down. It's a Beta 3/8" drive pear head ratchet, model number 910 M/55. No COO on the ratchet or packaging, which is typical for Beta, but several websites say it's made in Japan.

It's a solid feeling ratchet, but only 24 teeth and not particularly great back-drag. As usual with Beta tools, it has excellent polished chrome plating.

The dual pawl design has one spring per pawl, and the switch doesn't seem to be removable as there is a pin that goes through and is pressed on each side. I'm not sure how strong it will be given the low tooth count on the gear and the fact that there are only two deep pawl teeth in contact with the gear when engaged. The gear, upon inspection, does seem well made, but I really have no idea how strong it is.

One thing I like about this design is how the unique shape of the switch causes the direction to switch from one direction to the other. Usually, switching keeps the pawls engaged while switching which causes the gear to move by a degree or two in the direction you're switching. This design though, completely disengages both gears in the center, which means the gear doesn't rotate at all when switching, and it also means if you leave the switch in the middle, the gear rotates freely. You can see this in the last picture. I can't imagine that being useful, but I it was interesting.




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I have the 1/2 inch Beta. Good quality, found it to be noisy though. So I greased the gears. Much quieter and smoother.

 

[Dakkyz]

The beta ratchet looks like a King Tony one, beta have shifted alot of production to Taiwan very little is still made in Italy, spanners/wrenche's probably sockets and screw driver's, but alot is Taiwanese now.

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[measuredtwice]

I'm also in for one of the Wera magnetic precision drivers if they make them available for separate purchase.

 

[mr.lemons]

PB Swiss slotted.

I posted a while ago that the Phillips black heavy duty drivers have larger handles and thicker shanks than the corresponding standard red SwissGrip drivers. Not the case with slotted as they don't have larger handles or thicker shanks compared to the standard versions. They do however have shorter shanks.

 

[jimmyin3D]

PB Swiss slotted.

I posted a while ago that the Phillips black heavy duty drivers have larger handles and thicker shanks than the corresponding standard red SwissGrip drivers. Not the case with slotted as they don't have larger handles or thicker shanks compared to the standard versions. They do however have shorter shanks.

I have the Pb Swiss heavy duty drivers and I’m pretty sure they are the same size as the regular screwdrivers. Maybe I got new stock? Or old stock? Idk I’ll post up pictures later.

 

[mr.lemons]

I don't know if they have altered the sizing at any point. These are both PH2. Heavy duty has longer/thicker handle and thicker shank. Similar differences in PH1 also.

The end caps on the black handles have changed over time. Plain caps, stamped caps then laser etched. The slotted in the pics have laser etched caps.

 

[mr.lemons]

Hazet 803-PH1 + 803-PH2. Textured hard plastic handles. Already have these in Pozi for home use and Torx used at work. The torx handles and tips show very little wear after about 18 months daily use. No COO on the packaging or drivers. I assume that they are Oplast but not sure.

 

[MWEric]

For fans of German rock music and Wera tools.

W:O:A - Toolkit - Wera x Wacken

https://www.metaltix.com/w-o-a-toolkit-wera-x-wacken-merchandise-51567.html#tour51567

Thanks for posting this. I ordered one yesterday.

 

[mr.lemons]

^ Awesome. Hope you like it.

I emailed Wera about the precision bit holder. They replied 'Unfortunately the handle was a special edition and is not available to purchase individually.' Not much info but very good of them to reply.

^
Hazet 600LG will still deform under load they feel a little soft, TopTul I haven't really put that much stress on the open end, but they do flex on the ring end.

Is that a non-recommendation (sorry words failing me) for the long Toptuls? Does the flex in the box end seam worse than other spanners?

 

[anetode]

No COO on the packaging or drivers. I assume that they are Oplast but not sure.

Pretty sure all their "Trinomic" drivers are made by Witte.

 

[losvre]

Hazet 803-PH1 + 803-PH2. Textured hard plastic handles. Already have these in Pozi for home use and Torx used at work. The torx handles and tips show very little wear after about 18 months daily use. No COO on the packaging or drivers. I assume that they are Oplast but not sure.

These are made in Slovenia by Oplast like the Gedore ones.

If you don’t see Made in Germany then is not!


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[mrspeed]

Hazet 803-PH1 + 803-PH2. Textured hard plastic handles. Already have these in Pozi for home use and Torx used at work. The torx handles and tips show very little wear after about 18 months daily use. No COO on the packaging or drivers. I assume that they are Oplast but not sure.

According to their catalogue and several other websites, the Torx and security Torx Trinamic drivers are made in Germany, while the Phillips, slotted, and Pozidrive Trinamic drivers are made in Slovenia, which is where Oplast is. Seems odd to have the same style of screwdriver made in two different places. Maybe it's due to tooling requirements for the tips.

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[Dakkyz]

^ Awesome. Hope you like it.

I emailed Wera about the precision bit holder. They replied 'Unfortunately the handle was a special edition and is not available to purchase individually.' Not much info but very good of them to reply.



Is that a non-recommendation (sorry words failing me) for the long Toptuls? Does the flex in the box end seam worse than other spanners?

I picked up mine for £30-35 can't remember the exact price, for that price I really do recommend you won't be disappointed, the flex is under a lot of stress and for the price I paid its fine, they don't feel as if their going to break nor do they take the form so yeah if you can find them cheap enough I would buy.

My Hazet ones feel a lot stronger but cost 3x as much, the only other long spanners I have felt flex are Sealey long combination spanners the jaws open up on those..

Compared to the Hazet 600LG the toptul are a tad shorter, thinner, but a nice finish and mine came in a over sized plastic tray.

I constantly see Toptul been around £80-120
Hazet 600LG/10 - £100-150 I would go with Hazet any day.

 

[Olafur]

I've been using Stahlwille 14 spanners for a while now and have found that the open ends spread and deform quite easily. Not sure if it's because I'm not used to the extra length and therefore extra leverage or if they are a bit soft. Going to try Hazet again and maybe the Toptul long spanners to compare.

In general Stahlwille 14 spanners don't have very stiff open ends. It's decent and gives good access but not the strongest. However they are normally quite hard and you don't see marks on them and they usually last forever.

But I have seen very similar damage to Stahlwille 14 open end - on my little used 10mm wrench. I sort of wrote it off as being a dud, something went wrong in the hardening process or whatever. Strange to see another one of the same size with similar damage.

 

[Dave455]

I was ordering some tools for a friend, and couldn’t resist adding a couple of toys for myself. First, the new Stahlwille short handle 1/4 drive ratchet with the all steel handle. I much prefer steel handles to the trendy/cheap soft handles that abound, so couldn’t resist adding the matching bit driver.

Also got the 5 inch Knipex Cobra’s. While ‘water pump’ pliers that small seem like they might have very limited uses, I remember my Dad carrying a very similar sized pair for years. No other design gives you such a strong grip in a small package!

 

[Bogdan M.]

Could you please post the part number for the Stahlwille 1/4 ratchet, short handle with quick release?

 

[mr.lemons]

Could you please post the part number for the Stahlwille 1/4 ratchet, short handle with quick release?

418QR

info here
https://www.stahlwille.co.uk/en/news/news-detail/news/14-mini-fine-tooth-ratchets-1/

 

[Dave455]

Could you please post the part number for the Stahlwille 1/4 ratchet, short handle with quick release?

mr.lemons beat me to it!

The other Stahlwille ratchets need an “N” suffix to ensure you get the fine tooth version. This is a newish release and it’s only available in fine tooth, so it’s just a “418 QR”

I got mine from TBS Aachen who have a bit of a deal, or at least did 2 weeks ago!

Was shipped as part of a big order so the shipping from Germany wasn’t a factor.

Problem is, there is now one obvious deficiency among my 1/4 ratchets and bit ratchets...!

 

[mr.lemons]

Witte 691008 hook + pick set and Channellock 'Little Champ' 115mm flat nose pliers.

The picks are marked on the end of the handles. No Coo marked on the wallet or tools. I think Witte tools are mostly made in Germany.

Not sure if Channellock pliers are appropriate for this thread but were made in Germany.

 

[mr.lemons]

Played around with some 10mm spanners today to see how strong their open ends are. This was done to compare other brands to my Stahlwille which I found to be worryingly soft. Not in anyway scientific. Just wanted to see if there was any obvious difference in strength between them. The cheap bolts I had proved to be too soft so I stuck a 10mm allen key in a vice and tried to put enough force onto the spanners to open the jaws and slip off.

Spanners compared = Toptul Long (Taiwan), Facom 440 (Taiwan), Stahlwille 14 (Germany), Hazet 600N (Germany), Kincrome (China), Elora 205 (Germany).

I started using my bare hands and was able to apply enough force to make the Elora, Stahlwille, Facom and Toptul slip. The Elora was the easiest to make slip even though it is the shortest followed by the Stahlwille. The Facom and Toptul took quite a bit more effort. The extra length of the Toptul allowed me to comfortably apply more force so I think it did very well. I was unable to make the Hazet or Kincrome slip so I put on some thick gloves. Same result, both spanners would not slip. I revisited this later and still could not get them to fail.

Without torque measurements, equal length spanners and multiple test examples for each brand this is obviously a bit of a silly test. I am unable to grade the strength of the spanners in order but can say that the Elora and Stahlwille that I tested were significantly softer than the others and the Hazet and Kincrome were significantly stronger. The Toptul's extra length made it difficult to compare but it was clearly stronger than Stahlwille/Elora and I think Facom as well. I'm disappointed but will be selling my Stahlwille set and buying a set of the 30 Euro Toptuls while waiting for a deal on some Hazets. I don't want to talk about the Kincrome.

 

[mr.lemons]

Some pics from after the test. I realise these are pretty meaningless without knowing how much torque was applied but at least they show that I had a good go at them.

Toptul.

Facom.

Stahlwille.

Hazet.

Kincrome.

Elora.

 

[Bogdan M.]

418QR

info here
https://www.stahlwille.co.uk/en/news/news-detail/news/14-mini-fine-tooth-ratchets-1/

Thanks!

 

[Bogdan M.]

mr.lemons beat me to it!

The other Stahlwille ratchets need an “N” suffix to ensure you get the fine tooth version. This is a newish release and it’s only available in fine tooth, so it’s just a “418 QR”

I got mine from TBS Aachen who have a bit of a deal, or at least did 2 weeks ago!

Was shipped as part of a big order so the shipping from Germany wasn’t a factor.

Problem is, there is now one obvious deficiency among my 1/4 ratchets and bit ratchets...!

Thanks!

Very nice collection!

 

[target]

Nice. I got Toptul set series AAEX, and when is comparing open end to gedore wrench... Toptul is better in tollerances. When i measure with caliper on 13mm wrenches is about:
13.1mm Toptul and 13.7mm Gedore - Toptul AAEX is way better IMO.

 

[Dakkyz]

Interesting tests, the Stahlwille looked destroyed, but softer spanners will usually bend before giving up saving your hands, while the harder spanners will usually snap or give up and may cause damage to your hand.

The Hazet, Toptul, Elora so on have are well balanced in my opinion.

While the Stahlwille for the length seems really soft.

I have old indian made Gedore and Draper with no idea of COO but the rings ends blow out of those and I was lucky it wasn't under extreme loads or I probably would've broken my hand or something.

 

[M6erfan]

Some pics from after the test. I realise these are pretty meaningless without knowing how much torque was applied but at least they show that I had a good go at them.

Looks like you gave them a fair workout! Thanks for posting the info. Interesting.

If Toptul was easier to find in the U.S. I'd definitely give them a go.

 

[Olafur]

A member here did some testing on plenty of 13mm open ends wrenches he used in CNC operation. If memory serves me Stahlwille 14 did very well in his tests.

Regarding Toptul I think they state their long wrenches are for access, not extreme torque. Toptul has shorter wrenches advertised as 2 times the strength of the DIN standard. I have used them quite a bit and can confirm they are very strong and the open end easily matches Hazet 600N in stiffness and strength. I don't understand why they are not made longer. Strange product.