Tools from the old world

[mr.lemons]

Not sure if a addiction to PB Swiss dead blows but i really like em.

I've wanted a PB dead blow for ages. They look great.

Not very exciting tools but I resealed around the bath and sink at my Mum's house yesterday. Have always just used my finger to smooth out the sealant with ok results but watched some youtube vids that recommended these smoothing tools. Simple things but they are awesome. Wish I took pics of the results as I was so proud of myself lol. Looked like a pro did it.





No COO on the UK packaging but I Googled 'FugenMeister' and see they may be made in Germany. Think it translates to Groove or Joint Master.



Vid of them in use. It's an advert but shows clearly how they work minus getting the sealant all over your hands and clothes.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CvZV5oHXz0A" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[theamcguy]

Anybody have a US source or source that will ship to the US for the FugenMeister smoothing tools? TIA

 

[Dave455]

Not very exciting tools but I resealed around the bath and sink at my Mum's house yesterday. Have always just used my finger to smooth out the sealant with ok results but watched some youtube vids that recommended these smoothing tools. Simple things but they are awesome. Wish I took pics of the results as I was so proud of myself lol. Looked like a pro did it.

That’s a timely post, I’ve just been doing some sealing. Not my favourite job, I have to admit.

I’ve been using one of those ‘plastic finger’ things, which works o.k. but I think these look like an improvement.

I’ve been using some sealant called CT-1 which a carpenter friend told me about. It’s not cheap but it’s a vast improvement over the cheaper sealants.

 

[Reed Prince]

Anybody have a US source or source that will ship to the US for the FugenMeister smoothing tools? TIA

I couldn't quickly find a US source but did find a lot of similar items when I searched Amazon for "sealant finishing tool".

 

[garfieldzzz]

Anybody have a US source or source that will ship to the US for the FugenMeister smoothing tools? TIA

Not sure if available in the US but Würth carries the same parts in red.

 

[mr.lemons]

Facom 440XL

Not sure if they are new or I have just not seen them before. I thought Facom only made XL spanners in larger sizes (19mm+).

Weird to miss out 12mm and 18mm.

Another brand adding teeth in the open ends.

https://www.fac18.eu/uk-en/categori...xl-metric-high-torque-long-combination-wrench

 

[M6erfan]

Well, you keep using your Vessel’s, I’ll keep using my PB Swiss (among other makes) and everybody’s happy!

Dave, what is your experience with PB-S vs. Vessel cross tip drivers on JIS screws?

 

[OneDollarSaab]

Facom 440XL

Not sure if they are new or I have just not seen them before. I thought Facom only made XL spanners in larger sizes (19mm+).

Weird to miss out 12mm and 18mm.

Another brand adding teeth in the open ends.

I like the long pattern and the box/ring end protruding a little. Too bad these aren't really European...

 

[Dave455]

Dave, what is your experience with PB-S vs. Vessel cross tip drivers on JIS screws?

Well, I should probably say from the outset, that the majority of my experience with cross tip screws is with Pozidriv rather than Phillips. At the moment my ‘go to’ Pozidriv drivers are PB Swiss and Snap On, as well as some old British made Stanley and some Wera stainless steel drivers. I use the Wera’s exclusively on woodscrews with heads of dubious quality. I don’t have issues with any of ‘em!

Phillips I encounter much less, and JIS less still. I do have some PB Swiss Phillips and tend to use them most on electrical fittings, but the screws are regular Phillips, not JIS.

I have two Vessel Phillips drivers that I bought specifically for JIS screws. The fit seems to be excellent (as you might expect) and there is no noticeable wear so far, but all I’ve done with these is strip down and rebuild one bike, and undertake a handful of small jobs on Japanese vehicles.

I’ve never tried the PB in a JIS screw. As soon as I get that “oh oh, JIS screw” feeling I reach for the Vessel.

The only thing I don’t like about the Vessel is the striking caps. While they make the drivers more rugged, they spoil the balance, and if I was buying again I’d buy the regular!

 

[Dave455]

Facom 440XL

Not sure if they are new or I have just not seen them before. I thought Facom only made XL spanners in larger sizes (19mm+).

Weird to miss out 12mm and 18mm.

I think these are relatively new, although they may offer the long ones branded as Proto or Mac, as I think I’ve seen them somewhere before.

Yes, odd to include 14 but omit 12 (both JIS sizes) and include 16 not 18 (both ISO) but I’m sure they will get added.

I know that the regular length are Taiwanese made, but they are one of the few Taiwanese tools that I like. I own about four, and they live on one of my vehicles so don’t see a lot of use.

 

[mr.lemons]

Reasonably priced 6 point metric spanners available in the UK.

Sorry, this post will have limited interest to most people.

Britool Hallmark 'England' (but I think not made in England).

I have had a set of Britool England for a while. The box end works exactly as I hoped with no problems. The finish is impeccable and the chrome reminds me of proper Britool. Only sizes available are (New old stock) = 11, 12, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19mm so I had to make up the sizes from the newer 'Marque of Skill' Britool. I really like these spanners but the handles are really thin so hurt my delicate hands especially in the smaller sizes.

So I'm looking at what else is available. Longer pattern would be good too. Snap on would be awsome but £450 a set. Gearwrench is also on UK Ebay but I think they look too short. Which leaves...

Newer 'Marque of Skill' Britool Hallmark.

The 'Marque of Skill' are longer than 'England' in the smaller sizes but a little shorter in the larger sizes. They are thicker and more comfortable to use which is very noticeable in the smaller sizes. They have cheaper and thicker-looking chrome but still have a good finish.

Sealey Premier.

These are longer and thicker through all the sizes. The finish looks a bit cheap and nasty with some unfinished sharp edges and odd shaping. Not used properly yet so just first impressions.

Sharp edges inside the box end and odd shape on the tips of the 19mm open end. The 12mm tips are properly squared off so it is not intentional.

Size comparison 12mm

Size comparison 19mm

'England' compared to thicker Premier.

Both Hallmarks have the same off corner contact in the box ends. Premier has gone a bit nuts. Not sure if the extra cutouts have a purpose.

It's difficult to recommend any of them with much enthusiasm. I think the 'England' are a joy to look at and handle but hurt my hands in use and could be a bit longer to take advantage of the 6 point box ends.

'Marque of Skill' are a good length in the smaller sizes but feel a bit short and chunky in the larger sizes.

Premier are a good length and comfortable in all sizes but look and feel cheap. If they hold up well them looking cheap doesn't really matter I guess.

They all fit fasteners about the same.

COO for all is China or Taiwan I think.

I contacted Prime tools and asked his opinion about the spanners.

'In regards to the Britool Hallmark set, I would suggest this (Sealey Premier) is slightly better quality as Hallmark is the old style Britool's van sales.

Nevertheless, both sets are great and come with a life time guarantee.'

Not sure what his knowledge or experience of them is beyond selling them. They are always helpful though.

 

[Dave455]

Reasonably priced 6 point metric spanners available in the UK.

:

While 6 point sockets are relatively common, the majority of spanners are still 12 point, or to be more accurate, bihex (12 point could be bi hex or tri square, which are very different), which does result in a very limited choice.

It’s a shame, because I don’t think any of the brands quoted represent particularly good value for money. Spending just a little more (or in some cases similar money, spent more wisely) gets you to the ‘mid price’ tools. Gedore, King ****, even Stahlwille are all much better options if you can survive with bi hex.

Marking a spanner “England” when it’s imported is actually illegal in the U.K. It’s no defence to say “our company is based in England” or “it’s part of the company name”. If I’d bought one of those it would be winging it’s way to trading standards right now!

Britool “Hallmark” was originally a premier line, and they did sell it from vans. I don’t own any, but one of the other members here posted some pictures and they are obviously top end, and equally obviously a traditional British made spanner, with a better finish. I have seen similar in the aerospace world.

I believe that the current Britool Hallmark came about when Facom sold off their van sales division, but mistakenly allowed them the rights to the name. The tools sold by this “Britool Hallmark” are not the same as the original ones, but it’s often implied that they are.

A lifetime guarantee isn’t anything special these days. If you’re selling cheap tools at high markups it costs you little to offer a “lifetime guarantee”. In most cases it will cost you more in petrol or postage to warranty one tool than the tool costs.

I do own a few 6 point spanners, but I paid up and went with Snap On and Nepros. The former I bought before prices rocketed, which wasn’t that long back! In all honesty, while I use 6 point sockets as my ‘go to’ it doesn’t seem to matter so much with spanners. Maybe it’s the angle you are exerting the force?

 

[dutchgray]

Facom 440XL

Not sure if they are new or I have just not seen them before. I thought Facom only made XL spanners in larger sizes (19mm+).

Pretty sure those have been available with Mac or Proto on them for a while (with appropriate prices), will have to get a set if they do a complete size range though with teeth on the open end they become a specialist tool not general use for me. They must be new for Facom, been looking for a deal on another set of 440's for a bit and not seen those before. They did only do the 40L series from 19mm and up before, a fairly old fashioned design but a good spanner.

 

[dutchgray]

All my 6 point combination spanners are small sizes and a variety of makes. I haven't found much of a need for 6 point spanners myself beyond those.

 

[Reed Prince]

I’ve never tried the PB in a JIS screw. As soon as I get that “oh oh, JIS screw” feeling I reach for the Vessel.

I just compared PB and Vessel drivers on the case screws of a vintage Japanese ammeter I got off eBay recently. Three of the screw heads were in very good condition, and both drivers did an excellent job. One screw was slightly stripped, and the PB started to cam out when the screw started to provide considerable resistance, while the Vessel stayed tight until I worried that any more rotation might crack the old case.

 

[Skin]

I think these are relatively new, although they may offer the long ones branded as Proto or Mac, as I think I’ve seen them somewhere before.

Pretty sure those have been available with Mac or Proto on them for a while (with appropriate prices)

They look brand new based off the given lengths. The clones under the MAC label were never a 1:1 copy of the Facoms. There are some cosmetic differences like the Facoms having plain open ends and an I-Beam design while the MACs have modified open ends and fill in mid way down the beam.

MAC version 10mm is 7" (178mm), 19mm is 11.25" (286mm).

440XL 10mm is 8" (200mm), and 19mm 12.2" (309mm)

The original 440 10mm is 5.8" (145mm), 19mm 8.6" (216mm)

So the MACs are basically an in-between in terms of length and the XLs are a big step up from the original 440 in the leverage department being about 40% longer.

I kind of suspect the Facom/USAG/Sidchrome and MAC wrenches are made in 2 different facilities.

The 440XLs look really nice from the photos with an actual useful open end cut-outs. The MAC/Proto ones are basically useless as the cut-outs are on the wrong end. Plus I really like long combos. Just bizarre there is no 12mm or 18mm. I know they're European but 12mm holds most of a Japanese engine together and a lot of stuff on the body too.

 

[M6erfan]

While 6 point sockets are relatively common, the majority of spanners are still 12 point, or to be more accurate, bihex (12 point could be bi hex or tri square, which are very different), which does result in a very limited choice.

It’s a shame, because I don’t think any of the brands quoted represent particularly good value for money. Spending just a little more (or in some cases similar money, spent more wisely) gets you to the ‘mid price’ tools. Gedore, King ****, even Stahlwille are all much better options if you can survive with bi hex.

Marking a spanner “England” when it’s imported is actually illegal in the U.K. It’s no defence to say “our company is based in England” or “it’s part of the company name”. If I’d bought one of those it would be winging it’s way to trading standards right now!

Britool “Hallmark” was originally a premier line, and they did sell it from vans. I don’t own any, but one of the other members here posted some pictures and they are obviously top end, and equally obviously a traditional British made spanner, with a better finish. I have seen similar in the aerospace world.

I believe that the current Britool Hallmark came about when Facom sold off their van sales division, but mistakenly allowed them the rights to the name. The tools sold by this “Britool Hallmark” are not the same as the original ones, but it’s often implied that they are.

A lifetime guarantee isn’t anything special these days. If you’re selling cheap tools at high markups it costs you little to offer a “lifetime guarantee”. In most cases it will cost you more in petrol or postage to warranty one tool than the tool costs.

I do own a few 6 point spanners, but I paid up and went with Snap On and Nepros. The former I bought before prices rocketed, which wasn’t that long back! In all honesty, while I use 6 point sockets as my ‘go to’ it doesn’t seem to matter so much with spanners. Maybe it’s the angle you are exerting the force?

I just compared PB and Vessel drivers on the case screws of a vintage Japanese ammeter I got off eBay recently. Three of the screw heads were in very good condition, and both drivers did an excellent job. One screw was slightly stripped, and the PB started to cam out when the screw started to provide considerable resistance, while the Vessel stayed tight until I worried that any more rotation might crack the old case.

Thanks for the feedback gents

I often work with JIS, so while I love my PBS flat blade and Torx drivers ,I've been keeping with my Vessels for JIS.

 

[dede2897234]

Hi Guys,

I have not posted my European tool purchases in the last 9 months. I have been busy with school and work.

I purchased these security and tweezer tools during Wiha USA's 50% percent off sale last month:

https://flic.kr/p/2j9QfPU

Dave

 

[dede2897234]

I also purchased the following:

- Aven (made in Germany) mini tungsten carbide cutters

- EuroTool (made in Switzerland) 3/32" shank mini drill bits

https://flic.kr/p/2j9MTyo

https://flic.kr/p/2j9RTVm

Dave

 

[dede2897234]

Lastly, I forgot to include these Home Depot and Amazon purchases:

Knipex pliers

https://flic.kr/p/2j9MTza

Hultafors embedded nail remover

https://flic.kr/p/2j9RTVG

This nail remover cost me $50 US. For this price, I thought it was made in Sweden. When it arrived, I saw on the back of the packaging, it was made in China. A little disappointing. Hopefully, the tool lives up to the reviews!

Dave

 

[gf0012-aust]

Britool “Hallmark” was originally a premier line, and they did sell it from vans. I don’t own any, but one of the other members here posted some pictures and they are obviously top end, and equally obviously a traditional British made spanner, with a better finish. I have seen similar in the aerospace world.

Ive got some 40 yo Britool ring spanners and they are a superb piece of kit. I value them as much as my old australian sidchromes, dowidats and VBW's

on another note, I had this thrown in for free as part of a blacksmith tools buy up this morning, no idea what it is and no idea who the manufacturer is. Has an M cast on it. I have a small bench vise also with an M casting but no other manufacturer details

 

[dutchgray]

That's a sash clamp, you remove the pin and fix both ends over a 1" thick piece of timber or steel box section to make it whatever length you like, it needs another pin or a bolt.

 

[gf0012-aust]

That's a sash clamp, you remove the pin and fix both ends over a 1" thick piece of timber or steel box section to make it whatever length you like, it needs another pin or a bolt.

thanks!

do you know who the manufacturer is?

 

[mr.lemons]

In all honesty, while I use 6 point sockets as my ‘go to’ it doesn’t seem to matter so much with spanners. Maybe it’s the angle you are exerting the force?

Agreed, picking from a bad bunch. I'm considering Snap on in 10 and 12mm.

If you are of a certain age then showing you a pic of my first car should explain my fear of 12 point. Got into Triumphs after the Marina. All multiple owner cars on their last legs. Every bolt I leaned on would round off or had been butchered from previous repairs. That horrible feeling of a spanner slipping has stuck with me. British cars from the 70s and 80s were shockingly poor. I'm not rounding many bolts these days but still cringe every time I have to use 12 point.

Vid I posted previously shows how much more effective 6 point can be on rounded bolts.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DQJPv_AS4ag" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I just compared PB and Vessel drivers on the case screws of a vintage Japanese ammeter I got off eBay recently.

Thanks for the info. Very much get mixed feedback about this.

This nail remover cost me $50 US. For this price, I thought it was made in Sweden. When it arrived, I saw on the back of the packaging, it was made in China. A little disappointing. Hopefully, the tool lives up to the reviews!

Please post an update when you have put some use into the puller. + nice hauls.

 

[dutchgray]

thanks!

do you know who the manufacturer is?

Nope, on the cheaper ones the M often stands for malleable, which is the iron they are made from, many of these were only branded with a decal, even the good makes.

 

[Dave455]

Agreed, picking from a bad bunch. I'm considering Snap on in 10 and 12mm.

If you are of a certain age then showing you a pic of my first car should explain my fear of 12 point. Got into Triumphs after the Marina. All multiple owner cars on their last legs. Every bolt I leaned on would round off or had been butchered from previous repairs. That horrible feeling of a spanner slipping has stuck with me. British cars from the 70s and 80s were shockingly poor. I'm not rounding many bolts these days but still cringe every time I have to use 12 point.

.

Haha! I sympathise! We had a Marina in my family as a ‘spare’ vehicle, and I used to drive Triumph Dolomites.

In all fairness to British Leyland, I didn’t have particular problems with their bolts. Maybe yours had been particularly muller’d!

I do recall hex spanners and sockets appearing, and wondering why, then trying to do a radiator swap on a Ford Mondeo in my drive one morning. What a P.O.S. that was. I don’t know what the bolts were made of but they had the softest heads I’ve ever found and I rounded the lot!

 

[msevarino]

Dave, what is your experience with PB-S vs. Vessel cross tip drivers on JIS screws?

According to PB's catalog, PB phillips have been cut to handle both JIS and regular phillips since ~2014, if I remember right.

 

[mr.lemons]

and I used to drive Triumph Dolomites.

It was Dolomites for me too. Racing green Sprint was my dream car for a few years but I didn't have enough money for one. Broke two diffs on my 1.5tc drifting.

 

[Dave455]

Just for interest, here are some of my 6 point spanners.

I don’t actually use the Snap On combo’s that much. I bought them anticipating that I would, and they’re there if I do, but most times a bi hex spanner seems to work fine. I think that the fit of the spanner is probably as important as the type of hex, and I tend to use decent ones.

I do use the Nepros, which I love, and find very durable. I dropped my 13 x 15 onto concrete from the top of a Land Rover I was fitting a roof rack to. Amazingly, there was no noticeable damage to the finish!

 

[Dave455]

It was Dolomites for me too. Racing green Sprint was my dream car for a few years but I didn't have enough money for one. Broke two diffs on my 1.5tc drifting.

Ooh yes!

I aspired to the sprint too, but could never afford one.

I had a 1500 “HL” which had the Sprint style body, then an 1850, which was close, but had an 8 valve head and none of the other sprint mods.

As I recall, Triumph offered four different Dolomites, from the cheapest 1300 up to the 2.0 Sprint. The prices varied from just over 3k new, to well over 7k, so there was a huge difference in cost.

Amusingly, with the changes that were made as you went up the models, I don’t think there were any common parts between the 1300 and Sprint! Only in the U.K.....!

A few years ago I encountered a bright red Sprint in the Canary Islands. The owner took me for a drive, and I’ve got to tell you they’re just as good now as ever.

 

[Reed Prince]

Are both screwdrivers brand new? From the tips it looks like they've barely been used. Would've been interesting to see the comparison on more worn out or used drivers.

The PB is new. Bought the Vessel in 2002.

 

[Dave455]

And just for our American cousins, here is a Triumph Dolomite “Sprint”.

A good looking car, even by today’s standards. They performed and handled very well for a 1970’s car.

Their downfall was rust. They weren’t rustproofed to modern Standards, so if they were not garaged they rusted from the inside out, or sometimes from the outside in. Also, as befits the 1970’s, they came in some strange colours. For every bright red or racing green Dolomite, there was one in turd brown or vomit orange

 

[Samuel D]

Just for interest, here are some of my 6 point spanners.

That’s how single-hex spanners should look, with the broaches rotated 15° to the handle so that you can flip the ring end to halve the swing, in cases where the crank in the other direction (for access / knuckle clearance) doesn't prevent flipping.

This feature is worth twice as much for single-hex as conventional bi-hex (12-point) spanners, because the swing arc is twice as long and you’re half as likely to get the handle at a nice starting angle to break a fastener loose.

The “reasonably priced” ones mr.lemons showed earlier inexplicably had the broaches at smaller angles (almost straight). How does that cut costs? It just makes them a bit less useful.

 

[mr.lemons]

^ I hadn't noticed that Snap on had 15° rotation. Makes a lot of sense for the flat Nepros and the double box end KTC spanners but I'm not sure there are many times when you can flip a combination spanner over. Would still like to have it though.

Keen eye with the hex on the cheaper spanners being very slightly off from straight. I didn't notice that either.

Could it be that not as much thought was put into the design of the cheaper spanners rather than it being related to cost savings?

Really going off-topic but spotted a cool little car this morning.

 

[mr.lemons]

NOS replacement Record bolt cutter (clipper) jaws.

 

[dutchgray]

That’s how single-hex spanners should look, with the broaches rotated 15° to the handle so that you can flip the ring end to halve the swing, in cases where the crank in the other direction (for access / knuckle clearance) doesn't prevent flipping.

This feature is worth twice as much for single-hex as conventional bi-hex (12-point) spanners, because the swing arc is twice as long and you’re half as likely to get the handle at a nice starting angle to break a fastener loose.

The “reasonably priced” ones mr.lemons showed earlier inexplicably had the broaches at smaller angles (almost straight). How does that cut costs? It just makes them a bit less useful.

It cuts costs because you can cut the hex shape with a broach that isn't firmly retained and can rotate between uses, which is slightly easier to build work holding jigs for, or they just didn't think about it.
Snap-On is one of not many manufacturers that clocks its wrench broaches to all be the same position.
If you had 10 of a given wrench from most manufacturers and slid them over a piece of hex stock they would probably all be slightly different.

 

[thomfr]

^

Really going off-topic but spotted a cool little car this morning.

That is a Lotus (or Westfield if it is a repro) 21.

Thom

 

[node105]

Maun Parallel Jaw Pliers

arrived today direct from Maun in the UK: Maun Parallel Jaw Flat Nose Pliers, 140mm, in smooth and serrated jaw variants.

140 mm - Jaw width 8 mm & Jaw opening 10 mm; " the serrated jaws with a single longitudinal V-slot on one jaw are ideal for gripping wire down the full length of the throat."

No COO marked, and nothing on their web page listing.

The screw and Nail holders will be useful. Not even marked 'Maun' . About 2mm sideways slop in the jaws, which is not an issue at all, but given the diameter of the pivot (c. 10mm), seems odd. They were cheap


Extract from their 'about us' page:
"The company was originally established in Mansfield and spent six successful decades at Moor Lane. In 2004 we moved to our present head office, which is strategically located near to the M1 motorway in Sutton-in-Ashfield, Nottinghamshire and we operate a purpose-built 39,000 sq. ft. manufacturing works and tool-making facility, with stockholding capacity. "

 

[Dave455]

Re: Maun Parallel Jaw Pliers

arrived today direct from Maun in the UK: Maun Parallel Jaw Flat Nose Pliers, 140mm, in smooth and serrated jaw variants.

No COO marked, and nothing on their web page listing.

The screw and Nail holders will be useful. Not even marked
. "

Don’t panic!

As far as I’m aware all the Maun pliers are made in England, and have been for decades, relatively unchanged!

They’re very useful tools. I use mine extensively for everything from assembly work, and there are no better tools for gripping small pins!

 

[mr.lemons]

Observations while using the Premier 6 point spanners today. The odd shape of the box end creates an uneven bezel around the hex broach so the spanner does not sit squarely on bolts. This recessed hex barely makes contact with shallow fasteners.

Odd bump on the Premier box ends.

Hard to show on pics but he hex is deeply recessed with an uneven bezel.

Shallow bolt barely reaches the hex so the spanner easily slips off. (The side of the box end that gets little use is recessed evenly. )

Not sure I see many fasteners deep enough to make use of the thick box ends.

Not for me then. I think that in cases like this a flush (pre flank drive) design works better on shallow bolt heads.

Looking through my sockets, it looks like 12 point broaches are generally less deeply recessed so may also be better suited to shallow fasteners.

Also worth noting is that the bolts on the right jaw and handles of bolt cutters are reverse threaded.

That is a Lotus 11 (or Westfield if it is a repro)

Thanks for that. Thought it was a slammed E-type from the front before I realised how small it was.