Tools from the old world

[Orangina]

Hello everyone,

this big reseller shop light is not uncommon and can be seen every two to six months in German classified ads
with realistic offers between $ 200 and $ 750. But it also seems hard to sell - not everyone wants something like that.
Was not part of the normal sales range or promotional items for customers.

Should be from the 70s, as it already has a capital letters and still without ® at the top right of the logo.

regards,

 

[DAustin]

Bought a Wurth double box end wrench. On the photo of the wrench, it had Germany on it. When it showed up no Germany only Quality on it instead. It looks usable but I thought I was buying a German made wrench, I could have some Asian made wrench anywhere for less money. I don't feel like paying to send it back, so I'll just keep it.

Porsche Zebra Powerdriv Double Box End Wrench 10mm x 13mm 0713305103

Porsche Zebra Powerdriv Double Box End Wrench (10mm x 13mm) Description: The Zebra Powerdriv Double Box End Wrench is a high-quality hand tool designed for professional use. This wrench features two box ends, one 10mm and the other 13mm, making it versatile for various metric fastening tasks...

sierramadrecollection.com

 

[Nobody-named-Olli]

Current picture on the Würth app/ shop is of the 17x16 variant and says Germany on it as well, but as usual they don’t list COO. Only way to tell for sure is the Würth delivery note, that lists COO and batch. In some countries, they now have to list it on the packaging as well, I think that’s the case in the UK.

But ‘Zebra’ is definitely their good stuff, so it’s not that you got a ’cheap’ wrench of questionable quality.

I do understand the frustration though, if you expected to receive a wrench made in Germany and clearly labeled as such.

Sadly this can happen when purchasing from the big industrial suppliers, products change without notice. You still get quality, but maybe not from the same manufacturer as before. That dealer probably wasn’t even aware of the change.

I can take a look at them/ pick one up next time I’m at my local Würth. Put it on the list, so I don’t forget.

Kind regards,
Olli

 

[gsanvi]

Bought a Wurth double box end wrench. On the photo of the wrench, it had Germany on it. When it showed up no Germany only Quality on it instead. It looks usable but I thought I was buying a German made wrench, I could have some Asian made wrench anywhere for less money. I don't feel like paying to send it back, so I'll just keep it.

Porsche Zebra Powerdriv Double Box End Wrench 10mm x 13mm 0713305103

Porsche Zebra Powerdriv Double Box End Wrench (10mm x 13mm) Description: The Zebra Powerdriv Double Box End Wrench is a high-quality hand tool designed for professional use. This wrench features two box ends, one 10mm and the other 13mm, making it versatile for various metric fastening tasks...

sierramadrecollection.com

I have some Wurth tools. Maybe 10% is manufactured in Germany, the rest is Taiwanese probably - anyway very solid tools. If you want German made wrenches go for Stahlwille or Hazet, then you'll be sure.

 

[F-22]

Bought a Wurth double box end wrench. On the photo of the wrench, it had Germany on it. When it showed up no Germany only Quality on it instead. It looks usable but I thought I was buying a German made wrench, I could have some Asian made wrench anywhere for less money. I don't feel like paying to send it back, so I'll just keep it.

Porsche Zebra Powerdriv Double Box End Wrench 10mm x 13mm 0713305103

Porsche Zebra Powerdriv Double Box End Wrench (10mm x 13mm) Description: The Zebra Powerdriv Double Box End Wrench is a high-quality hand tool designed for professional use. This wrench features two box ends, one 10mm and the other 13mm, making it versatile for various metric fastening tasks...

sierramadrecollection.com

I'm sure the Wurth is fine but... Yes, I got the smaller Facom 440XL set for I think around 90€ and those are probably the best you can get from Taiwan (or really anywhere on the world).

Wurth just sells rebrands, I think they don't really make anything. I like their handwash soap.

 

[gsanvi]

I'm sure the Wurth is fine but... Yes, I got the smaller Facom 440XL set for I think around 90€ and those are probably the best you can get from Taiwan (or really anywhere on the world).

Wurth just sells rebrands, I think they don't really make anything. I like their handwash soap.

Yes, but good rebrands. Pliers are from Knipex, screwdrivers from Felo, wire brushes are Lessmann. Their ratchets are mediocre, but sockets are great. There's more to this company than just soap...

 

[Nobody-named-Olli]

Felo is part of the Würth Group since 2008, for example.

Let’s just say, they make quite a few things …

Kind regards,
Olli

 

[Nobody-named-Olli]

@DAustin

Picked one up at the local Würth today.





Just downloaded the delivery note and it states “D-QU” as COO.

(The latter is not a country, but used to be/ is the code for “unknown origin” when filing certain paperwork/ forms with customs. Don’t jump to a conclusion from here, I will “investigate” further. I checked some older delivery notes and found that on quite a few products …)

I’ll ask my sales rep. if he can/will share the COO of these wrenches.

I was hoping to be able to actually look at a couple of these, but they in fact only had 6 of the 10x13 in stock. No other sizes.

Kind regards,
Olli

 

[DAustin]

@DAustin

Picked one up at the local Würth today.





Just downloaded the delivery note and it states “D-QU” as COO.

(The latter is not a country, but used to be/ is the code for “unknown origin” when filing certain paperwork/ forms with customs. Don’t jump to a conclusion from here, I will “investigate” further. I checked some older delivery notes and found that on quite a few products …)

I’ll ask my sales rep. if he can/will share the COO of these wrenches.

I was hoping to be able to actually look at a couple of these, but they in fact only had 6 of the 10x13 in stock. No other sizes.

Kind regards,
Olli

Thanks, 10x13mm are great for working on most German cars. Like 10x12mm are on Japanese cars. I don't know why Hazet stopped making a 10x13mm deep off-set box end wrench. Gedore and Stahlwille still do.

 

[Nobody-named-Olli]

I really can’t say much about Hazet’s reasoning behind such a move. Especially since, even outside the ‘car world’, 10 and 13 are such commonly found sizes, it does make sense to have this pairing available in all different type of wrenches.

I have found Stahlwille to be more accommodating in that regard, even for seemingly ‘odd pairings’ of sizes.



I’ll hear back from my sales rep. in a couple of days, and will follow up here then.

Kind regards,
Olli

 

[DAustin]

I really can’t say much about Hazet’s reasoning behind such a move. Especially since, even outside the ‘car world’, 10 and 13 are such commonly found sizes, it does make sense to have this pairing available in all different type of wrenches.

I have found Stahlwille to be more accommodating in that regard, even for seemingly ‘odd pairings’ of sizes.



I’ll hear back from my sales rep. in a couple of days, and will follow up here then.

Kind regards,
Olli

Thank you.

 

[Monte]

Hultafors tape measure

 

[HannibalLecter]

Finally, I found the last pieces for my collection. Wooden handle Wera pz1 and pz2, I think discontinued by now. I love the quality and the aesthetics of them. I also have the corresponding wihas, but the quality is not the same. I'd also try felo but I already have too much.
I will remove the varnish from them as well as the bar code.

 

[Zewnten]

Anybody know anything about matador wrenches made in Germany?

 

[F-22]

Finally, I found the last pieces for my collection. Wooden handle Wera pz1 and pz2, I think discontinued by now. I love the quality and the aesthetics of them. I also have the corresponding wihas, but the quality is not the same. I'd also try felo but I already have too much.
I will remove the varnish from them as well as the bar code.

Interesting that they went as far as to weld the bolster on these, while regular production is all pressed on.

 

[Nobody-named-Olli]

Anybody know anything about matador wrenches made in Germany?

All I can say is, unless the tools clearly state “Made in Germany” I’d be vary about it.



They even got rid of the “Made in Germany” on their top of the line Z90 ratchets. …

I’ve heard explanations/rumors about them still being made in Germany but they dropped marking them/ don’t mark all batches because: “no one in the trade/industry cares about that and sometimes unmarked batches go out to stores selling to end consumers.” That was about 3 years ago. But even the visualizations on their website are all unmarked by now. …

While that might be true to some extent, I still think it’s probably the worst decision a German toolmaker can make. …

The website has a lot of marketing blah, but no clear message on COO either.

To me that simply speaks volumes.

Because of that, one of the last brands I would look at. (Their pliers are NWS and Made in Germany though …)


Kind regards,
Olli

 

[HannibalLecter]

Interesting that they went as far as to weld the bolster on these, while regular production is all pressed on.

Which regular production do you mean? Are the Craftform chisel (the black and yellow ones) not welded? I was under the impression that all are welded, pbswiss as well

 

[F-22]

Which regular production do you mean? Are the Craftform chisel (the black and yellow ones) not welded? I was under the impression that all are welded, pbswiss as well

PB Swiss is welded but that is a completely different company manufactured in Switzerland.

Wera regular bolstered screwdrivers are made in the Czech Republic and have a hex shank with a bigger hex bolster pressed over it:



This is also seen on most other screwdrivers made in Europe, such as Witte and Oplast (the original manufacturers supplying companies such as stahlwille, gedore, hazet...). Same also on French made Facom screwdrivers.





To point out - this does not really make a screwdriver perform better or worse. But welding is more expensive in manufacturing and makes it more seamless. Some rare few screwdrivers are even forged out of a single piece - seems to be the case with the Vessel powergrip models.

 

[Dave455]

PB Swiss is welded but that is a completely different company manufactured in Switzerland.

Wera regular bolstered screwdrivers are made in the Czech Republic and have a hex shank with a bigger hex bolster pressed over it:



This is also seen on most other screwdrivers made in Europe, such as Witte and Oplast (the original manufacturers supplying companies such as stahlwille, gedore, hazet...). Same also on French made Facom screwdrivers.





To point out - this does not really make a screwdriver perform better or worse. But welding is more expensive in manufacturing and makes it more seamless. Some rare few screwdrivers are even forged out of a single piece - seems to be the case with the Vessel powergrip models.

The way these hex bolsters should be made, is that they should be forged, with the blade, as one piece!

That’s the way, historically, it was done. And it makes for a superb driver.

Here’s an old Stanley that shows this.


You are absolutely correct - most european manufacturers either press on, or weld, the hex portion.

This is, to use a British term, a bit of a “cop out”. It‘s a cheap way of getting a similar result, and that applies to both pressed and welded. Neither is ideal. In fairness you can’t really beat the value of some of these European drivers, but you have to understand the compromises.

It is, however, one reason that makes the better American made drivers worth the money (at least to me). Here’s one of my (much underrated) Mac drivers showing the forged bolster. Snap on are similar.


Pleasingly, Vessel also offer the same on their top end drivers.

 

[Pixel_Rage]

Knipex

 

[Stubby1743]

My only Stubai tool.

 

[F-22]

The way these hex bolsters should be made, is that they should be forged, with the blade, as one piece!

That’s the way, historically, it was done. And it makes for a superb driver.

Here’s an old Stanley that shows this.


You are absolutely correct - most european manufacturers either press on, or weld, the hex portion.

This is, to use a British term, a bit of a “cop out”. It‘s a cheap way of getting a similar result, and that applies to both pressed and welded. Neither is ideal. In fairness you can’t really beat the value of some of these European drivers, but you have to understand the compromises.

It is, however, one reason that makes the better American made drivers worth the money (at least to me). Here’s one of my (much underrated) Mac drivers showing the forged bolster. Snap on are similar.


Pleasingly, Vessel also offer the same on their top end drivers.

I agree generally, but what drawback does a press-on one have? It does make the shank slightly weaker but typically this would not be the limiting factor except for maybe some nut drivers. For the manufacturing, it is a very good solution lowering cost plus allowing them to use their hex bar stock supply for another product. I just really appreciate the forged style aesthetically and how much more it takes to make one. I have a few of the powergrip drivers that are really excellent, as well as Willians (Snap On). The US style with the flange is certainly very reassuring.

 

[Dave455]

I agree generally, but what drawback does a press-on one have? It does make the shank slightly weaker but typically this would not be the limiting factor except for maybe some nut drivers. For the manufacturing, it is a very good solution lowering cost plus allowing them to use their hex bar stock supply for another product. I just really appreciate the forged style aesthetically and how much more it takes to make one. I have a few of the powergrip drivers that are really excellent, as well as Willians (Snap On). The US style with the flange is certainly very reassuring.

The only drawbacks are that you don’t then have a “one piece” design, which has to be preferable, and of course the metallurgy will not be as good as a forged blade / bolster combo.

Is it “good enough “? Probably. Are most of the drivers made this way “good value”? Most certainly. I have a whole set of Oplast made / Gedore branded drivers that live in one of my vehicles. I paid less for the set than I would for one Snap On driver, and they are perfectly adequate.

Do I like having some really top quality drivers, with forged blades and bolsters, available? Most definitely.

I think the Williams and the Vessel’s are both very good value, though I think it’s worth keeping an eye open for the older Stanley drivers if they appear in good condition.

I bought four of these for little money. Although they don’t have the hex bolster, they still feature the forged blade, The balance is lovely.

 

[HannibalLecter]

PB Swiss is welded but that is a completely different company manufactured in Switzerland.

Wera regular bolstered screwdrivers are made in the Czech Republic and have a hex shank with a bigger hex bolster pressed over it:



This is also seen on most other screwdrivers made in Europe, such as Witte and Oplast (the original manufacturers supplying companies such as stahlwille, gedore, hazet...). Same also on French made Facom screwdrivers.





To point out - this does not really make a screwdriver perform better or worse. But welding is more expensive in manufacturing and makes it more seamless. Some rare few screwdrivers are even forged out of a single piece - seems to be the case with the Vessel powergrip models.

Yeah I was mistaken, I was under the impression that all wera were welded.
However I have never ever used a bolster on a crosshead screwdriver, or flathead for that matter. Full through tang is more important imo

 

[pcrov]

I was cleaning up my wire strippers today and noticed this for the first time:



45-121
IDEAL INDUSTRIES INC. SYCAMORE, ILL. U.S.A.
MADE IN U.S.S.R.

I don't use this pair often but I don't know how I missed it before. Maybe had some schmutz on it for the last 20 years.

 

[Steve_P]

I was cleaning up my wire strippers today and noticed this for the first time:



45-121
IDEAL INDUSTRIES INC. SYCAMORE, ILL. U.S.A.
MADE IN U.S.S.R.

I don't use this pair often but I don't know how I missed it before. Maybe had some schmutz on it for the last 20 years.

That is really interesting, but it also makes no sense. Would love to know the story about those.

 

[neophyte]

That is really interesting, but it also makes no sense. Would love to know the story about those.

After “the fall” of the Soviet Union, companies were trying to take advantage of potentially cheap Russian and former Soviet manufacturing capabilities, and companies in the former Soviet Union were trying to find sources of cash to keep afloat.
Most major Soviet/Russian military manufacturers also made some basic tools or other products, since the manufacture of “basic items for common consumers” was expected of companies under the Soviet Union.
I think this was mentioned by someone from Russia who used to post over in the “Tools from the Old World” thread.
A bunch of these simple tools got exported or rebranded for sale in the USA and Europe, as well as a bunch of “surplus” tools, such as machinist tools.
Russian/Soviet Companies that made products for the Russian aerospace industry, also for instance, made power tools, and some of those were sold in the USA, in US voltage, by US tool brands, and Bosch even had Russian made items in their lineup.
Sanctions put in place I think under Obama during the Crimea annexation, ended the Russian exports, or a large amount of them, since most of the manufacturers were considered part of the Russian arms industry.
Even Russian made Linen dish towels disappeared from Ikea.
Yarka Russian made art supplies still seem to be available, so maybe Yarka was one product line that was never embargoed.
For Ideal, which I believe used import most of their hand tools, the Russian made wire strippers probably just seemed like a well made product at the right price.

 

[Steve_P]

After “the fall” of the Soviet Union, companies were trying to take advantage of potentially cheap Russian and former Soviet manufacturing capabilities, and companies in the former Soviet Union were trying to find sources of cash to keep afloat.
Most major Soviet/Russian military manufacturers also made some basic tools or other products, since the manufacture of “basic items for common consumers” was expected of companies under the Soviet Union.
I think this was mentioned by someone from Russia who used to post over in the “Tools from the Old World” thread.
A bunch of these simple tools got exported or rebranded for sale in the USA and Europe, as well as a bunch of “surplus” tools, such as machinist tools.
Russian/Soviet Companies that made products for the Russian aerospace industry, also for instance, made power tools, and some of those were sold in the USA, in US voltage, by US tool brands, and Bosch even had Russian made items in their lineup.
Sanctions put in place I think under Obama during the Crimea annexation, ended the Russian exports, or a large amount of them, since most of the manufacturers were considered part of the Russian arms industry.
Even Russian made Linen dish towels disappeared from Ikea.
Yarka Russian made art supplies still seem to be available, so maybe Yarka was one product line that was never embargoed.
For Ideal, which I believe used import most of their hand tools, the Russian made wire strippers probably just seemed like a well made product at the right price.

Ok, but it says USSR, and not Russia. Unless they kept using USSR for several years? This was my point: Russia and USSR are two different things- pre and post fall of the Berlin wall / end of communism in Russia/USSR. If I could find something today that was made in Russia, it wouldn't say USSR.

 

[Monte]

Is it real ? Did you buy them new ? April 1st is long gone

 

[dutchgray]

Ok, but it says USSR, and not Russia. Unless they kept using USSR for several years? This was my point: Russia and USSR are two different things- pre and post fall of the Berlin wall / end of communism in Russia/USSR. If I could find something today that was made in Russia, it wouldn't say USSR.

Considering that new old stock USSR precision machine tooling/ metrology is still coming out of former USSR countries (I have bought my fair share of it over the years via Ebay, some of it is really good) I wouldn't surprise me at all if they didn't have a vast stock of pre stamped vinyl plier grips to use up after the fall, it's also possible it was made and exported before the fall.

Their centralised production system did lead to vast quantities of products being made that no one had a use for whilst at the same time having major shortages of other products that they needed.

 

[pcrov]

Is it real ? Did you buy them new ? April 1st is long gone

It's real. I did not buy them new (though I don't remember how I came to the them.) I guess it's possible that someone else swapped the grips but they feel factory.

 

[Phang]

a punch set that is too beautiful to use

 

[raketa]

Anyone knows who makes these for Förch?

 

[Phang]

Stahlwille 7380N

 

[GerMec]

Anyone knows who makes these for Förch?

They are Hazet

 

[Dave455]

Anyone knows who makes these for Förch?

You have to be very careful with these industrial suppliers.

Quite often different parts of sets are made by different manufacturers, and even if you find something you like, you sometimes find they switch suppliers.

With regard to the set shown, I’d be fairly certain those are Hazet ratchets.

What about the rest of the tools? Hazet extensions? Hazet sockets? Might be, might not be.

I’m pretty certain the 1/4” spinner handle is not Hazet. It appears identical to a lot of similar tools supplied with differing brand names but all originating in Taiwan.

I’ve also seen other, similar, Forch ratchets that are a different pattern. So if you are considering those exact tools, you are probably getting Hazet ratchets. If you are buying new, you might not.

 

[raketa]

Thanks for reply guys.
I wasn't sure is it Hazet so I've had to ask.
I found it on local marketplace for about 100euros so I think it's not bad price regardles of sockets.
Can't be that bad

 

[raketa]

Just news regarding Förch set
Ratchets are indeed Hazet, they have Made in Germany stamp
Sockets I belive are made by Wera
Deep sockets, extensions and bits (only T40 is missing from the set) I don't know, Koken maybe judging by the shape
Spiner handle Taiwan some sorts i presume

 

[InTheHighlands]

I wonder if anyone has any background on Padre Tools from Germany? Maybe Monte?

padre® – padre®-Tools

padre.de

I have a feeling that when I looked at their website a few years back there was a comment that they made tools for other German manufacturers - Saltus came to mind. Any information would be much appreciated!

 

[four.cycle]

Dreiner / Paul Dreiner Werkzeugfabrik GmbH & Co. KG, Herrlinghausen 3, 42929 Wermelskirchen, Germany / https://padre.de/wp/en/home-english/ / "Padre" brand hand tools /

^ first time I've seen the company name.

The building is certainly large enough to contain forging facilities, but I can't get a "street view" image.