Tools from the old world

[Nocturnal-G]

I don't understand what he's saying in the video but it seems to be a test of a few wrenches including the Stahlwille wrench...

 

[lok]

Lok, do you use that driver often?

Yes but..

It's not my only one and I'm not a pro so I don't use it every day. I'm very carefully and when the screw is damaged I use a bit and a bit driver. I don't use it to No3 PH screws or in PZ. When the fitting is not right I use my JIS screwdriver.

Here a crapy pic (again) sorry for that.
The coating is in worst condition from what the pic shows but the fitment is still right.

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The jis screwdrivers are quite good. The handle is not so good though.
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I like your toolbox. I mean ... everything is well-arranged in there. Mine is such a mess. I consider of getting myself one of those american Veto Pro Pac bags.

Thanks buddy. The veto tool bag is very very nice. Expensive but nice.

Here is one more for you.

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[lok]

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Τhe more I see it the more I want it.

 

[Monte]

Monte, where can we buy tools from VBW Winter-Aktion 2012? Thank you
http://www.vbw.de/vbw_uk/index1.htm

your local Stahlwille dealer should be able to get you VBW tools too.
here is a german online shop where you can buy VBW: www.werkzeuggigant.com

Monte can you do the same with yours?

with my Würth screwdriver ? yes

Thanks monte, I have some other tools as well but still nothing like your collection. Does the Festool warranty cover for impact damage if the bit slips out of the screw.

the only thing i know is the tool/battery has a 3 year warranty and a extra anti theft warranty, so maybe i should try it out to see what exactly is covered

Thanks, but I do hope you know that you are a bad influence on me?

i know i hear that all the time

After seeing the Stahlwille ductility test you youtube, I couldn't help but want to play too.

R.I.P. Stahlwille wrench

And what did I learn from all this?

how to break a good tool

However, they do sell 90 degree twisted wrenches in the states, so imagine what a 360 degree one would be worth

Homage to Monte;13mm Gedore

the Gedore "1B" wrenches are really nice !







picked up some "terminal"/"SL/PZ" screwdriver bits:

 

[Maexle]

I don't understand what he's saying in the video but it seems to be a test of a few wrenches including the Stahlwille wrench...

He says: "Stahlwille is ****, buy Harbor Freight"....

 

[Maexle]

Ive noticed alot of comments regarding the video I posted, alot of "Whats your point" type comments. I think the video is just showing the ductility of the tool, its ability to deform before failure.

I like my stahlwille's very nice wrenches.

I prefer bending any day over breaking / snapping off.....

 

[Skin]

Sorry fanboys but soft wrenches are not an advantage if they permanently bend long before competitors reach their fail point.

Stahlwille wrench severely bent at 155 foot pounds
Two Snap-On wrenches, Hazet, and even a wrench forged in India (HR), amongst others, hit the torque limit of 177 foot pounds on the box end and did not deform, break, or bend. Bending wrenches is NOT a good thing.

Brings a bit of irony to the "Stronger than any bolt" they stamp in.

 

[marlinspike]

The funny thing about that test is I have both Hazet and Stahlwille, and when I have a nut that I'm worried about marring, while I'll grab a Hazet if I need to use the open end, if I can use the closed end I reach for a Stahlwille.

 

[Monte]

in the german test they tested the Stahlwille "Open Box 13", instead they should have tested the "Open Box 14" which has a thicker jaw and higher box end.... just like the Hazet 600N.....That would be a fair comparison....

 

[ricleh]

Some purchases in the last few months

A couple of Hazet magnetic small parts bins - sorry, the k bar knife is U.S. made.

Hazet Mini-Assi

Rennsteig punches

Italian and Swiss tweezers, NOS Lindstrom (made in Sweden) pliers and cutters, Schmitz pliers and cutters

30 piece Hazet 600N set (5.5mm to 41mm)

Hazet 12 piece 610N and 630N sets

Festool work light, East German made hand clamp, Hazet small files and wire brushes, German made pencil sharpeners and Hazet 17 piece 603N and 600N sets

 

[marlinspike]

in the german test they tested the Stahlwille "Open Box 13", instead they should have tested the "Open Box 14" which has a thicker jaw and higher box end.... just like the Hazet 600N.....That would be a fair comparison....

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/9958/a1qweaq099.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

And in fact my Stahlwille are Type 15, which is discontinued but on the closed end is the same as Type 14, which may explain why I have the preferences I do despite owning both Stahlwille and Hazet.

 

[Skin]

in the german test they tested the Stahlwille "Open Box 13", instead they should have tested the "Open Box 14" which has a thicker jaw and higher box end.... just like the Hazet 600N.....That would be a fair comparison....[/IMG]

but its the beam that fails (bends) not the actual box end walls, unless the beams are thicker too. Still, the Japanese magazine test didn't do any favors for stahlwille either, showing similar bending at lower loads than competitors, and they tested double box wrenches too. Interestingly in this test the hazet combo seems to of bent similarly with the two German brands being the stand outs in deformation in the combos.

This test is 17mm wrenches by the way.

Wrench test:

I still say premature bending is not a trait to be valued.

 

[N.I.]

Sorry fanboys but soft wrenches are not an advantage if they permanently bend long before competitors reach their fail point.

Stahlwille wrench severely bent at 155 foot pounds
Two Snap-On wrenches, Hazet, and even a wrench forged in India (HR), amongst others, hit the torque limit of 177 foot pounds on the box end and did not deform, break, or bend. Bending wrenches is NOT a good thing.



Brings a bit of irony to the "Stronger than any bolt" they stamp in.

I don't think you fully understand the point of the chart you just quoted. You seem to be getting a bit confused between maximum torque, the temper and quality of the steel and the actual wrench design.

The maximum torque a wrench can take depends on the actual wrench design as much as the steel quality. (By wrench design I mean thickness and shape.)

The Hazet is the strongest but it is also the thickest. Snap On does **** on the open end but it also has the narrowest jaw design.

The point of the charts and the parameters being numbered is to allow the buyer to choose which wrench suits his/her needs best. It does not list one as being better than the other. The Stahlwille a designed to be a slimmer and lighter wrench. It will fit certain applications where the Hazet would be too fat.

Also appreciate that 209Nm on a 13mm wrench in real life terms is a hell of a lot, and I doubt you could apply it with your bare hands. The torque value for a dry M8, 10.9 bolt is about 38Nm. With that in mind I bet the Stahlwille designers thought that 209Nm would suffice, and adding any more material would be of very little benefit.

Bending tests are probably the most fasinating part as they give a minor insight into the temper and the actual quality of the alloy steel used. I could make a cheap but very strong wrench out all the melted down **** of the day, but it would be brittle like glass and when it breaks the swear words will come out.

Any quality wrenches should be designed to yield a bit before breaking for safety reasons, but this increase in ductility will compromise overall strength. This is where the high quality alloy steels come into play. I would bet that the difference between the steels used by the top manufacturers is now minimal and the differences in the torque values in the charts is more down to wrench design.

 

[lok]

Sorry fanboys but soft wrenches are not an advantage if they permanently bend long before competitors reach their fail point.

Stahlwille wrench severely bent at 155 foot pounds
Two Snap-On wrenches, Hazet, and even a wrench forged in India (HR), amongst others, hit the torque limit of 177 foot pounds on the box end and did not deform, break, or bend. Bending wrenches is NOT a good thing.

I would say that the 209nm of the stahl is very impressive. Have you see how thin this think is? It proves how good metallurgy the the Germans have. Such levels of resistance, in such thin size, with so large percentages of flexibility is at least impressive.

Brings a bit of irony to the "Stronger than any bolt" they stamp in.

How many m8 bolts can handle 209nm?

Some purchases in the last few months

Very impressive collection.

 

[Lasu]

Interesting tests.. Stahlwille no14 17mm beam (double-T profile) thickness is ~5.60mm
no13 are different and short.
They are slim,very light,fits in tight places,no chrome flaking.

 

[mkstuls]

Stahlwille don't use Chrome Vanadium steel in wrenches.
I think this is the reason for less torque capacity than competitors.

 

[lok]

Stahlwille.

(Pics of Olafur, all right reserved)

Gedore

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(Pics from Monte, All right reserved)

It's a matter of design.

 

[lok]

The more is not always the better. Thin wrenches has their places, even if they don't finish in the first place in tests.

 

[N.I.]

Some purchases in the last few months

30 piece Hazet 600N set (5.5mm to 41mm)

What a brilliant collection.

You are the first I have seen to have posted the full 30 piece Hazet set. I am in awe. I have the 17 piece set up to 27mm , but it is a baby compared to the 41mm.

How do you plan to store them?

 

[Jrwoodca]

Hi, I am glad to see your Hazet sets OK. I never had a chance to lay them out like you did. Very cool. Thank you again, Jason

 

[Jrwoodca]

I meant to say I was glad to see your Hazet sets arrived OK. Somehow I miss-typed. Thank you, Jason

 

[ricleh]

What a brilliant collection.

You are the first I have seen to have posted the full 30 piece Hazet set. I am in awe. I have the 17 piece set up to 27mm , but it is a baby compared to the 41mm.

How do you plan to store them?

I'm not sure how I am going to store them. That is going to be a challenge. Right now they are stored loosely at the bottom of my Hazet Assistent 166C.

 

[ricleh]

I meant to say I was glad to see your Hazet sets arrived OK. Somehow I miss-typed. Thank you, Jason

Yes, everything arrived in perfect condition Jason. Everything was packed exceptionally well. It has been a pleasure doing business with you.

 

[neophyte]

I don't understand what he's saying in the video but it seems to be a test of a few wrenches including the Stahlwille wrench...

Is that thing with the bolts some sort of Stahlwille salesman's set. It seems to show the advantages of Stahlwille wrenches turning bolts in tight places as well as ones with rounded corners. Thanks for the link to that.

 

[neophyte]

I don't understand what he's saying in the video but it seems to be a test of a few wrenches including the Stahlwille wrench...

but its the beam that fails (bends) not the actual box end walls, unless the beams are thicker too. Still, the Japanese magazine test didn't do any favors for stahlwille either, showing similar bending at lower loads than competitors, and they tested double box wrenches too. Interestingly in this test the hazet combo seems to of bent similarly with the two German brands being the stand outs in deformation in the combos.

This test is 17mm wrenches by the way.



I still say premature bending is not a trait to be valued.

Premature Bending may not be a desirable trait but it's far better to have a wrench that bends then one that snaps unexpectedly. A wrench that snaps can cause your hands or arms to lung forward or backward int a sharp piece of metal if your trying to loosen a bolt in a tight location, causing a severe gash or impact wound. They can also send a sharp chunk of metal ricocheting into your eye or face. In some industries flaking chrome is an issue. Imagine what a sharp chunk of hardened steel might do in the same circumstances such as if it got left in a $2,000,000 rolls royce jet engine. The cost of repair to the engine or even the cost of the time it takes to retrieve the piece of metal could dwarf the cost of simply buying a new wrench. Also, as has been pointed out a number of times, the Stahlwille wrenches that were tested were thin pattern wrenches. They are designed to work on smaller fasteners in tighter locations. They're also lighter, something that's important if you have a job were you have to carry around your tools all day and can't use a storage cart. For instance a job like this.

 

[Skin]

I don't think you fully understand the point of the chart you just quoted. You seem to be getting a bit confused between maximum torque, the temper and quality of the steel and the actual wrench design.

The maximum torque a wrench can take depends on the actual wrench design as much as the steel quality. (By wrench design I mean thickness and shape.)

The Hazet is the strongest but it is also the thickest. Snap On does **** on the open end but it also has the narrowest jaw design.

I understand that they make tools that bend at torque numbers where others hold their shape. Doesn't necessarily make the latter poor wrenches at all. As you stated they'll never see that abuse without mis-use anyway.

It does not list one as being better than the other.

Yep, it clearly does, ranks them infact and names overall best wrench and overall best bargain. That was the point to the test. Read it.

Neophyte you need to watch less "1000 ways to die" and spend more time with your wrenches. Odds of breaking a quality wrench without a defect are nill and the only way something horrible like you described would happen would be if the user was an idiot putting, literally, hundreds of pounds of force on a combo wrench. Even trying such a tactic in the aerospace industry would get your **** canned in short order.

 

[CanUK]

Ignore me - I missed a page.

 

[CanUK]

This is how I got it:

pic

and the finished article:

pic


Sadly, it has to go as since purchasing it, I acquired a more compact Fobco drill which I am currently restoring.

Looks awesome Alx. Now hurry up and let's see the Fobco!

 

[William Payne]

I understand that they make tools that bend at torque numbers where others hold their shape. Doesn't necessarily make the latter poor wrenches at all. As you stated they'll never see that abuse without mis-use anyway.



Yep, it clearly does, ranks them infact and names overall best wrench and overall best bargain. That was the point to the test. Read it.

Neophyte you need to watch less "1000 ways to die" and spend more time with your wrenches. Odds of breaking a quality wrench without a defect are nill and the only way something horrible like you described would happen would be if the user was an idiot putting, literally, hundreds of pounds of force on a combo wrench. Even trying such a tactic in the aerospace industry would get your **** canned in short order.

The fact of the matter is the values quoted in those tests that you are basing your claim of poorness for stahlwille are of such a value that they go beyond what can physically be applied by hand as in with ones bare hands.

209nm is alot. A persons bone will break with less force. As you said yourself you would have to be doing something stupid to apply that much force.

You mention aerospace, there are aerospace companies who require the use of stahlwille tools.

 

[marlinspike]

I've got to say, I've done "something stupid" and I don't find the Stahlwille Type 14/15 to bend any easier than the 600N Hazet. In fact, just the opposite. Though I've heard the new 600N don't bend as easily as the double stamp ones.

 

[N.I.]

Yep, it clearly does, ranks them infact and names overall best wrench and overall best bargain. That was the point to the test. Read it.

It lists the strongest, the weakest, the thinest, etc, but certainly does not list the best.

Andywander did an excellent translation on the article which can be found here-

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=176026&highlight=german+test+hazet+stahlwille+snap+flank&page=4

Taking it directly from the horses mouth -

"In our table, we therefore assign rankings in different categories, so you can decide what is important to you."

Everyone has different needs. There are more than just cars out there that uses bolts and nuts, you do know that?

If you worked with hydraulic fittings you would find many places where the Hazet are far too thick and don't fit. In these cases the Gedore no7 which I also own(and are near identical to the Stahlwille dimension wise) do fit. In this case the Gedore are certainly better.

I can also tell you that if you are working at height or in some daft, uncomfortable position, the Gedore no7 are a hell of a lot easier to work with.

There is no doubt that for pure brute strength, the Hazet do triumph, but by your reckoning and if all that matters is strength, why don't they make the Hazet open end 635mm thick instead of 6.35mm thick? You would be guaranteed the open end would never spread

 

[frikic]

Can someone recommend good packaging tape dispenser.

 

[CanUK]

Nice haul CanUK. I dig that Accles & Shelvoke vice. Old?

Found one on ebay that has been up for £50 for a while.

Just got some info back from Accles and Shelvoke. The vice was produced until 1999 (they didn't say when it started but I don't imagine a very long time before that):

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[north]

Cool. I found this page earlier. Note the catalog pic and the year 1937 Listed Exhibitor... Quick-grip Manufacturing Machine Vices.

 

[CanUK]

Cool. I found this page earlier. Note the catalog pic and the year 1937 Listed Exhibitor... Quick-grip Manufacturing Machine Vices.

Good find! So maybe they were in production for a long time!

 

[JMcFly]

Got my 190L today!

Its pretty nice and very well built. I only paid 47 euros for it. Free shipping since it came over in a friends container packed full of mini coopers and a G wagen

 

[neophyte]

I understand that they make tools that bend at torque numbers where others hold their shape. Doesn't necessarily make the latter poor wrenches at all. As you stated they'll never see that abuse without mis-use anyway.



Yep, it clearly does, ranks them infact and names overall best wrench and overall best bargain. That was the point to the test. Read it.

Neophyte you need to watch less "1000 ways to die" and spend more time with your wrenches. Odds of breaking a quality wrench without a defect are nill and the only way something horrible like you described would happen would be if the user was an idiot putting, literally, hundreds of pounds of force on a combo wrench. Even trying such a tactic in the aerospace industry would get your **** canned in short order.

From this thread on Garage journal. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51783&page=2 "I broke a 10mm Craftsman, Craftsman pro, Snap-on, and Popular Mechanics on the same bolt one night. Pissed me off. All were warrantied, though.

The best one I remember is breaking a 3" HF wrench in spectacular fashion. The wrench wasn't really at fault, though. We already tried using the skid steer to turn the wrench, and it was picking up the skid steer, so we covered the entire affair with a heavy canvas tarp, and used the loader on the orange Allis:



It damn near had the front tires of the Allis off the ground before the wrench exploded into tiny pieces. Amusingly, the shock got the nut loose". nissan_crawler's example says that people do occasionally use wrenches in an inappropriate way that can cause them to shatter because they need to get a job done in a time frame. I've also seen people hammer on wrenches to brake a nut free. I'd like to believe anybody who does this knows the inherent risks if a tool fails, and how to mitigate the possible dangers, but I've known people who've done stupid things, or had managers have them do stupid things, whithout regard for the risk involved, and some of those people have gotten injured. If a little safety can be added, even if it means reducing long term reliability by a small amount sometimes it's worth it.

 

[Roverbo]

Just got some info back from Accles and Shelvoke. The vice was produced until 1999 (they didn't say when it started but I don't imagine a very long time before that):

If I were to judge, just from the look and techniques used in that flyer, I´d say that they are from the 50´s. Two-color printing, letterset press, hand drawings, hand-set typography (note the spacing of the letters in the fact columns). Love that style...

 

[CanUK]

If I were to judge, just from the look and techniques used in that flyer, I´d say that they are from the 50´s. Two-color printing, letterset press, hand drawings, hand-set typography (note the spacing of the letters in the fact columns). Love that style...

I agree about the style of the flyer, but the thing that makes me wonder if it's probably just "style" is the weight and measurements quoted in metric.

On the page linked by North there's another scan from 1964 that shows the weight only in lbs and the price in £ and shillings (I found an online calculator that puts that price in today's money at £245.00 using the retail price index, or £516.00 using average earnings) :

We can say for sure because of that link (and the email I got from Acvoke) though that a version of the vice existed from 1937 to 1999. I'll keep an eye out for any clues as to the actual age of mine when I get around to disassembling.

I sent a pic to a friend in Australia who says they used that style of vice when he worked for a white goods company down there ages ago. I wonder if they were exporting them that far.

 

[CanUK]

Old world bench grinder stand has arrived today!

View media item 28746
This is to match my recently acquired 6" Wolf grinder, although it appears it was made for the larger industrial grinder and I'll need to fab an adapter plate:

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