Minimal Oasis
Member
You are right - Snap On, not Stanley.
Tools from the old world
- Thread starter Monte
- Start date
You are right - Snap On, not Stanley.
kenburkholz
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2013
- Messages
- 241
To Minimal Oasis, the photos you have are very good. Very interesting tools,and your English is flawless. Happy to have you join G.J. Ken.
So what you have there are current (ie Stanley) vintage Facom nut drivers, and you're shaming Stanely for... producing what you refer to as real Facom tools?
Here are mine; same tool in the older (I believe pre-Stanley) version and the current version. No question the current tool is a better design and quality of finish - both are made in France:
View media item 25495
View media item 25497
View media item 25496
So it's not all bad. Just sayin...
Vidar Wulff
Well-known member
Canuk,i was bashing Stanley in general for producing the facom tools overseas.They produce the same tools just branding them differently.There is a difference between owning a factory producing its own brand versus how the situation is today mostly putting the brand on different random products.Btw nice nut drivers
Canuk,i was bashing Stanley in general for producing the facom tools overseas.They produce the same tools just branding them differently.There is a difference between owning a factory producing its own brand versus how the situation is today mostly putting the brand on different random products.Btw nice nut drivers
Yes, nice indeed thanks -at least the one made under Stanley, still in France, and the version you own and refer to as real Facom. Put nostalgia for an independent Facom aside and the older one is a bit rubbish in comparison.
Some things may be worse, some still the same, some better, but for certain it's not all bad even when produced overseas (I've not seen any complaints about 440 spanners for example, nor the pear-head ratchets).
Anyhow, who's to say any of these brands would have survived at all had they not been bought by Stanley? Maybe things weren't all sunshine and roses at Facom/Bost/Britool/USAG etc when they became targets for buyout.
Minimal Oasis
Member
Thanks, Ken. But I need to improve my basic english (and purchase more tools...).
For you, a great Weralit from the glorious drawer.
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Just multipurpose workshop snips, similar to these fiskars but made in Europe (ie. Quality):
Awesome! Thanks monte! I used them for a job today and they are brilliant.
Arrival this afternoon; a CMS-GE table ( the router insert and fence arrived a couple of weeks ago).
dimensionally the biggest OS delivery to date. 'heavy' bah, only 17kg
Fitted up my OF1400... Sliding table add on is coming...
dimensionally the biggest OS delivery to date. 'heavy' bah, only 17kg
Fitted up my OF1400... Sliding table add on is coming...
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cosmik binturong
Well-known member
Hi, my name is Massimiliano ("Minimal Oasis" anagrammed), I live in northern Italy, near Venice.
Wilkommen Massimiliano!
you'll find, like most of us, that you do not have enough german tools once under the ThreadMeister spell, you'll forget even Pastorino existed and, eventually, you'll find Salvation in neutral Swiss-made tool hoarding.
oh... do i like those old shoppes with dusty drawers full of surprisingly surprising surprises!Today I was in need of a little screwdriver, so I went to an old, well regarded hardware store. And then the old owner opened a drawer...
good job there.A lot of screwdrivers from '60s and '70s: Hazet, Usag, Stanley, Weralit. Small pliers (Usag) and standard pliers without insulation. Two VBW and two Pastorino.
I had to buy a little set of these old wonders!
you'll do fine with your english, you won't have much Stahlwille Rollmasters though.
Thank You very much, north!
There is the strangest item: a french SAM, phillips blade and wooden handle.
The blade is not cylindrical but carved (don't know the exact term). And notice the odd gasket between the blade and the handle.
On the metal stripe: "SAM baionnette - B.te SGDG - Chr. Molvanadium".
The yellow one is a very old and very battered Mundial, from an italian brand.
they sure did and are still doing so.
first pin please!
what happened to Pastorino is really sad, they're now not much more than an entry level tool brand for supermarkets and the like.
So what you have there are current (ie Stanley) vintage Facom nut drivers, and you're shaming Stanely for... producing what you refer to as real Facom tools?
Here are mine; same tool in the older (I believe pre-Stanley) version and the current version. No question the current tool is a better design and quality of finish - both are made in France:
View media item 25496
So it's not all bad. Just sayin...
no, not all is bad but you're comparing two tools made probably 35 to 40 years apart, the problem as i see it and as a lot of people see it too is that Stanley is introducing(much like Snap-On, Danaher, Apex, etc.) tool uniformity and delivering tools without the local flair there once was(one might even say peculiarities and quirkiness
), where a smallish brand could make some small production profitable, adapted to local use and easily distinguishable from the World Tool Behemoths offerings, like say, Thorex hammers or Erem pliers, would you say that the World would be a better place with those two under the control of StanleyB&D? the early version of your nutdriver was made for doing a job with the least production cost(the Isoryl handled screwies were cheapies) and it's still doing it since it survived all this time. it's not going to win any beauty contest though.
yes the newer one is beautiful but it's a design that was already in production pre-Stanley takeover. Stanley only took the new ****** handle that replaced the Endura ones and put it on the shanks:
(image lifted ignominiously from Ultimate Garage site: *click!*)
my nostalgia is for a time when different tools were produced for different needs and markets. now we have the exact same stuff sold all over the World under different brands and pricepoints: Facom, Proto, USAG, MAC, Britool, Sidchrome, Expert, Pastorino without much differences... it's quite sad in some sense.
the 440 series is not bad, a bit big-headed but not bad. now manufacturing seems to be back in France. ratchets are a trade-off: unserviceable and sold hopping the warranty terms don't change(like they did in the last ten years). the old round heads, you pop a new kit in and off you go.
maybe for some, maybe not for others. having purely financial objectives and managers/investors looking at each quarter results is not always better in the long run if you look at the germans tool makers. makers, not "rebranders".
do you think that the upper management of the tool conglomerates mentioned above have ever used a hand tool in their life? or that the industrial designers working on "tool aspect" and "brand differentiation" are that mechanically inclined too? or that the first one care about the workers making those tools and their accumulated know-how like in Bost case?
Some recent acquisitions
OMG! your toolboxes are so un-american now you'll make Snappy go bankrupt!
--
rant over.
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I just bought these from a garage sale yesterday they were 25 quid made in France, but I have no idea what to really use them for, only the 10 mill has the hole through the bend, any one know what there meant for? I mean over a normal spanner
Sent from the sticks
Sent from the sticks
dutch79
Well-known member
I needed a thread cleaning tool (edit: thread file ) and found this galvanized Belzer 1450d-ISO (metric):
It has 4 internal thread sizes at the end and 8 external sizes (pitch: 0,8 - 1 - 1,25 - 1,5 - 1,75 - 2 -2.5 and 3 mm). You're able to cleanup several threads (4+) at the same time. Not only 1 or 2 like with a 'threadmate' type tool. And internal threads is also extra compared to the threadmate.
) and found this galvanized Belzer 1450d-ISO (metric): 
It has 4 internal thread sizes at the end and 8 external sizes (pitch: 0,8 - 1 - 1,25 - 1,5 - 1,75 - 2 -2.5 and 3 mm). You're able to cleanup several threads (4+) at the same time. Not only 1 or 2 like with a 'threadmate' type tool. And internal threads is also extra compared to the threadmate.
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I have a set of those (Lang though, not Belzer) after I watched an engineer use one to restore a BSW thread on an old Grinder I was rebuilding. Mine don't have the internal-thread bit however.Crown Imperial
Well-known member
I needed a thread cleaning tool and found this galvanized Belzer 1450d-ISO (metric):
Holy **** that's an awesome thread file. Those 2 thread chasers at the end of the file are just icing on the cake.
We call that a thread file btw. At least in the U.S. And instead of "cleaning the thread" we call it thread chasing. Not that it matters. But just in case you wanted to know the proper terminology. At least the U.S. one. In the UK its probably called a royally hand operated semi oscillating circular thread restoring utensil.
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I don't disagree, and it would be great if these companies remained independent and were making outstanding tools entirely in their respective nations whilst remaining profitable enough to survive.
I do think though that it's far too easy to blame Stanley, when it might just be the case that they're responsible for saving the brands, and for preserving at least some of the tools and manufacturing that still takes place in Europe. Not that I think their motive was so pure and noble
As with most things, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.dutch79
Well-known member
There are also versions for sale currently from Gedore (Metric, Inch or WW):
http://www.gedoretools.co.uk/364-thread-workings?p=2
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I think I'd seen those when I was looking, but then I only paid £30 for my whole set:
View media item 36519
...those are double ended as well- just with a vinyl handle to slip over one end.
Welcome to this thread ! Awesome tool haul !!Hi, my name is Massimiliano ("Minimal Oasis" anagrammed
Belzer
...or Knipex nice selection...Some recent acquisitions
i have these here from Kretzer
so far so good
www.kretzerusa.com
btw. Milwaukee offers german made SDS bits too:
http://www.milwaukeetool.eu/accessories/drilling/sds-plus-rx4-4-cut-sets/
I just bought these from a garage sale yesterday they were 25 quid made in France, but I have no idea what to really use them for, only the 10 mill has the hole through the bend, any one know what there meant for? I mean over a normal spanner
Sent from the sticks
pass a screwdriver through, for adjusting valves?
picked up a few Systainers this morning, and a Bessey K-Body clamp extender that was on back order
Bessey K-Body clamp extender KBX20 - Made in china
it's 'durable aluminium' supposedly, 200mm and c. 750 g
At least Festool can manage to still make even plastics in Germany.
A package also arrived (from interstate, can you imagine?); with the added benefit of free postage, and a bonus abrasives sustainer thrown in - plus hat and key ring (not Festoolian though)
Festool Rotex RO 90 sander - Made in Germany
The Rotex RO 150 is great, the RO 90 comes with both a circular and delta ( triangular-ish) pads
A somewhat expensive collection of stickers, just as well the tools that come with them are free.
Bessey K-Body clamp extender KBX20 - Made in china
it's 'durable aluminium' supposedly, 200mm and c. 750 g
At least Festool can manage to still make even plastics in Germany.
A package also arrived (from interstate, can you imagine?); with the added benefit of free postage, and a bonus abrasives sustainer thrown in - plus hat and key ring (not Festoolian though)
Festool Rotex RO 90 sander - Made in Germany
The Rotex RO 150 is great, the RO 90 comes with both a circular and delta ( triangular-ish) pads
A somewhat expensive collection of stickers, just as well the tools that come with them are free.
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I don't think they are made in u.s.a on this my friend. i buy a few real u.s.a product after i read a news report that newell rubbermaid is closing the nerbraska factory!!! yeah, as you said : SHAME ON YOU NewellRubbermaid!And a question.I found these vise grips in a store,made in the usa.....when i came home i noticed the global components thing,so i wonder how much is really us made?
this the nos i found on the store, LIFE TIME WARRANTY!
cosmik binturong
Well-known member
cosmik ! goods recived!!!
hey! where's the second one???
hope it was in the parcel when you opened it...
thnaks to you too, i'm, as always, happy that you're happy with what you purchased and received and hope that you'll find a way to put those to good use too.and gift you gave
MERCI BEAUCOUP MON AMI
don't forget to post in my feedback thread what you think of all that!
ps. sorry for the 14mm Würth socket, i send you the bad one with some small chrome peeling. it should have gone to the Würth shop for warranty instead.
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Vidar Wulff
Well-known member
I don't think they are made in u.s.a on this my friend. i buy a few real u.s.a product after i read a news report that newell rubbermaid is closing the nerbraska factory!!! yeah, as you said : SHAME ON YOU NewellRubbermaid!
this the nos i found on the store, LIFE TIME WARRANTY!
Well,i was in a hurry when i found them,i guess they are just global parts assembled in us.The packaging say they are made in 2007,so i guess they had a person in the us riveting the parts togheter and add the spring.Nice score btw they must be from the eighties? I bought some original petersons in the mid nineties,and the packaging was yellow and blue.well i paid around 6 $ for the global made ones,so not a big loss,i think i will sacrifice them to the rust worms outside my workshop
this the nos i found on the store, LIFE TIME WARRANTY!
Well,i was in a hurry when i found them,i guess they are just global parts assembled in us.The packaging say they are made in 2007,so i guess they had a person in the us riveting the parts togheter and add the spring.Nice score btw they must be from the eighties? I bought some original petersons in the mid nineties,and the packaging was yellow and blue.well i paid around 6 $ for the global made ones,so not a big loss,i think i will sacrifice them to the rust worms outside my workshop
Vidar Wulff
Well-known member
Oh,and take care of your original vise grips,if you use the warranty you will get overseas ones as replacement
Vidar Wulff
Well-known member
As for my stanley bashing.....cosmic binturong mostly said what i had in mind.For me it seems like stanley just want to use the brand names,like the Facom 440 wrenches,i have seen them branded as usag and mac,and possibly they have them branded as britool,sidchrome etc. too? In my head that is not keeping a brand alive.That is getting the maximum out of one wrench design,stamped with different brands depending on where the different brands has a reputation for quality.The 440 series is a nice wrench,and i guess the quality is good,would i buy it? Nah,id rather search for some french made ones
dede2897234
Well-known member
Some recent acquisitions
Franzdom,
Which online store did you purchase the above PB Swiss tools?
Thanks,
Dave
Bosch GST 10,8 V-LI 10,8 volt jig saw
The tool:
the included accessoires: anti splinter insert, 2 jig saw blades, dust extraction tube, extraction hood
the details: SDS toolless blade exchange, 2 step orbital action settings, plastic overshoe
on-off switch, temperature/overload protection indicator light, battery gauge, on/off switch for the LED light
anti splinter insert and extraction hood mounted:
speed dial at the back of the tool:
wrench for the bevel adjustment of the footplate:
very slim body
plastic shoe removed: underneath is a steel shoe
The tool:
the included accessoires: anti splinter insert, 2 jig saw blades, dust extraction tube, extraction hood
the details: SDS toolless blade exchange, 2 step orbital action settings, plastic overshoe
on-off switch, temperature/overload protection indicator light, battery gauge, on/off switch for the LED light
anti splinter insert and extraction hood mounted:
speed dial at the back of the tool:
wrench for the bevel adjustment of the footplate:
very slim body
plastic shoe removed: underneath is a steel shoe
Franzdom,
Which online store did you purchase the above PB Swiss tools?
Thanks,
Dave
I got these from Toollady, not cheap but very nice.
upgrading
Well-known member
How do you like the grip on that ?
It seems like it would be kind of awkward to me.
yeah, i will. thanks for the advise my friend !!!
by the way here's some goodies for sale from the one & only COSMIK BINTURONG for your locking pliers craving
Beenman
Well-known member
I just bought these from a garage sale yesterday they were 25 quid made in France, but I have no idea what to really use them for, only the 10 mill has the hole through the bend, any one know what there meant for? I mean over a normal spanner
Also used in bleeding brakes where the bleed ****** is recessed (like rally-raid calipers). the slit allows the bleed-hose to pass through while loosening or tightening the bleed ******.
Hi, my name is Massimiliano ("Minimal Oasis" anagrammed
Today I was in need of a little screwdriver, so I went to an old, well regarded hardware store. And then the old owner opened a drawer...
...)
Hi, and welcome to this forum. Nice find! I wish there were more old toolstores like yours in Denmark...
So what you have there are current (ie Stanley) vintage Facom nut drivers, and you're shaming Stanely for... producing what you refer to as real Facom tools?
Here are mine; same tool in the older (I believe pre-Stanley) version and the current version. No question the current tool is a better design and quality of finish - both are made in France:
So it's not all bad. Just sayin...
This is an interesting discussion...and i think you have got a point there, many brands simply died because the quality and/or design wasn´t up to date. When everything suddenly grew global, the habbit of buying from a nearby manufacturer disappeared. I remember when my father changed job, and was introduced to Wera Kraftform screwdrivers (35-40 years ago) , suddenly the old Bahcos got off his shelf. Bahco made great, durable tools, but before the "Ergo" revolution, the design was old-fashioned, not very "hip" and not very user-friendly. But don´t get me wrong, i love old Bahco (and E.A. Berg).
Although i´m an old tools collector, this is really a good point. There is also a big difference between loving old tools and use them on and off for homework, and on your own car, and to be a craftsman with a schedule and timeplan for every job.
As for my stanley bashing.....cosmic binturong mostly said what i had in mind.For me it seems like stanley just want to use the brand names,like the Facom 440 wrenches,i have seen them branded as usag and mac,and possibly they have them branded as britool,sidchrome etc. too? In my head that is not keeping a brand alive.That is getting the maximum out of one wrench design,stamped with different brands depending on where the different brands has a reputation for quality.The 440 series is a nice wrench,and i guess the quality is good,would i buy it? Nah,id rather search for some french made ones
Same as above...Would i buy 440s for my collection? No. Would i trust them in a professional job: Yes.
Ok, just came home from Sweden (with no internet, so update reading here has taken some time! But, as usual, fantastic tools and stories). These are some of the old tools, i found on swedish fleamarkets:
View media item 42513Upson tools, USA. Never seen this brand before. "Hold-E-Zee" spring-loaded-grip-feature to hold the screw.
View media item 42515 View media item 42514
View media item 42516Old Wera and Bahco (yellow!) screwdrivers.
View media item 42520Ref. to the discussion above: The recent Bahcos (made in France) are simply miles ahead of this yellow thingy...
But then again: Do i own many new Bahcos? No. Many old ugly ducklings (and lovely green acetates)? Yes .View media item 42517Bahco Argentina 18 mm and Belzer 19 mm sockets (½").
View media item 42518From top: Kamasa, unknown german, kamasa and Belzer wrenches.
Kind of interesting:
View media item 42519The 8 mm Kamasa is from the "original" Kamasa, made in Japan. The 9/16 is later (my guess) and from West Germany. Strange.
View media item 42521Hacksaw, no-name, with West German blade "Röntgen".
The handle is made of aluminium.Torque wrench, ½", Britool. Made in England. Old school, Push-through and no ratcheting function!
The range is 30-140 Nm. After some cleaning and oiling, it works a treat.
View media item 42522EVT1200RR ...err..."RR" is that "made for Rolls Royce"?....
For me it was a bit strange at first use since i only own a top handle jig saw so it was different. But after a few cuts it´s ok
RRR - Robert Röntgen RemscheidEVT1200RR ...err..."RR" is that "made for Rolls Royce"?....
www.roentgen-saw.com
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/wkovGs7z9vI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Reca jig saw blades with carbide teeth from the flea market. €3.-
btw. soccer world championship related tools....
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Thanks for the link, Monte. Really cool brand, Röntgen!