Tools from the old world

[mr.lemons]

Not sure that Witte make any drivers for Hazet?

Not old world but Channellock make 'long reach' side cutters that look very similar to the Stahlwille/VBW. Standard side cutters and flush. 728 are cheapish on UK Amazon right now so going to give them a try.

728


758 (flush)

 

[neophyte]

Not sure that Witte make any drivers for Hazet?

Not old world but Channellock make 'long reach' side cutters that look very similar to the Stahlwille/VBW. Standard side cutters and flush. 728 are cheapish on UK Amazon right now so going to give them a try.

728

758 (flush)

I don’t have a oair of these, but Channellock is usually spot on as far as cutters go, at least as far as the jaw machining.

 

[voodooaw]

hey voodooaw, I can't see any of your attachments in either of your posts.

Same.
No pics.

Now it should work. Seems like the attachment thing is not working for me. Had to edit the HTML directly to show the Images.

Not sure that Witte make any drivers for Hazet?

Hazet used to ask Witte to make all its screwdrivers. It starts moving to Oplast beginning with 810 series, then 802, 815. Now even 803 "Trinamic" is made in Slovenia.

 

[JR 42]

A dude from Heyco once told me: Heyco = Germany, Heynen = Ireland, Heytec = Import. But since i´ve never seen an irish Heynen tool (labeled as "Ireland") i always doubt it.
On the other hand they own a forge in Ireland (Shamrock Forge & Tools in Ballina/Republic of Ireland)....
https://www.heyco.de/_EN/standorte.html
https://www.heyco.de/_EN/geschichte.html
...and it seems they produce tools there too. The internet says car tool kits and DIY tools....Maybe they do produce blanks there which then are finished over here hence they have the "Germany" on the tool because the last finishing steps are made here which is good enough to label it with "Germany". But the customs paper work says "Ireland" because in the US the COO labeling is more stringent...... ?

Thanks Monte, I've never run into Heynen or Heytec stuff before that I can recall... and most of the Heyco I come across are toolkit wrenches. I'm a couple months late, but here are pics of the Irish German 10mm combo with some other Heyco wrenches I've found over the years.

All the autokit wrenches are old enough to be stamped W Germany (the satin DIN pattern BMW wrench has a stupendous finish), and I've never seen a yellow zinc finish on combo wrenches before, just cheap- looking Asian DOE's.

 

[JR 42]

The black DOE's aren't marked Germany at all, and the Saab wrench is just odd- marked Heyco Import, and SAE.

 

[mr.lemons]

Hazet used to ask Witte to make all its screwdrivers. It starts moving to Oplast beginning with 810 series, then 802, 815. Now even 803 "Trinamic" is made in Slovenia.

Ah, a minor grammar mix up confused me, sorry.

Shame about the Stahlwille drivers. While cosmetic problems may not affect the use of the driver, it begs the question, has the same lack of attention to detail been consistent throughout all parts of the production process? Is the stuff we cannot see, like the heat treatment also rushed and finished without care? Hope not, but it's not very reassuring.

 

[voodooaw]

Ah, a minor grammar mix up confused me, sorry.

Shame about the Stahlwille drivers. While cosmetic problems may not affect the use of the driver, it begs the question, has the same lack of attention to detail been consistent throughout all parts of the production process? Is the stuff we cannot see, like the heat treatment also rushed and finished without care? Hope not, but it's not very reassuring.

Totally agree. The list price for the No.4 one is $20, so I would expect a serious tool. I don't need it to be flawless, as it's just a tool to use. But the sloppy markings and flawed handle just make me doubt the quality.
The Slovenia made Hazet screwdrivers used to be quite awful, with inaccurate tip dimension and poor mould for handles. But now Oplast is making really nice screwdrivers for Hazet and Gedore, in opposite to what Witte makes for Stahlwille.

 

[littlebean]

my last set of stahlwilles were pretty bad on the cosmetic details, so much so that i'm seriously considering starting again with pbswiss

 

[mr.lemons]

Made a video about my early impressions of Vessel ball grip handles and a couple of new tools that just arrived. Nearly 16 mins so a bit of a long one.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/r8lMGm-hePc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Not sure if the terms, needle nose, snipe nose and long nose are all interchangeable, I'm assuming they are in the vid.

mrspeed, posted a comparison between some different brands that make the same style of pliers looked at in the vid.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8075025&postcount=30897

 

[measuredtwice]

Mr. Lemons, I'm watching the video in parts as I find time and haven't finished yet. Good video. I think the Knipex cutters are misaligned by design. It lessens wear to the cutting edge and possibly the shearing helps with thin wire. I think Xuron and others have products with similar designs. There are also full or ultra full cutters that align precisely.

https://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&L=1&page=group_detail&parentID=1367&groupID=2477 (US website)

Shear cut with controlled micro cutting edge misalignment for the most precise cutting of even the thinnest of wires and for a long service life

 

[Dave455]

Made a video about my early impressions of Vessel ball grip handles and a couple of new tools that just arrived. Nearly 16 mins so a bit of a long one.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/r8lMGm-hePc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Not sure if the terms, needle nose, snipe nose and long nose are all interchangeable, I'm assuming they are in the vid.

mrspeed, posted a comparison between some different brands that make the same style of pliers looked at in the vid.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8075025&postcount=30897

Interesting video!

A couple of thoughts -

The terms “needle nose” and “snipe nose” are not really interchangeable. In British English they are different tools.

The first picture below shows a pair of needle nose, next to a pair of snipe nose pliers. Very different tools. These are both Knipex, but in their English language descriptions, Knipex use British English terms.

“Long nose” is generally used as an alternative to “snipe nose”

In American English, the term “needle nose” is used to describe what we would call “snipe nose“ pliers, so if you order carelessly you can end up with the wrong tool!

You also tend to find that American made tools of this pattern, such as the snap on ones you show, are much stronger than British or European ones. Sometime this is an advantage, sometimes not. I like having both available.

I suspect that the reason for this is that in the U.S. you seldom find British or European style combination pliers. You find slip joint, and also lineman’s pliers, but these are both different tools. I probably use my combination pliers more than any other pattern, but if I didn’t have them, I’d need my snipe nose to be stronger!

Finally, most of the pliers you show in your picture are actually “long reach” pliers. I have attached a picture showing a pair of 8 inch snipe nose pliers and 8 inch long reach pliers for comparison. Different makers, sure, but also different patterns of tool.

Long reach flat nose pliers are sometimes called “duckbill pliers” in the U.S. More confusion, as once again, that means something else in British English.

A very useful pattern though. Very standard in some industries (such as aviation) but less so in others, which is odd as I find them one of my most used patterns!

Clear as mud now? Jolly good! Carry on!

 

[PiperCub49]

Made a video about my early impressions of Vessel ball grip handles and a couple of new tools that just arrived. Nearly 16 mins so a bit of a long one.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/r8lMGm-hePc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Not sure if the terms, needle nose, snipe nose and long nose are all interchangeable, I'm assuming they are in the vid.

mrspeed, posted a comparison between some different brands that make the same style of pliers looked at in the vid.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8075025&postcount=30897

Do you know who makes the pliers on the very right? The ones with the dark red handle?

 

[mrspeed]

Do you know who makes the pliers on the very right? The ones with the dark red handle?

Wow, I'm being quoted! Yes, those were the Protos.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[ChefRex]

Finally, I got my five messages and I hope I can post my photos. I hope it's interesting.

Pretty sure I have 2 pairs of those, got them many years ago in the salvage yard, came in a Volvo tool kit, decent pliers, I click them tomorrow if I remember.

 

[PiperCub49]

Wow, I'm being quoted! Yes, those were the Protos.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Thank you for the help! Looks like they are the Proto 228G. I'm going to get a pair. I think I'm really going to like them for their stiffness when bending against the jaws when doing fine work with hard materials (i.e. thick wire).

 

[node105]

I do have the Festool Granat paper too and i think it´s not bad. Do you have a link ?

just saw this, I'll see if I can find it again

later:

found it!
Jonathan Katz-Moses
Which Sandpaper is the Best? Ultimate Sandpaper Showdown

Does a quite good comparison test, grams removed per time and cost per gram removed at time intervals.

Cubitron returns $0.04 /g removed, cf $0.37 for Makita for example. So the higher cost per sheet, is more effective and lasts longer, so more economical in the real world.

Cubitron came out demonstrably better than Mirka - the next in line.

I have been using Festool and Mirka for a few years now, I'll be sourcing some Cubitron to try out.

 

[node105]

New Old Stock Record 080 Cabinet Scraper

Just arrived today, in rather nice condition: New Old Stock Record 080 Cabinet Scraper. At somewhat more cost than the 16/- (shilling) marking on the box.

The Trade Label dates it: "Type #1: The lettering and border are in gold on a blue background with 'Trade' and 'Mark' either side of RECORD... 'Genuine' is on top of RECORD and 'Made in England' is underneath, from 1930 to 1955/6."

Some very minor pitting on the sole, gave it a light glass plate treatment and tested it out on a 120 year old beech workbench, works fine. Very comfortable fit in the hands.

 

[node105]

Delivered yesterday, fairly clean Record 044 plough plane. Quite comfortable in the hand

 

[node105]

Also arrived yesterday, 3 Sorby 'Kangaroo' gouges, boxwood handles. Generally nice condition, the surface finish grinding leaves something to be desired - it looks original due the uniformity. Boxwood handle are nice (always), but Record Boxwood is nicer colour usually.

 

[Dave455]

Do you know who makes the pliers on the very right? The ones with the dark red handle?

I was looking at those and thinking they were quite nice.

Very nicely designed tool with smooth curves and no sharp corners, which can be an advantage with this sort of tool if you’re reaching through wires and hoses.

Very similar to my old Record pliers, but compare to the Stahlwille / VBW with the green handles. A very different shape.

 

[Alaniho]

just saw this, I'll see if I can find it again

later:

found it!
Jonathan Katz-Moses
Which Sandpaper is the Best? Ultimate Sandpaper Showdown

Does a quite good comparison test, grams removed per time and cost per gram removed at time intervals.

Cubitron returns $0.04 /g removed, cf $0.37 for Makita for example. So the higher cost per sheet, is more effective and lasts longer, so more economical in the real world.

Cubitron came out demonstrably better than Mirka - the next in line.

I have been using Festool and Mirka for a few years now, I'll be sourcing some Cubitron to try out.

Just a by the by, Festool do not make abrasives themselves, the Festool Grant paper is made by SIA in Switzerland and rebranded Granat, dyed blue and sold at at a premium. Anybody using Granat can make a big saving by sourcing the equivalent SIA which is SIA1950 (the pink disc).

https://www.siaabrasives.com/global...tings-and-composites-4506/1950-siaspeed-4627/

 

[nadogail]

Interesting video!

A couple of thoughts -

The terms “needle nose” and “snipe nose” are not really interchangeable. In British English they are different tools.

The first picture below shows a pair of needle nose, next to a pair of snipe nose pliers. Very different tools. These are both Knipex, but in their English language descriptions, Knipex use British English terms.

“Long nose” is generally used as an alternative to “snipe nose”

In American English, the term “needle nose” is used to describe what we would call “snipe nose“ pliers, so if you order carelessly you can end up with the wrong tool!

You also tend to find that American made tools of this pattern, such as the snap on ones you show, are much stronger than British or European ones. Sometime this is an advantage, sometimes not. I like having both available.

I suspect that the reason for this is that in the U.S. you seldom find British or European style combination pliers. You find slip joint, and also lineman’s pliers, but these are both different tools. I probably use my combination pliers more than any other pattern, but if I didn’t have them, I’d need my snipe nose to be stronger!

Finally, most of the pliers you show in your picture are actually “long reach” pliers. I have attached a picture showing a pair of 8 inch snipe nose pliers and 8 inch long reach pliers for comparison. Different makers, sure, but also different patterns of tool.

Long reach flat nose pliers are sometimes called “duckbill pliers” in the U.S. More confusion, as once again, that means something else in British English.

A very useful pattern though. Very standard in some industries (such as aviation) but less so in others, which is odd as I find them one of my most used patterns!

Clear as mud now? Jolly good! Carry on!

We are separated by a common language.

 

[Kasal]

Beta limit edition

 

[mr.lemons]

I think the Knipex cutters are misaligned by design. It lessens wear to the cutting edge and possibly the shearing helps with thin wire. I think Xuron and others have products with similar designs. There are also full or ultra full cutters that align precisely.

https://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&L=1&page=group_detail&parentID=1367&groupID=2477 (US website)

Thanks for the info. So they work a bit like scissors or cable shears? In that case they are very precisely 'misaligned.' No visible light comes through and the cutting edges come together in parallel. Faith in Knipex restored.

Their little flush cut symbol should look more like this.

A couple of thoughts -

The terms “needle nose” and “snipe nose” are not really interchangeable. In British English they are different tools.

Cheers Dave, makes sense.

Unfortunately, each manufacturer seems to use the same set of names but apply them to different styles of pliers so it gets a bit confusing when communicating with people who also use the same names for different styles of pliers.

I actually rarely use standard combination pliers now in favour of long nose combination pliers which is why I also look for the more heavy-duty type. Obviously just a personal preference thing.

Picture of the long reach pliers was curtsy of mrspeed.

Wow, I'm being quoted!

Was digging through the archives.

Just arrived today, in rather nice condition: New Old Stock Record 080 Cabinet Scraper. At somewhat more cost than the 16/- (shilling) marking on the box.

Wow, you are finding some nice old tools.

I was looking at those and thinking they were quite nice.

I remember eyeing those when they were first posted, definitely the sleekest looking design.

 

[upgrading]

Nice Beta

 

[Avenging Bankroll]

nothing

 

[Dave455]

We are separated by a common language.

That’s a fact!

Things can get worse.

18 months ago I was learning to fly a new, Anglo / French, aircraft!

Parts of the manuals had started off written in British English, but had then been modified, and re written into American English, by a Frenchman, who I don’t think had ever been to the U.S.

I was being instructed by a German, who knew how the systems worked but couldn’t understand the manuals, who was plying me with beer to re write the important bits in understandable English, with non technical German subtitles...

 

[JR 42]

That’s a fact!

Things can get worse.

18 months ago I was learning to fly a new, Anglo / French, aircraft!

Parts of the manuals had started off written in British English, but had then been modified, and re written into American English, by a Frenchman, who I don’t think had ever been to the U.S.

I was being instructed by a German, who knew how the systems worked but couldn’t understand the manuals, who was plying me with beer to re write the important bits in understandable English, with non technical German subtitles...

Reminds me of this...

 

[mr.lemons]

Hopefully this clears things up.

Direct from the manufacture's websites.

 

[Avenging Bankroll]

nothing

 

[Dave455]

Hopefully this clears things up.

Direct from the manufacture's websites.

Haha! Clear as mud now!

In fairness, neither is really correct, or incorrect.

Knipex are using the British English term, Wiha are using the American term, that’s all. Channelock, being an American company, are using the American.

If in doubt, safest to go by the picture!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Would someone please tell me when this was made?

 

[mr.lemons]

Channellock 728 long reach side cutters just arrived, cut well, good replacement for the Stahlwille.

Surprisingly, came from Italy and only took five days.

 

[Reed Prince]

Made a video about my early impressions of Vessel ball grip handles and a couple of new tools that just arrived. Nearly 16 mins so a bit of a long one.

I just ordered this ball grip-ish PB Swiss driver from Amazon.jp. I don't think they are sold outside of Japan. Might turn out to be a useless mutant abomination, but I suspect that I will like it. I've been a fan of Vessel ball grips for 20 years.

 

[Qualitytools]

^ I too am a fan of the vessel balgrip. Tried them and liked the feel. Let us know about BP, maybe a comparison

 

[hautpot]

Why does japan get all the cool pb swiss

 

[node105]

Matador Elofort Indestro

This arrived today from flabby. A set of short spanners, with holes!

I thought the holes were home spun, which would have made them a no buy, but I checked the Matador website ( I thought), and they still make these - complete with holes. Of course I can't find the page now...


Their home page warrants a quote:
"MATADOR is a German pioneer in the tool industry. Since 1900 we have been producing quality hand tools "around the screw". MATADOR is the opposite of mainstream. We stand for upmarket premium tools. Reliable, design-focused, efficient. For decision-makers, fighters and everyday heros. For real MATADORs."

There are two Elofort and one Indestro (USA) in the group, and one unbranded. These are supposed to be used, but I can't see any sign of use. The unusual colour, seems to be original, and my recollection of a week ago or so, was that the listing on the 'matador' site, looked the same sort of unchromed, sort of BLO'd

 

[node105]

Second arrival this morning was a NOS Moore & Wright steel rule, and callipers.

The calipers replete with original preservative grunge. Cleaned up a treat.

The rule though, hmmm. NOS, not sure how 'old' this is . Looks recent and potentially off shore to me.

The markings are far too shallow, divider points just don't find the line like Japanese Arch and Shinwa.

The numbering seems 'fussy' too. Maybe a reaction to having been using a Starrett of late - really like the different line lengths for the 2/3 and 7/8 marks.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Re: Matador Elofort Indestro

I checked the Matador website ( I thought), and they still make these - complete with holes.

Why am I not surprised? Because it's a phenomenon that plays out in Europe with modern European tool makers with other wrench designs long forgotten and obsolete here in the US, and yet still demonstrating their perfectly functional utility in the hands of modern mechanics. Fixed offset socket wrenches and tubular cles a pipes from Facom and others are another great example. Bravo to them all, in my opinion. Here is a link to a thread down on the Vintage Discussion board dedicated strictly to the history of these antique and vintage "Auto-Kit" style wrenches, made for stowing in trunks/boots, under seats, in glove boxes, etc.

 

[TjoFrasse]

Stahlwille 'Mechanics oblique cutter.'

Unfortunately, the cutting edges don't close together properly. Squeezing just flexes the handles. They will not cut completely through wires or cable ties along about half the cutters.

I know faulty pliers isn't a big deal, and they are from Amazon so easy to return/exchange but these are my first Stahlwille pliers/cutters, so I'm a bit disappointed. My first VBW failure. Tempted to regrind them but there's no returning them after that.

I only have a couple of VBW pliers (mostly Stahlwille branded ones) but have seen no such design issues. They do make some odd choices though, the pair of Alligator-type pliers I have a painted black instead of having black oxide finish. Really strange and makes them feel cheap.

Got some new stahlwille drivers, they are marked as VSM parallel slotted tips. I put Wera and PB there for comparison.
Look at the laser marking and defected mould injection, German quality. No wonder even Hazet is moving away from Witte.

Wow, that's not OK. The missprint would be acceptable, but that moulding error should never have passed QC and been shipped to a customer.

Not old world but Channellock make 'long reach' side cutters that look very similar to the Stahlwille/VBW. Standard side cutters and flush. 728 are cheapish on UK Amazon right now so going to give them a try.

Thanks for the tip, that looks like a good design. In my experience Channellock is quite crudely finished, but works.

I just ordered this ball grip-ish PB Swiss driver from Amazon.jp. I don't think they are sold outside of Japan. Might turn out to be a useless mutant abomination, but I suspect that I will like it. I've been a fan of Vessel ball grips for 20 years.

Cool!

This arrived today from flabby. A set of short spanners, with holes!

I thought the holes were home spun, which would have made them a no buy, but I checked the Matador website ( I thought), and they still make these - complete with holes. Of course I can't find the page now...

Nice find!

Some recent purchases for me:

Some highlights first, like these NOS Dowidat pliers:

This Facom French made stubby T-handle:

And some questions!

Does anyone know what these Botalit special screwdrivers are for?

Does anyone know that these punches are for:

Searching for the part number (Tirem 3130) seems to just say normal parallel punches, but this one is clearly special. And it's not a custom grind, there's three of them.

I'm thinking some kind of buttons/rivets?