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Tools from the old world

LostBoy(IRL)

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Hardened heads are used for nails, tacks etc, for hitting softer items. They are hardened to last longer, they are not supposed to be used for hitting other hardened objects, that's what the softer heads are for.
Hammer heads come in quite a few different harnesses, but for me, I know my claw hammer is hardened, but the ball peens are not, so I use them accordingly
 
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mr.lemons

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I see. These are the MX ones, not the QuattroGripp.

Oh sorry, totally missed that there is more than one type of water pump pliers from NWS. :eek:

Cannot find much info about QuattroGripp, the NWS website is a bit difficult to navigate. Looks like you are right about them being no longer available.

gzdfgbzdgfbzdgbdcfgb.jpg
 
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mr.lemons

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More drill bits. Spotted these in Homebase.

They have flat sides (hex) to stop the drill slipping in the chuck. Would have saved me a lot of frustration. I see some other brands have a similar design.

IMG-20210103-135812.jpg


IMG-20210103-135818.jpg


There must be a busy drill manufacturer in Germany banging out drills for the big brands.

IMG-20210103-135823.jpg
 

lok

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Greece
Why? Isn't it generally a bad idea for a striking implement to be too hard, leading to brittleness?

Since they produce the same model in both normal and inductive hardened versions, there must be a reason — and a downside, otherwise they'd make all of them inductively hardened.

Maybe I didn't put it right the first time..

I guess, the edges of the hammer have extra processing to achieve the right hardness to prevent brittleness
The way that I understand it is that this is an additional stage in the processing to achieve the right hardness.
I assume they use this method for the tempering which is used to increase the toughness.

View media item 109437
View media item 109436
 

Dave455

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If you guys could only pick one bit holding screwdriver what make and model it would be?

PB 186 M, no doubt about it.

Nothing fancy, just a good solid handle and a nicely made blade.

I like these so much I have several, one in my shop, one in my road box, another at home etc etc, each with an appropriate selection of bits!
 

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measuredtwice

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If you guys could only pick one bit holding screwdriver what make and model it would be?

Tough question. It's nice to have multiple sizes... long, short, mini, stubby.

My smallest one is the Wera 051274.

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I also have several sizes from PB Swiss and other brands.

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If I could only have one. I would definitely get one with a solid handle so that it would stand up to all sorts of work.

But there are also drivers with bit storage. A lot of companies are copying Picquic and Megapro now that the patents are too old to be enforced.

attachment.php


The MegaPro uses magnets to hold the bit storage closed. The Wiha uses latches and some have said that the latches break. The MegaPro doesn't have the latches so it should be more durable. The Picquic is even more durable but it requires long bits and the handle is bulky. With a solid handle, there's not much that can go wrong. That's why I recommend a solid handle if you can only have one.

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I think a European shopper would probably be best off buying a couple of different sizes of German or Swiss drivers with solid handles. If there's still money to spare, you might get a driver with bit storage too.
 

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RoundedNut

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If you guys could only pick one bit holding screwdriver what make and model it would be?

Not from the old world but Canada. This is my best, uses a collet to hold bits:

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/sho...itas-magnetic-screwdriver-handle?item=05K0201

From the old world, which tends to use mostly 1" insert bits, the Witte bit holders are excellent and my best of the Felo, Wiha, Wera, Bahco, Hazet, etc. that I have. Very strong magnet in a thin holder.

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00A2QMQ72/
 

cheechi

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Triad, NC
But there are also drivers with bit storage. A lot of companies are copying Picquic and Megapro now that the patents are too old to be enforced.

attachment.php

I didn't know about that automotive driver that uses 1" insert bits. Now I want to buy it. I have several Megapro drivers and what I'm assuming are the first gen of those Wiha drivers, they each use (different) proprietary double end bits. I always wished either of them came with 1" insert bits.


The MegaPro uses magnets to hold the bit storage closed.
I never took mine apart, i didn't know they worked on magnets i thought it was like a friction slide. thanks.
 

measuredtwice

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I didn't know about that automotive driver that uses 1" insert bits. Now I want to buy it. I have several Megapro drivers and what I'm assuming are the first gen of those Wiha drivers, they each use (different) proprietary double end bits. I always wished either of them came with 1" insert bits.

The standard insert bits is a big plus.

I never took mine apart, i didn't know they worked on magnets i thought it was like a friction slide. thanks.

I got that from reviews and can't confirm it... until the post office delivers. ;)

All of this talk about drivers gave me the nudge to finally order the MegaPro. I'm happy with my Snap-On ratcheting screwdriver and didn't really need another. But looking at all the new drivers that are copying MegaPro got me interested in giving a little support to the patent holder.
 

E.T.

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NV
I’ve got few ratcheting drivers, Snappy, Bahco, Williams (all same mechanism) Bunch of types of Vessel, a Witte (made by Schroeder) and the automotive Megapro.

Megapro is my favorite by far. Only improvement I could think of is a knurled shaft.
 
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superautobacs

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Interesting to learn about Megapro's patent running out. No wonder when Wiha came out with theirs I thought to myself, "that looks just like my Canadian made, Megapro!".
I've had mine for 10 years now and it has a great ratcheting action, even when compared with many of the major brands I've handled.

Yes, E.T., I wished it had a section of knurling on the shaft as well.
 

snowblindb

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Felo 0715753711

Looks solid! Felo make some good handles.

the wiha 1000v insulated one.

Correction: It’s a Felo 518.

This could be useful if there could be just one in the house and I have to do some electrical work.

PB Swiss Insider, bits are awesome as well as the design for holding the bits inside with a screw top.

PB Swiss is probably most interesting one to me because so many people have talk about it but I have not held one in my hands.

so many good ones, that Felo is top tier though.

i use a ratcheting driver as much if not more than a standard one, so i will disqualify myself

Please don't disqualify yourself :D
Ratcheting drivers are fine and not out of this question!

PB 186 M, no doubt about it.

Nothing fancy, just a good solid handle and a nicely made blade.

I like these so much I have several, one in my shop, one in my road box, another at home etc etc, each with an appropriate selection of bits!

The classic handle is so nice. Brings back some memories from my dads toolbox and some old screwdrivers that had that style of handle. Is that slippery when wet?

Tough question. It's nice to have multiple sizes... long, short, mini, stubby.

My smallest one is the Wera 051274.


I also have several sizes from PB Swiss and other brands.


If I could only have one. I would definitely get one with a solid handle so that it would stand up to all sorts of work.

But there are also drivers with bit storage. A lot of companies are copying Picquic and Megapro now that the patents are too old to be enforced.


The MegaPro uses magnets to hold the bit storage closed. The Wiha uses latches and some have said that the latches break. The MegaPro doesn't have the latches so it should be more durable. The Picquic is even more durable but it requires long bits and the handle is bulky. With a solid handle, there's not much that can go wrong. That's why I recommend a solid handle if you can only have one.

I think a European shopper would probably be best off buying a couple of different sizes of German or Swiss drivers with solid handles. If there's still money to spare, you might get a driver with bit storage too.

Lots of info thank you. That is true that one can't be good for every job that there is. I have used that MegaPro lookalike Wiha at my old workplace but didn't like the handle. It was too bulky for my hands. It was good for short repair jobs but I wouldn't like to keep it all day in my hand.

Not from the old world but Canada. This is my best, uses a collet to hold bits:

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/sho...itas-magnetic-screwdriver-handle?item=05K0201

From the old world, which tends to use mostly 1" insert bits, the Witte bit holders are excellent and my best of the Felo, Wiha, Wera, Bahco, Hazet, etc. that I have. Very strong magnet in a thin holder.

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00A2QMQ72/

Wow that Veritas really is some tool p*rn! If I ever have that I'm not sure if have the courage to actually use it or do I just look at it all day long :bowdown:
That collet also look like it really holds the bit and there is no wobble.

And the Witte looks like it could handle almost any job and the thin head is big plus.

I’ve got few ratcheting drivers, Snappy, Bahco, Williams (all same mechanism) Bunch of types of Vessel, a Witte (made by Schroeder) and the automotive Megapro.

Megapro is my favorite by far. Only improvement I could think of is a knurled shaft.

I also have old ratcheting Bahco wich was my go-to screwdriver at home but I think that there is time for improvement.

Thanks you some much for the answers. You gave me something to think about.
My question was maybe too "wide". I should specify it before asking.

But anyway, here is some background for the question.
I have lots of tools but they are usually out of reach when I need them at home. I live in apartment so there is no room for tools and girlfriend at the same time, so I chose the lady instead of tools :dunno: But don't worry I didn't sell my tools they are just in my work car, warehouse and in my brothers garage.

So I got this idea of making one small toolbox for inside home use only. Im thinking that I use Systainer T-Lock because it fits just right to the shelf at my walk-in closet. Milwaukee Packout and even Sortimo L-Box are just too big.

Toolbox should contain only quality essential hand tools and nothing more. I started to think something that use most at home and it was my old Bahco ratcheting screwdriver. So I started to look a replacement for that. One problem with bit holding screwdrivers are that the bulky head and short bits don't reach and fit to narrow places. I'm thinking to use E6 bits (aka power bits 50mm/2" or longer) but they tend to wobble in normal bit holding screwdrivers. As I was writing this and did some more searching I came across Wiha 76000 SoftFinish CentroFix that holds only E6 power bits (so they claim at KC Tool site but I'm not sure if it holds also 25mm/1" bits).
76000.jpg

That Wiha and Wera Kraftform looks like they could handle the E6 power bits easily. PB Swiss with ratchet is also interesting. Has anyone tried E6 bits to PB Swiss 8510 R-30 or any PB Swiss are they wobbling?
Sorry for the long post. This is just something that has been in my mind for months.
 

Dave455

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The classic handle is so nice. Brings back some memories from my dads toolbox and some old screwdrivers that had that style of handle. Is that slippery when wet?

Although they look “old style” these are very modern tools. The handle material is much more durable than the soft ones, and nicer to use in the real world as you can wipe them clean relatively easily. I must admit I can’t ever recall using one of these in the wet.

PB offer some nice ratcheting drivers too, but there’s a lot more competition when you get to ratcheting drivers. I must admit, that even in my smallest portable tool box (the bottom tray of which is shown below) I tend to carry one of each, and a comprehensive set of bits. The non ratcheting driver is PB Swiss, and the ratcheting is Snap On, as they are slightly better still, in oily conditions.

Snap On do offer a superb selection of ratcheting drivers. I love both the short handled version, and the T handle, which are also shown, but PB win it for non ratcheting.
 

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pizza

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So I got this idea of making one small toolbox for inside home use only. Im thinking that I use Systainer T-Lock because it fits just right to the shelf at my walk-in closet. Milwaukee Packout and even Sortimo L-Box are just too big.

Toolbox should contain only quality essential hand tools and nothing more. I started to think something that use most at home and it was my old Bahco ratcheting screwdriver. So I started to look a replacement for that. One problem with bit holding screwdrivers are that the bulky head and short bits don't reach and fit to narrow places. I'm thinking to use E6 bits (aka power bits 50mm/2" or longer) but they tend to wobble in normal bit holding screwdrivers. As I was writing this and did some more searching I came across Wiha 76000 SoftFinish CentroFix that holds only E6 power bits (so they claim at KC Tool site but I'm not sure if it holds also 25mm/1" bits).

i'm also searching for a nice interchangeable long-blade solution.

i like that wiha centrofix handle. you can put long blades in there, and there's virtually zero wobble.

but if you didn't already buy the centrofix, i'd wait a bit (Q2 2021 i've heard) for this to come out:

PB-Rol-Fix.jpg


pb swiss insider 3 with rolgear "ratcheting" (smooth roller-bearing) mechanism and the wiha centrofix holder. with hex bolster.

but since i already have the old wiha centrofix handle... next time pb swiss goes on sale here, i'm buying some long E6 blades (E6L) and making a set out of it. i have this combo pictured in this thread:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=468842

there are some other interesting options in that thread including the felo smart set:


i forgot to ask back then when i made that thread, but does anyone know how the blade wobble is on felo smart set?

looks pretty cool. hard to say what i'd like more overall between that and my wiha centrofix with pbswiss E6L blades, but since i already own the centrofix, i think that's what i'm going with for now.

That Wiha and Wera Kraftform looks like they could handle the E6 power bits easily. PB Swiss with ratchet is also interesting. Has anyone tried E6 bits to PB Swiss 8510 R-30 or any PB Swiss are they wobbling?
Sorry for the long post. This is just something that has been in my mind for months.

i have the pb insider 3 (6510 R-30) and have tried it with E6 bits (power bits). there is some wobble, but it's not too bad unless it is a long bit. i would say that 2" bit is usable.
 
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snowblindb

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It is. It holds 6mm bits, not the regular 1/4.


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

6mm blade clears my confusion. I have never seen that handle before.

Although they look “old style” these are very modern tools. The handle material is much more durable than the soft ones, and nicer to use in the real world as you can wipe them clean relatively easily. I must admit I can’t ever recall using one of these in the wet.

PB offer some nice ratcheting drivers too, but there’s a lot more competition when you get to ratcheting drivers. I must admit, that even in my smallest portable tool box (the bottom tray of which is shown below) I tend to carry one of each, and a comprehensive set of bits. The non ratcheting driver is PB Swiss, and the ratcheting is Snap On, as they are slightly better still, in oily conditions.

Snap On do offer a superb selection of ratcheting drivers. I love both the short handled version, and the T handle, which are also shown, but PB win it for non ratcheting.

Yes and the hard handle feels great in hand. It gives good feedback when tightening.
That tray of tools looks super handy!
It starts to look like that I also have at least try some T-handle version. I think there is room in my toolbox for that too :thumbup:
I have to also find my local snap-on dealer somewhere.


i'm also searching for a nice interchangeable long-blade solution.

i like that wiha centrofix handle. you can put long blades in there, and there's virtually zero wobble.

but if you didn't already buy the centrofix, i'd wait a bit (Q2 2021 i've heard) for this to come out:
pb swiss insider 3 with rolgear "ratcheting" (smooth ball-bearing) mechanism and the wiha centrofix holder. with hex bolster.

but since i already have the old wiha centrofix handle... next time pb swiss goes on sale here, i'm buying some long E6 blades (E6L) and making a set out of it. i have this combo pictured in this thread:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=468842

there are some other interesting options in that thread including the felo smart set:


i forgot to ask back then when i made that thread, but does anyone know how the blade wobble is on felo smart set?

looks pretty cool. hard to say what i'd like more overall between that and my wiha centrofix with pbswiss E6L blades, but since i already own the centrofix, i think that's what i'm going with for now.



i have the pb insider 3 (6510 R-30) and have tried it with E6 bits (power bits). there is some wobble, but it's not too bad unless it is a long bit. i would say that 2" bit is usable.


Wow! When I first saw that PB Swiss Insider with Centrofix holder and ratchet it looked like you just photoshopped all my dreams to one screwdriver :bowdown:
I hope they also make it regular version without the bit storage. So it would be a tiny bit lighter. I think this is probably winning combo for me mainly because centrofix and ratchet. Price frightens me.
Btw It was also my plan to buy PB Swiss E6 bits to that new toolbox :beer: In my head they are superior bits compared to anything else.


One solution for me was to buy long bits in this set: Wera Kraftform Kompakt 62:
kk_62.jpg

They are 89mm/3,5" but I don't know if I need that long bits. Maybe I have to think about the bits more. The reason why I looked first to Wera was that I use Wera VDE screwdrivers every day at work and the handle fits just right in my hand and it's faster to use than anything that I have tried if you grip from the end of the handle. Downside with the Wera is that the long bits tend to wobble in the bit holding screwdriver because Rapidaptor.

And then there is the Turbo version with 1 to 4 "gearbox"
826_t_kraftform_turbo.jpg

Same problem with this, Rapidaptor only.


I don't know about the Felo Smart but there's something like that from Wera too:
kraftform_kompakt_vario_ra_sb_sis.jpg

Kraftform Kompakt Vario RA SB
This one is with ratcheting function but there is also one without.


I haven't seen pizza's thread before, nice to see that we share same "problem" :D


It's so nice to see that there is so much knowledge at GJ. Thanks to all again!

Edit: same weras were at pizza's thread :withstupi
Sorry about the flood.
 
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measuredtwice

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IMG_3142.jpg
The one on the left is a Wiha also.

What is the part number for the one on the left??

...Wiha 76000 SoftFinish CentroFix that holds only E6 power bits (so they claim at KC Tool site but I'm not sure if it holds also 25mm/1" bits).
76000.jpg

I have the Centrofix. It's the best that I've found for power bits like E6. It holds bits much more securely than others. It is not compatible with 1" insert bits. You would need to use an adapter if you wanted to use 1" bits.

Wiha has a different model for 1" insert bits... I think it's the one on the right posted by Jack above. --> https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8881463&postcount=32823
 
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Jack84

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IMG_3145.jpg
This was the bit looks like, just a straight shank. The handle has a magnet in it.

No part number on the handle.


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal
 

mr.lemons

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Not a solution for above, but I've been wanting to try this Wiha ClicFix bit driver for a while. Doesn't seam to be available any more. :sad:

cghmncxghmncghnmcgh.jpg
 

pizza

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PB-Rol-Fix.jpg


Wow! When I first saw that PB Swiss Insider with Centrofix holder and ratchet it looked like you just photoshopped all my dreams to one screwdriver :bowdown:
I hope they also make it regular version without the bit storage. So it would be a tiny bit lighter. I think this is probably winning combo for me mainly because centrofix and ratchet. Price frightens me.
Btw It was also my plan to buy PB Swiss E6 bits to that new toolbox :beer: In my head they are superior bits compared to anything else.

haha. glad you liked that. i wish it were real too :drool:

however, when you want something bad enough, sometimes you have to get creative.

i had a good look at all three components later in the day, and i think it might actually be possible to combine them into something like that pic. i want to try it.
i wish i owned a vise and a press. that would make it a lot easier.

but it looks like the ratchet part can probably be pressed out of the pbswiss insider 3 from the inside:

pb-insider-3.jpg


but i should probably xray it before trying to make sure there are no surprises. it would be a shame to ruin this expensive-*** pb driver.

and the rolgear is easy enough to take apart:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/MuXOYWUeDTI" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

maybe the rolgear could be pressed into the pbswiss handle.

after that, it's a question of if the centrofix can be fit sturdily into the rolgear. i bet there's a way.

51-Bt-Qsa2-Ga-L-AC-SL1500.jpg


i know the centrofix seems like an odd choice for a handle with regular bit storage since centrofix is for power bits, but regular bits don't get trapped in there. they protrude enough to be usable imo. and i could also use it for longer (E6L) bits as needed.

or hey, if you like the wera handle, maybe you could try sacrificing one of those.

take this one from your post for example:

826_t_kraftform_turbo.jpg


i'm not sure of the best way to remove the rapidaptor, but maybe worst case you could heat the shaft with a torch and melt the plastic a little lol. and then epoxy a centrofix in its place.
 
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JBH

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Jan 17, 2018
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811
Ratcheting drivers are fine and not out of this question!

If that's the case, PB Swiss followed by the new Felo (value for money champion) and Würth's with Reverse Gear mechanism, convertible pistol-ratchet handle, and illumination. PB wins for smoothest ratchet, best bit holder, and Goldiocks handle size.

I came across Wiha 76000 SoftFinish CentroFix that holds only E6 power bits (so they claim at KC Tool site but I'm not sure if it holds also 25mm/1" bits).

It won't, but it will hold the double-sided Wiha "Ultradriver" bits just fine.

but if you didn't already buy the centrofix, i'd wait a bit (Q2 2021 i've heard) for this to come out:

PB-Rol-Fix.jpg


pb swiss insider 3 with rolgear "ratcheting" (smooth ball-bearing) mechanism and the wiha centrofix holder. with hex bolster.

The Rolgear mechanism is a step down from PB Swiss's ratchet. Last quarter I bought the Hazet "Santastools" set with the bit-holding "Rolplast" design, as well as Gedore's solid "Silentgear" Rolplast variant.

View media item 107670
In the back of my mind I thought Hazet Rolplast would be my new go-to. It didn't work out that way. Like Wiha Topra (another clutch design), Rolgear has some "stiction" that ends up being providing more resistance than PB Swiss's backdrag.

The recent-released ratcheting bit-driver that has impressed the hell out of me is Felo's. Backdrag is quite low, so low that the slightest pressure on the bitholder ring will be sufficient to actuate the ratchet. Also, can't beat Ergonic handles. It does wobble a bit, but given how stupid cheap it is that's IMO forgivable.

Not a solution for above, but I've been wanting to try this Wiha ClicFix bit driver for a while. Doesn't seam to be available any more. :sad:

cghmncxghmncghnmcgh.jpg

Interesting - that looks like a hot-rodded System 6.
 

pizza

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If that's the case, PB Swiss followed by the new Felo (value for money champion) and Würth's with Reverse Gear mechanism, convertible pistol-ratchet handle, and illumination. PB wins for smoothest ratchet, best bit holder, and Goldiocks handle size.

i agree that the pb insider 3 feels great in hand and has nice bit storage. one thing i'd like to compare it to is the wiha 26-in-1 ultradriver. it's cool how many bits the ultradriver holds, but i doubt it feels as solid as the pb storage. have you tried it? curious of your overall impression if so.

here's my review of the insider 3 fwiw: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=8824906#post8824906

also, which wurth driver do you mean?
this zebra one? https://www.wurthusa.com/Tools/Hand...6-Bit-Magazine-(Bits-Not-Included)/p/06136400

06136400.jpg-515Wx515H


I came across Wiha 76000 SoftFinish CentroFix that holds only E6 power bits (so they claim at KC Tool site but I'm not sure if it holds also 25mm/1" bits).

It won't, but it will hold the double-sided Wiha "Ultradriver" bits just fine.

it actually holds 1" bits fine. they don't get trapped, and they stick out enough to be perfectly usable imo. but for sure you won't hit recessed fasteners. need power bits for that.

PXL-20210110-102126198.jpg


The Rolgear mechanism is a step down from PB Swiss's ratchet. Last quarter I bought the Hazet "Santastools" set with the bit-holding "Rolplast" design, as well as Gedore's solid "Silentgear" Rolplast variant.

View media item 107670
In the back of my mind I thought Hazet Rolplast would be my new go-to. It didn't work out that way. Like Wiha Topra (another clutch design), Rolgear has some "stiction" that ends up being providing more resistance than PB Swiss's backdrag.

is that hazet rolplast the advent one in that cool foam case (maybe EVA foam)?

regarding the rolgear, idk, i can't describe it as anything but smooth. smoother than the pb swiss mechanism, and i can't reproduce the stiction issue you describe. no matter how i play with it, i can't get any backdrag-like effect that gets anywhere close to the pbswiss backdrag.

although less backdrag is always better, i actually don't mind the pbswiss backdrag. i like the feel of the ratchet mechanism. enjoyable tactile experience. however, the thing that actually drives me nuts about it is the slop in the neutral position with the ratchet not engaged. pretty annoying when you want to use it as a normal, non-ratcheting screwdriver. just eyeballing it, i wanna say there's about 30° of slop? is yours also like that?

so with that said, i definitely like the rolgear mechanism more so far. basically no backdrag, less neutral slop, and the direction changer is kinda cool. it wouldn't surprise me if the pbswiss mechanism is sturdier though.

The recent-released ratcheting bit-driver that has impressed the hell out of me is Felo's. Backdrag is quite low, so low that the slightest pressure on the bitholder ring will be sufficient to actuate the ratchet. Also, can't beat Ergonic handles. It does wobble a bit, but given how stupid cheap it is that's IMO forgivable.
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which felo? i think i missed that one.
 
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mr.lemons

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All this has got me looking a PB Swiss bits again, reading reviews, watching YouTube vids.

Two vids by the same guy.



Worth watching the first few mins of the second vid which explains a bit about the coloured coating. I always assumed it was some sort of anodizing to make them look pretty and maybe for rust protection, but it seems that there is more to it. According to the vid, the bits are 'Plasma' coated. Interesting info about heat protection and how the different colours relate to the thickness of the coating.

Comparison to diamond coating here.
http://www.pbtools.us/uploads/Precision_Bits_Nanotech_Coating.pdf

Not sure how much of the above is just sales babble and how much makes a practical difference. :dunno: Cool though.
 
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