Tools/machines that have become obsolete?

[rharman]

Brake Shoe Rivet Presses.

Oh... I remember those from when I worked at a Harley-Davidson dealer.
I was 18 years old and blown away that they re-riveted linings on the drum brakes.
Amazingly, when the first disc brakes started showing up, we sold rivet-on linings for a couple of them.

 

[rharman]

I can't say it's fully obsolete, but neither my biscuit joiner nor the one at work have been touched since we started using Kreg jigs and pocket hole screws.

If I'm going by the YouTube videos I watch, if anything is going to make a biscuit jointer obsolete it's Dominoes

I'll occasionally use the biscuit joiner in conjunction with pocket holes. Makes for a very strong joint. Did that on some super heavy-duty drawers for a closet - 3/4" melamine to match the existing closet system.

Dominos are nice but sure are pricey. I probably have a lifetime supply of biscuits to use up first.

 

[Bubba Fett]

Reed & Prince driver. I have not seen that type of screwhead in 30+ years.

I still run into Frearson screws from time to time, so I may get a Reed and Prince driver for them. Bits are OK, but I seem to lose them.

BTT:

Some people have made the claim that slip joint pliers are obsolete. I disagree. I used them almost every day.

 

[cvairwerks]

Brake Shoe Rivet Presses.

They’re in use in almost every light aircraft shop out there. New pads for Cleveland brakes are under 25$, while the pads preinstalled on the backing plates are several hundred bucks.

 

[Joe Huld]

I have an 1899 Rockford lathe that was upgraded to electric motor in 1914. It was originally powered by a water wheel in a factory in New Hampshire. The motor still works, but I took it off so not to wear it out. I use an old 1990’s motor for it now.

I have 2 Westinghouse "C" electric motors that were in service driving the line shaft in a machine shop from 1904 to 1991, the babbit bearings are still good. I am using a 1 HP Century repulsion-induction motor to drive a lathe and 2 drill presses and a 3/4 HP Century repulsion-induction motor to run an air compressor. Electric motors run for many decades if kept lubricated and not overloaded.

 

[Old Man Roger]

I have 2 Westinghouse "C" electric motors that were in service driving the line shaft in a machine shop from 1904 to 1991, the babbit bearings are still good. I am using a 1 HP Century repulsion-induction motor to drive a lathe and 2 drill presses and a 3/4 HP Century repulsion-induction motor to run an air compressor. Electric motors run for many decades if kept lubricated and not overloaded.

Nice. If I ever decide to restore it, I’ll put the old motor back on. For now I’ll just keep using the newer motor.

 

[kyrbz]

I use to really want an overarm pin router because I use to do a lot of routing from templates. CNC has probably put a big dent in the market for pin routers. I could see them still useful for shops with CNC in terms of if you're making hundreds of the same part, you could have someone at a lower pay scale doing pin routing and free up time on the CNC for other work.

 

[Firebrick43]

I use to really want an overarm pin router because I use to do a lot of routing from templates. CNC has probably put a big dent in the market for pin routers. I could see them still useful for shops with CNC in terms of if you're making hundreds of the same part, you could have someone at a lower pay scale doing pin routing and free up time on the CNC for other work.

They have the lower pay guy load/unload the machines, deburr/desplinter? And crate the parts.

And the higher paid employee runs, changes tools, and loads programs on two or three CNC routers at a time.

With modern CAM and nesting software parts dxf files from the customer can be started from receipt of file in minutes depending on complexity.

Plus no one has to spend the time or skill making a template.

I guess a template could be made on the CNC but have someone pump out parts on a overarm router would be mainly for a company that has cash flow or credit issues and could pony up for another CNC.

 

[kyrbz]

They have the lower pay guy load/unload the machines, deburr/desplinter? And crate the parts.

And the higher paid employee runs, changes tools, and loads programs on two or three CNC routers at a time.

With modern CAM and nesting software parts dxf files from the customer can be started from receipt of file in minutes depending on complexity.

Plus no one has to spend the time or skill making a template.

I guess a template could be made on the CNC but have someone pump out parts on a overarm router would be mainly for a company that has cash flow or credit issues and could pony up for another CNC.

The last company I worked for was a fairly large architecture firm that had a pretty state of the art fabrication shop. Only one CNC router which was typically booked up doing case work and custom one off stuff. The CNC operator did much of the programming, maintained the machine and tooling, had to load the sheet material, and after parts were cut he would label them and put them on carts. From there other guys took over the sanding, edge banding, assembly, and finishing. That company also produced their own furniture line. The furniture line was kind of a vanity thing, not a high volume source of revenue. Usually when things were slow, they'd put guys to work on the furniture line. Many furniture parts were made from templates made on the CNC with the final parts made on a shaper. That model kept the CNC more available for the custom work and guys down the line busy when there was less assembly and finish work. I think the Onsrud CNC router they have was in the 200k range. I know a second CNC router was considered but it was ultimately decided that the amount of work run through the shop didn't justify a second CNC. I don't know how many shops I've seen fold because they over invested in tools in good times and couldn't make payments on them in lean times. Lot's of boom and bust in the fabrication industry but I think the company I used to work for has really found their sweet spot being able to crank out a lot of high end quality work in boom times, but able to weather lean times by not being over invested in machines and having a relatively small, tight, talented crew.

 

[WisJim]

I've had a number of "Yankee" spiral screwdrivers, and currently have the long handled one in the bottom pic. Haven't used it in decades.

I have lots of them, and I use one or two of them almost every day. I have a 135 that is handier than getting out a screwgun and slips into my back pocket just fine.

 

[Firebrick43]

The last company I worked for was a fairly large architecture firm that had a pretty state of the art fabrication shop. Only one CNC router which was typically booked up doing case work and custom one off stuff. The CNC operator did much of the programming, maintained the machine and tooling, had to load the sheet material, and after parts were cut he would label them and put them on carts. From there other guys took over the sanding, edge banding, assembly, and finishing. That company also produced their own furniture line. The furniture line was kind of a vanity thing, not a high volume source of revenue. Usually when things were slow, they'd put guys to work on the furniture line. Many furniture parts were made from templates made on the CNC with the final parts made on a shaper. That model kept the CNC more available for the custom work and guys down the line busy when there was less assembly and finish work. I think the Onsrud CNC router they have was in the 200k range. I know a second CNC router was considered but it was ultimately decided that the amount of work run through the shop didn't justify a second CNC. I don't know how many shops I've seen fold because they over invested in tools in good times and couldn't make payments on them in lean times. Lot's of boom and bust in the fabrication industry but I think the company I used to work for has really found their sweet spot being able to crank out a lot of high end quality work in boom times, but able to weather lean times by not being over invested in machines and having a relatively small, tight, talented crew.

It does depend on the company and its market. One size doesn’t fit all. I have seen seemingly successful business collapse from debt load and a mild recession as well.

On the flip side I have seen small business fold because they didn’t reinvest.

We had a small weld shop/plasma cutting shop locally here that went belly up a few years ago. While successful for many years he wouldn’t buy CAM software and was manually programming things by hand and charging the customer time to do so.

His plasma table was not all that hot on accuracy or cut quality but not trash.

Once another shop took off that didn’t charge time to program (they use CAM) and had a high definition table that did a real nice job and reduced bevels in thicker material.

When the first guy finally broke down and bought CAM it was too late. His previous customers had gotten a taste of better accuracy/cut quality and were not coming back even if they had to drive 30 miles.

 

[Steve from Socal]

This was 30 years ago but, we had two Shoda dual pallet gantry routers and a couple pin routers to do simple small runs. At the time it was quicker to run a few parts on a pin router than time on a Shoda. While a lot of machines and tools ARE obsolete they still have a place in shops around the world.

In that same shop we had a pallet loading CNC panel saw, along with several table and panel saws to process sheets when the big saw was down. Having back up equipment or older machines for simple/second opps is not only smart but, keeps the wheels rolling albeit at a slower pace when, TSHTF.

I understand not all shops have the space or help to use older machines, space is money I get it, but having options is really nice.

 

[seber]

I'll occasionally use the biscuit joiner in conjunction with pocket holes. Makes for a very strong joint. Did that on some super heavy-duty drawers for a closet - 3/4" melamine to match the existing closet system.

Dominos are nice but sure are pricey. I probably have a lifetime supply of biscuits to use up first.

Temu now has dominos for next to nothing. Quality may be even a little better.

 

[RPH]

Obsolete for production use is one thing.

Still very desirable for home shop/hobby/custom is a very different thing. In my world, smaller shapers, horizontal mills, jig borers, stick welders, Sun distributor machines, et al, still sell quickly.

OTOH, I just saw a mechanically mint Haas CNC turret mill sell for scrap price because the software and circuit boards were no longer being supported. The electronics would no longer send commands and there is no way to operate it manually. Result is a 75-year-old Bridgeport mill is worth more than a 25-year-old CNC machine.

jack vines

Yet, I’ve done new controls upgrades on CNC equipment. Hardest job was getting the control guys not to tamper with wiring connections. Mine did on the last job. Nightmere to get connections together. Long time tracing wires and cables, verification of operation was dangerous at best. We ripped out all motors, interconnect, controls. Went from Siemens CNC to an Allen Bradly system.

 

[speed bump]

Good luck welding in rain/mud/snow with a mig welder,or some rusty old piece of scrap in a field.

FCAW does awesome at that stuff, typically when we need to do a lot of welding it's wire feed because you eliminate arc starts and can lay down so much more material. The only reason we don't do more wire feed in the field is a 12vs, spool, and gun is like 75 lb. With the influx of new guys we have I'm thinking hard about the Miller that takes an 8" spool and would be under 50 lb.

 

[Lassen Forge]

It all kinda depends on what you do, what your hobbies are, do you do a lot of one off work, etc... Someone mentioned brake rivet presses earlier - if you own a model T (where you have to replace transmission bands every so often) or work on old stuff, that would be a godsend. (I had one, my dad borrowed it, he passed on, his 3rd wife's kids, not knowing what they had sold it for $25)...
For me, things like a Bridgeport Knee Mill, a good lathe, etc, are a blessing... because I work on old ****, so you end up having to make one off parts. IF you make production quantities, then yeah, that "****" is so outdated it costs you m ore in individual set up time than your time is worth. If you make, fer instance, valve spring retainers for 1920's Maxwells, then hell yes, you NEED tools like these because (a) no one makes them, (b) programming a CNC to make 3 would take longer than just doing it, and (c) the demand for these are, other than (us) idiots who rebuild/restore ancient mechanical stuff, damned near nil.

On one of my old car sites, someone was bitching because no one anywhere has a certain widget to replace a broken part. IF you have the old school manual machines, then you can make them at a cost of damned near nothing other than time, materials, and maybe heat treating.... you can make the parts you need (and maybe a few extras for friends) and go on with your life. If I wanted to, say, machine a bushing for a dual overhead Miller head from the 1920's, well, you either make it or you spend a ton to have someone make it for you.

Me? I would damned near DIE for a good Bridgeport and Hardinge toolroom lathe and an annealing oven that is 5º or better accurate.... People tend to (or have to) "make do", and I'm not saying there aren't good people out there making quality repop stuff.... but there's a lot more who got to the point of "It won't run more than 1000 miles, so no one will notice"....

So... because, well, yeah, I make it, I KNOW that the quality level is 110%. I've spent good, hard earned money for stuff I KNOW (and have tested as such) is MAYBE 50% of an original... I can make one at or better than original, but for lack of the "toys" to make it.

 

[Gurp]

Spark plug cleaners I would say are definitely obsolete.

I have one of these on my cabinet I still use it working on small engines.

I have a small collection of dwell meters. Still needed if you're messing with old cars or tractors. although i have to admit I'm thinking about upgrading my Dist on my old truck to eliminate dwell...

As far as small mechanics tools Less and less people are seen knowing what they are or using socket caps these days.

 

[ecotec]

Breaker bars.

(Not strictly true, but close enough for many people. Facom sells a lot of socket sets without a breaker bar these days.)

There are modern ratchets with better specs than old breaker bars.

I still have and use breaker bars, though.

 

[bpwoodworking]

I use to really want an overarm pin router because I use to do a lot of routing from templates. CNC has probably put a big dent in the market for pin routers. I could see them still useful for shops with CNC in terms of if you're making hundreds of the same part, you could have someone at a lower pay scale doing pin routing and free up time on the CNC for other work.

It's been my experience than manual machines setup for a single task are often competitive or faster than CNC. I have a Maka swing chisel mortiser setup for cutting one type of mortise for one type of door that I make. It cuts perfect rectangular mortises in about 5 seconds. I can crank through door mortises in absolutely no time.

CNC doesn't compete with that level of speed until you get to dedicated machines, and they really only beat the setup time since you still need to have an operator standing in front of them at all times.

There are plenty of similar things from the 80's where non-CNC automation was excellent. Another example being the four spindle carving lathes that use a wood template. Chuck up your wood template and make four identical carvings per setup and none of them have router marks all over them that require tons of sanding. In fact many of those machines are setup to do the rough sanding also. These are lightning quick by comparison to the standard giant wood router version of a CNC (even the huge stuff that uses gigantic tooling)

Not nearly as many factory workers know how to setup these old machines so you can buy them for next to nothing and save the $150k needed for the comparable CNC and invest it elsewhere. I recently bought a Hapfo lathe for less than 10% of the cost new, its in great condition, sold because the shop couldn't find anyone capable of setting it up and running it. I had to fix an old setup error that was plaguing it, once that was resolved and a few parts replaced it runs perfectly. It has an automatic feed so cut times are similar to CNC.

 

[johnre]

There are modern ratchets with better specs than old breaker bars.

I still have and use breaker bars, though.

I don't just use a breaker bar for leverage.

It's also very useful to save your knuckles.