Ducky
Well-known member
Reed & Prince driver. I have not seen that type of screwhead in 30+ years.
Tools/machines that have become obsolete?
- Thread starter MushCreek
- Start date
That's a far cry from caling it obsolete. Plus, does fcaw penetrate better than stick welding? Probably not. Can you get the same variety of special electrodes and swap them as easily as with stick welding? Certainly much harder to find and takes way more time with a wire feed machine.
TailGunner3000
Well-known member
I would like to interject that many in this thread are confusing "obsolete" with "useful." I would posit that an obsolete tool or machine has become so because either something better has replaced it, or the use for it has disappeared. For example, tools designed to service typewriters are obviously obsolete.
I'm an old guy with a shop full of old machines. Many of them were obsolete before I was born. But they still have great utility to me. So I recognize that using a tool or machine has two main components: utility and efficiency. What I do would never fly in a commercial production environment because of it's inefficiency. And likewise, I would never want a CNC machine because of the way I work.
In short, obsolescence doesn't always mean a lack of usefulness. I find it interesting that nobody mentioned the carpenters hammer or screwdriver as examples of obsolete tools...
I'm an old guy with a shop full of old machines. Many of them were obsolete before I was born. But they still have great utility to me. So I recognize that using a tool or machine has two main components: utility and efficiency. What I do would never fly in a commercial production environment because of it's inefficiency. And likewise, I would never want a CNC machine because of the way I work.
In short, obsolescence doesn't always mean a lack of usefulness. I find it interesting that nobody mentioned the carpenters hammer or screwdriver as examples of obsolete tools...
speed bump
Well-known member
Penetration is pretty moot. I don't know if you are going to get xx10x11 digging but you can get xx18 penetration no problem and probably better if you have an advanced enough machine.
Electrodes, the only thing I've come across that would be cool is a FCAW stainless wire which I'm guessing is a process limitation. You can still do that with hard or dual shield. As far as changing, for small repairs stick is still king. If you need to put down lots of weld (which was your original claim that stick is still used for) a couple of arc starts later and the wire and gas change is break even.
Even looking at stuff like pipelining that is quickly becoming the domain of orbital welders.
Stick definitely isn't obsolete it's just a lot more niche than it was 30 years ago.
isb cornbinder
Well-known member
My friend's Mom gave this hand-crank ******** to me. This included a graphic description. She said the tool was meant to massage and get blood flowing. The wheel on the end can be adjusted off center to increase the intensity of the vibe. I asked for a demonstration, she refused, suggesting, "You might go blind."
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whateg01
Well-known member
The Amish might still use those
isb cornbinder
Well-known member
At maximum offset of the wheel this tool could drive nails. So, as you suggest, it might replace power tools.
Speaking of cordless tools, my mischievous daughter put a Whoopie Cushion under a blanket on the couch where my ancient aunt liked to sit. She was in her 90s when she fell victim to the prank. She was so surprised, she nearly coughed her false teeth onto her lap. Aunty was stuck for the "right words". So, we let the moment "pass" into history. My Grandfather, her father, was known far and wide for making "History."
SquirrelsTools
Well-known member
I buy pallets of stuff from time to time because ships have antique tools on display etc and restoration of old tools/fixtures/machines is my hobby. I try to make it pay for itself when I can, but:
•I've been coming across BUCKETS of Dayton Lamina/Progress/Moeller ball lock and shoulder punches and blanks. Receivers too. Some Brand new. So I'm assuming they are becoming obsolete?
•Same with the swiss die files.
•Just basically gave away a medium sized box of brand new gesswien stones.
• Have a box of rotary burrs the size of a shoebox. Diamond, Carbide, Boron bonded, stone etc
•Cant get rid of deep hole bits, or their sharpening fixture for anything close to what they're worth.
•Socket cap bolt/screws in general, of every size. They're everywhere here. From 8.8-Titanium. I could start a hardware store. Been cataloging and trying to get to a point where I can dump a bunch on to eBay with some other stuff.
•Bought a lot of Pneumatic miniature CNC components thinking I was getting a deal because I needed a bench anvil and there was one in the lot. Nah.
•Literally had to scrap 500lbs of tool holders/chucks/spindles/heads because I couldn't give them away locally, and they would be too costly to ship.
•I've been coming across BUCKETS of Dayton Lamina/Progress/Moeller ball lock and shoulder punches and blanks. Receivers too. Some Brand new. So I'm assuming they are becoming obsolete?
•Same with the swiss die files.
•Just basically gave away a medium sized box of brand new gesswien stones.
• Have a box of rotary burrs the size of a shoebox. Diamond, Carbide, Boron bonded, stone etc
•Cant get rid of deep hole bits, or their sharpening fixture for anything close to what they're worth.
•Socket cap bolt/screws in general, of every size. They're everywhere here. From 8.8-Titanium. I could start a hardware store. Been cataloging and trying to get to a point where I can dump a bunch on to eBay with some other stuff.
•Bought a lot of Pneumatic miniature CNC components thinking I was getting a deal because I needed a bench anvil and there was one in the lot. Nah.
•Literally had to scrap 500lbs of tool holders/chucks/spindles/heads because I couldn't give them away locally, and they would be too costly to ship.
SquirrelsTools
Well-known member
*Shops* Not ships haha
Old Man Roger
Well-known member
It hurts my soul to think of you throwing that stuff away.
It's a dying art. Changing a distributor timing curve, tuning a carburetor? What's hourly labor rate worth now? There are sub $1000 aftermarket EFI setups that are ridiculously simple to install / setup and fine tune.
SquirrelsTools
Well-known member
Not all of it, just the biggest stuff really. I just don't have storage right now for it unfortunately.
My divorce resulted in me combining my possessions with my also divorcing girlfriend. And then moving her from an 80 acre farm. It's a near three car garage situation and a large shed, but space has to be made.
The house itself needed work (one man rewire wasn't fun) so there's quite a bit from that too.
I don't tolerate "mess" well haha. Disorder is fine, but clutter I'm not using is not great.
That said, if you want something specific, I can look out for it.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
What a lot of GJ doesn't understand, is the subject vehicles for such devices don't exist in large numbers and are not used regularly. The last distributor vehicle I can think of is the nissan Xterra with the VG? timing belt motor. You're not tuning the curve on that, it's also the cam sensor. It has to function as designed, unless you're running a standalone EFI system. These were gone by 2003ish.
People born AFTER 9/11/2001 can vote, be drafted into military service, and purchase alcohol.
The last generation of purely mechanical distributors is the late 80s? And that's still an EFI system for most vehicles. The typical GJ response to this is the existence of some super base model carb'd truck in the late 80s. But no one is messing with the ignition curve on that either. The vehicles in question which need such service are not common, and often worked on by enthusiasts which further eliminates the need for shops to specialize in such arts. You're looking at the % of vehicles, which are old enough to use a system, have an owner willing to pay for such services BUT is not enough of an enthusiast to work on the vehicle themselves. These people **** *** to work with BTW.
It's..... obsolete.
Old Man Roger
Well-known member
Thanks, but talk about shipping costs..lol Michigan to Florida.
engineer2
Well-known member
The concours restoration crowd still keeps their carburetors and points distributors. The number of these types of cars is dwindling as many owners cave in to the restomod trend. I agree working on these is a dying art, but they can be made reliable, and most restored cars are only driven a couple of thousand miles a year. When some friends found out I had a working distributor tester they asked me to set up their distributor. I said no, not unless the car is here and I can set up the carb too.
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By the way, a large portion of vehicles sold globaly TODAY have carburetors. They're obsolete in first world countries for sure, but there are so many "super cubs" and their clones and little vertical engined bikes (Honda Livo, for example), that continue to use carburetors for their simplicity...
While FI is quite nice, it ends up requiring way more wiring, a computer (ECU)... It is offset with multiple cylinders, but a single carburetor can often be lighter and can be 80-90% as efficient, especially on small engines which often just run at wide open throttle (very stable conditions).
And then also most of the "fixed" engines (power generators...), garden petrol powered machinery, chainsaws... All still use carbs. For a single cylinder, they often make the most sense to use.
While FI is quite nice, it ends up requiring way more wiring, a computer (ECU)... It is offset with multiple cylinders, but a single carburetor can often be lighter and can be 80-90% as efficient, especially on small engines which often just run at wide open throttle (very stable conditions).
And then also most of the "fixed" engines (power generators...), garden petrol powered machinery, chainsaws... All still use carbs. For a single cylinder, they often make the most sense to use.
rsparks64
Well-known member
Slide Rule
cvairwerks
Well-known member
LOL...I used to work with some guys that could whip out answers via their slip sticks faster than you could key in the data on a calculator......
jives
Well-known member
I've had a number of "Yankee" spiral screwdrivers, and currently have the long handled one in the bottom pic. Haven't used it in decades.
neophyte
Well-known member
These are still sold to the aviation industry, or were up until recently, and Apex still manufactures bits for them.I've had a number of "Yankee" spiral screwdrivers, and currently have the long handled one in the bottom pic. Haven't used it in decades.
Joe Huld
Well-known member
If you don't, I do. I've got a treadle Seneca Falls like it that was converted to a motor drive. In 15 years, I have yet to locate all the parts to restore it.So I probably don't want to buy this then?
Joe Huld
Well-known member
We built the atomic bomb and got to the moon with slide rules.
Packard V8
Well-known member
When I started in engineering in 1963, slide rules were still the thing and in the 1970s the Hewlett Packard HP-35 and the Texas Instrument SR-10 scientific calculators were more expensive than computers are today.
jack vines
jack vines
isb cornbinder
Well-known member
This tool is obsolete. It was used to activate and set vulcanizing tire patches. Picture 3 shows a box with spikes. We used to pour kerosene or gasoline in there and set it on fire. The cast in points transferred the heat to the main body and activated the patch. This tool is just big enough for Model T and bicycle tubes. I may have some patching materials in the shop.
There was an improvement on this tool when the patch came with an attached flammable chunk. We would the patch on fire to set the patch. The later style needed a big "C" clamp looking thing to hold the patch against the inner tube.
There was an improvement on this tool when the patch came with an attached flammable chunk. We would the patch on fire to set the patch. The later style needed a big "C" clamp looking thing to hold the patch against the inner tube.
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finn
Well-known member
Correct. The home shop is just taking advantage of the availability of inexpensive obsolete machines that aren’t efficient enough to operate for profit In a commercial environment.
finn
Well-known member
The distributor machines still have some value as novelty or collectors items, so there’s a market, albeit a limited one.
That doesn’t negate the fact that they’re obsolete. Your local Toyota dealership isn’t going to buy one.
engineer2
Well-known member
They aren't obsolete for older cars, but it is a limited market, finding a capable user is a challenge, and it's labor intensive ($$$).
Next time I stop by our local resto shop, I'll ask them if they ever use it anymore. You can do the same thing with an adjustable timing light and a MityVac, but the distributor has to be in a running engine.
engineer2
Well-known member
My $300 HP-35 purchased in 1973 would be about the same price as a $2000 laptop today. It still works.
The TI SR-10 was cheaper but the store owner warned me away. Said he had bins of defective ones.
I've had a number of "Yankee" spiral screwdrivers, and currently have the long handled one in the bottom pic. Haven't used it in decades.
But how else are you supposed to open the panel on an elevator in one pump?!?
I feel like the tools for lead & oakum work are a thing of the past for the most part.
micromind
Well-known member
The jointer. With planers being way more available than they were back in the 70s, the jointer became pretty much obsolete.
I still use mine once in a while though. If I just need to smooth up a saw cut and width isn't critical, the jointer is way faster than the planer.
Radial arm saws are becoming obsolete too. Too bad, they could do a lot of stuff and do it well. I still use mine quite often.
Block planes, jack planes or any sort of a hand plane. I haven't used any of mine in years.
Saw sharpening equipment. With nearly all circular saw blades being carbide these days and often less expensive to replace rather than sharpen, I don't use my sharpening stuff much anymore. Occasionally I'll sharpen a handsaw though.
I still use mine once in a while though. If I just need to smooth up a saw cut and width isn't critical, the jointer is way faster than the planer.
Radial arm saws are becoming obsolete too. Too bad, they could do a lot of stuff and do it well. I still use mine quite often.
Block planes, jack planes or any sort of a hand plane. I haven't used any of mine in years.
Saw sharpening equipment. With nearly all circular saw blades being carbide these days and often less expensive to replace rather than sharpen, I don't use my sharpening stuff much anymore. Occasionally I'll sharpen a handsaw though.
Firebrick43
Well-known member
You cant make two faces perpendicular to each other with a planer, only a jointer
If you don't joint one face first the planer will just make wavy boards.
The jointer may be of little use if you buy S3S or S4S lumber, but if you buy it rough cut you need a jointer of some sort.
rsparks64
Well-known member
I learned to use the slide rule in high school when taking calculus. They even had contests to test your speed with one. In college, as a science major I hated using it because I had to use it all the time and missed a few points on tests for not getting my decimal point right. Some of my chemistry classes left little time to double check your work so things like incorrect decimal places happened occasionally. In late 72 I begged my parents for a TI calculator for Christmas. They got me one. They were about $125.00 and could do reciprocals, some trig, percentages, and of course multiplication, division, etc.. I loved that thing. Within a few years equivalent calculators were almost as small as credit cards, could do many more functions, and were very cheap.
Old Man Roger
Well-known member
I have an 1899 Rockford lathe that was upgraded to electric motor in 1914. It was originally powered by a water wheel in a factory in New Hampshire. The motor still works, but I took it off so not to wear it out. I use an old 1990’s motor for it now.
johnre
Well-known member
Smaller 10" or 12" radial arm saws - they're pretty much a giveaway on Craigslist because they've been replaced by sliding compound mitre-bevel saws, which are much better on accuracy and stability. They're also more efficient with floor space.
But hardwood dealers will still always have a big commercial one around for cutting 12/4 and 16/4 stock, though. At my local dealer, there's a 14" OMGA saw that's just a monster.
But hardwood dealers will still always have a big commercial one around for cutting 12/4 and 16/4 stock, though. At my local dealer, there's a 14" OMGA saw that's just a monster.
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neophyte
Well-known member
Jointers are used for flattening a board.
The planer is used for making the other side of that board parallel to the face that was flattened on the jointer.
Jointers can be used for other trimming tasks, and some of those tasks can now be done as easily, or more easily with other equipment, but actually flattening lumber, require very large equipment that is way to expensive gor all but very large expensive woodworking and cabinetry shops (which most woodworkers don’t work in), or large cumbersome jogs, mist of which gave to be home or shop made.
As fir radial arm saws, practically every lumber yard and home center like Home Depot has one for cutting down lumber and sheet goods, and Home Depot usually buys theirs new.
Saw sharpening equipment is still used, but nowadays, professional woodworkers usually send decent, high cost blades to a place that has a CNC sharpening equipment, that can measure and sharpen blades yo near original specs.
My 10" DeWalt GW and my 12" DeWalt GA are more accurate and stable than any SCMS I've ever seen. It's not even close.
Not to mention that the old DeWalts are capable of many operations (like dadoing) that a SCMS struggles with.
But you're right about the floor space.
Nutria
Well-known member
Micromind, you're just around the corner, kinda, from me. Good to see someone else from the eastside/Great Basin.
I use a lot of hand planes still, particularly block planes-- hard to beat for some quick touch up.
I agree with the comments re a planer not being a replacement for a jointer, as they serve different functions. It is possible to do some jointer-adjacent things on a planer though: https://www.jpthien.com/ps.htm. Pretty neat, and I do this when I need to joint a face wider than my 6" jointer can handle.
micromind
Well-known member
Yeah, not too far away at all.....
I don't think any older tool is useless but some of them have been replaced by more modern versions.
My Dad built custom cabinets for many years, I remember his shop having a table saw, a shaper, a radial arm saw, a jointer and a pretty good-sized horizontal belt sander. In the early 70s, he got a planer. The jointer didn't get much use after that. But the rest of the tools were used pretty much the same as always.
Jim greengo
Well-known member
Good luck welding in rain/mud/snow with a mig welder,or some rusty old piece of scrap in a field.
nadogail
Well-known member
Brake Shoe Rivet Presses.