Upgrading screw drivers

[hoffman912]

Hi guys,

I have been using craftsman screw drivers for a while and finally want to upgrade.

I want something that will hold up well, work well, and fit comfortably in my hand with an ergonomic grip.

Being a german car guy, a friend whos a pro porsche wrench suggested that American screwdrivers are a different standard then European as they use ANSI spec vs whatever europe uses, and that i would be better served by getting a european made screw driver since i mostly work on german cars.

I am leaning toward the Hazet 810/6 Set 6 Piece

or 810/21

or Hazet 163-100/13 Screwdriver set.

Has anyone used either and do you have a preference? I like the 6 piece set (and price), but have FOMO of not having the extra screw drivers.

Or is this all stupid and should i get an ergonomic kobalt set for $20? note i dont need the precision screw drivers that come with it..

 

[mkat1951]

I really like my new Wera screwdrivers.


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

 

[d.mcfarland]

The German made brands are going to be better quality than the Cobalt, trust me.

I'd say use the adage: buy once or cry once.

 

[Dumber than lumber]

Japanese Vessel brand is pretty good stuff.
Not outrageously priced IMO.

 

[Don1357]

That looks so weird! I mean they are all of the same brands and style; on my wall is screwdrivers probably no more than 3 are the same

 

[Hack Fabrication]

The only decent/expensive screwdrivers I have are from Brownells. I have their master set. I also have a couple of Grace gunsmith models. And they only see use on my guns.

The rest of them are Craftsman, Husky, and Kobalt, because they get abused too often. I also find myself using multi-bit sets, in combination with a ratcheting handle, for a lot of things.

 

[designer485]

Look at Wera, Wiha or Felo for comfort grips and for hard handles, I would get a Williams set.

 

[rlitman]

The only decent/expensive screwdrivers I have are from Brownells. I have their master set. I also have a couple of Grace gunsmith models. And they only see use on my guns.

The rest of them are Craftsman, Husky, and Kobalt, because they get abused too often. I also find myself using multi-bit sets, in combination with a ratcheting handle, for a lot of things.

I have two Brownells sets. One uses Zephyr bits, while the other uses Apex bits (one is a complete master set, but I forget which is which). They are an absolute godsend when working with old slotted screws (not just on guns, but on old Singer sewing machines for example too). BUT they are also worthless when working on modern stuff.

The OP's friend is absolutely right. If you're working on German cars, stick with drivers designed around their fasteners. That would be DIN standard stuff. That would include the good European brands (Hazet, sure, but also Wera, Wiha, PB Swiss, Stahlwille, etc.), but also many good Asian brands as well (Vessel comes to mind).

What I would avoid is the stuff designed specifically for the American market (any hardware store brands, Kobalt included), because it is spec'd around American fasteners.

 

[pizza]

which drive types do you want? PH and slotted?

which features do you want? 'heavy duty' (often includes full tang through handle, striking cap, hex bolster for using a wrench on it)? anti-camout? high voltage insulated?

for slotted, imo go pbswiss.

their parallel tips (like hollow ground) sink deeper into the slotted recess and make more contact.

Here's a comparison photo of PB Swiss, Klein and Wiha driving a common countersunk screw. The PB Swiss 6.5 mm fills the slot perfectly. The Klein 1/4" also is an excellent fit but the corners do stick out because of the shape of the countersunk screw. The Wiha 5.5 just wedges in at the very tip and doesn't fill the slot. The Wiha 6.5 (not shown) doesn't fit at all. All these screwdrivers are good screwdrivers but they don't all fit the same. Standard screw sizes have a range so having lots of choices is a good thing.

you can get them in either multicraft (acetate) or swissgrip (santoprene) handles. swissgrip feels awesome but is more annoying to clean.

https://www.shop.pbtools.us/Multicraft-Screwdriver-Set-for-Slotted-screws-1-6-6240.htm
https://www.shop.pbtools.us/SwissGrip-Screwdriver-Set-for-Slotted-screws-1-6-8240.htm
https://www.shop.pbtools.us/Rainbow-SwissGrip-Screwdriver-Set-for-Slotted-screws-1-6-8240RB.htm

multicraft:

swissgrip:

i have the rainbow colored set of slotted drivers, but if you're thinking of getting more drivers by pbswiss, maybe get the regular color because then the drive types are color coded.

they also make heavy duty if you like beating on ****:

--------------------------------------------------


for phillips, go with something that uses the DIN ISO 8764-1 spec. https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=395037

this includes many euro brands including pbswiss. if you grab some of those slotted drivers and like them, then maybe just pick up some pbswiss PH drivers too.

also take a look at vessel megadora.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=467238

https://www.vessel.co.jp/english/product/screwdriver/list/18

check out 900 (regular) and 930 (heavy duty) series. both have jawsfit (anti camout):

here's the 930:

 

[2ndGearRubber]

The German made brands are going to be better quality than the Cobalt, trust me.

I'd say use the adage: buy once or cry once.

Japanese Vessel brand is pretty good stuff.
Not outrageously priced IMO.

Agreed, buy once cry once. If you like Hazet, pick some up.


Vessel is pretty cheap, and top notch drivers. I've just picked up a few of the main sizes I use from them and consider that my set. Yeah, I got the napa rebranded whia drivers downstairs in the toolbox. But the vast majority of the time my ball grip #2/flathead flipable driver is all I need.

 

[TuxThePenguin]

I've never used Hazet screwdrivers but I hve 100% confidence they'd be noticeably better than Kobalt and similar brands. I have used other German screwdrivers and other quality screwdrivers in general like Wiha, Wera, Witte, PB Swiss (Swiss obviously), Vessel (previously mentioned by other people - Japanese) and all of these brands are great and I'm sure Hazet would be another great one. I have a small number of their tools and have been happy with those.

Hazet seems to be one of the more expensive German brands.

My favorite of the German screwdrivers is the Wiha Microfinish line with the purple and black handles because they fit my hand and the grip on them is great. But as far as actual performance goes, all the good brands are, well, good.

 

[Nineeightyone]

I like my Kobalt set, for general use. I also got my buddy the Porsche Design Hazet screwdrivers as sort of a joke gift (he complains about my german cars, and needed a good set of screwdrivers) and likes them a ton.

I've got a couple Wera, and find them very comfortable, but the pricetag is a bit hard to stomach. Wiha also makes a hell of a screwdriver, I used their precision screwdrivers professionally for half a decade and never once did I have an issue.

 

[Rinspeed]

I've had my eye on a set of the PB Swiss swissgrip for a couple months, maybe I can catch a black Friday deal.

 

[TuxThePenguin]

I've had my eye on a set of the PB Swiss swissgrip for a couple months, maybe I can catch a black Friday deal.

you missed the Count On Tools sale by like a couple weeks. You can probably catch a sale at Tool Lady, though I think their prices are generally a bit higher than Count On.

 

[Dave455]

Slotted screwdrivers, much like wrenches. come in inch and metric sizes. While many folks get away with using the nearest size down, for a good fit you are best off using screwdrivers to fit your screw.

Most U.S. made screwdrivers are sized in inches 3/16, 1/4, 5/16 etc but your BMW will use screws with slots in metric sizes, if it uses slotted screws at all.

In theory, Phillips are Phillips everywhere, and Pozidriv are Pozidriv. In practice, U.S. makers offer relatively few Pozidriv drivers, but your BMW will almost certainly use these everywhere. Sometimes, when I encounter folks having problems with poor fitting drivers, they are using a Phillips driver in a Pozidriv screw. Not so much different standards, but a different recess. Some U.S. made Pozidriv drivers seem to be a very poor fit anyway.

So, for a European vehicle I would probably use European tools for the best fit, and I’d ensure my set came with Pozidriv not Phillips. Both are usually on offer.

Hazet drivers are made in Slovenia by Oplast. They are, for the most part, not bad. However, the first two sets you show are the “budget” line. The first are available very inexpensively in Europe, as I think are the second. The black hard handled drivers are their Trinamic ones and they are quite nice. I have some of these, and they are a more pro grade tool, along with their soft handle Hexanamic range. Either of the latter would be a good choice, but I wouldn’t bother with the cheapo ones.

There are many makers to consider Wiha, Wera, Witte and Bost are pretty much dedicated screwdriver makers. All the other tool manufacturers offer screwdrivers too - Hazet, Stahlwille, Gedore, Elora, Facom, Bahco etc etc. I personally have found no better than the PB Swiss, but the Hazet are good in greasy environments and I quite like Facom too. The Bahco ergo are the old Irazola drivers and are about the best of the soft handles I reckon

 

[American Locomotive]

I absolutely love my Vessel non-slip (Woody) screw drivers. The handles can be absolutely drenched in oil and grease, and they have no problem at all with grip. The Wera screwdrivers we had before were a joke in comparison.

 

[Negen]

The vessel 4500 series , b-330 , b-370 are my favorite.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[hoffman912]

I like my Kobalt set, for general use. I also got my buddy the Porsche Design Hazet screwdrivers as sort of a joke gift (he complains about my german cars, and needed a good set of screwdrivers) and likes them a ton.

I've got a couple Wera, and find them very comfortable, but the pricetag is a bit hard to stomach. Wiha also makes a hell of a screwdriver, I used their precision screwdrivers professionally for half a decade and never once did I have an issue.

The Hazet ones i am looking at are the same as the porsche motorsports ones, just not with porsche logo or colors. I was leaning toward getting those specific ones but they are sold out.

This is the same model and set, just in blue and black - which is why i started with this one first.

[img[https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81LR7CN2SvL._AC_SL1500_.jpg[/img]



I am not a fan of wera handles. I was looking at Wiha, but i also read that the soft handles are horrible with grease/oil etc that i would find in the garage.

 

[TuxThePenguin]

I am not a fan of wera handles. I was looking at Wiha, but i also read that the soft handles are horrible with grease/oil etc that i would find in the garage.

While all the Wera ones I've used are soft-handled, Wiha has a pretty good range of handles and the Microfinish purple ones (also happen to be their most expensive ones) I find to be some of the best with grease. Their blue and grey economic screwdrivers are a little softer, closer to Wera and Felo, though probably still a little firmer than either of those. But most of the Wihas are fairly firm. The red ones and purple ones are firmer than the economic ones.

I have a couple of the Wiha economics and honestly they aren't that bad with grease and oil, but the Microfinish are definitely better.

Microfinish is gritty like sandpaper, though it doesn't tear up my skin like actual sandpaper would. It's like the most mild sandpaper ever.

 

[hoffman912]

Look at Wera, Wiha or Felo for comfort grips and for hard handles, I would get a Williams set.

Thanks. The sister to the snappy hard handled ones? I was looking at these too, but didnt like the handles as much as the hazet

 

[mr.lemons]

Wiha Microfinish are pretty awesome when you have oily hands. It's a hard plastic with a gritty texture that just grips. Not the most premium looking or feeling, but very functional.

Edit. Sorry, TuxThePenguin replied while I was typing.

 

[mowkep]

Wiha just came out wooden handles. Look pretty good

 

[TuxThePenguin]

Edit. Sorry, TuxThePenguin replied while I was typing.

Nothing wrong with an opinion being shared by multiple people

 

[sberry]

Since this is an opinion thread,,, none of those. I aint buying another screwdriver from anywhere but Harbor Freight. Not worth all the hassle. Not worth the cost difference. Buy a set and then a handfull of each in the size you use a lot. I paid 8 a piece for Klein 25 yrs ago, they are fine but like these as good or better and they cost 1.50 today.
After you use them you will feel like you stole them with the extra 100 in your pocket.

 

[rlitman]

Since this is an opinion thread,,, none of those. I aint buying another screwdriver from anywhere but Harbor Freight. Not worth all the hassle. Not worth the cost difference. Buy a set and then a handfull of each in the size you use a lot. I paid 8 a piece for Klein 25 yrs ago, they are fine but like these as good or better and they cost 1.50 today.
After you use them you will feel like you stole them with the extra 100 in your pocket.

Maybe HF makes good drivers. I dunno. The ones I've used were pretty lousy, with the black tips being some sort of soft coating over a thick (and awfully soft) copper plating, over steel that I think was made from pressed potato. That includes the freebies, as well as the cheapest sets. I haven't tried their "better stuff.

To be fair, those drivers get regularly used at work, and do work much of the time, but then again, I do also sometimes find myself drilling out fasteners that people have munged with them.

 

[Ton ton]

Kobalt screwdrivers are nasty.

 

[hoffman912]

which drive types do you want? PH and slotted?

which features do you want? 'heavy duty' (often includes full tang through handle, striking cap, hex bolster for using a wrench on it)? anti-camout? high voltage insulated?

I am looking for both slotted and PH. No real need for Torx.

I don't necessarily need heavy duty - i dont typically hammer on screw drivers or use them as a chisel. In what scenarios would a heavy duty one with a strike cap become important.

A hex bolster for using a wrench on, or a hole in the handle to slide another through for leverage. I rarely need to go there, but again might be nice.

Anti Cam out and other features that would help me not strip or muck up the heads would be nice.

High voltage isnt really necessary, i dont do a lot with electrical, though i might consider getting a set of insulated ones for the house only use.

This set is being bought with garage and car work in mind.

 

[sberry]

I been beating the snot out of these in a farm shop, I got some men, they get used a lot, do not appear to be soft. I didnt look for cheaper, I like the way they are marked and the colors. I bought 15 new, I am going to get 5 more 4 inch slotted.
I bought some bigger ones but really dont use them so much, they are going to hold out but the 5 new straight I got have absconded and got absorbed and going to get 3 more number 2 phillips and 5 more straight and see if I catch up. They are really sharp and the handles super grip.
I bought 8 new utility knives earlier, that was a catch up. I got about half regular and 1/2 quick change and I like that quick. Only 1$ difference. As for having to remove others faulty work,,, thats not the tool really, they would ruin it no matter what they used. These are hard and sharp. I got a couple fistfulls of Klein, had for decades, bought them over 20 years. nothing wrong with them. Nothing wrong with any of those posted in this thread, lots of imports among them and simply paying more for an import makes one feel better go for it. I like these as good or better and I also been at this a while.
Business is contracting same way its all bid on. Everyome wants a bid then contractors want to pay men less,,, so ****,if I can get someone in China to make a driver this good I can buy retail for 1.50 tells me I been paying thru the *** for them the last 40 years.
A guy can feel better about spending up here, dont mean its not real in that sense but he aint gonna be able to do more better work than these do.

 

[tarmy]

Klein for the win...

 

[TuxThePenguin]

Klein screwdrivers are as bad as HF in my opinion. Both made from cheese. The only Klein product I don't just dislike, but think is downright garbage.

This is just my opinion. No offense intended and if you guys like brands I don't, that's fine.

Note that I haven't bought any of HF's "recent" screwdrivers, like Quinn or any of those new brands. I've used Pittsburgh ones. I have some of the green & grey ones somewhere. Edit to note: they aren't the worst screwdrivers I've used, though. The cheapest Stanley ones are worse (but Stanley makes better ones too).

 

[sberry]

Channelock and Vise Grip have really held their ground. They have always been reasonable especially for the standard models, it has shoved off a lot of pressure. But one of the best adjustable wrenches,,, or rather than the best really as good as any is a generic China they rebrand world wide and might even be better in a couple places.
What makes it way better is it cost 1/3 retail even a brand one. Doesnt mean every cheap one is that good but this one is. I spose you can find a junk screwdriver for less if a guy tried but this same thing HF is selling is easily branded with an eye catching warranty and sold from 3$ up to 7 or 8 maybe? Sold under a different label and we would be hearing raves about it especially if it cost 4$ more, it would be great then.

 

[gilbo]

Japanese Vessel brand is pretty good stuff.
Not outrageously priced IMO.

Another vote for Vessel

Especially if you work in imports, JIS screwdriver are a must

 

[richfinn]

The Hazet ones i am looking at are the same as the porsche motorsports ones, just not with porsche logo or colors. I was leaning toward getting those specific ones but they are sold out.

This is the same model and set, just in blue and black - which is why i started with this one first.

[img[https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81LR7CN2SvL._AC_SL1500_.jpg[/img]



I am not a fan of wera handles. I was looking at Wiha, but i also read that the soft handles are horrible with grease/oil etc that i would find in the garage.

Old Porsche and two Subarus??

Your gonna want JIS on those old Scoobys most probably and metric slotted for the old Porsche I guess

Vessel might be a good fit for your garage

I like through tang and striking caps on my mechanic screwdrivers, handy for knocking off dust caps on wheel bearings or driving pozidrive into gunged up screwheads or even shocking loose frozen screws

 

[pizza]

In theory, Phillips are Phillips everywhere, and Pozidriv are Pozidriv. In practice, U.S. makers offer relatively few Pozidriv drivers, but your BMW will almost certainly use these everywhere. Sometimes, when I encounter folks having problems with poor fitting drivers, they are using a Phillips driver in a Pozidriv screw. Not so much different standards, but a different recess. Some U.S. made Pozidriv drivers seem to be a very poor fit anyway.

So, for a European vehicle I would probably use European tools for the best fit, and I’d ensure my set came with Pozidriv not Phillips. Both are usually on offer.

great point. hoffman912, if you happen to have PZ fasteners in your car (no clue if you do), definitely get a set of PZ drivers and use them.

but even if you get PZ drivers, i'd still get a nice set of PH too because PH is so ubiquitous. also in practice, PH is not PH everywhere. get a set made to DIN ISO 8764-1 spec like i was saying in my last post.

The Bahco ergo are the old Irazola drivers and are about the best of the soft handles I reckon

https://www.bahco.com/int_en/ergotm...1-ph4-x-100-200-mm-pb_be-8628---be-8640_.html

this? never seen it before. looks nice.
are the tips good?

the shank reminds me a lot of wiha extra heavy duty.

 

[pizza]

Wiha Microfinish are pretty awesome when you have oily hands. It's a hard plastic with a gritty texture that just grips. Not the most premium looking or feeling, but very functional.

Edit. Sorry, TuxThePenguin replied while I was typing.

hey lemons,

buyer's remorse triggered.

i have a 10pc set of softfinish, and sometimes i regret not trying both that and microfinish before buying.

i pretty much never get my drivers oily, and i've still never seen a microfinish in person.

do you like one vs the other for non-oily use, or are they about the same?

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Thanks. The sister to the snappy hard handled ones? I was looking at these too, but didnt like the handles as much as the hazet

Williams USA hard handles are a great value and very comfy to use.

I got a set for my father who lived his whole life with garbage cheap-o drivers. He laughs when he uses them, referencing his years of suffering with garbage stuff.


A 5 piece set is like $45.

 

[pizza]

I am looking for both slotted and PH. No real need for Torx.

I don't necessarily need heavy duty - i dont typically hammer on screw drivers or use them as a chisel. In what scenarios would a heavy duty one with a strike cap become important.

A hex bolster for using a wrench on, or a hole in the handle to slide another through for leverage. I rarely need to go there, but again might be nice.

Anti Cam out and other features that would help me not strip or muck up the heads would be nice.

High voltage isnt really necessary, i dont do a lot with electrical, though i might consider getting a set of insulated ones for the house only use.

This set is being bought with garage and car work in mind.

from reading your other posts, it sounds like good grip when oily is an important feature to you, and you're using them in dirty environments (garage, cars).

for slotted, i say go for pbswiss in multicraft handle. a big part of that is because i think pbswiss makes the nicest slotted tips (parallel style). i'd start with these and see how you like them. if you're in love with it, consider them in PH too.

then for phillips, if you don't go pbswiss, i'd add wiha microfinish (purple handle, specifically designed for good grip when greasy). i have wiha softfinish (red handle) and like them.

idk how good the vessel megadora handles are with oil. never used them like that. maybe someone else can chime in?

i bet their nonslip wood composite handles would be better though for that: https://www.vessel.co.jp/english/product/screwdriver/list/26

check out B-330 and B-370:

also have a look at their powergrip (4500):

https://www.vessel.co.jp/english/product/screwdriver/detail/123406

 

[brtsvg]

It’s really simple - your best choices are -
* any of the German brands
* PB Swiss
* Vessel

Do yourself a favor and get these brands - you will never again be satisfied with any of the stuff sold in big-box stores.

 

[Dave455]

this? never seen it before. looks nice.
are the tips good?

the shank reminds me a lot of wiha extra heavy duty.

My bad - I meant to say ‘Tekno” not “Ergo”.

These are the drivers I was thinking of.

I don’t normally like soft handles but these are well thought out. They are very easy in the hand and offer a lot of grip. Perhaps not ideal in a greasy environment but fine everywhere else.

Yes, the tips seem to be quite decent. I have a No.2 Pozidriv that sees quite regular use, especially on crappy screws where I don’t want to use my PB, and it’s lasted very well. The Spanish can make decent steel.

 

[iSpark]

My mama told me to keep my mouth shut.
sigh...