Vintage S-K Tools

[Oldtuleguy]

Chrome alloy was the generic version of sk. I have seen a few cad examples so it seems likely they were made into wartime. Not super valuable but certainly collectable. Here is a pic of a cad 7/8 and of a set.

 

[d42jeep]

I haven’t yet run across any Black Oxide finish Chrome Alloy sockets. Not for lack of trying, though!
-Don

 

[r_olson_06]

I would 3rd that assessment. I have about 60ish pieces and no black oxide. I have some CAD and chrome versions though.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Username already in use]

I have seen a few cad examples so it seems likely they were made into wartime.

I'm sure Lugz will be by to remind us, but Cad plating was used long before the war as a value / economy line plating option and does not necessarily mean wartime production.

Nice find. My 4way is a S-K Wayne but I would have preferred S-K Tools. What size is the Chrome Alloy socket?
-Don

Thanks Don. The Socket is 13/16". Do you need it?

 

[d42jeep]

I'm sure Lugz will be by to remind us, but Cad plating was used long before the war as a value / economy line plating option and does not necessarily mean wartime production.



Thanks Don. The Socket is 13/16". Do you need it?

Thanks for the offer. It looks like I have that one. I’m missing the 1” socket.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'm sure Lugz will be by to remind us, but Cad plating was used long before the war as a value / economy line plating option and does not necessarily mean wartime production.

Was this a polite way of saying I am a predictable broken record on that subject?

I haven’t yet run across any Black Oxide finish Chrome Alloy sockets.

I have about 60ish pieces and no black oxide.

"Black Oxide finish Chrome-Alloy" is an oxymoron. As is Black Oxide finish Chrome-Vanadium, Black Oxide finish Chrome-Molybdenum, etc. Black oxide was invented in 1942 in response to chrome-plating restrictions at a time when chromium was also being restricted in the high-chrome steel compositions that dominated the late 1930's into 1941, including Chrome-Alloy. The earliest you will ever see a black oxide finish is on wartime tools made of "New Emergency" triple alloy steel and those won't have high-chrome composition markings.

EDIT: This issue goes back to Unaiu's reminder about cad. The cadmium finish on S-K Chrome-Alloy tools doesn't make them wartime. Those are pre-war economy line tools.

 

[David Jackson]

My one Chrome Alloy socket is in 21/32 and I was basically wondering if such a size would have been made by SK in 1/2" drive and finished in black oxide. If anyone has such a thing I would love to know.
Mine is definitely chrome plated; does that make it prewar or postwar?
And, if this line is a lower cost one, what makes it so?
I don't believe, however, that I have ever encountered a 21/32 hex head fastener in my life. I wonder what that would have been used for?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I thought you were going to read the Stickie? You must've skipped the part on /32nds! (Just bustin' yer chops...)

Most /32nds were for U.S.S. bolts/nuts, which had a slightly larger head than the heads on S.A.E. bolts/nuts of the same exact tap size. Some were unique. 21/32", for example, was used on Model A and B connecting rods and several fasteners on V8-60 engines. Vintage catalogs (go to ToolArchives.com) are a great resource for wrench-to-boltage info.

Your socket is probably 1930's.

As for lower cost, I didn't say Chrome Alloy, as an SK brand, was low cost. I said Chrome Alloy with a cadmium finish was. It was cheaper than chrome-plating.

 

[David Jackson]

OK, well my chops are busted! I have actually attempted to be a Maestro at searching on this site, however my best efforts have brought me little success. When I was successful in a search was when I did exactly what you, Lugz, said to do. On my own, not so good.
And I imagine that you, in your inimitable gentle way, are suggesting I try to search Chrome Alloy to learn more about what made it a lower cost tool.
And, perhaps I can somehow find out if 21/32 would have been part of a black oxide SK set.
Regards,
From Sunny (today anyway) north central California.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Haha. Do NOT under any circumstances search on Chrome Alloy! Williams used it. Other OEMs used it, too. You will be deluged with references to that in many, many threads.

Frankly, I've lost the bead on what you have (other than a prewar 21/32" chrome-plated Chrome-Alloy socket) and what you're trying to accomplish. If you want to know if you need a 21/32" socket with a black oxide finish to complete an SK 1/2-inch drive set you have in which the ratchet and handles and other sockets have a black oxide finish, you'd have to ask Don or someone else. The only SK socket sets I collect are midgets - wartime black oxide, Brazil, and Carb-O-Mang.

I can tell you that it's not at all unusual to find /32nds socket in sets well into the late 40s and early 50's, and, the 1943 SK catalog did include a set that included a 21/32" socket (40121). I see other sets that did not include it, though, so the proof is probably in the empirical pudding (collected examples).

 

[David Jackson]

I am trying to learn whether or not a 21/32nds socket would have been included in my black oxide SK socket set from WWII. I can ask Don, or maybe he is listening; about the presence of this size in a black oxide set. Is it made in 1/2" drive in the 1943 SK catalog?
One other question I have is about Chrome Alloy - is it a brand? I take your point about using those words (Chrome Alloy) to search.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I am trying to learn whether or not a 21/32nds socket would have been included in my black oxide SK socket set from WWII...[ ]...Is it made in 1/2" drive in the 1943 SK catalog?

...the 1943 SK catalog did include a set that included a 21/32" socket (40121). I see other sets that did not include it, though, so the proof is probably in the empirical pudding (collected examples).

One other question I have is about Chrome Alloy - is it a brand? I take your point about using those words (Chrome Alloy) to search.

Not a brand, per se, but it was very typical of OEM's to use steel composition and steel composition markings like a brand in the 1930's, yes. Sometimes, especially for tools they sold to others to re-badge (on a box) these markings are a way to help confirm the identification of the OEM made through physical characteristics.

 

[d42jeep]

Here is the list of sockets and drive tools in this particular set in 1943. If I had a 21/32” socket with a wartime finish, I would add it to the set and not worry about the tool police.
Chrome Alloy was used in private labels for other sellers and sold by S-K as a price line mostly branded as Brazil tools.
-Don

 

[RTM]

21/32 was still offered as an individual socket in 1963 catalog, not sure about 1943 kits tho. Just happened to be wandering looking for my 5818 set’s provenance .

https://archive.org/details/durochrometoolscatalogno37m

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Just say that it fell out of the other set. I know I saw one. Maybe the combo set.

 

[d42jeep]

It’s marked suspended but when has that ever stopped us? I don’t have one in my set, though.
-Don

 

[Outlawmws]

Was this a polite way of saying I am a predictable broken record on that subject?

Not as all! But you could easily have said:.. "My work here may be done"

 

[d42jeep]

I do have all of the oddball sizes in postwar sockets.
-Don

 

[David Jackson]

Well, after reading all that you most honorable and knowledgeable experts have to say about my Chrome Alloy 21/32 1/2" drive, it is still not clear to me who would have been selling that "brand"; unless it was SK. Were other tools besides sockets marked that way? And I still don't know why it would be a lesser quality tool, is the steel not so good, or something such as that?
I also get the idea that a black oxide 1/2" drive SK 21/32 would be pretty unusual, if indeed any exist.

DJ

 

[Private Lugnutz]

It’s marked suspended...

Ahhh. That sent me back to the source. For some reason I never think about the 21/23" as a size that was restricted, only the 31/32". But indeed it was eliminated by WPB L-216. Maybe because I've been spending too much time in Plomb catalogs. They removed it from the Price List in '43, but it's not struck in the catalog. Haha. S-K and also Williams catalogs much better (easier) references for seeing L-216 in action. Both sockets were removed from the WPB restricted list by L-216 amendments, with many other tools, by '45. I'll see if I can find that date.

EDIT:
In summary, you have two small wartime windows, DJ. Late 41 to March 1943 when it was still being made. And then 1945-ish when it was allowed to be made again.

 

[r_olson_06]

I do have all of the oddball sizes in postwar sockets.
-Don

Nice! That 31/32" is very hard to come by. I have only ever seen 2.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[d42jeep]

I spotted this socket on eBay. It’s one of the special thin spark plug sockets mentioned in the catalog. Lugz has some in his recently found set which I’m waiting to see a picture of now that it should be complete.
-Don

 

[Kdaniel8601]

I recently purchased a ¼” drive wartime socket set. The question I have is the box, it is identical to the 4098 box in the 1943 catalog and to one I have. The difference is the finish, it is smooth olive drab, not the textured finish of S-K boxes of the time. Does anybody have any information about this type of socket set box?

 

[d42jeep]

During the war, the military wouldn’t have worried about whether the decal was in place or the finish of the boxes. There was just an all out effort to get the sets turned out. I have some boxes similar to yours with no traces of the decal and a pretty smooth finish. These are incomplete sets missing some pieces.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Lugz has some in his recently found set which I’m waiting to see a picture of now that it should be complete.

Two were specified: B40826 (13/16") and B40828 (7/8"). Thanks to you and Roy, it is indeed complete. Sorry for the wait!

 

[d42jeep]

That’s a good looking set. Thanks for posting it. Glad to help in its completion. Here is a decent wartime 1/4” drive box that came with a few correct cad plated sockets.
-Don

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Some sk made Kline nos sets

 

[d42jeep]

Ahhh. That sent me back to the source. For some reason I never think about the 21/23" as a size that was restricted, only the 31/32". But indeed it was eliminated by WPB L-216. Maybe because I've been spending too much time in Plomb catalogs. They removed it from the Price List in '43, but it's not struck in the catalog. Haha. S-K and also Williams catalogs much better (easier) references for seeing L-216 in action. Both sockets were removed from the WPB restricted list by L-216 amendments, with many other tools, by '45. I'll see if I can find that date.

EDIT:
In summary, you have two small wartime windows, DJ. Late 41 to March 1943 when it was still being made. And then 1945-ish when it was allowed to be made again.

That got me looking through my spares. I found a cad plated 21/32” that is an interesting grind off. You can just barely make out the remaining size markings. I wonder if the grinding was a response to the restrictions? I can’t see any purpose it would have served. Whoever did the grinding probably poisoned himself.
-Don

 

[outofbounds]

Found this box which I believe to be a 4218 Socket set box from the 1950s. Probably overpaid at $10, but I figured I wouldn't trip over another one very soon to hold an 18pcs set (of which I maybe have about 13-14 pcs already. Better looking on the inside versus the exterior, but I'm confident should still clean up to present better than it looks now.

 

[d42jeep]

I’ve picked up a few of those, including a wartime one with the decal rather than the riveted plate. They are a handy size and not too heavy to move around.
-Don

 

[outofbounds]

I’ve picked up a few of those, including a wartime one with the decal rather than the riveted plate. They are a handy size and not too heavy to move around.
-Don

This box I posted is 2" narrower, and actually 2" longer than the boxes you show, d42jeep. Note the fact it has a full hip lid, and the clasps and hasp are mounted frontside.

When I saw it online, I actually envisioned the lift out tray fitting my 40s 3-drawer chest, but alas, it's too long for that.

I had a narrow miss on a mint machinist chest yesterday for the same $10. I'll keep swinging til I find one of those, and a nice carpenter's box.

Working full time, and being first on the site for prime opportunities is proving difficult, as I alluded to in an Xcelite post earlier today.

 

[d42jeep]

This box I posted is 2" narrower, and actually 2" longer than the boxes you show, d42jeep. Note the fact it has a full hip lid, and the clasps and hasp are mounted frontside.

When I saw it online, I actually envisioned the lift out tray fitting my 40s 3-drawer chest, but alas, it's too long for that.

I had a narrow miss on a mint machinist chest yesterday for the same $10. I'll keep swinging til I find one of those, and a nice carpenter's box.

Working full time, and being first on the site for prime opportunities is proving difficult, as I alluded to in an Xcelite post earlier today.

Good point, I missed the slightly different layout. I haven’t run across one of those. Good find and good price.
-Don

 

[Capt. Curt]

I moved a few S-K Wayne and SK tools (some brand new SK combo wrenches) into my vintage SK-Wayne 5 drawer machinist chest I found recently.
I also have a few vintage Proto Challenger punches & chisels and also some vintage chrome plated pliers sets also...Craftsman, Dunlap, Crescent, Diamond, Krueter. I also have one drawer of just Indestro Super hand tools also.

 

[Kdaniel8601]

Does anybody have an idea of when this catalog would have been published?

 

[d42jeep]

My best guess would be 1949 but a range could be between ‘47 to ‘52
-Don

 

[Kdaniel8601]

It came with this service guide, which is dated 1954, could that also be the date of the catalog too?

 

[d42jeep]

It could be. There aren’t many catalogs available between ‘43 and ‘56. If you have it in hand some more photos of pages could prove useful to S-K tool collectors. I would like to see a catalog image and description of this set.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

It came with this service guide, which is dated 1954, could that also be the date of the catalog too?

Probably not. Your catalog still has the wartime logos and the water transfer paper decals on the lids, so it was published before they switched to the metal riveted badge. As far as I know, I don't think we have a documented specific cutover, only that it's 1947 or later. I am assuming Don is guessing 1949 based on the catalog number, which may have the year embedded. I don't pay too much attention to postwar SK other than knowing the metal badges are postwar. If someone has other SK catalogs from that era, say 1950, 1951, etc, and they use that same catalog numbering system, it would back up Don's theory.

 

[d42jeep]

I believe that they continued to use old artwork for quite some time in the postwar catalogs. Virtually every intact set I’ve seen with the water transfer decal has had wartime finish tools. Roy Olson has a lot of S-K knowledge and it would be interesting to know if that has been his experience as well.
-Don

 

[Kdaniel8601]

Here are some more pictures, page 11 has the spark plug socket set.