Vise Info Thread

[TheRealZeus]

Obviously 1864 is older, so your on the right track. I really thought there would be an individual patent for the latch mechanism alone, sited along with the pipe vice’s patent.

 

[four.cycle]

1929 1930

Abernathy
Adams
Austin
Columbian
Luther
Meadville
Prentiss
Richards Wilcox
Stanley
Trimont
Williams

 

[four.cycle]

1930 1932

Columbian
Luther
Parker
Rock Island
Varco
Warren

 

[RTM]

Varco

VARCO Los Angeles Corner Clamp Vise

Does anyone know about a vintage VARCO Los Angeles Corner Clamp Vise? It's stout. Is this similar to the 1970s Wilton V5 woodworkers corner vise. I can't find anything online , and will continue to search . Thanks in advance. Shawn

www.garagejournal.com

Try here

 

[four.cycle]

^ after I posted that I did a bit more digging and found the connection to Abegg & Reinhold Co.

1933

American < which "American" are we dealing with here?
Champion (Geneva IL)
Columbian
Erie
Herriman
Parker
Trimont (pipe vise)

 

[CRSINMICH]

American, American Scale, and American Red Seal all seem to have been produced by the same company. The 1940 Modern Machine Shop article indicates that "American " vises were marketed by American Scale Co of Kansas City Mo. The 1944 ad for "American Vises" has an illustration of a swivel vise as does the 1957 ad in Hardware Age (sort of). Neither of the illustrations shows the same imprint as the 1933 HSB&Co. page. Who knows?

 

[KMScott]

I agree CRS that American Scale and American Red Seal are made in the same house. Their jaws are the same and drilled and tapped in inconsistent locations. I always had to slot the screw holes when I was selling jaws. Never seen a American vise. Any out there. Model 184 or a 194 4" jaws.

 

[four.cycle]

okay! thank you!
there's still several I have not yet been able to figure out....

 

[FMC1959]

Maybe 10 days to 2 weeks ago I saw this mentioned, either on GJ or elsewhere, and I have been following it, just for curiosity of what it will finally go for.

Large No. 109 Reed Mfg. Vise - 200lb | Live and Online Auctions on HiBid.com

hibid.com

The "title" is wrong, a 109 would be in the 300+lb range, and a couple of other things about this auction were odd. Despite the bent handle and a couple of drilled holes on the slide (I don't think it came that way), it looks in pretty good shape.

It's a lot of money, although this is one of the white whales for vise collectors. Possibly the Holy Grail might be a Reed 209. I don't believe I have ever seen a picture of one that someone owns, only brochure pics. The 109 I have seen a few, many here on GJ, but the 209...nope.

When I see a vise like this, bolted outside, I am sure it has gone through a tough life and has some great stories.

Anyway, I thought others would be interested in seeing what this sells for on Wednesday.

 

[KMScott]

FMC
I have worked on both models. Both are heavy. Did major repair work on them both. Normally I don’t work on vises I don’t own but these had to be brought back to life. Brought them to my bridge-less island and then shipped them to Albuquerque. Enjoy the pics.

 

[RTM]

Brought them to my bridge-less island

Geez, did the ferry have to make a special trip for just you and your vises.

 

[FMC1959]

FMC
I have worked on both models. Both are heavy. Did major repair work on them both. Normally I don’t work on vises I don’t own but these had to be brought back to life. Brought them to my bridge-less island and then shipped them to Albuquerque. Enjoy the pics.

Kevin, those are a couple of beauties. 109's I have seen on GJ or elsewhere, but never the 209. If I recall correctly, all the big vises Demoman had and showed, he never had a 209.

 

[CRSINMICH]

Read, Gleason, and Read vises​

On October 24 of 1882 Henry Read was granted two consecutively numbered patents for vises - #266522 and #266523. On December 26 of 1882 an additional two consecutively numbered patents for a vise and a ball swivel attachment were granted to Mr. Read - #269708 and #269709. All four patents were assigned to Read, Gleason, and Read Manufacturers of Brooklyn, NY. Articles announcing their new vise were in many journals in the early part of 1883 but not much after that. Read, Gleason & Read were still listed as "vise manufacturers" in 1890.

​

 

[twagler]

Here's a Rae 105 that I just finished putting back together. There is already one shown in the master spreadsheet, but I noticed that the data for mine is quite a bit different, so thought I would post my values as well.
Rae 105
- Jaw Width 5"
- Opens up to 7-1/2" (versus 6" in the spreadsheet)
- Weighs 70.1 lbs (versus 40 lbs in the spreadsheet)
- Country of Origin = Canada

Here is the vise in its as-found condition from FB Marketplace listing photo:

It was mounted on a workbench in a log cabin type outbuilding located on a homestead farm just south of Ottawa, Canada. The owner didn't know the history, other than it was there when he purchased the property, and that the original farmhouse dated back to the 1860s.

Here are some pictures after a bath in the electrolysis tank. It wasn't actually too rusty, but I find that electrolysis is a good way to remove paint as well as accumulated grease & grime.








I believe that this particular Rae vise dates back to almost the beginning of the company's history in the early 1900s. I found the number "16" stamped (upside down) into the back of the slide, which I believe is likely a date stamp designating that is was manufactured in 1916. The casting is also a bit crude/rough and the model # stamp 105 appears have been a nameplate that was screwed in place on the casting mould rather than being a permanent part of the mould.

 

[KMScott]

Here's a Rae 105 that I just finished putting back together. There is already one shown in the master spreadsheet, but I noticed that the data for mine is quite a bit different, so thought I would post my values as well.
Rae 105
- Jaw Width 5"
- Opens up to 7-1/2" (versus 6" in the spreadsheet)
- Weighs 70.1 lbs (versus 40 lbs in the spreadsheet)
- Country of Origin = Canada

Here is the vise in its as-found condition from FB Marketplace listing photo:

I wonder if this might have a model number 71 instead Of 105. I‘d be happy to add another 105 listing or a number 71. What do you think twagler. Kevin

 

[Outlawmws]

Dr. Scott, I'm noting it has both 70 & 71 on the two main castings, then the "105" as a plate? I'm thinking 70/71 are casting mold IDs?

 

[TheRealZeus]

I was wondering it if weight, but 71/72? As in 71, or 72-ish? Idk.

 

[Outlawmws]

Comparison between my unmarked vise and the Simplex Utility vise Lugz spotted today and left behind - both 3-1/2":


Mine:

The real tell-tail is the quick release locking lever:

 

[KMScott]

Some Prentiss models has the Static and Dynamic marked like the RAE is what I was thinking. Thanks for the catalog page Zeus. I’ll revise the spreadsheet.

 

[micahd1997]

Here's a Rae 105 that I just finished putting back together. There is already one shown in the master spreadsheet, but I noticed that the data for mine is quite a bit different, so thought I would post my values as well.
Rae 105
- Jaw Width 5"
- Opens up to 7-1/2" (versus 6" in the spreadsheet)
- Weighs 70.1 lbs (versus 40 lbs in the spreadsheet)
- Country of Origin = Canada

Here is the vise in its as-found condition from FB Marketplace listing photo:

It was mounted on a workbench in a log cabin type outbuilding located on a homestead farm just south of Ottawa, Canada. The owner didn't know the history, other than it was there when he purchased the property, and that the original farmhouse dated back to the 1860s.

Here are some pictures after a bath in the electrolysis tank. It wasn't actually too rusty, but I find that electrolysis is a good way to remove paint as well as accumulated grease & grime.








I believe that this particular Rae vise dates back to almost the beginning of the company's history in the early 1900s. I found the number "16" stamped (upside down) into the back of the slide, which I believe is likely a date stamp designating that is was manufactured in 1916. The casting is also a bit crude/rough and the model # stamp 105 appears have been a nameplate that was screwed in place on the casting mould rather than being a permanent part of the mould.

Absolutely beautiful vise, twagler!

 

[twagler]

I wonder if this might have a model number 71 instead Of 105. I‘d be happy to add another 105 listing or a number 71. What do you think twagler. Kevin

It looks like you guys have figured it out without me that 105 is indeed the model number and that the digits (70 & 71) cast into the other side of the vise are casting mould ID marks. I have a few other old Rae vises with similar markings; a Model 104-1/2 that is marked with 64 and 65 on the dynamic and stationary respectively, this Model 105 which is marked 70/71, and a Model 203 marked 40/45. Interestingly I also have another vise that is almost a twin to this Rae Model 105. It is a "National" Model 205 made by the National Tool & Machinery Co. in Hamilton, Canada that is marked 70/76 (shown above at this posting. There is some speculation that either Rae made rebranded vises for National or vise versa, and that is supported by the fact that they use similar cast mould ID numbers. These vises also look suspiciously like Reed vises from that era, so it sure seems like there was a lot of re-branding or stealing of casting moulds going on back-in-the-day.

Absolutely beautiful vise, twagler!

Thanks! I really like these American-styled bench vises made by Rae, compared to their other more commonly seen line which is more in the low-profile squat English style made by Record, Paramo, etc. I also tried something new for this Rae 105 for finishing the bare metal. Usually I go for the BLO (Boiled Linseed Oil) finish darkened with some graphite powder, but this time I first sprayed/wiped some Fluid Film Black to fill the pores and provide rust protection, followed by wiping on some wax-based black stove polish for a darker colour and to seal in the non-drying lanolin-based Fluid Film with a top coat finish becomes more of a dry finish. I'm not 100% happy with the way it turned out - it's a bit flat and dull looking to my eye. But is sure is quick and easy! I'd like to try the Sculpt Nouveau patina metal finish that others here use, but there are no Canadian distributers so it's difficult/expensive to get here.

Thanks, Tom

 

[twagler]

Record Model 35P
- Jaw Width 5-1/4
- Opens up to 6-3/4"
- Weighs 43.2 lbs
- Country of Origin = England

We're still in the depths of winter here, so I've been spending time working indoors putting together some vises again. Here's the latest one, a made-in-England Record 35P. The "P" stands for Plain thread, versus the Model 35 which is the quick-release version.




This model is made of cast steel instead of cast iron, which is the reason it is so light-weight (only 43 lbs) compared the cast iron vises in this same size range. Apparently manufacturing with cast steel is quite difficult compared to cast iron and is more expensive, so you don't see too many of this model. I'm not sure of the age of this particular vise. I purchased it at auction from a local Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep dealership located in Ottawa which was established in early 1960's and closed down last year (real estate in its central city location was too valuable to keep a sprawling car lot open there). I'm guessing that it is probable from the 60's although I think this model first shows up in a 1935 Record catalog.


Since this vise is based on a quick-release version, it uses some of the same odd construction features . The main nut floats between two supports and is located very far-forward compared to standard vises. This is actually a really good design feature which avoids the uneven twisting force of the thread passing through the nut which is imposed in a standard vise with dovetail-mounted nut.


Here's a close-up of the nut and supports. The downward extension on the nut prevents it from spinning (on the quick-release version, it would be a half-nut instead, with a mechanism to either hold it tight to the thread, or to allow it to drop from engaging such that dynamic can be rapidly moved in or out).


The picture above shows how hollowed out these cast steel vises are. All thicknesses everywhere in the body are no more than about 1/4", incuding the base being just a shell versus a standard vise, and even the jaws are just a shell structure all the way up inside. Apparently that is a requirement of cast steel, I think due to shrinkage/cracking after pouring in the mould if it is too thick anywhere.



Here's a picture showing winter is refusing to give up here. Snow is still about 18" deep throughout the woods. Low last night was -21 degC (-6F) and high today is only -15 degC (+5F). Also just showing off my other Record vise in the foreground. It's a Model No. 6 (with 6" wide jaws. It's my outdoor vise, living clamped to that bench year-round. It's a good vise, but I have to admit to preferring the look of the Model 35 better.

Thanks for looking, Tom

 

[KMScott]

Barrett Machine Tool Co 308-1/2. Heavy Chipping Vise. 8-1/2” jaws that opens to 12” and weights 275 lbs.

 

[micahd1997]

Barrett Machine Tool Co 308-1/2

Thanks for sharing the pics here, Kevin! It amazes me how identical not only identical the Prentiss/Barrett 8.5"s are, but even the advertisements between the two separate catalogs are virtually identical. I'd love to see verified proof of whether Prentiss actually made these vises for Barrett or whether Barrett simply copied Prentiss' design (which, it seems, they wouldn't have had any legal barriers from doing)

 

[KMScott]

Micah I need to ask Jesus if these jaws are cast in place on this Barrett. If so then these 8-1/2 vises use bolt on, T style and cast in jaws. I wish I could see how they cast the jaws in place in their molds.

 

[CRSINMICH]

KMS: This receipt from 1912 shows Barrett selling #3 replacement jaws to a hardware company so at least some of Barrett's vises had them. They cost a pretty penny though, well, 75 of them actually.

 

[micahd1997]

KMS: This receipt from 1912 shows Barrett selling #3 replacement jaws to a hardware company so at least some of Barrett's vises had them. They cost a pretty penny though, well, 75 of them actually.

That’s a beautiful letterhead, @CRSINMICH! Thanks for sharing. 1912 was just shortly after Prentiss started using replaceable jaws on its vises too

 

[KMScott]

I wonder if that is 75 cents for a set of jaws. Anyway need to find a #3 Barrett vise for the spreadsheet. Several Barrett vises have replaceable jaws. Awesome invoice CRS.

 

[Beerhippie]

Record Model 35P
- Jaw Width 5-1/4
- Opens up to 6-3/4"
- Weighs 43.2 lbs
- Country of Origin = England

We're still in the depths of winter here, so I've been spending time working indoors putting together some vises again. Here's the latest one, a made-in-England Record 35P. The "P" stands for Plain thread, versus the Model 35 which is the quick-release version.




This model is made of cast steel instead of cast iron, which is the reason it is so light-weight (only 43 lbs) compared the cast iron vises in this same size range. Apparently manufacturing with cast steel is quite difficult compared to cast iron and is more expensive, so you don't see too many of this model. I'm not sure of the age of this particular vise. I purchased it at auction from a local Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep dealership located in Ottawa which was established in early 1960's and closed down last year (real estate in its central city location was too valuable to keep a sprawling car lot open there). I'm guessing that it is probable from the 60's although I think this model first shows up in a 1935 Record catalog.


Since this vise is based on a quick-release version, it uses some of the same odd construction features . The main nut floats between two supports and is located very far-forward compared to standard vises. This is actually a really good design feature which avoids the uneven twisting force of the thread passing through the nut which is imposed in a standard vise with dovetail-mounted nut.


Here's a close-up of the nut and supports. The downward extension on the nut prevents it from spinning (on the quick-release version, it would be a half-nut instead, with a mechanism to either hold it tight to the thread, or to allow it to drop from engaging such that dynamic can be rapidly moved in or out).


The picture above shows how hollowed out these cast steel vises are. All thicknesses everywhere in the body are no more than about 1/4", incuding the base being just a shell versus a standard vise, and even the jaws are just a shell structure all the way up inside. Apparently that is a requirement of cast steel, I think due to shrinkage/cracking after pouring in the mould if it is too thick anywhere.



Here's a picture showing winter is refusing to give up here. Snow is still about 18" deep throughout the woods. Low last night was -21 degC (-6F) and high today is only -15 degC (+5F). Also just showing off my other Record vise in the foreground. It's a Model No. 6 (with 6" wide jaws. It's my outdoor vise, living clamped to that bench year-round. It's a good vise, but I have to admit to preferring the look of the Model 35 better.

Thanks for looking, Tom

That 5 1/2" Record is a beaut. I'm in love!

 

[KMScott]

Snediker Quick Adjusting Vise. 4-1/2” jaws that opens to 6” and weights 59 lbs.

Thanks JKB and Tom L.

 

[PghJKB]

Mr Scott
I have seven patents granted to William E Snediker of several cities in New Jersey from 1877 through 1902. Your example looks like Patent #188688 of 20 March 1877.

JKB

 

[CRSINMICH]

Ditto

 

[twagler]

I have a sneaking suspicion that the National 104-1/2 vise pictured above was made by Rae. Here's a side-by-side comparison with a Rae 104-1/2 vise that I purchased a while back ( Post #87,154). The tell-tales include: (a) identical shape/size/styling, (b) both have the same "cast-in" jaw plates, rather than replaceable jaw plates, and (c) both have the same casting pattern ID number, 65, imprinted on the side of the stationary in exactly the same location.

And yes, they both look exactly like a Reed 104-1/2 which also had the "cast-in" jaw plates, rather than replaceable jaw plates held in with screws.
-Tom

Just to close off this discussion about the similarity between vises made by the National Machinery & Supply Co. and the Rae Machine & Tool Works, both of Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, I finally got around to cleaning off and reassembling the Rae 104-1/2 which was pictured above in this post from two years ago. In addition to the casting marks being the same, I think I have spotted some "ghost letters" just below the RAE cast-in letters, which unless my eyes are deceiving me, are an N and an A (first two letters of NATIONAL). So, I think definitely made by the same company, just switching around nameplates, which I think has been pretty common practice over the years for many vise manufacturers.

Below are the pictures of what the RAE looks like now, including some shots of the "ghost letters".






Forum member skmbobon has done a lot of research in this rather specialized field of early Canadian vise manufacturers and has posted a lot of information about both Rae and National, both located in Hamilton,Ontario, Canada and both first starting to make vises somewhere in about the 1910 timeframe. National Machinery & Supply Co. was quite a short-lived company that operated only from about 1911 to 1921, and Rae vises were made first starting in 1914 with the original company in Hamilton and final production sometime around 1980 after changing ownership and being relocated to Orillia, Ontario.

One key bit of information that skmbobon discovered was from a Jan. 1922 edition of the Canadian trade newsletter “Hardware and Accessories” which mentioned that “the Rae Machine & Tool Works, Hamilton, who has taken over the manufacture of the National Machinery & Supply Co.’s planes and vises…” So, there is some possibility that this my vise was a transitional model, where the National casting moulds were still in use, but with modified mould nameplate inserted in the mould to strike over the NATIONAL branding and replace it with RAE branding. I’m guessing that this would date this
particular vise right in that early 1920’s time frame when the company transition was taking place.

 

[colmal]

I kept having problems finding and keeping this thread, (It's a me problem, not criticism -my brain is found wanting often) found it while looking for REED 104 1/2 info (1912 and 14 patent dates) - just curious, and pressed the watch button.

Anyway spent a bit of time reading the Stanley Victor stuff which is of interest to me, really like my original paint 742 (pre 1915) Thankyou heaps of good info and will continue to reread till I make some sense of them and delve a bit further into this thread.

I've been coming across a few more catalogues, Aussie related - a lot of US/UK vices before local manufacturing took over, overseas vices seemed to become rarer after the 1930's( just my observation-I ain't no expert) and had some little breakthroughs with dating Dawn Vices from the castings. Still a bit of a black hole around 1920-50, but getting there.

 

[TheRealZeus]

it is good to mentally check out a bit, when you have a lot of history on one specific topic, before pursuing knowledge on another.

 

[KMScott]

Snediker Quick Adjusting Vise. 3-1/2” model that opens to 5” and weights 40 lbs.

2nd one from the same owner. Thanks Tim L.

 

[CRSINMICH]

VEIT & YOUNG Vises
(Photo from KMScott's post of June, 2018)​

This vise is already on the Spreadsheet. It was posted on this thread on June 15, 2018 (#507) by KMScott. The spreadsheet has one size listed but here are specs for all three sizes that were made.

3 1/2" jaws that opened to 5"
4 1/4" jaws that opened to 6"
5" jaws that opened to 8"

If the openings seem to be exceptionally wide, the ads, from 1945 and 1948, both mention "long guides". The 1945 ad said that the vise had "guide protected construction".

​

 

[KMScott]

PowR-Kraft V86/V87. 4” jaws and weights 45lbs.

From the owner.
Uncommon PowR-Kraft bullet style vise. Made by Milwaukee Tool & Equipment Company for Montgomery Wards in 1950-1960s.

 

[CRSINMICH]

 

[Fred Knox]

I just finished cleaning a recent find - a Prentiss Bulldog 207 208. The dynamic jaw is marked 207 208, while the fixed one is marked 207 only. You can see how small it is vs. the Coke can. It has 2” jaws, opens 2 ½” and weighs 4 lbs. 7 oz. The PO (or an earlier one) had replaced the original jaws with aluminum ones (glued on).