clutch47
Well-known member
Have you considered stick?
With the proper amperage and rod, they truly can't be beat AND no bottle to screw with.
With the proper amperage and rod, they truly can't be beat AND no bottle to screw with.
Welder Needed
- Thread starter shakenfake
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Crazyjake8493
Well-known member
Flux core would the happy compromise between stick and MIG, since he's already looking for a MIG machine. Certainly nothing wrong with flux core if you steer clear of the cheap 120V machines.
OP
shakenfake
Well-known member
I've never seen anyone weld exhaust manifold bolts out with stick.
I have zero stick experience either so that would be a pretty good learning curve, maybe not though.
ThePostman
Well-known member
I did last week. Nissan Pathfinder 4.0L. I curved a 3/32" 6011 electrode, turned it up high on AC, went through the wheel well, and was able to weld a nut on. Wire feed might have been doable, but way more awkward and clumsier. Titanium 225 stick welder has been great for 4 years now.
OP
shakenfake
Well-known member
Interesting, I'll have to look some of that up. Not that I didn't think it could be done I just have never seen it
dnschmidt
Well-known member
Your statement is true but here's how I've always seen this. For metal fabrication of 1/4" or greater stick is superior to an underpowered MIG 7 days a week. If you've got a 240V 200 Amp MIG machine that erases this advantage especially if you use dual shield wire which is the best for thick metal fabrication. I use my TIG for stick but my Primeweld 180 and HTP Propulse MIGs have the zip to do the thicker stuff so I don't often need to use stick. But I do like stick for anything done outside where your shielding gas coverage will be a problem. For outside repairs and welding on trailers it can't be beat. The Primeweld 180 comes with stick as part of the package. For the money it's the best machine in the world.
saltwater4life
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2009
- Messages
- 95
I have an Eastwood 135 that I love, had it for several years now. Bought a primeweld 220 toy machine recent. Primeweld has very very good reviews
For home or hobby use as a first and only welder, stick just isn't a good recommendation in the 21st century IMO. Most people are going to be welding thin metal 99% of the time unless they're working on heavy equipment. I have a 240V Lincoln MIG and an ancient inherited Miller stick welder. I don't have a farm and don't work on heavy equipment; I've never needed to use the Miller. The last time I used it was 20 years ago just for fun.
clutch47
Well-known member
With the right setup, a simple arc welder can be used as a tig.
My Lincoln tombstone has worked well on 18ga sheet steel that way.
While I agree that for a beginner to just make things stick together, a wire feed welder with Flux core wire can do a decent job.... when you want to fix your own trailer hitch or do something heavy, my choice is stick.
My first MIG was only 100 or 125 amps something like that, so I used that for thin stuff and kept my stick welder for thick stuff. Not a bad plan especially if you already had a stick welder.
Tennessee Cattleman
Well-known member
A good stick inverter welder seems to weld thinner steel better than a small stick transformer welder, but it still won't touch a mig on thin stuff. Sold my Miller mig, but still have my Miller Maxstar 161 S stick welder. Mostly weld on agriculture equipment.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
I don't care what the manufacturer says, you will never get enough power out of a 120V outlet, even wired for 20A, to get that kind of power.
strutaeng
Well-known member
That's 120 Amps of welding output (whatever the voltage is, usually like 16 to 25 volts DC). Amps at the electrode.
NOT 120 amps at 120 volts AC household current.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Yes, I understand that !
16VDC @ 120A is 1,920 watts. The 120VAC input to the welder would have to greater than 16A.
whateg01
Well-known member
My old Campbell hausfeld had a 20A plug on it.
It claims max current is 24A on 120v, I haven't checked. 1/8" 6011's run good at 100A can do a lot of welding before you trip the breaker. I weld a lot of brackets and supports this way on jobs. Lots of 1-1 1/2 beads. Hardly ever trip a breaker doing this type of work. Very nice not having to wire in a pigtail to run a welder. Only thing better would be an engine drive, but not for my light use.
In the shop or out in the field you can run 240v for heavier fab. I've run a lot off a 20A 240v breaker and never tripped it at 150 amps. No problems using 100' of #12 cord.
Why are we limiting to 16 amps? A 20A breaker will hold 25 for a couple minutes probably. A lot of welding is intermittent so it works.
Because that is code for load on a 20A breaker. I get it might not always be applicable, but it's still good practice.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
The 16A number ASSUMES 100% efficiency in the machine. Not possible.
Also, most home/garages built in the 50s/60s/70s only have 15A wiring.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Glad it is working for you ! I just would not recommend that for most people.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Very unusual. Even more unusual is to find a 120VAC 20A receptacle !My old Campbell hausfeld had a 20A plug on it.
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Usually wear a glove on my left hand but cannot get used to a glove on my right hand unless using a cutting torch. Even then I'll only wear a glove if doing alt of cutting. The bright side is I have no hair on my hand or arm.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
No it isn't. Code requiring derating by 20% for constant loads, which a welder is not. You can use the full 20a. and then some, depending on how long it runs for.
Only for continuous loads.
strutaeng
Well-known member
I've got an older 17 gallon Emglo 2HP air compressor. The motor appears to be original and is a huge GE monster and the listed amps is 19A!
I run it just fine on 20A circuits. Recently I decided to add a outdoor outlet I had roughed out a few years ago. The standard GCFI outlets I had for general use tripped (15A), but not the breaker. So I had to go find a 20A GFCI. THD has them in stock.
Going back to the 120V welders, a lot of them say they need to be plugged into a 20A circuit on the instructions. And the 120V mode usually has a lighter duty cycle. Like this I just pulled from the Handler 210MVP:
I run it just fine on 20A circuits. Recently I decided to add a outdoor outlet I had roughed out a few years ago. The standard GCFI outlets I had for general use tripped (15A), but not the breaker. So I had to go find a 20A GFCI. THD has them in stock.
Going back to the 120V welders, a lot of them say they need to be plugged into a 20A circuit on the instructions. And the 120V mode usually has a lighter duty cycle. Like this I just pulled from the Handler 210MVP:
whateg01
Well-known member
I noticed all the receptacles in my hotel room this week were 20A. I don't think they are that rare.
dont even come out of the same factory. just owned by the same parent company
nadogail
Well-known member
I guess I have been mistaken about that. I was under the impression they had some interchangeable parts, not all but some.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
They can have interchangeable parts and still be made in different factories. Multiple production lines for the same product are very common
Terra Nova
Well-known member
My garage is packed with them!
House was built in ‘04 and all the receptacle circuits inside are 12 ga on 20 amp breakers (15 amp outlets though)
dr_clyde
Well-known member
You’re wrong.
I routinely run my Miller Maxstar inverter welder in 120v 20 amp input and can easily go over 120 amps of TIG output. Done it hundreds of times
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Must be short duty cycle.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Very unusual unless the house was built to your specs.
dr_clyde
Well-known member
Why can’t you accept that you’re wrong?
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Its not new
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Look at it from the flip side. I am trying to understand WHY I AM WRONG !
50 years ago, I worked at Sears and sold air compressors. The 1 HP model was supposed to run on 120VAC @ 15A. Many got returned because the starting current exceed the capacity of the 15A circuit.
I applaud all of you with the foresight to install 12 AWG/20A circuits in your shop/garage !
finn
Well-known member
My first house was built in 1976, and the Garage had a 20 amp breaker. Only one outlet, but it was a 20 amp circuit.
Same with the next house, built in 1994.
Both were in DuPage county Illinois, and were constructed using emt conduit, which was code at the time.
dr_clyde
Well-known member
Electrical devices have come a long way in 50 years. It seems like I’m so many of these posts you’re still stuck in the 1960s.
Welders in particular are primarily inverter based machines now and use computers and fairly advanced circuitry to achieve the desired welding output on a given input power. I don’t pretend to know how they work but the electrical engineers at Miller and whoever clearly know what they’re doing.
I’ve run my Maxstar off 15A household circuits in MANY homes doing railing installations. The only time I pop a breaker is if I try to run above about 130-140 amps or so or if I long arc too bad and the voltage spikes to maintain the arc. And that’s a 15 amp circuit in someone’s house, not a dedicated home run in a garage.
My Invision 450 mPa can run up to 600 amps output on a 35 amp 480v breaker. I don’t know how Miller does it, but it does it. I’ve never popped a breaker even running 1/16” aluminum wire MIG welding 1” thick plate.
Inverter welders have changed the world in terms of power requirements for welders.
Do some homework. Look up trip curves for a 20A breaker. Look up the input current for various welders. This information is all easily found on the web
Around here most homes wired since the 60's have 20A circuits for most receptacles.