Woodworking 101--Tools and Tips
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jar944
Well-known member
Lumber from logs.
I looked at all my options and calling in a portable Mill was the only realistic option in my case.
I looked at all my options and calling in a portable Mill was the only realistic option in my case.
OP
jimreed2160
Well-known member
Jar--You are my new hero. THAT is how you make lumber.
turbowoodworker
Well-known member
Jar,
If you don't mind saying, what did the sawyer charge for that job and how long did it take?
If you don't mind saying, what did the sawyer charge for that job and how long did it take?
ALinCarolina
Well-known member
Jar: wow, what a stash! As Bogey would say, the stuff that dreams are made of.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Jar: nothing like waking up, turning on the laptop and getting some WOOD **** right out of the gate. WELL DONE SIR!!
yes details on what kind of wood (Dogwood maybe?), price to mill them, what did you make out of them (pictures please if you have some) and i like that a lot better than the wood they sell at Lowe's or HD.
Jim: sorry you had a bad experience trying to get some wood.
ALL: i have commercial racking set up for my cedar fencing and deck lumber i buy right off the saw at a mill about a 90 minute drive from me, but it would be awesome to buy other types of wood that way so i'm looking and will let you know.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE SOME WOOD **** PICTURES and stories to post please do. THANKS IN ADVANCE.
yes details on what kind of wood (Dogwood maybe?), price to mill them, what did you make out of them (pictures please if you have some) and i like that a lot better than the wood they sell at Lowe's or HD.
Jim: sorry you had a bad experience trying to get some wood.
ALL: i have commercial racking set up for my cedar fencing and deck lumber i buy right off the saw at a mill about a 90 minute drive from me, but it would be awesome to buy other types of wood that way so i'm looking and will let you know.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE SOME WOOD **** PICTURES and stories to post please do. THANKS IN ADVANCE.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
ALL: i have another question for all you wood workers and home builders. i know it won't be my last one and hope this might help others.
i'm installing trim around my new front door on the inside. the old trim was 2.25 inch molding around the top of the door and on the outside of the side lights and 45'd at the top corners. then a couple small thin pieces of MDF maybe 1/4 inch thick and 4 inches wide around the door. sort of like the way the outside looks now.
so after hearing from several of you that if i'm going to paint the wood it shouldn't make any difference and that i should just by MDF so i found a Home Depot store last night that had the 4 3.5 inch and 1 4.5 inch 8 foot long pieces and here's my question.
instead of 45 ing the top corners i sort of liked the idea of maybe putting in a 2 inch thick 3.5 or 4.5 inch square piece where the outside boards meet the top piece. since the MDF is 3/4 or close to that would 2 inch be over kill or would even a nice 2x4 that is 1.5 inches thick maybe look okay since everything will be painted white. anybody do something like this have a thought or is there maybe a better look or idea i'm missing?
here'a a few ornate ones i found and maybe after learning and hanging around you guys I'll do a door frame like the last one next Thanksgiving.
thanks in advance!!
i'm installing trim around my new front door on the inside. the old trim was 2.25 inch molding around the top of the door and on the outside of the side lights and 45'd at the top corners. then a couple small thin pieces of MDF maybe 1/4 inch thick and 4 inches wide around the door. sort of like the way the outside looks now.
so after hearing from several of you that if i'm going to paint the wood it shouldn't make any difference and that i should just by MDF so i found a Home Depot store last night that had the 4 3.5 inch and 1 4.5 inch 8 foot long pieces and here's my question.
instead of 45 ing the top corners i sort of liked the idea of maybe putting in a 2 inch thick 3.5 or 4.5 inch square piece where the outside boards meet the top piece. since the MDF is 3/4 or close to that would 2 inch be over kill or would even a nice 2x4 that is 1.5 inches thick maybe look okay since everything will be painted white. anybody do something like this have a thought or is there maybe a better look or idea i'm missing?
here'a a few ornate ones i found and maybe after learning and hanging around you guys I'll do a door frame like the last one next Thanksgiving.
thanks in advance!!
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drivesitfar
Well-known member
Cheech: what is a rosette? do i buy or make them?
if you could make them that would make you awesome in my book. I'm sure to someone who is set up to do it they would say it's not hard but to me, it's a pretty neat thing.
I linked above (click the word rosette) lowes' selection just to give you an idea. It's an inlaid or raised design within a square, although it doesn't have to follow those rules exactly.
click this picture:
I linked above (click the word rosette) lowes' selection just to give you an idea. It's an inlaid or raised design within a square, although it doesn't have to follow those rules exactly.
click this picture:
OP
jimreed2160
Well-known member
Drives--I am not much help with door trim. Down here in FL, wood rot is a big issue. I have replaced all of my 40 yo doors in the last few years and used PVC trim on the exterior. It is white, has a wood grain, and laughs at moisture.
Rejoice, ww students. I will be laying low on the tutorials during the holidays. Just got some bad spots whacked out of my head by the dermo. Twenty three stitches later and now I have a headache. Ya'll keep making shavings and sawdust. Catch up with you later.
Rejoice, ww students. I will be laying low on the tutorials during the holidays. Just got some bad spots whacked out of my head by the dermo. Twenty three stitches later and now I have a headache. Ya'll keep making shavings and sawdust. Catch up with you later.
turbowoodworker
Well-known member
Drives,
Rosettes can be had in all species of woods and MDF. They will really, really dress up that doorway. Don't even think about 2x4 dimensional lumber. Short square pieces like that will warp, check and fall apart before your New Year's Eve Party.
Buy a couple of MDF rosettes. I bet Lowe's/HD have them in different sizes.
Rosettes can be had in all species of woods and MDF. They will really, really dress up that doorway. Don't even think about 2x4 dimensional lumber. Short square pieces like that will warp, check and fall apart before your New Year's Eve Party.
Buy a couple of MDF rosettes. I bet Lowe's/HD have them in different sizes.
CRSINMICH
Well-known member
Drives: If you'd really like to make your own rosettes there are cutter's available. I've used them in a drill press. It's cool and quick to do. "REMEMBER: Read, understand, and follow all safety precautions. And the most important precaution is to wear these - safety glasses." - N. Abrams
CRSINMICH
Well-known member
Making Winding Sticks
I followed Paul Sellers' videos for these. I used only hand tools. Winding Sticks reveal twist in boards and can help guide you in flattening them.
This was my first attempt at a hand tool only project. I also remembered to photograph nearly everything. Lots more pictures available.
Picture 1: Using a No.4 and a NO.5 plane, I flattened, squared, and brought the mahogany to dimension.
Picture 2: After careful lay-out, I ripped the board on a diagonal to create the two sticks.
Picture 3: Using a chisel and a router plane, I made the recess for the light colored wood inserts.
Picture 4: Close up of router plane in action. The blade can be gradually lowered until it reaches the lay-out line just visible at the bottom
Picture 5: Finished winding sticks in use. Notice the black line in the front showing against the light inserts in the rear. There is no twist in this board.
Picture 6: Winding sticks reveal twist. Either the right rear of the board is high or the left front is low - maybe both. (Twist exaggerated for photographic clarity)
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drivesitfar
Well-known member
Turbo: if i was to make these corner pieces out of 2x4's i do have a few old growth pieces laying around that i would use, but thanks for the heads up.
CRS: i bet having the little 3.5 inch squares firmly in the jaws of my XY vise might be a good thing and to also have my vise bolted in my drill press. yes SAFETY is a MUST.
Cheech: thanks for the idea and i'd already thought of it so good to know i wasn't way off base.
Jim: enjoy your holiday and the students and fellow WW's will be waiting for your speedy return.
ALL: HAPPY THANKSGIVING to all of you and hope you don't eat TOO MUCH.
CRS: i bet having the little 3.5 inch squares firmly in the jaws of my XY vise might be a good thing and to also have my vise bolted in my drill press. yes SAFETY is a MUST.
Cheech: thanks for the idea and i'd already thought of it so good to know i wasn't way off base.
Jim: enjoy your holiday and the students and fellow WW's will be waiting for your speedy return.
ALL: HAPPY THANKSGIVING to all of you and hope you don't eat TOO MUCH.
McBrownie
Well-known member
My Type 11 family. From left to right: No. 7, No. 5, No.4, No. 3, and a 60 1/2 low angle block plane. The number 4 has a Veritas PMV-11 blade which was a very nice upgrade. The others will be keeping their original blades. I'm going to use the original No. 4 blade in the No. 5. I'll put a camber on one for scrubbing and keep the other one flat.
I am NOT getting a No. 1, 2, 6, or 8. I'm serious. Really, I am.
View media item 65369
I am NOT getting a No. 1, 2, 6, or 8. I'm serious. Really, I am.
View media item 65369
CRSINMICH
Well-known member
My Type 11 family. From left to right: No. 7, No. 5, No.4, No. 3, and a 60 1/2 low angle block plane. The number 4 has a Veritas PMV-11 blade which was a very nice upgrade. The others will be keeping their original blades. I'm going to use the original No. 4 blade in the No. 5. I'll put a camber on one for scrubbing and keep the other one flat.
I am NOT getting a No. 1, 2, 6, or 8. I'm serious. Really, I am.
View media item 65369
McB: You're a wise man for holding the line at just those planes. You can easily get by without a No.6. Still, a No. 4 1/2 or a 5 1/2 could be useful. A No.45 would be really rad and extremely useful. Ooh ooh, how about a 41? 51? 78?
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jar944
Well-known member
As for the intended use, there isn't anything specific in mind.
Thanks, but I can't take credit for the beard. That's actually my buddy zach. We got the logs off of his neighbor. My beard is seasonal so its never that long.
Jar--You are my new hero. THAT is how you make lumber.
Ha thanks.
$.35 per bd ft. For just over $800. It took him about 4 or 5 hours if I remember
Ha
Manassas.. the logs were free. This is just some of what we didn't take
Its all tulip (yellow) poplar. Certainly different than you typically find in lowes. The boards we got were up to 24" wide
jar944
Well-known member
My Type 11 family. From left to right: No. 7, No. 5, No.4, No. 3, and a 60 1/2 low angle block plane. The number 4 has a Veritas PMV-11 blade which was a very nice upgrade. The others will be keeping their original blades. I'm going to use the original No. 4 blade in the No. 5. I'll put a camber on one for scrubbing and keep the other one flat.
I am NOT getting a No. 1, 2, 6, or 8. I'm serious. Really, I am.
View media item 65369
Nice collection.
I'm on a similar path, but got the 6 since it was only $18
turbowoodworker
Well-known member
Thanks, Jar. Good to know as a reference. Here in NC I have access to lots of oak and walnut and have thought about attempting to find a local sawyer.
On a side note, somewhat wood related, my wife is taking up hops farming on a large scale (several acres) and is researching cedar poles. I think she knows every sawyer in the state by now.
On a side note, somewhat wood related, my wife is taking up hops farming on a large scale (several acres) and is researching cedar poles. I think she knows every sawyer in the state by now.
jar944
Well-known member
There were cheaper Sawyers locally, but the one I used was the only one that actually traveled to your site. The other local woodmizer owner was $80 hrs but I had to haul the logs to him.
turbowoodworker
Well-known member
Well that defeats the purpose, don't it?
jar944
Well-known member
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Jar: so about how heavy is a wet 24 inch wide 2 inch thick maybe 6 foot long piece of poplar weigh?
again i do like your lumber company and what a fun way to spend an afternoon especially if you have a good place to store it.
McB: VERY NICE!!
ALL: when talking BOARD FEET vs. Feet when talking about lumber it might be nice to have somebody explain what the difference is.
i'm not 100% on the meaning of board feet, but i have an idea. so if somebody that knows would you care to share the math? i usually buy 8 foot long lumber with a price per board even at the mill or they also simplify it for me and tell me the FOOT PRICING. anybody want to tell us since some guys still sell quality lumber at BOARD FOOT PRICING?
again i do like your lumber company and what a fun way to spend an afternoon especially if you have a good place to store it.
McB: VERY NICE!!
ALL: when talking BOARD FEET vs. Feet when talking about lumber it might be nice to have somebody explain what the difference is.
i'm not 100% on the meaning of board feet, but i have an idea. so if somebody that knows would you care to share the math? i usually buy 8 foot long lumber with a price per board even at the mill or they also simplify it for me and tell me the FOOT PRICING. anybody want to tell us since some guys still sell quality lumber at BOARD FOOT PRICING?
Craptain
Well-known member
Drives. If you have a piece of wood 12" wide by 12" long and 1" thick, (usually referred to as 4/4") that is 1 board foot. But it is a measure of volume so if it is 1/2 the width and twice the length it is still 1 board foot. So it is 1/12th of a cubic foot.
And not just some, but all good lumber yards use board feet for measurement.
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
And not just some, but all good lumber yards use board feet for measurement.
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Craptain: not ALL GOOD LUMBER YARDS around here use BOARD FOOT to price their lumber. I'm sure they can and maybe they do, but telling me a 2x4 piece of walnut is $1 per foot and if i get an 8 footer I know my cost is $8 in this instance. at a $1 a board foot it would be cheaper correct?
i followed you for 12 x 12 and 1 inch thick being a board foot, but when you went to 4x4 and cubic is where it gets a little confusing and i'm not horrible at math.
i know i need to learn if i want to go into some stores and buy some hardwoods or if i want to be a logger and sell my logs to a mill, but i usually shop inside somebody's mill or garage or warehouse. i ask for price of a pile, stack or so many boards.
i just wanted to let others know that might show up to buy lumber thinking it's by the foot when cost could be quite different when it's by the board foot. ok?
thanks for trying to explain this.
i followed you for 12 x 12 and 1 inch thick being a board foot, but when you went to 4x4 and cubic is where it gets a little confusing and i'm not horrible at math.
i know i need to learn if i want to go into some stores and buy some hardwoods or if i want to be a logger and sell my logs to a mill, but i usually shop inside somebody's mill or garage or warehouse. i ask for price of a pile, stack or so many boards.
i just wanted to let others know that might show up to buy lumber thinking it's by the foot when cost could be quite different when it's by the board foot. ok?
thanks for trying to explain this.
jar944
Well-known member
Rough lumber is measured in quarters of a inch. 4/4 is 1 inch thick, 5/4 is 1 and 1/4 and so on. 16/4 (4 inch thick) is the thickest you typically find in a lumber yard.
So a 4/4 by 6 inch wide 8 foot long walnut board would be 4 board feet.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Jar: thanks and yes that makes a little more sense to me. i buy 5/4 cedar 1x6's for many projects like siding, deck and so on. when Craptain said 4/4 i thought he meant a 4x4 which is totally different. thanks for clearing that up and the math on the walnut board looks like what i would have thought.
so any idea how heavy your 24 inch wide wet Poplar slab that was maybe 2 inches thick and 6 foot long weighed? i'm betting it would have been difficult for you to handle it yourself until it dries?
thanks
so any idea how heavy your 24 inch wide wet Poplar slab that was maybe 2 inches thick and 6 foot long weighed? i'm betting it would have been difficult for you to handle it yourself until it dries?
thanks
Drives
board feet is kind of the 'opposite' of dimensional lumber. 1by or 2by or 4by you know two dimensions in the name, you buy the length you need.
Usually when buying board feet, the thickness is 4/4, or 1" thick (not 1by, but actual 1 inch thick) and can be any length in the other two dimensions, so you always need to ask. The reason being you may need to know how much plane/joint/sand/cut are needed in man or machine hours on all 6 sides.
you can buy 1/4 in board feet, up to i've seen 8/4. The most common are 1/4 4/4 and 5/4 (from what I've seen).
board feet is kind of the 'opposite' of dimensional lumber. 1by or 2by or 4by you know two dimensions in the name, you buy the length you need.
Usually when buying board feet, the thickness is 4/4, or 1" thick (not 1by, but actual 1 inch thick) and can be any length in the other two dimensions, so you always need to ask. The reason being you may need to know how much plane/joint/sand/cut are needed in man or machine hours on all 6 sides.
you can buy 1/4 in board feet, up to i've seen 8/4. The most common are 1/4 4/4 and 5/4 (from what I've seen).
jar944
Well-known member
Jar: so about how heavy is a wet 24 inch wide 2 inch thick maybe 6 foot long piece of poplar weigh?
again i do like your lumber company and what a fun way to spend an afternoon especially if you have a good place to store it.
McB: VERY NICE!!
ALL: when talking BOARD FEET vs. Feet when talking about lumber it might be nice to have somebody explain what the difference is.
i'm not 100% on the meaning of board feet, but i have an idea. so if somebody that knows would you care to share the math? i usually buy 8 foot long lumber with a price per board even at the mill or they also simplify it for me and tell me the FOOT PRICING. anybody want to tell us since some guys still sell quality lumber at BOARD FOOT PRICING?
Wet poplar is still relatively light compared to most hardwoods.
If I were to guess maybe 100 to 125lbs
turbowoodworker
Well-known member
https://cedarstripkayak.wordpress.c...ipkayak.wordpress.com/lumber-selection/162-2/
This is a link to a lumber density chart in lbs/cubic foot. Poplar is 21-33lbs/cubic foot. So yah, heavy chunk, Drives.
This is a link to a lumber density chart in lbs/cubic foot. Poplar is 21-33lbs/cubic foot. So yah, heavy chunk, Drives.
OP
jimreed2160
Well-known member
Lumber pricing is black magic. Board foot is technically 144 cubic inches. But is that before or after finishing? Well that depends on the seller. 4/4 lumber that is dressed down to 13/16 is measured as 1". Some sellers use running foot in that case.
It all depends on the seller. Ask them to explain. Good sellers are happy to educate you. Wood, a natural product that reduces during production and also shrinks is inherently hard to price. Most sellers do their best and are honest. Some estimate a lot and like large volume buyers because it is easier. Large volume buyers also buy the good and bad while retail purchasers like us are picky.
This whole pricing thing could fill a book. It is complicated.
It all depends on the seller. Ask them to explain. Good sellers are happy to educate you. Wood, a natural product that reduces during production and also shrinks is inherently hard to price. Most sellers do their best and are honest. Some estimate a lot and like large volume buyers because it is easier. Large volume buyers also buy the good and bad while retail purchasers like us are picky.
This whole pricing thing could fill a book. It is complicated.
turbowoodworker
Well-known member
The place I used to deal with in PHX was good for one price then had breaks for 20 and 100 bd ft. They even let you mix species to get to the break points. It really paid to buy for one entire project or even two at once.
The places I deal with in NC do not do that, so it can really add up.
The places I deal with in NC do not do that, so it can really add up.
Terranova
Well-known member
Man! I can't wait to contribute a legit post to this thread, but I gotta go back and catch up on 14 days and 500+ posts!!!
I just brought my dads dieffenbach work bench up from his house to mine. Sadly it's that time begin inheriting his tools. I feel guilty for being excited about it.
I'll be back when I get caught up.
I just brought my dads dieffenbach work bench up from his house to mine. Sadly it's that time begin inheriting his tools. I feel guilty for being excited about it.
I'll be back when I get caught up.
turbowoodworker
Well-known member
While on the topic of wood, what is your favorite species to work with? What do you dislike?
Here is my list of favorites:
walnut, mahogany easy to work, easy on tools, very pretty wood
maple is nice wood to look at but a little harder on tools
I dislike the look and feel of red oak although quarter sawn white oak is nice looking, but very heavy and pricey. I have only done one project in white oak, a small bookshelf, and everytime I move it I question if I forgot to remove the books.
I used to do a lot with exotics, paduk especially. It is not bad to work but the dust is horrible, probably dangerous.
Jatoba (african cherry) is like cutting rock.
Freijo guarantees you a week of picking splinters
I have used some reclaimed timbers from barns. Really nice but you must have a metal detector and patience (or a bottomless saw blade budget). The color and workability is unsurpassed if you choose properly. We have a "Reuse" warehouse in Durham that supplies all sorts of reclaimed wood from thin flooring to posts with old mortises and pins.
Surprisingly, and for an unknown reason, I have never used cherry for a project. That was all Norm ever worked with (except plywood). I think I will try something in cherry next. There is no logical reason for me to not have done cherry in the past.
What are your favorites and why?
What do you hate?
Here is my list of favorites:
walnut, mahogany easy to work, easy on tools, very pretty wood
maple is nice wood to look at but a little harder on tools
I dislike the look and feel of red oak although quarter sawn white oak is nice looking, but very heavy and pricey. I have only done one project in white oak, a small bookshelf, and everytime I move it I question if I forgot to remove the books.
I used to do a lot with exotics, paduk especially. It is not bad to work but the dust is horrible, probably dangerous.
Jatoba (african cherry) is like cutting rock.
Freijo guarantees you a week of picking splinters
I have used some reclaimed timbers from barns. Really nice but you must have a metal detector and patience (or a bottomless saw blade budget). The color and workability is unsurpassed if you choose properly. We have a "Reuse" warehouse in Durham that supplies all sorts of reclaimed wood from thin flooring to posts with old mortises and pins.
Surprisingly, and for an unknown reason, I have never used cherry for a project. That was all Norm ever worked with (except plywood). I think I will try something in cherry next. There is no logical reason for me to not have done cherry in the past.
What are your favorites and why?
What do you hate?
turbowoodworker
Well-known member
Terranova,
Don't feel guilty. Just honor your dad and use his bench and tools as if he were there watching.
Don't feel guilty. Just honor your dad and use his bench and tools as if he were there watching.
ez-duzit
Well-known member
Mostly work in teak. It is lovely to work with. Extremely expensive. Splinters hurt like hell and must be removed the same day.
Mahogany is perhaps 2nd. It varies greatly, from Philippine to African and Honduran. Some has so much stress that rips are sometimes unusable, they curl so much.
Afromosia produces very sharp, needle-like splinters that also hurt like hell. The dust is especially bad to breath.
Mahogany is perhaps 2nd. It varies greatly, from Philippine to African and Honduran. Some has so much stress that rips are sometimes unusable, they curl so much.
Afromosia produces very sharp, needle-like splinters that also hurt like hell. The dust is especially bad to breath.
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drivesitfar
Well-known member
ALL: thanks for the 411 on BOARD FOOT vs. By the foot when buying lumber. i pretty much knew it, but I always have to stop and think about it and i bet some of the new woodworkers might not have known so maybe it will give them a good heads up before they get to the store. i'd hope lumber guys are all honest, but like has been mentioned is a 3/4 inch plywood 3/4 inch thick? NOT ANYMORE!!
in fact i just tore apart an old workbench to use the plywood to build a crate/pallet to ship and the REAL 3/4 inch plywood on it was almost worth saving for another project because it was so much better than the new stuff.
speaking of PHILIPPINE MAHOGANY i must have burnt or thrown away thousands of board feet of that when remodeling mine and a few other homes. i hope the younger generation really gets a handle on what is quality and what isn't cause the throw away society will leave them with a broken down POS when they get old. i can't believe how bad my 20 year old cabinets are in my kitchen now that i thought were awesome when i installed them. my parent's 1965 plywood cabinets still look great and the cabinet maker followed the grain as much as possible. I hear what you REAL WOOD WORKER guys are saying when you are looking at the wood almost like it is speaking to you.
we could probably do an entire thread on just WOOD and i hope we keep it here and just keep talking about how to buy it, store it, learn how to know the different varieties and costs, how to prepare it and what we can make from it.
when my wife and i go to some of the little towns around Washington and Oregon i usually stop at some of the stores that sell some great things and some are made of wood mostly because she doesn't always enjoy my old garage and barns where i buy some cool stuff. here's a few i took pictures of on our last trip.
in fact i just tore apart an old workbench to use the plywood to build a crate/pallet to ship and the REAL 3/4 inch plywood on it was almost worth saving for another project because it was so much better than the new stuff.
speaking of PHILIPPINE MAHOGANY i must have burnt or thrown away thousands of board feet of that when remodeling mine and a few other homes. i hope the younger generation really gets a handle on what is quality and what isn't cause the throw away society will leave them with a broken down POS when they get old. i can't believe how bad my 20 year old cabinets are in my kitchen now that i thought were awesome when i installed them. my parent's 1965 plywood cabinets still look great and the cabinet maker followed the grain as much as possible. I hear what you REAL WOOD WORKER guys are saying when you are looking at the wood almost like it is speaking to you.
we could probably do an entire thread on just WOOD and i hope we keep it here and just keep talking about how to buy it, store it, learn how to know the different varieties and costs, how to prepare it and what we can make from it.
when my wife and i go to some of the little towns around Washington and Oregon i usually stop at some of the stores that sell some great things and some are made of wood mostly because she doesn't always enjoy my old garage and barns where i buy some cool stuff. here's a few i took pictures of on our last trip.
