20ft Car Trailer Build Planning Ideas

[Elvenhome21]

Its getting close to racing season and Im getting sick of the POS trailer Ive been using for the last couple years. So Im looking at building another one. My dad and I already have built a nice superlite car trailer but its not wide enough, has rigid suspension, and its not meant to haul anything more then about 3k lb car. The new one is going to be a 7k-10k trailer

Id love to justify the price of a maxey drop and load http://www.maxeytrailers.com/trailer-details.php?tid=124

but I know I can build it for well less than half and fit my needs better. But overall I will be copying a lot of the ideas for the new trailer (air ride, no ramp loading)

I can even make the axle-less air ride with my cnc plasma cutter. Its a fairly straight forward design http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Suspension/Timbren/A35RD545E.html

One thing Im not sure about is what coupler I want. Ive seen a couple people say use a bulldog, but after searching last night I found a Demco Ez Latch hitch that look pretty slick. Ive never used anything other then the plain flip style and the wrap around style which I despise with a passion. Any Suggestions?

Im planning on it being 5x2" tubing frame or possibly 6x2 with a thinner wall. The main deck will be 20' long and deck width needs to be min of 84" i believe But ill prob just make the outside of the tires sit right at 102" for maximum deck space for easiest loading.

Im figuring on spacing the axles apart from each other an extra 10-14 inchs apart from each other for a more stable riding trailer plus it should be less finicky on car placement if you have to load it backwards or something weird. I know it will have more scrub but i can either have a electric dump valve for the front axle for sharp turns or run a leveler valve with a slight difference between the front and rear axles to force the front axle to be the scrub axle with less weight on it.

Havent decided yet if I want 6 or 8 bolt hubs yet. Any Suggestions?

 

[66 GMC Truckin]

I really like this design. I've never seen it before, but it would make it so much easier to load lowered vehicles. I'm looking forward to your build on here. Subscribed!

 

[CNGsaves]

That's a sweet design for car trailer. Love the aero nose and axle-less hubs.

Your E-trailer link shows 5 bolt pattern, so unsure why you are considering 6 or 8 lug? I thought typical trailer rims were "standardized" to some sort??

I'd vote for the bull-dog hitch as peace-of-mind it will not come loose. Downside to bull-dog is security when you have the trailer sitting by itself disconnected from truck. I'd invest in specific locking system for bull-dog.

Looking forward to your build. Good luck!!

P.S. Now we know the trailer . . . how about the car?? Any pics to share??

 

[koditten]

I build trailers and I cringe at the amount of custom work you will be doing. You, Mr., Got yourself a project there

As for the bolt #, The heavier the axle capacity. Most 5 bolt wheels are limited to be mounted on 3500lbs axles or less.

I like that you are going for 20' length. My 20' tilt bed is the best I have ever used. 16' is just too short for anything larger than a cavalier.

I have a picture of one of my power tilt car haulers in my profile if you are curious.

One other thing, consider using channel steel for the frame. I have found it to be superior to tube frames. This is just my opinion.

Later

KO

 

[Mr.N]

Havent decided yet if I want 6 or 8 bolt hubs yet. Any Suggestions?

I'd go 8 bolt, easier to find from what I've seen.

I see you like the Timbern design, do note I only saw them rated to 3500 lbs an "axle".
The trailer you pictured weights in a 3750, thus would only leave you 3250 for a vehicle.
Might want to look into a dropped axle and a Featherride design with air or here: LBS


My advice, stay away from people who just like the idea and stick to those who've built something similar.
And air ride trailer is on my wish list.

 

[koditten]

I'm new to this air ride system. What is the advantage over springs?

KO

 

[racingtadpole]

I'm new to this air ride system. What is the advantage over springs?

KO

Smoother ride. You can regulate the effective spring rate (by regulating pressure to the bags) to suit the load.

Oh and you can do cool stuff like make it capable of loading with out ramps..

 

[Elvenhome21]

http://www.timbren.com/air-suspensions.htm

This is what im coping.
Koditten: Just curious on the reasoning for channel trailers would be better. Id prob go with 6x2 channel if its better then 6x2x.120 tubing. But is .250 thick channel enough or do I need .375. Security I'm not concerned with for hitch, just coupling.

Can anyone identify the air bag on the Dakota. I want either 3500 min or 5000 lb capacity bags but need to compress to about 2" and need to be fairly small dia around 6". The maxey trailer uses 6" drop spindles so I'll match the drop. The trailer frame is the simple part because the Dakota and Timbren just bolt on the the frame rail.

Biggest challenge right now is figuring out the air bags and air system. Ive never dealt with anything like it other than on a semi but a semi air system is pretty much the same from the Big 4. Custom stuff like this I dont have a clue what will work especially with the dimension constraints and weight rating needed

 

[Elvenhome21]

https://photos-a.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/2605_59329479794_2030229_n.jpg I sold the white super late model but I'm building another one that is setup strictly for road racing.

That's one of the main reasons I need a custom trailer to fit a 85" overall width and almost 18' length. Also with this car having 50/50 or more rear weight I want to have a more spread axle so I don't have to load it so far forward on the trailer

 

[Elvenhome21]

Koditten: Just curious on the reasoning for channel trailers would be better. Id prob go with 6x2 channel if its better then 6x2x.120 tubing. But is .250 thick channel enough or do I need .375. Security I'm not concerned with for hitch, just coupling.

Can anyone identify the air bag on the Dakota.

Does anyone know the strength difference between 5" and 6" channel vs 6x2x.120 and .180 tubing

 

[koditten]

I l ike to do a combination of both tube and channel on my car haulers. I like the perimiter to be channel and the cross pieces to be a combination of tube and angle steel. The best would be 1 x 3 channel for the cross members, but that adds extra weight. My usual customers only want an 8k trailer, so I use 3/16 angle steel on every other cross member. The tube steel cross members is only used to add rigidity to the trailer. Having 4 sides to weld to really stiffens up the frame.

Because the weakest link is the wireing of the lights and brakes, I like channel. It makes repairs much easier. I have found it very difficult to make repairs on the wires in tube trailers because the wires are in the tubes. The same problem exist with channel steel trailers as well, but it is a lot easier to make repairs when you can see the wires on both ends.

People can always make the case that the wires should be safer in tubes, but real world experince has shown me that is not the case.

I can't tell you the difference in strength between the 2. I have built both. The 6" is much heavier, so I sacrificed capacity by going that route. My proffessional opinion was it was overkill unless someone wanted to haul tractors with loaded tires.
My own personal car hauler is 2 x 4 channel. The trailer has no problem hauling 3/4 ton trucks.

I do like the air ride system that you show. Judging by the size of that axle stub, that is definitly a 5k axle. With me using springed axles, the axle spindle is the same for a 5k or an 8k, they just use heavier springs, so in short that could even be and 8k air ride system.

Are you sure that pic isn't for a semi trailer? It sure looks heavy duty.

Later

Kirk

 

[koditten]

After looking at those bags in your pics, they look to be the same exact bags that are on air ride semi-trailers. They blow routinly, so any tractor/trailer dealership/repair facility will stock them.

Later

KO

 

[Hawke]

For a trailer that will only be used for race car transport, just think of designing it with a sloping floor. There is really no need to transport the car on a flat floor. It makes getting the car off the trailer so much easier, and you tend not to bottom out considering the low ground clearance.

Use an electric winch that powers on and off with a long remote control. Life is so much easier when you can load and unload with no engine power. Consider also that the winch can be used with an A frame for engine lift when you have to change an engine at the track.

You can power the winch with its own battery power, that can also be charged and run via an Anderson plug from the tow car. If you are really keen you can run an inverter to give you AC power to run small tools and battery chargers. Beats using a noisy genset.

I've also plumbed in an air circuit using a very high pressure air tank (3000psi) and regulator. Good for dry tyre air and small rattle guns. One tank can last me a whole season, and costs $24 for a refill. Beats using a compressor.

Hope this helps.

 

[Elvenhome21]

Semi air bags are way to big. They're normally about 12-14" tall and to big of a diameter

 

[Elvenhome21]

The trailer will have a winch. Biggest problem is getting a longer control cord. Wedge decks I'm not a big fan of because the car site up so high in the front. I don't mind using a generator I have like 4 of them I need to put to use. This trailer I'm going all out on.

 

[koditten]

Will a tilt bed car hauler work? Those are my specialty. My customers seem to love the powertilt that I make. I sure know I love mine (which was the prototype). Again, pics in my profile.

KO

 

[Elvenhome21]

I really dislike tilt beds. Two guys i used to race with had them and it always seemed like it was a pain to load the cars (gravity tilt). When I drove the wrecker at the track I had to load there car on backwards one night and the bed kept wanting to flip down everytime I backed the wrecker up.

But I really want to keep the weight down as much as possible so I want to keep it to a single frame rail instead of a stacked. Plus I really want to try the air suspension route.

 

[CNGsaves]

Thus far only considering steel construction??

I've seen some awful nice aluminum trailers but you're talking big bucks for custom built aluminum. If you're great tig welder and have access to cheap box aluminum, you could build a super lightweight trailer!

 

[383 240z]

Long winch control cables are easy. Every decent winch manufacturer will sell you a replacement controller end, take that and open up the hand held part and run whatever length of wire you want, I used a 25' grounded extension cord for mine (simple 3 wire winch) you can buy 5 conductor for the fancy winches. If your running a Warn winch, or if you can figure out basic wiring, you can use this: http://www.4wd.com/Jeep-Winches-Jee...m.aspx?t_c=18&t_s=124&t_pt=8465&t_pn=WAR76080 Keith

 

[Elvenhome21]

Aluminum is way out of the price range Im willing to spend. Im hoping i can keep the cost under 2000 for frame, axles and decking.

 

[madosta]

That looks like a taildragger for sure!

 

[koditten]

I agree that the gravity tilt bed trailers are a pain. Mine are hydraulic lift. You can load a car with a winch without the trailer even hooked to the tow vehicle. A bonus is you can actually lift all 4 tires off the ground...with a car on the bed as well.

If anyone is interested, I have a partial build pictorial that I can post. It will take me a bit to find them. They are stored on "the cloud"

Later

KO

 

[Elvenhome21]

whats the reasoning for most of the built trailers having a double frame rail where the tongue goes back to the axle then they stack the deck frame rail on top of that. On tilt deck its makes sense but not on a flat trailer. It seems like its only done that way so you dont have a **** weld holding the tongue on, and a marginal increase in strength on the nose of the trailer. But it creates a bigger problem for hitch height and tall trucks.

I would have an issue using my reese hitch on this style tongue with the rail begin so much lower then the hitch.

 

[Strouty]

I agree that the gravity tilt bed trailers are a pain. Mine are hydraulic lift. You can load a car with a winch without the trailer even hooked to the tow vehicle. A bonus is you can actually lift all 4 tires off the ground...with a car on the bed as well.

If anyone is interested, I have a partial build pictorial that I can post. It will take me a bit to find them. They are stored on "the cloud"

Later

KO

INTERESTED!

 

[TruckMechanic]

INTERESTED!

Me too!

 

[Case IH]

Me 3!

 

[ADSR]

Subscribed.

 

[GShelton]

What they said ^^^^

 

[koditten]

Me and my big mouth

 

[koditten]

I'm not sure what you are asking. I'll try to infer what your question is. By stacking that tongue and running the "A" legs of the tongue back you are increasing the streangth of the tailer manny times. I can't think of an instance where you would **** weld the tongue to the frame. That is the most stressed part of a trailer.

The coupler on the trailer you show is actually an adjustable coupler. You can move it up and down to fit your tow vehicle. They are quite nice to use.

You are correct that you have to take into consideration the ride hight. Many things can be done obtain your desired height. Taller/shorter wheels, drop tube axles, taller spring hangers, shorter/longer equalizer links or taller steel. The planning stage is really quite imprortant.

I think we got off topic. Are we still leaning towards the air ride? My experience only involves spring ride trailers. I like them because they are 100% user repairable. Some of the other systems are not easily repaired. I'm not saying they are better or worse, its jsut what I prefer.
Later
Kirk

 

[alan camby]

I used to own a 20' H&H Speedloader trailer. Thought it was a slick setup.
If you have not seen one, you should check them out. The only downside is a low car might have problems with approach angle.
http://www.hhtrailer.com/Trailers/exSpeed/index.html


Currently I have a Loadtrail 16' tandem that does what i need a trailer for.

 

[Elvenhome21]

I'm not sure what you are asking. I'll try to infer what your question is. By stacking that tongue and running the "A" legs of the tongue back you are increasing the streangth of the tailer manny times. I can't think of an instance where you would **** weld the tongue to the frame. That is the most stressed part of a trailer.
I understand its the most stressed part but if you use 5" for the tongue and 5" for the trailer frame, why would you need to double the thickness to 10" by stacking them instead of using buttweld and fish plate. As long as the material used has enough strength for the axle to hitch point I dont see how double stacking them helps other then mostely adding weight

The coupler on the trailer you show is actually an adjustable coupler. You can move it up and down to fit your tow vehicle. They are quite nice to use.
I grabbed that pic without looking close at it because i seen a high hitch, not thinking it was adjustable

You are correct that you have to take into consideration the ride height.
Ride height and weight are primary considerations, by having less ride height the car has height to climb and approach angles are typically shallower. Weight is the second consideration, the superlite trailer me and dad made is super convenient where just one person can drag the trailer around the yard with ease. And even with a car loaded on it you can sometimes get away with just having a person jump/bounce on the tail of the trailer to unhook from a truck if you dont have a jack or something.

I think we got off topic. Are we still leaning towards the air ride?
Yes, all the way. Im going to go all out on this trailer, if it dont work its a fairly easy switch to convention axles as everything is bolt on for the air ride
Kirk

....

 

[koditten]

I used to own a 20' H&H Speedloader trailer. Thought it was a slick setup.
If you have not seen one, you should check them out. The only downside is a low car might have problems with approach angle.
http://www.hhtrailer.com/Trailers/exSpeed/index.html


Currently I have a Loadtrail 16' tandem that does what i need a trailer for.

Those H & H Al trailers are beautiful. I've checked them out in detail. The only worry I have is about potential galvanic corrosion. All the steel hardware is bolted to the Al. I did not see any evidence of gaskits to prevent the corrosion. Everything else on those trailers is top notch. I was amazed at how light they are. If someone wanted to save weight this is the way to go.

I've been looking and I haven't seen a trop tube axle offered for these yet. That would lower the deck and decrease the approch angle.

Thanks for posting the link.

KO

 

[Elvenhome21]

Heres a basic drawing just to see how the suspension is going to work and how much drop and clearances I need.

Any suggestions or issues anyone can see. The suspension parts are as close to the size of the dakota air ride as I can figure. Right now the trailer is 19" off the ground to get that geometry to work, But I really want to get it down to about 14-16". I can adjust the beaver tail if I need more scrape height.

 

[Case IH]

That's sweet!

 

[koditten]

Is that the final location of the axles? I don't know what you are hauling, is the weight going to be near the axles?

You could always go with smaller wheels. 13" would lower the ride. Mighrt be hard to find in a "d" or "e" rating tho.

Looks like it is taking shape. I wish I had the skills to draw plans ahead of time. I have no prints to work from.

Later

KO

 

[Strouty]

I agree that the gravity tilt bed trailers are a pain. Mine are hydraulic lift. You can load a car with a winch without the trailer even hooked to the tow vehicle. A bonus is you can actually lift all 4 tires off the ground...with a car on the bed as well.

If anyone is interested, I have a partial build pictorial that I can post. It will take me a bit to find them. They are stored on "the cloud"

Later

KO

Patiently waiting for details and pictures!

 

[koditten]

Patiently waiting for details and pictures!

Yo, Stouty:

I did post some pics. I didn't want to hi-jack the thread. I started my own thread.

I'll bump it for you.

Later

KO

 

[Elvenhome21]

I want to use truck tires for durability and weight rating. Axle location isn't definite yet but I figure it will be within about a foot. Is rather be to heavy on the tongue then to light. You can always crank the Reese bars tighter. But you can never seemingly load the car/truck any further forward when you most need it. Tire rack, toolbox or hauling a tractor or something goofy that has a lot of tail weight you benefit by having axles set back more. Plus I have the ability to raise the air pressure on the forward axle which will take weight off the tongue.

 

[koditten]

You get my endorsement for the use of LT tires. I use trailer tires and rims because I have to. I've got no problem saying that almost all the trailer tires out there are pretty much ****.

There are some radial trailer tires that I have been watching for a couple years that holding up pretty good. Time will tell.

Later

KO