OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
That's how it works in my world. Every damn time.
Bought Bridgeport Clone - Now Getting it Set Up for Basic Machining
- Thread starter bulletpruf
- Start date
That's how it works in my world. Every damn time.
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
Yeah, I really, really want something that's working now. Something non-working would have to be at a really, really good price point, and preferably nearby.
Thanks
Steve from Socal
Well-known member
I agree with the idea that unless a machine can be seen running its value is much less than a functioning one.
While that is true, I have made several major machine tool purchases where the machine was not running and question about condition were subjective. My Monarch 10EE I bought on ebay when it didn't meet reserve, it had a replacement drive and the pics were spoty at best. It turned out to be a real gem witha brand new drive and about every accessory in the Monarch catalog.
I bought a K&T 320TF and Thompson surface grinder from Beechcraft at auction. never seen or heard them run. The mill was right in the middle of their tool room and save for the green porch paint was pristeen. The surface grinder was next to another big surface grinder, an engineer at Beech told me thay had just rebuilt that machine last year. This was when Raytheon just bought Beech. I paid far more to rig and move these than I paid for them and the machines beat my best expectations by far.
I have had a few clinkers in the mix BUT, the ability to know what you are looking at is really key. In the OP case, having to rely on the seller is where the value goes out the window. A few key visuals are pock marks on surfaces, shinney spots on ways, dull spots on ways, smell, burnt or rancid. That said, the simple machines like a B-port have tons of support and parts. They are not the most rigid machines to start and plenty of wear can be overcome with careful use.
With all that said, I think the OP should get a good heavy duty drill press FIRST and foremost. Knowing the size toys he plays with I am suggesting a 17/8" min better a 20" It is one of the most versitle tools in every shop and a mill is no sub for a drill press.
While that is true, I have made several major machine tool purchases where the machine was not running and question about condition were subjective. My Monarch 10EE I bought on ebay when it didn't meet reserve, it had a replacement drive and the pics were spoty at best. It turned out to be a real gem witha brand new drive and about every accessory in the Monarch catalog.
I bought a K&T 320TF and Thompson surface grinder from Beechcraft at auction. never seen or heard them run. The mill was right in the middle of their tool room and save for the green porch paint was pristeen. The surface grinder was next to another big surface grinder, an engineer at Beech told me thay had just rebuilt that machine last year. This was when Raytheon just bought Beech. I paid far more to rig and move these than I paid for them and the machines beat my best expectations by far.
I have had a few clinkers in the mix BUT, the ability to know what you are looking at is really key. In the OP case, having to rely on the seller is where the value goes out the window. A few key visuals are pock marks on surfaces, shinney spots on ways, dull spots on ways, smell, burnt or rancid. That said, the simple machines like a B-port have tons of support and parts. They are not the most rigid machines to start and plenty of wear can be overcome with careful use.
With all that said, I think the OP should get a good heavy duty drill press FIRST and foremost. Knowing the size toys he plays with I am suggesting a 17/8" min better a 20" It is one of the most versitle tools in every shop and a mill is no sub for a drill press.
mattthemuppet
Well-known member
You’ll have to be patient picking up a good mill for a good price in central Texas. They do pop up occasionally, but you have to be VERY quick. No asking advice on forums, just go and buy it or it’ll be gone. It took me six or seven months to get my 6x26.
For the poster that said offer a grand for a BP, you’d be laughed out of the shop. I bet that mill sold within a day of being posted, if that
For the poster that said offer a grand for a BP, you’d be laughed out of the shop. I bet that mill sold within a day of being posted, if that
alfadan
Well-known member
On the plus side, think of the content for your channel!
A whole series on cleaning and fixing up your new machine.
A whole series on cleaning and fixing up your new machine.
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
Not lacking on content these days; have 4 or so videos that I need to edit and post. Just short on bandwidth.
Thanks
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
The Enco has been sold.
Went to look at a bulldozer today; if I end up with it, that will deplete my disposable cash until the money tree is replenished.
If I don't end up with the dozer, I found something not too far away that would be easy enough to transport and seems like a good deal.
Still leery of trying to buying a 3,000# lump 3-6 hours away and then hauling it home and unloading it without maiming anyone. Also not confident that I know enough to fully inspect said machine before I buy it. Those who have followed my "free" Caterpillar 977 fiasco...errr....build.... know that I tend to view new projects through rose-colored glasses...
Went to look at a bulldozer today; if I end up with it, that will deplete my disposable cash until the money tree is replenished.
If I don't end up with the dozer, I found something not too far away that would be easy enough to transport and seems like a good deal.
Still leery of trying to buying a 3,000# lump 3-6 hours away and then hauling it home and unloading it without maiming anyone. Also not confident that I know enough to fully inspect said machine before I buy it. Those who have followed my "free" Caterpillar 977 fiasco...errr....build.... know that I tend to view new projects through rose-colored glasses...
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isb cornbinder
Well-known member
I do not remember the brand of my small milling machine. It looks very much like a Precision Mathews. I like my mill. I find it is well built and accurate enough.
IndyGarage
Well-known member
I just did a Craigslist search for 100 miles from San Antonio and found a dozen milling machines for sale, anywhere from $500 to $5000.
Yes Bridgeports seemed high, but there were a couple in the 1000-1500 range. But the point is there are several available.
I've bought several over the years and never paid more than $1200. In order to get a bargain on a good machine you need to look every day and when one comes up go get it immediately. Sometimes you have to buy some other stuff with it and sell the extra stuff off. Also it doesn't hurt to offer to trade something of value for one - car, truck, motorcycle.
Yes Bridgeports seemed high, but there were a couple in the 1000-1500 range. But the point is there are several available.
I've bought several over the years and never paid more than $1200. In order to get a bargain on a good machine you need to look every day and when one comes up go get it immediately. Sometimes you have to buy some other stuff with it and sell the extra stuff off. Also it doesn't hurt to offer to trade something of value for one - car, truck, motorcycle.
RoninB4
Well-known member
-Moving a mill isn't as scary as the disaster potential might suggest. Flip the head so it's resting on some wood on the mill table to lower the center of gravity and lock all the table/knee locks. Rent a drop bed trailer from a rental place (under $100) and use an engine hoist/cherry picker. You can also rent one for about $35 for the day if you don't have one. A couple of ratchet straps and it's ready to ride. Moving one across the floor can be done with 3-4 pipes under the mill and 1-2 guys can easily move it. I've done this by myself several times.
A standard Bridgeport is only 2,000 lbs. and no big deal to transport if you work slowly/carefully and don't push at the top. It just seems that way the first time.
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
I did a Craigslist search a few days ago and just re-did it just to make sure I wasn't missing something. The only thing that popped up that I hadn't seen before was the Bridgeport for $1,100 that didn't appear to be operational. I'll check with the owner just to make sure.
Thanks
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
That's helpful info. I didn't think about renting a drop deck trailer; had planned to put it on my car hauler trailer and that has a fairly high deck.
I did do a bit of research and did see the recommendation to flip the head and use pipes to roll it.
Thanks for the input.
Scott
IndyGarage
Well-known member
I searched on "milling", and set it to within 100 miles of San Antonio. The cheapest one came up with a picture of another mill, but said he had that and a Bridgeport. You have to do some digging to find folks who don't know how to work Craigslist.
If I'm looking for something I search 5 times a day, not every few days. You will not get a bargain looking every few days.
RoninB4
Well-known member
HGR up in Dallas/Ft. Worth has:
hgrinc.com
From an auction:
www.bidspotter.com
www.bidspotter.com
I also looked at Craigslist in SA but didn't find much. You do have to be actively looking at more than one source than CL and be willing to travel. It may take several weeks or just contact a machinery dealer. I've dealt with HGR in Cleveland (Ohio) and don't find them anyh more honest/dishonest than any other machine dealer.
Used Enco 1980 Enco Vertical Milling Machine For Sale
Used Enco 1980 Enco Vertical Milling Machine For Sale
hgrinc.com
From an auction:
Bridgeport Series 1 Vertical Milling Machines
Bridgeport Series 1 Vertical Milling Machines Table Size: 9.0" x 42.0", X- Axis Travel: 30.0", Y-Axis Travel: 12.0", Knee Travel: 16.0", Quill Travel: 5.0", ...
www.bidspotter.com
Bridgeport Series 1 Vertical Milling Machines
Bridgeport Series 1 Vertical Milling Machines Table Size: 9.0" x 42.0", X- Axis Travel: 30.0", Y-Axis Travel: 12.0", Knee Travel: 16.0", Quill Travel: 5.0", ...
www.bidspotter.com
I also looked at Craigslist in SA but didn't find much. You do have to be actively looking at more than one source than CL and be willing to travel. It may take several weeks or just contact a machinery dealer. I've dealt with HGR in Cleveland (Ohio) and don't find them anyh more honest/dishonest than any other machine dealer.
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
HGR up in Dallas/Ft. Worth has:
Used Enco 1980 Enco Vertical Milling Machine For Sale
Used Enco 1980 Enco Vertical Milling Machine For Sale
From an auction:
Bridgeport Series 1 Vertical Milling Machines
Bridgeport Series 1 Vertical Milling Machines Table Size: 9.0" x 42.0", X- Axis Travel: 30.0", Y-Axis Travel: 12.0", Knee Travel: 16.0", Quill Travel: 5.0", ...
Bridgeport Series 1 Vertical Milling Machines
Bridgeport Series 1 Vertical Milling Machines Table Size: 9.0" x 42.0", X- Axis Travel: 30.0", Y-Axis Travel: 12.0", Knee Travel: 16.0", Quill Travel: 5.0", ...
I also looked at Craigslist in SA but didn't find much. You do have to be actively looking at more than one source than CL and be willing to travel. It may take several weeks or just contact a machinery dealer. I've dealt with HGR in Cleveland (Ohio) and don't find them anyh more honest/dishonest than any other machine dealer.
Thanks. Those are affordable. Just wish they weren't so far away.
I'm still worried about the footprint, too, of course, and dealing with a VFD if needed.
slowtwitch73
Well-known member
If your regional to HGR that's the way to go...
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
Buying from a place like HGR should make loading up a lot easier.
IndyGarage
Well-known member
"If I'm looking for something I search 5 times a day, not every few days. You will not get a bargain looking every few days."
I don't like to quote myself, but I guess I didn't explain this well. Real bargains show up on Craigslist every day. Folks that just want to get rid of stuff fast do sell it at bargain prices.
The problem is that folks are looking to buy bargains all the time, and those bargains last just a few hours before someone buys them. You have to be at the front of the line.
When I was actively buying stuff (I'm not right now, I have enough projects lined up for several years), I would set up my searches in craigslist, bookmark them or just leave the tabs open on my browser and just return to the bookmarks every couple hours, refreshing and only looking at new stuff that was posted. It only took a couple minutes, and I found almost anything I wanted at a good price.
Several times I would run out and buy something that I thought was a screaming deal only to find the same thing two days later at a better price. I would go buy that one too and flip it.
I don't like to quote myself, but I guess I didn't explain this well. Real bargains show up on Craigslist every day. Folks that just want to get rid of stuff fast do sell it at bargain prices.
The problem is that folks are looking to buy bargains all the time, and those bargains last just a few hours before someone buys them. You have to be at the front of the line.
When I was actively buying stuff (I'm not right now, I have enough projects lined up for several years), I would set up my searches in craigslist, bookmark them or just leave the tabs open on my browser and just return to the bookmarks every couple hours, refreshing and only looking at new stuff that was posted. It only took a couple minutes, and I found almost anything I wanted at a good price.
Several times I would run out and buy something that I thought was a screaming deal only to find the same thing two days later at a better price. I would go buy that one too and flip it.
RoninB4
Well-known member
The footprint is just one of those things you deal with. Some folks construct a heavy duty cradle with castors to roll it in/out. I've done that with my 1200 lb. surface plate, 400 lb. oak work bench, and would do so for the BP if need be.
The VFD isn't any more of a challenge than the learning curve. I didn't know anything about it either until reading up on it and following directions/advice. Plenty of people do this.
Far away? How many choices do you have staying local? Local sellers here thought they had gold plated machines and could take advantage of those not willing to drive. I drove several hours for almost all my machinery and don't regret a minute of it to get what I wanted at a fair price.
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
If I was 100% convinced that I was going to get a Bridgeport and I really needed one, I'd probably search more often. It would also help if I didn't have a full-time job that tends to require a fair amount of concentration.
Thanks
RoninB4
Well-known member
-This cannot be overstated. Much like apartments, cars, houses, and other high traffic items the best buys are only on the market for a matter of hours before someone else snaps it up. I have landed on and also missed deals by minutes/hours when I was in the market for a high traffic item. You have to be ready to roll or all you'll find is the leftovers nobody else wanted. It's like getting to the lunch truck at work 15 minutes late.....
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
I could make it work if I had to. Just a fair amount of Tetris needed.
If setting up a Bridgeport was the only thing on my plate, I wouldn't worry about the VFD purchase and learning curve. But I've got a 90% done 1991 F350 crew cab dually to finish, a 1972 Alfa Romeo track day toy to finish and sell, and a Caterpillar 977 that needs serious work, a 20' x 50' shop that's a complete disaster (still moving in and getting organized), and that's all in line in front of a mill, drill, or whatever I end up buying. That's in addition to a full-time job, husband and parent duties, etc. All that to say that I really don't want to sign up for something that's going to be fairly involved.
My concern is that right now, I don't know enough about inspecting a Bridgeport or similar mill, so there's a decent chance that I'd spend 10 hours on the road for nothing, or, even worse, 10 hours on the road to overpay for a POS.
Thanks
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
Well, I've been buying stuff online pretty much ever since Al Gore invented the internet, so I'm familiar with how this works.
Thanks
IndyGarage
Well-known member
There's your problem, you put having a job in front of the stuff you really want to do...
I'm just joking, I just spent 9 hours straight on video calls today.
slowtwitch73
Well-known member
Dude, you need a Bport a million times more than a clapped out dozer.
bimmer1980
Well-known member
Not trying to be difficult here.... But maybe now is not the time for a Bridgeport ( or any branded mill). If you want to drill holes, maybe a good mag drill and some plates or angle plates may be sufficient for the repair work you need to do....
As classic garage journal, a lot of people are talking up a larger piece of equipment... And candidly, I'm not hearing a specific driving need for the full milling machine capability.
Sounds as if you have plenty on your plate, and that's fine.
I do have a variable speed 2 HP Bridgeport. I did need to rebuild part of the head. Primarily the bushings on the variable speed drive and a couple of bearings. That added about $250 to the $1200 I paid for it. I added a power deed to the X axis. I also have a rotary phase converter for the mill, lathe, iron worker, belt sander, band saw and drill press.
Moving a Bridgeport is not hard with a forklift. It gets a little harder without one, but it can be done. I moved mine by taking the head and the ram off and moving the base separately (with the table assembly on it). This was all hand loaded at the guys place. Once I got home, it was easier as I had bought a forklift prior to that. I believe I have a thread on here somewhere about moving my Bridgeport.
A simple slow speed drill press may be all you need. The floor space is no joke with a Bridgeport. Depends how you want to justify your usable square footage in the shop......
As classic garage journal, a lot of people are talking up a larger piece of equipment... And candidly, I'm not hearing a specific driving need for the full milling machine capability.
Sounds as if you have plenty on your plate, and that's fine.
I do have a variable speed 2 HP Bridgeport. I did need to rebuild part of the head. Primarily the bushings on the variable speed drive and a couple of bearings. That added about $250 to the $1200 I paid for it. I added a power deed to the X axis. I also have a rotary phase converter for the mill, lathe, iron worker, belt sander, band saw and drill press.
Moving a Bridgeport is not hard with a forklift. It gets a little harder without one, but it can be done. I moved mine by taking the head and the ram off and moving the base separately (with the table assembly on it). This was all hand loaded at the guys place. Once I got home, it was easier as I had bought a forklift prior to that. I believe I have a thread on here somewhere about moving my Bridgeport.
A simple slow speed drill press may be all you need. The floor space is no joke with a Bridgeport. Depends how you want to justify your usable square footage in the shop......
You have said that you want something you can use right away if that's the case buy a good drill press. The tooling and measuring equipment you need to use a mill can exceed the cost of a used machine. Compare the cost of a drill bit verses a end mill. For someone without some experience or training doing good work on a mill will be difficult.
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
I do have a good mag drill already.
That's par for the course here, and I'm often guilty of doing the same thing.
Agreed.
A lathe is on the shopping list, too, but I may end up with a smaller one that I can use in the home garage for now.
I do need a forklift for the shop, but I just don't have the room for it.
I'm sure I could get by with one, but I suspect that once I get a mill set up and get comfortable with using it, I'll find all sorts of use for it.
Yep. It's pretty crowded in there with a Cat 977 taking up most of the space. This pic is a few months old; I have since moved in most of my tools, toolboxes, air compressor, parts, and my 91 F350 crew cab dually. Not much room left.
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
There's a generic mill/drill near me that I'm thinking about picking up. It's not cheap at $1,500, but it comes with a bunch of tooling - 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", and 3/4" collets, drill chuck, Bridgeport boring head, 3" vise, insert face mill, and second face mill holder. Recently taken apart, cleaned, and oiled.
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
Dude, you need a Bport a million times more than a clapped out dozer.
The IH TD-7C? That thing is mint! I hit the seller with a really low offer; I hope he doesn't accept it.
I agree 100%. I have a Jet JMD18 and although it can handle all I throw at it, losing spindle orientation each time I raise or lower the head is a real nuisance.
RoninB4
Well-known member
OP- You may have enough on your plate already without loading machine tool purchases onto it. Not knowing, but guessing, at the scope of the projects you've listed/shown tells me that a decent mill can/will be a big help that will widen the scope of your capabilities. However, the pursuit/searching for a good buy may very well mean taking time away from greater priorities (wife, children, job). You've identified a use for machine tools (mill, lathe) but perhaps now is not the time to seek them lest something go off-track with your personal life. Sure, the machinery may help greatly to finish some of the projects but the dynamics of a marriage, children, and a job are constantly changing and all it takes is one moment of distraction to set-up a chain of events that can end in disaster. When I was earnestly shopping for machinery I also had a relationship, job, projects, and property to keep up with. The time spent searching just about made me say to h*ll with it. Within a few weeks I had the jig borer, BP, and the surface grinder just about fall into my lap. You may experience similar circumstances if you use the time reading the market and educating yourself about evaluating machinery. Just a suggestion to make it easier on you.
I'd also caution you about considering a lathe purchase. The tiny 7x12 lathes from China are ok for polishing pins/shafts or making small bushings the size of your thumb. Larger work is possible but they're rather ill-suited for larger work unless you get a used one for dirt cheap. I have one and rarely use it, the German lathe gets used 99% of the time by choice. Ask questions, evaluate, then decide. Hope this helps.
I'd also caution you about considering a lathe purchase. The tiny 7x12 lathes from China are ok for polishing pins/shafts or making small bushings the size of your thumb. Larger work is possible but they're rather ill-suited for larger work unless you get a used one for dirt cheap. I have one and rarely use it, the German lathe gets used 99% of the time by choice. Ask questions, evaluate, then decide. Hope this helps.
slowtwitch73
Well-known member
If you're thinking about doing dozer work with the mill, skip anything R8 and go bigger.. often times cheaper too as you get rid of alot of the garage tinkerer riff raff.
Firebrick43
Well-known member
I would caution against any round column mill drill. You will eventually run out of quill and need to lower the head. Because it will not register the same after lowering the head you will end up screwed or having to reregister your work very carefully to continue.There's a generic mill/drill near me that I'm thinking about picking up. It's not cheap at $1,500, but it comes with a bunch of tooling - 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", and 3/4" collets, drill chuck, Bridgeport boring head, 3" vise, insert face mill, and second face mill holder. Recently taken apart, cleaned, and oiled.
Unfortunately older mill drills with vertical ways are non existent, seem to be a thing in the last 15 years or so.
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
Yeah, I'm getting pulled in a lot of different directions now. I think the smart course of action is to start off with something that will allow me to ease into machining. Since I already have a drill press (albeit at the home garage), a mill drill seems to make more sense. If I run across something more capable (i.e., a Bridgeport or similar), I should be in better shape for inspecting it, knowing whether I really need it or not, etc.
I'm thinking of something in the 12 x 36 range.
Thanks
86turbodsl
Well-known member
Drop deck trailer. I've done this a few times now. If you don't have a forklift, you can either rent one on your end or buy a cheap pallet jack. I've brought a pallet jack with me, had the seller set the mill or whatever down on 4x4's, lagged the machine to the 4x4's for the ride/stability, and simply rolled off the drop deck at home with the pallet jack. Lots of ways to skin that cat.
86turbodsl
Well-known member
HGR has been awesome to me. Like a candy store. Only 4 hrs away.
86turbodsl
Well-known member
That is quite literally the elephant in the room.I do have a good mag drill already.
That's par for the course here, and I'm often guilty of doing the same thing.
Agreed.
A lathe is on the shopping list, too, but I may end up with a smaller one that I can use in the home garage for now.
I do need a forklift for the shop, but I just don't have the room for it.
I'm sure I could get by with one, but I suspect that once I get a mill set up and get comfortable with using it, I'll find all sorts of use for it.
Yep. It's pretty crowded in there with a Cat 977 taking up most of the space. This pic is a few months old; I have since moved in most of my tools, toolboxes, air compressor, parts, and my 91 F350 crew cab dually. Not much room left.
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
Need to stop by next time I'm near Fort Worth - about 5 hours - but I'm there periodically. https://hgrinc.com/?page=4&location=Ft.%20Worth%20TX&sort_by=price_desc
RoninB4
Well-known member
-This mill/drill may work just fine for popping holes in something but the boring head will be severely limited in use due to the automatic down-feed (if there is one). boring a hole to size often calls for different down-feed rates, this mill may not have or only has ONE rate. This feed rate affects the finish and possibly the accuracy of the hole. A boring head is a good piece of tooling to have but it may not work well with this machine. A BP at least has 3 different feed rates, sometimes wish it had more. The previous post about changing the height of the head to accommodate taller pieces is spot on, happens quite a bit when boring or just changing from drilling to milling too. At a cost of $1500 I'd suggest getting a used BP or clone. As for the limitations of R8 tooling working on the dozer, it can take up to 750 lbs. on the table if you're careful about load balancing. There are ways to machine tall/large pieces on a BP without it being mounted directly on the table. A larger, more appropriate mill for larger work is NOT in your budget or in your best interests for what you're doing. JMO
A 12x36 lathe will be much more useful to you. The controls (handles) will also NOT be the tiny/clumsy things sized for small women. The ergonomics of machine controls make a difference, to me anyway, in ease of operation. Bumping the dials accidently because of space limitations demands constant awareness of where your hands are.