Above 1200 Sq/FT Eastern Washington Workshop

[slodat]

Now for some exciting news.. New machine day(s) are right around the corner. As Building 2 continues to take shape, I will be moving the sheet metal and bus fabrication into the building. There's still some work to do before it's ready for machinery, but it's taking shape.

This should be the first to arrive:


As far as metal wide belt sanders go, this is a single head machine. They get quite fancy (and expensive) with multiple heads, and some even work the top and bottom of the part at the same time. I did opt for their wet dust collector as shown in the photo. This should dramatically improve my metal finishing times as well as make the parts that much more consistent. AND, parts will be ready for powder coat after a quick once over to remove dust and degrease.

This one has a much longer lead time.. ten weeks plus travel time.. these are photos they sent of an oven they had just completed.





The oven's working dimensions will be 4' wide, 6' tall, 8' deep. The application booth is made by the same company as the oven. They also made the spray booth I've had in the main shop for several years. Great company to work with. I went with an Electron E-Coat +3 Pro gun.

More to follow obviously. And a lot of work!

 

[Jblount3]

I have been reading through 77 pages of this build for the last few nights and all I have to say is wow! so much info, most of it over my head haha I do think green hinges and a 3d printer are in my future though. My father in law owns a machine shop and it interests me to learn some of the basics. Both shops look great and that town is lucky to have you cleaning up and using some sweet old buildings.

 

[slodat]

A few updates… had an opportunity to chat with Pat about some sheet metal challenges I was experiencing. This led me down a path of looking at sheet metal CAD options. I’ve settled on SolidWorks. I’m really excited to get going on that path.

My simpler parts turn out great with Fusion. This afternoon’s haul:


Lots of 11ga brackets. Received installed photos of some parts I posted about in here a while back. The end user already had the enclosure. My client provided the breaker. I designed all the brackets, bus, insulators, etc. Turned out great. This is a temporary power skid with lots of cam lock connectors.





The client, end user, and I am really happy with how it all went together. A few lessons learned and a couple details I’d do differently, but and overall big success. This was designed in CAD and shipped out. I did not have it in my shop to check fitment.

I make the case foam for a friend’s product line. Another buddy of mine makes the product. He saw the case foam and asked me to make some foam for when he sends raw parts to anodizing and then to his (our) client. It’s made to fit a USPS large flat rate box.



Here’s a couple of the parts to illustrate what’s going on.



I spent a lot of time last year dialing in my laser settings for the foam. It was well worth the effort. I’ve been getting some foam job shop work. I really like how it turns out. And it’s soo satisfying.

Got some tracking info today. I can not wait to get the sander. It is going to be a huge productivity and quality of life update.

Thanks for following along on this wild journey with me!

 

[Finallygotit]

So happy for you Steven! It just keeps getting better and better.

 

[Jayman17]

You have created quite the nice business for yourself there! Seems like your contacts from your job opened up opportunities for your business? Either way, I'm happy for you. Really like your ambition and drive to learn how to improve your processes. Congrats to you!

 

[rvieceli]

Opportunities come to folks that do things the right way and care about the results. Steven, you are killing it. Congratulations.

Ron

 

[slodat]

I have been reading through 77 pages of this build for the last few nights and all I have to say is wow! so much info, most of it over my head haha I do think green hinges and a 3d printer are in my future though. My father in law owns a machine shop and it interests me to learn some of the basics. Both shops look great and that town is lucky to have you cleaning up and using some sweet old buildings.

Thank you for taking the time to work your way through my thread. It has definitely grown into something I didn't originally anticipate.

So happy for you Steven! It just keep getting better and better.

Thanks, Dan! It is a wild ride for sure.

You have created quite the nice business for yourself there! Seems like your contacts from your job opened up opportunities for your business? Either way, I'm happy for you. Really like your ambition and drive to learn how to improve your processes. Congrats to you!

Thank you! I've found business is all about relationships. I'm grateful for all of it.

Opportunities come to folks that do things the right way and care about the results. Steven, you are killing it. Congratulations.

Ron

Ron, thank you. I've also made my share (or more than my share) of mistakes. Some truly regrettable.

I really appreciate the conversation on here. It's a lot of fun to share what's going on in the shop. Thanks everyone.

 

[MadeByMiller]

When you get going in Solidworks it will be fun and interesting to talk to you about your experiences coming from Fusion. I think that's the right choice vs. Alibre that I think you said you were considering?

 

[slodat]

When you get going in Solidworks it will be fun and interesting to talk to you about your experiences coming from Fusion. I think that's the right choice vs. Alibre that I think you said you were considering?

Correct, I took a hard look at Alibre. It came down to the fact that there is such a big user base for SolidWorks. It's largely the industry standard. I'm excited to get going with it. I'm only transitioning some of the sheet metal to SolidWorks.. at least to start with.

No amount of CAD will make up for the dummy running the machines. The model:



Painted part is the failed attempt. Raw steel is the better attempt





The embarrasing part is I make a bend drawing and take it to the brake. Just a late evening brainfart. All in a days work.

 

[zanyad]

Nice! I have SOLIDWORKS here at work, but have barely delved into sheet metal since most of our parts are prismatic.

 

[lilscorpion]

Correct, I took a hard look at Alibre. It came down to the fact that there is such a big user base for SolidWorks. It's largely the industry standard. I'm excited to get going with it. I'm only transitioning some of the sheet metal to SolidWorks.. at least to start with.

No amount of CAD will make up for the dummy running the machines. The model:



Painted part is the failed attempt. Raw steel is the better attempt





The embarrasing part is I make a bend drawing and take it to the brake. Just a late evening brainfart. All in a days work.

Sweet! Are the slots plasma cut or cut another way?

 

[slodat]

Sweet! Are the slots plasma cut or cut another way?

All plasma cut. That is 11ga (0.1196”) HRPO.

 

[lilscorpion]

All plasma cut. That is 11ga (0.1196”) HRPO.

Looks really good.

 

[slodat]

The CNC journey started a little over seven years ago with the co2 laser and router. It’s wild to look back on it and see where it has taken me. I enjoyed a 30 year career in progressively higher end electrical work. I was good at it, and truly longed to spend my time making things. The CAD and CNC stuff was what I needed to extract what’s in my head and turn it into something I can put in my hand. I truly love it.

These days the router is used almost exclusively for machining GPO3 (resin impregnated fiber glass used for insulation and arc barriers). The machine has been rock solid since the Centroid control retrofit. Occasionally it has made some aluminum sheet parts. The CNC plasma does not leave a nice edge on aluminum. Client had an aluminum part this week.



It makes an awful mess, but the shop vac makes quick work of cleanup.

My adventures in sheet metal continue to be both extremely rewarding, and a huge challenge. I suppose it looks easy.. how hard can it be, right? Cut it, form, and finish.

HA!

I was good at math, silence, geometry, etc in school and college. Love that stuff. Use it everyday. AND, sometimes sheet metal somehow erases anything I have known!

I am self taught. I pay tuition on that education often.


This is a coupon to see how the bends will look on the brake.

This client sends step files of their parts and I make them. It’s usually only one or two of a given part. I import it into fusion, unfold, cut, build a bend drawing from the flat pattern, and go.

WHELP.. trigonometry is still a thing! I’m sure there’s a simple thumb rule that completely eluded me last night. At first, but I got it.



It’s obvious the flanges can’t be longer than the base flange. It’s that it’s not always obvious when I’m churning through parts in CAD that I miss it at times.

All in a days work and a little “tuition” to the university of self-taught.

 

[rvieceli]

Steven my son works as a fabricator for a guy that does a lot of brass and aluminum. They cut the plate on the water jet. Here’s a pic of a piece of half inch aluminum after he recalibrated the thing and got it dialed in. Does a very nice job.




Ron

 

[slodat]

Ron- a water jet would be ideal for this type of aluminum, and the GPO3 sheet work. With that said, the router does a great job at a significantly lower cost of entry. That edge quality is very nice!

 

[slodat]

Had a client needing a custom rejection plate. They were using a higher rated breaker in a lower rated cell.

Their sample part, and another I had on hand:


Mounts on the breaker like so:


The small pins are part of an interlock. In this particular case, they are installing a higher rated breaker, so it’s not causing a problem with regard to interrupting capability.

After the first operation:


The final part:






I noodled on different ways to make it for longer than I expected. When I was drawing the part, it dawned on me I could just make it out of a solid chunk. If worked well.

The first of the new equipment arrived late in the day.



Looks and feels like a very well made system.

 

[4 FN 27]

WHELP.. trigonometry is still a thing! I’m sure there’s a simple thumb rule that completely eluded me last night. At first, but I got it.

It’s obvious the flanges can’t be longer than the base flange. It’s that it’s not always obvious when I’m churning through parts in CAD that I miss it at times.

All in a days work and a little “tuition” to the university of self-taught.

A couple of tricks for when Geometry, Physics and Tooling clash...





These are parts we made. The Designer/Engineer wanted to know how we were going to make them. For the part shown in your pic you would not need the Custom Punch. You would just need to get a European Flattening Punch. The Bottom can be a 2-V Die turned on it side with the Bottom Tool Holders pulled.

Trying to save you a few classes and a little tuition money!!!

 

[slodat]

Pat- thank you for the visual references! I was aware of the concept, but had not seen it spelled out with that amount of detail. Very cool!

A flattening punch is on the radar. Great tip on turning the 2V on its side. I had not thought of that!

I have a project coming that will require louvers. Been looking at louver tooling. I think I’m going with this setup, with their Euro punch adapter and the bottom tang machined off on the die. My thought is I can (obviously) use the X axis for placement in the depth of the part. I figured I can use a clamp type top on the die to align what would be the Z, since I don’t have CNC control of that.

 

[slodat]

At the suggestion of @lilscorpion I went looking for a wall oven so I can start testing different powders for color match, etc. There was a free wall oven on Craigslist, so I headed out yesterday afternoon. It's a take out from a remodel. Looks to be in great working order.



The oven has a really slick roll out shelf on drawer slides. I removed a bit of the support structure of the fixed portion so I could hang parts from the moving portion and slide it in. Worked slick.





This is definitely a very temporary thing. Will be nice to see some powder flow though. The big oven is still two months out. While I was over there, I stopped by a good buddies shop. We worked up a trade for his partially disassembled Wilton 600S.



He had started to take it apart to clean it up and paint it. He *thinks* he has the missing parts at work. Even if he doesn't, I'll be okay with the deal. I traded an old engine stand for the vise! It had a broken swivel base. I found a new replacement and got that ordered today. While looking for parts online, I disassembled the rest of the way to help ID the vise. It's a post 1998 600S. In VERY good condition.





Is this August 2011 or November 2008? I'm thinking the former.



It needs the two roll pins that hold the nut assembly in place, the rear dust cover, and the front U-shaped retainer. I'll hold off ordering or making any parts until I see what he has on his bench at work. Really happy to have a Wilton after all these years of looking. I have no plans to paint it. There's a lot of original pain still on it, and it will clean up nice. More importantly, it will be a great addition to the shop.

 

[slodat]

The excitement of having the powder gun in the shop got me. Wired up a plug on the oven and set one of the HF powder containers under the pickup.


The oven has a convection function. Seemed to do a great job.






These two parts were sanded with the 80 grit sanding nets I use for paint prep. Both were rejects. I have a small bin of reject parts for experimenting with paint and now powder. I did nothing but spray the powder and bake. I'm really impressed by it all. The larger bracket has some irregularities in the finish/coverage. Pretty sure it's at least partially cause by a lack of clarity on how the manufacturer wants things grounded. I'll call the rep tomorrow to find out. All in all really cool to have a powder coated part.

 

[slodat]

It took no time to realize how good powder coating is going to be for the work we're doing in the shop. Found an oven that was custom made for someone, and then they changed their mind. Got a great deal and it's ready to ship. Will be nice to have the big oven as well as this smaller oven. Powder is on the way. This is fun stuff!

 

[lilscorpion]

No way back now!

 

[slodat]

Lots going on in the shop lately. The wide belt sander and wet dust collector arrived. Looks like a nice machine. We got in uncrated and in the shop. Forklift sure is nice for stuff like this.




Turns out the manufacturer had a supply issue with the fittings. They sent a male coupler instead of a female:




They were great about it and got the right couplers in the mail the day we brought it to their attention. Really happy with the customer service from Apex. Waiting on the paint in Building 2 before we get the sander setup. We have quite a bit of client work going on. Really hoping to fit the paint prep in before the weekend so I can paint while the guys are off over the weekend. Yes.. there are guys in addition to me now.

The sheet metal parts throughput is continuing to increase. I felt pretty good about the closed corners on this part:


It's what the client wanted and they were happy. So, that makes me happy. Part is 11ga (0.1196").

I was forming some large (for us) parts at the brake last night and snapped these photos. This cover is almost 36" x 48". I forgot to snap photos of the packaging. It's pretty cool figuring out how to package multiple parts like this so they survive the UPS ride.



The wide-angle lens on the phone distorts things a bit. It also captures what's going on.


More of the closed corners. This part is 14ga (0.0747") CRS.

Got this today... Nothing like starting the learning curve ALL over again.



As daunting of a task as learned another CAD system sounds and feels, I'm not really worried about it. SolidWorks is only for sheet metal for now. Fusion has left me wanting nothing on the solid modeling, machining, and CAM side of things. I will continue to use it for CAM on the plasma. Time will tell if other aspects of operations will move to SW. For now, I don't think so. An additional seat of Fusion is $650/yr. SW is 6 times that.

Received quite a bit of powder from Columbia Coatings. Waiting to do more test parts until this weekend. The small oven might make it by the weekend. I sure hope it does.

 

[Finallygotit]

Steven, I kept seeing this word "we" and was wondering but then you explained it. Congratulations! I truly love to see small businesses like yours flourish. Your business should flourish extremely well given your determination for quality and on time delivery.

 

[rmack898]

What Dan said.

 

[slodat]

Dan and Mac, thank you. I appreciate your cheering me on and continuing to follow along on my journey and contribute to the conversation here. It has been a really wild ride over the years. I am beyond grateful for it all.

 

[rvieceli]

Steven congrats on having enough business to need help. Great to hear.

My son works as a fabricator/machinist for a guy locally. He’s using Solidworks for pretty much everything CNC. He has said there are a lot of resources to help learn but still a learning curve.

Ron

 

[Finallygotit]

SolidWorks is a great tool. There are so many functions that I doubt anyone would ever use them all, and we used to use it extensively. What I don't like about SW is the maintenance cost. Man it is expensive.

 

[slodat]

Ron - Thank you!

Dan - you are absolutely right. The cost is significant. Desault is doing all they can to get folks to use their SolidWorks Connected offering. It's a software as a service version of SW. That is what I have. I can buy a seat of Fusion and the manufacturing extension for less than a seat of SW. And the SW seat does not have any CAM. As I mentioned previously, I'm happy with Fusion for solid modeling and CAM. SW is just for sheet metal. For now at least.

 

[Bob Heine]

Steven, I think having both Fusion and SolidWorks has its benefits. If/when you get a request that requires either one, you'll be ready. Sometimes the extra expense lets you bid jobs you might have had to pass on. When I worked as a consultant for America Online I had to have multiple Windows systems as well as an Apple Macintosh in my home office. It was all deductible business expenses (along with the Corvette) so a little easier to swallow.

 

[zanyad]

It was all deductible business expenses (along with the Corvette)

How did you manage that???

 

[SilverJimmy]

For quick zips to CompUSA a Vette would be mandatory! Must get the “You’ve got Mail” voice back up ASAP!!!

 

[SilverJimmy]

That was your voice…. right?!

 

[slodat]

Bob - definitely understand your point. My reasoning is a little different because my business model is different than a typical job shop. SolidWorks, for me, is just so I can use its sheet metal compensation features. I design all of the parts I make, with one exception. I have a client that uses Creo. They export step files and I use them in Fusion. The thing that came up that got me wanting SolidWorks was the bend compensation limitations in Fusion.

“Getting” SolidWorks was just a first step in what I’m sure will be a long process of learning, testing, and trying. Applied some of what I’ve learned from Pat today. Namely, switched from the 19mm V opening to the 12mm today on the 14ga CRS parts. This material is from a new supplier. I knew I would need to do a work up with it. Made for a great time to change the die as well.

The smaller V opening will tighten up the bend radius. The 12mm is still a little big for the 14ga, but it’s what I have on hand. For now.

I spent most of the day dialing things in. First the plasma so I could get the blanks cut on size, with minimal dross and edge angle. Then it finally clicked how to bridge the gap between the Fusion solid model, the flat pattern, and what I get off the plasma and brake. I settled on using the very common 0.44 K factor. Then I did test bends and determined my bend line needs to be 0.05” less than what Fusion calls out. Lastly, I tweaked the bend radius in the sheet metal rule until Fusion would puke out a blank the correct length.

We had a good afternoon working through it all. Turns out this is a great way to introduce someone to operating the plasma table and simple bends on the brake.



Once we had a single bend coming out correctly, I made a 2” x 4” U channel to continue to test things out. We got it dialed in pretty well.



Some of what we have made this week.



And, new machine day(s) are always fun. And a lot of work!



This compressor looks really good. Pressure lubrication, with a spin on filter. Another 10hp single phase motor. Hopefully the last. The need for new three phase service at both buildings is quite evident.

 

[slodat]

How did you manage that???

I believe this is how it works:

 

[Bob Heine]

How did you manage that???

@zanyad, when you set up a sole proprietorship you can deduct expenses for your home office (if it's exclusively an office) along with a percentage of all the utilities in the house (based on square footage). The portion of the expenses for a vehicle you use exclusively in your business (like a pickup truck) can also be written off. Because Liane refuses to drive the '87 Corvette (she did drive the '72 big block) I used it to run errands for the business. When the sprag clutch blew, I had a shop do the rebuild so the $1,800 was a business expense.

For quick zips to CompUSA a Vette would be mandatory! Must get the “You’ve got Mail” voice back up ASAP!!!

Sterling, top down trips in Sunny South Florida, especially in the winter, is the only way to go.

That was your voice…. right?!

Wish it was. The voice was Elwood Edwards and they started using him in 1989, six years before I went to work at AOL. I started using AOL in 1993 and my 8-character name was available. When I went to work as a consultant in 1995 I continued using it. When I left in 1999, they wanted to cancel the account but I showed them I was grandfathered in. They allowed internal e-mail addresses to use be mixed case and added spaces as well.

I believe this is how it works:

Steven, I remember thinking David wasn't that far off, based on what a few consultants I worked with were doing. I double-checked my deductions before filing so I knew they were legitimate. AOL made my life a bit easier when they bumped my rate and had me pay all my own expenses (instead of submitting expense accounts). Beyond all the hardware and software, limo service to and from the local airports, flights, rental cars, motel rooms and meals were all deductible. Giant pain keeping track of all the receipts but that's what spreadsheets are for.

 

[rvieceli]

Steven I know that you are busy (yay!) but you might want to start inquiring about 3phase if you haven’t already.

Around here the power company can be as slow as molasses with installing.

Everything is looking great BTW.

Ron

 

[GeddyT]

Funny that you get Solidworks right as I cancelled it!

I know you're busy, but you might try playing with Solidworks for solid modeling as well seeing hows you're already paying for it. You might be surprised how much better it is than Fusion when the need arises to make changes to the model. That being said, Dassault never got their **** together when it came to the "software as a service" experience. At least not at the tier I was paying for (hopefully the more professional version you're using treats you MUCH better). The kicker was when I got tired of wading through dozens of old models I'd never use again in order to find the model I was currently working on. I figured I'd just simply delete the old models to clean up my storage folder. When I say I spent the entire time I was going to use modeling a part instead figuring out how to delete a freaking file, I'm not exaggerating.

I thought having to go to a support forum to ask how to delete one of my files was crazy enough, but the answer was even crazier: I had to install a separate standalone program on my computer and use it to manage my cloud files.

"WHAT!?"

The difficulty I had yesterday in figuring out how to navigate to the correct login page, get logged in, and cancel my subscription was pretty good confirmation that I was making the right choice. It was on the third identical-looking login page that I was granted access to my account. The first two either denied access or took me to a profile page where I could edit my contact info and... do absolutely nothing else.

It's a bummer, as the CAD is really, really good. I still remember liking Creo better (back in ancient times when it was was called Pro/E), but it was close enough, and I'll never be in a spot to afford Creo. I started out like you with a Fusion subscription for the "it's simple, cheap, and works" factor and a Solidworks subscription for modeling heavy lifting. Model the part in SW, import perfectly to Fusion for CAM. It didn't take more than a month or two before I took to doing the simpler modeling in Fusion because the swap back and forth wasn't worth it. Got better at working around Fusion's quirks and limitations, and gradually I found myself just never opening SW. It's probably been close to a year.

 

[slodat]

Had a long hard day in the shop yesterday fighting/chasing sheet metal challenges. I’m getting there. This is definitely some of the most challenging work I’ve done. Apologies for the photos of the computer screen instead of screenshots. This is the part in question. I can’t make it with the tooling I have.



My solution:




I made two test parts the other night before I went home. They fit perfectly.


Then we spent all day yesterday chasing a mistake I made. The day prior I had sorted out a -0.04” X axis correction I needed to apply to get things right on the brake. We did a quick test to make sure that was the case and that the previous days work was indeed valid.



Absolutely good enough for these parts. I had cut all the end pieces first thing thinking I had it all sorted. The Shop Sabre is doing a good job. I do not love plasma and I long for the laser.


I’m well aware there will be a learning curve with the laser as well. We formed some of these up along with a center piece. And they didn’t fit. It took several parts, then some 4” sections of the profile, a lot of head scratching…



Then it dawned on me… I had not updated my bend drawing since the day prior, but I had applied some sheet metal rule changes. Sure as ****, the bend lines had changed by the exact amount we had measured. Made those changes on the program at the brake and we got this..



When I designed the end pieces I used a 0.01” gap. The parts are quite snug, but not bowing or distorting. I’m really happy with the fit up. It’s going to look really nice, even though it’s a fabricated part instead of 8 bends out of one piece.

Two days of dialing in the process with the 14ga CRS from a new supplier. It appears we are doing better than I have up to now. It’s a lot of work, quite a bit of frustration being self taught, and infinitely rewarding when the two parts slipped together.

Sheet metal is not easy. But it sure is satisfying once I get it.