Above 1200 Sq/FT Eastern Washington Workshop

[slodat]

Enabled 7x7 mesh bed leveling. It’s printing the first layer now.

The print turned out great! Zero stringing, fuzz or any of the other PETG challenges. Part looks awesome save for the horizontal line on the front that I don't know how to tune out, and the corners lifting. I can live with both for now, and will continue to try to tune them out.







The foam glue up bit me in the ***. Lesson learned. I found a solution that really adds something nice to the case, doesn't add any real time to assembly, and takes care of the adhesive wanting to transfer to the aluminum parts.. a 1/16" ABS insert.



Installed:


A photo of the top of the case showing where the corners are lifting.

 

[ODIS]

All of it.... Amazing!

 

[slodat]

All of it.... Amazing!

Thank you! It has been a long day, a long project, and a lot of setbacks (learning opportunities). I can see the finish line in the distance.

 

[Toolfool]

All of it.... Amazing!

I agree. Every time I check on this thread I just shake my head in amazement. All this programming stuff is over my head, so I just hit the "LIKE".

 

[Andrew S]

Slodat, you might try rotating or moving the part to the back edge of the build plate, rather than the front. That would tell you if there is a heating issue towards the front edge.

Andrew

 

[slodat]

I agree. Every time I check on this thread I just shake my head in amazement. All this programming stuff is over my head, so I just hit the "LIKE".

Thank you! It can get a little weird working these long days by myself. I appreciate the feedback and conversation on here.

 

[slodat]

Slodat, you might try rotating or moving the part to the back edge of the build plate, rather than the front. That would tell you if there is a heating issue towards the front edge.

Andrew

Andrew, thank you for the suggestion! I can't rotate because there's not enough Y axis travel. I will move it back on the build plate on the next one. The lifted corners are minor and don't affect the function of the part. I can live with it until I dial it out.

 

[MadeByMiller]

Another simple thing you can try, again if you haven't already, is to "rejuvenate" your build sheet. Take it to the sink and use the scrubby side of a sponge or equivalent Scotchbrite pad and lightly scrub the build plate with soap and hot water. Let it dry and then clean it with IPA as normal. This applies to all build sheets by the way if you're noticing adhesion issues. One last idea, try to bump up your bed temp 10* and see if that makes any improvements.

 

[slodat]

This has been a long time coming.. This will be the latest addition to the shop. We struck a deal, and the trucking company is going to deliver it tomorrow. Early 80's Hyster 9000lb lift. Has 2000 hours on it. One owner prior to the guy I'm buying it from. He buys and sells forklifts and skid steers. He has going through it and taken care of a lot of little details. Rebuilt engine, completely gone through. Starts right up. No leaks.

This really solves so many problems. It will be a welcome addition to the shop. I can't wait to get it here tomorrow. Now I can receive material orders (should I decide to go that route).

This is a bigger forklift at 9000lb capacity and the dually front wheels. With the gravel and incline getting up to my shop doors, I need a lift that can handle that terrain, year-round. I have several customer shipments headed this way. I can't risk it with a lift that can't get up the gravel slope. The seller had another 3000lb lift that would be perfect in July. Problem is the rest of the year. This lift is coming with new snow chains. Hopefully, I never need them. I'm sure it will be nice having them on hand should the need arise.

Photos from the ad:

 

[slodat]

Another simple thing you can try, again if you haven't already, is to "rejuvenate" your build sheet. Take it to the sink and use the scrubby side of a sponge or equivalent Scotchbrite pad and lightly scrub the build plate with soap and hot water. Let it dry and then clean it with IPA as normal. This applies to all build sheets by the way if you're noticing adhesion issues. One last idea, try to bump up your bed temp 10* and see if that makes any improvements.

Thanks again for your ideas and suggestions. I have done the treatment to the build sheet. I think you are right that adhesion is the cause. I'll continue to work on it. I need to get these lids made so I can ship this order. I had already raised my temperatures quite a while ago based on what I had read on the Prusa forums about Overture PETG. I feel rather confident my first layer height is good. I plan to do the nyloc mod when I have some time.

 

[rvieceli]

That is an excellent looking forklift. Should give you great service for many years.

Ron

 

[slodat]

That is an excellent looking forklift. Should give you great service for many years.

Ron

I think so! I did a lot of looking and this was the right deal for a machine that will do what I need it to do.

 

[slodat]

The fiber lasers come with a grid of M6 threaded holes in the base plate. At first sight, it looks like it's what you need.. until you need to nudge something a little, or space parts and then move that group a little, etc. Enter the Blackwell Engineering Low Profile Positioning Table.



Obviously, it is a great looking part. The functionality really completes the laser though. I spent quite a bit of time trying to get the setup in the photo sorted out yesterday without the table and it just wasn't working out with what I had on hand.

One of the goals with these robots is to get the cycle times up so you can work on other things while it does its thing. This is a 20 minute cycle. Plenty of time to feed another process.

 

[Andrew S]

Andrew, thank you for the suggestion! I can't rotate because there's not enough Y axis travel. I will move it back on the build plate on the next one. The lifted corners are minor and don't affect the function of the part. I can live with it until I dial it out.

Sure, I was thinking just to spin the part 180º, so the front is now at the back. If the back edge of your part now lifts, it's definitely a build plate issue, rather than a design feature.

 

[rmack898]

Steven, I had almost that exact same fork lift except mine had side shift. The dual wheels really make a difference on gravel. Good luck with it, I'm sure it will be a nice addition to your shop.

 

[slodat]

Sure, I was thinking just to spin the part 180º, so the front is now at the back. If the back edge of your part now lifts, it's definitely a build plate issue, rather than a design feature.

Ahh! I'll give it a try!

 

[slodat]

Steven, I had almost that exact same fork lift except mine had side shift. The dual wheels really make a difference on gravel. Good luck with it, I'm sure it will be a nice addition to your shop.

Mac, any pointers or advice on these old machines? It was made around 1980, and has been maintained well. The guy I'm buying it from converted to electronic ignition, all filters and fluids changed, etc. It's going to be a great addition to the shop.

 

[rmack898]

Mine was previously owned by the Navy and came off a carrier. They had maintained it well and I abused the **** out of it and I found it to be pretty much bullet proof. I had mine for 8 years before I sold the business and it never needed anything, I think I changed the oil in it twice.

 

[slodat]

That's great to hear! 9000 pounds is a lot of lathe it can lift!!

 

[bugnut]

Steven. not sure how it works with petg but I have used the old glue stick on a clean build sheet it has solved lift issues.

 

[slodat]

Forklift was delivered a little while ago. I couldn't get it to drive up the driveway to the door I wanted to park it in, so I put it in the main bay.



This would be the end of the post if I had left it in the bay. Instead... I thought I'd try backing it up the driveway and park it in the lift bay where I wanted it.. Well... it back up the driveway. I parked it, went inside and made space for it. Went back outside to finish pulling it in and..





It rarely, if ever is this wet here... Alas.. it's plenty wet tonight. And, my forklift is now... submerged in gravel. AND.. I've screwed up my driveway. I wish I had money for concrete.. So.. tomorrow I get to try to pull it out with the truck and some plywood under the tires. I suppose the good news is I have lots of jacks.

Gotta post the bad with the good, right? Obvious rookie forklift owner move!

 

[Mr.zippy]

Looks to be in good shape. Also looks to be heavy enough

 

[slodat]

Looks to be in good shape. Also looks to be heavy enough

It's a total fatass!

 

[slodat]

Did some poking around in the gravel up close to the building. It’s not compacted much at all. Makes sense.. the guy that did it used a big roller and didn’t use anything close to the building.

I’ll get the forklift unstuck in the morning, then rent a big jumping Jack and see how much of a difference compacting it makes. I think this may be the trick.

I watched the security camera video and the rear tires just sank in right there. Hopefully compacting helps.

 

[gearhead1960]

....who doesn't like some nice "***"!

 

[rvieceli]

I know that concrete is pricey and not nearly as much fun as buying tools but if you have a bay that you expect to consistently bring stuff into with the fork lift. You might want to at least think about paving that one’s entry. Might save you a lot of headaches along the way.

Ron

 

[slodat]

I know that concrete is pricey and not nearly as much fun as buying tools but if you have a bay that you expect to consistently bring stuff into with the fork lift. You might want to at least think about paving that one’s entry. Might save you a lot of headaches along the way.

Ron

Ron- we are definitely on the same page. I’ve wanted concrete since I bought the building. It’s a lot of square footage, therefore a lot of cash. It definitely moved up the priority list last night. The thing is, I want to add on to the shop in that “parking lot” area. This would most likely have the concrete removed to build.

I think the plan will be to do the concrete for the addition before the expansion. Once I know I have the ability to pay for it, I’ll head down that path.

 

[Toomanytools?]

That gravel looks really fine you might have a hard time getting much compaction. I usually use 5/8's minus compacts very well. Regardless with too much water and not good drainage and a very heavy forklift you are going to have problems.

 

[86turbodsl]

I own 3 forklifts. You're going to want concrete for where you're running that around. That type of tire while more forgiving than hard tires, is still not really suited for offroad. Gravel is offroad. Especially since it's a 9000 lb lift, meaning it's probably about 20000 lbs weight. Also it's not full free lift, so you're going to want to really pay attention when lifting you don't take out your garage doors.

 

[slodat]

Machine weighs 11,450. A buddy helped with the stuck forklift this morning. Towstrap on the F150 in 4 low. ******** the lowest mast cross member. He pulled a little with the truck and I drove the forklift. It came right out. Watching the security cameras in slow motion shows what's happening.. Biggest factor on the terrain I have is excessive turning of the rear wheels. That's something I can somewhat tune out. When it comes to the driveway slope, the side of the driveway closest to the shop is a much shallower slope. I can get up that slope reliably.

Big picture, I need concrete. That is the solution. Reality today is it's not an option. So, I'll work with what I've got.

This is the temporary solution:


It worked REALY well. Back up the right side of the driveway onto the plywood. Then back onto the right side of the driveway up by the shop (where I normally park my truck day-to-day), turn around and I can pull into the shop. The plywood works great. It's ugly as sin and not ideal, but it works.

I bought a tarp.. Of course it caught a corner first time I used it and has a small tear. She sleeps outside today.

 

[86turbodsl]

I'm shocked it's only 11430. Rule of thumb is 2x capacity.

 

[slodat]

That’s the weight on the nameplate. The plywood works for now. Obviously, concrete is the answer.

The X1 arrived today. Fair warning… lots of photos are coming, I’m sure. My five minute assessment is it is awesome! Literally did nothing but power it up and load filament.



This is a test print that comes loaded on the printer. The orange is Bambu PLA that came in the box. The black has been open and on the shelf for at least 18 months.



It is truly difficult to believe the quality of this print. Top and bottom. And, effortless two colors! I’ll put the machine through its paces seeing how it does running my parts.

Initial impression is it’s a very nice machine and appears to print well out of the box. Printing a bin now. I’ll load up ABS after it’s done and see how that goes.

Screenshot of the Bambu app while I’m out getting dinner:

 

[slodat]

I'm shocked it's only 11430. Rule of thumb is 2x capacity.

I noticed on the ten or so I looked at the past couple weeks the lifts weighed about 2-3000 lbs more than their load rating. Of course that rating is typically 19-24” from the mast.

 

[macgyver37]

One trick to speed up unsticking a forklift in gravel etc is to use the mast tilt function to lift the drive wheels. Tilt the mast all the way back, stick cribbing or whatever you can get in there as tight as you can, then tilt the mast forward and it will lift the wheels where you should be able to get something under them to help get it out of the hole. Repeat as needed to keep raising it up.
Also, as you mentioned it seems that as soon as you turn the steer tires it magically stops everything like progress, momentum, inertia etc. If you think the base is sketchy to drive on, minimize the steering angle as much as possible.

Something I just thought of you should investigate, look into concrete treating the gravel. I have seen it done in dirt, might work on gravel. What they do is spread dry cement on soil that won't dry out or hold any load, then they use a big Cat rototiller type machine to till the cement into the soil and the moisture from the soil hardens the cement mix and it stabilizes the ground. Pretty crazy results. In one pass they can go from swamp that ***** in everything to a base that will hold up road traffic. Anyway, you might be able to do a DIY version for cheaper than a real concrete drive.

 

[slodat]

Thank you for the info! I didn’t think of using the tilt cylinders!

I watched a few YouTube videos last night about spreading concrete mix on the gravel. I didn’t know about what you’re describing. I’m going to talk with a few local guys that do this sort of thing this week and see what we come up with.

Ultimately whatever I do now will come out. Bigger picture plan is to add on to the shop in this parking lot area.

 

[nicholam77]

Wow, the Bambu X1 looks sweet! Looking forward to seeing more.

 

[slodat]

Got back to the shop after dinner and this is what I found.. The X1 made a perfect Schaller bin. It's really as flawless as I feel FDM printing can be. And, it's stupid fast. Attempt at decent photos (from my phone):







I don't know if the Prusa knows the Bambu is next to it, but this is what the Prusa had to say when I walked in the door:



I have seen this maybe once or twice before. This is a 12.5 hour or so print on the Prusa. I just sent it to the X1. Says it will be done in a tad under 5 hours with same/similar settings best I can tell. Up to now, I had been planning on a second Prusa for my parts I make for my business and the X1 was for shop stuff, and maybe the production/print farm sorta stuff. Maybe not? They are the same ish price by the time I outfit the Prusa the way I want - octopi, Revo 6, enclosure. That's a factory assembled Prusa, I don't want to spend my time assembling a printer.

Soo.. we shall see how the X1 does this weekend.

 

[slodat]

Figured out what happened with the Prusa..



Thermistor in the hot end is open.



I *think* I followed E3D’s instructions correctly. Wire broke loose at the connector.

X1 just did this after printing the first layer:



If these features work well, it could bode quite well for process reliability.

 

[86turbodsl]

I noticed on the ten or so I looked at the past couple weeks the lifts weighed about 2-3000 lbs more than their load rating. Of course that rating is typically 19-24” from the mast.

Just going from what my forklift mover was saying. Glad you got it unstuck! From my experience, you need a forklift to work on a forklift. They breed!

 

[slodat]

I had to come back to the shop tonight to see how my hardware box lid did on the X1. I really think the size of the print will be an obstacle for FDM. It’s about 9x5x2”.

It turned out pretty great all told, with one unacceptable defect- a crack at that same Z height. The layers didn’t adhere well, or maybe lifted or something. The Bambu slicer put a huge brim on. I don’t like the brims at all. The don’t come off easy. I tried a file to just break the edge and I just don’t like it. I will say this.. I didn't have the corners lifting up at all when I removed the part from the build plate.

I'm letting it print the part again with a few slicer changes, in PETG. The speed on the X1 is remarkable, provided I can get a recipe dialed in for this part. I think if I run it a little hotter, it will be fine. I had the same sort of crack when I ran the PETG on the PRUSA down at 230C. When I raised temperature back to the proven 260C, I didn't have an issue.



Lower right of the photo above is the crack. I feel like there's something I can do in the model or in the slicer to alleviate this issue.



The other side looks great! So does the inside.




The phone app is really nice. I have it loaded with two partial roles of black PETG. It should transition to the other roll when the current role runs out.. automatically!