Homemade electrolysis. What do you use?

[Outlawmws]

I run a lot on 6V - Slower, but slow is good for Etank rust removal.

 

[1/2 Cup]

The Solar Powered Electrolysis Bath update.

Anodes done and ready for its first test run.

Its bubbling away as I type this

I have used 1 cup ( and no, not a 1/2 Cup ) of washing soda first up to see how it goes, sitting on a steady 12 volts at around 4 amps at the moment.

View media item 53821
Back to it guys.

Lessons learned already by this novice.

. I have two anode plates that are about 5" from the piece being derusted, sitting on 12 volts at about 4 amps, move an anode closer to the work piece increases the current. So placement of my items in the tank in relation to the anode is key.
. Remove one anode and the current halves. Anode surface area is important.

Regards

 

[1/2 Cup]

The Solar Powered Electrolysis Bath update.

Two hours later.

View media item 53822
More lessons learned.

Wash and wire brush down your work piece to remove any crusty bits first, this helped big time.

I periodically removed each piece, brushed and rinsed again to removed loose scale and crud softened in those two hours, worked well.

Back at it tomorrow as it is evening here now and not a lot of sun about.

Regards

 

[drivesitfar]

1/2: looks great. just an FYI in case you missed it. after cleaning off the parts out of the E bath if you are not planning on putting them back in for another bath you'll need to put BLO (boiled linseed oil) or something else to keep them from flash rusting.

Fretters did an experiment a while back painting over the BLO and it worked nicely according to him. he does use a brush and an enamel type paint and he's even put a little BLO in the paint mix that worked.

as nice as you make everything you work on I'm looking forward to seeing the finished products after you E tank any of your old rusty finds. good luck

 

[bagged89s10]

+1 to BLO. My last vise came out amazing after painting over BLO.

 

[1/2 Cup]

Boiled Linseed Oil it is, I will let you know how it goes

 

[930dreamer]

I bought a box of tools with at least six tire irons, maybe I'll use them as anodes.

 

[1/2 Cup]

I bought a box of tools with at least six tire irons, maybe I'll use them as anodes.

You certainly could use the irons, use one or two for starters and see how you go. If you have a clamp meter use that to monitor your current draw.

From what I have learned in the last day or so:

. The closer the anode is to the work piece, the more current and a faster reaction.
. The greater anode area the more current is drawn and a faster reaction.
. To slow the process down is the reverse of the above.
. I have kept the current in my bath to around 4 - 5 amps, slow and steady wins the day.

Let us know how you go 930

Regards

 

[drivesitfar]

1/2: you might already know this but when you are ready to clean off your anodes I think you can put a different sacrificial piece of steel in the middle of the tank and put the positive lead to it and the negative to the anodes you've been using for a quick clean. i've heard others that have done it and thought i'd mention it because i heard it can be messy cleaning off the anodes.

cheers

 

[1/2 Cup]

Thank you for the tip drives I will give it a try for sure.

 

[BlueBomber]

I've got 8 pieces of rebar in mine for anodes, and I periodically clean them up by lifting the top of each rod and rapping it a few times against the bottom of the bucket. Seems to work okay, but may just be a lazy man fooling himself.

 

[bagged89s10]

Those of you using BLO, do you brush it on or do you wipe it on with a rag? I've been using a rag and then wiping off excess with another rag. I was just thinking today when applying BLO that maybe it's easier with a brush. I might try it next time.

 

[Craptain]

Those of you using BLO, do you brush it on or do you wipe it on with a rag? I've been using a rag and then wiping off excess with another rag. I was just thinking today when applying BLO that maybe it's easier with a brush. I might try it next time.

Both methods work. Whichever works best in the particular situation is the one to use. Simple see.

But seriously the brush will leave a heavier coat and will take longer to dry. If this is a problem then go with the other method. Also consider whether the BLO is a temporary protection or the final finish. For temp use use a thinner coat, esp if you are going to paint over. For a longer term finish go with heavier, ie brush.

 

[drivesitfar]

I agree with craptain.

 

[bagged89s10]

So it was 28F degrees last night and my etank didn't freeze. It's going to be 22F tonight and I didn't have time to empty it.

 

[CwazyWabbit]

So it was 28F degrees last night and my etank didn't freeze. It's going to be 22F tonight and I didn't have time to empty it.

Isn't washing soda a salt? In which case it'll lower the freezing point of the water

I don't know how much washing soda lowers it but apparently normal salt would lower it to -6F when the water is fully saturated.

 

[bagged89s10]

Isn't washing soda a salt? In which case it'll lower the freezing point of the water



I don't know how much washing soda lowers it but apparently normal salt would lower it to -6F when the water is fully saturated.

I was kind of thinking that.

 

[CwazyWabbit]

If you notice it starting to freeze chuck a few more packets of washing soda in

Apparently it's almost as effective as table salt at lowering the freezing point according to some googling I did....

 

[bagged89s10]

If you notice it starting to freeze chuck a few more packets of washing soda in

Apparently it's almost as effective as table salt at lowering the freezing point according to some googling I did....

Thanks for the info. Makes it easier to keep the tank outside and usable during winter. Not looking forward to this winter.

 

[jaksm1]

Here is an electrolysis method I have used for several years with much success! Included in the PDF is two different ways, I have used the one with the Lye titled "RUST REMOVAL MADE EASY" The second one is a "Washing Soda" recipe, I have not used that one but found it interesting enough to keep. Make sure you follow the instructions completely when it comes to making sure the temper to the metal is restored as well. This sheet was given to me back in 1990...

PLEASE NOTE: While I have not concerned myself with it yet there is a chance that metal cleaned this way may be subject to hydrogen embrittlement. This can happen in many processes such as electroplating or welding. It should not be a problem unless you are cleaning hardened steel such as saw blades, knives, or chisels. If you are and you intend to use the item (rather than simply displaying it) you may want to try baking the part in an oven, I've heard of using temperatures from 300°F to 440°F (150°C to 225°C) for several hours. ASTM-B633 is a standard relating to zinc plating of parts and it specifies baking at 375°F (190°C) for 3 hours within 4 hours of plating. As I haven't done this myself I can't provide any more information on the process other than to say that you will have to watch the temperature to ensure that you don't affect the temper of the piece. (The previous statement was taken from this source... http://schoepp.hylands.net/electrolyticrust.html by Al Schoepp)


Enjoy!
Jacko

http://www.mediafire.com/view/ktt3ezdbsooqxy6/electrolysis_Final.pdf

 

[Username already in use]

Excellent read guys. Thanks for all of the solid info!

I've been waiting to find a project that would push me to make my own tank. What I found was this Kennedy MC28 that needed some love.

All the parts were laying around except for the rebar tie wire ($5). I was fortunate to have use of the 150Gal. trough. I've got some hinges and a piece of plywood I want to fix to the top (I don't need a kid falling in there!). Old rotors will be repurposed as anodes. They should work right? The power supply is a vehicle maintenance charger, 12V and 1.5A.

I should be able to finish construction this weekend!

-0lllll0-

 

[SeattleKent]

I don't think the 1.5 amp power supply will be big enough for that size of a job. That is a lot of surface area. I use a Sears manual battery charger model 71221. It was around $40 when I bought it 4 years ago. I now see it listed on their website at $74. Got to the local auto store and pick up a cheap 10 amp manual battery charger.

The rotors should work fine. Position at either end to give as much line of sight exposure to the box as possible.

Good luck!

 

[Craptain]

I disagree about the charger. It will be fine but slow. The (minor) problem I see is that it could use an electrode inside the box. If you add an electrode inside the box it will improve the rust removal inside. Remember that it helps to have "line of sight" for the electrodes for optimum performance. Also slow is better as far as current is concerned.

Good luck. I think you will be fine.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

 

[drivesitfar]

SK: i hear Fretters and others using very low amps and leaving them on for days. Fretter's tank is twice the size of the horse water dish.

also the newer chargers i hear need a battery in the loop or they turn off, but i'm not 100% on that fact so maybe somebody else can say.

UAIU: let us know how it works and take and post a few more pictures of your rusty pieces cooking. good luck

 

[bagged89s10]

I want to upgrade my tank electrodes with graphite. Anyone have recommendations on what I should buy?

 

[Craptain]

Bagged. I bought a couple of different graphite rods of EBay. The main ones I use are 2 inch wide and about 2 foot long by 1/4 thick. I use 4 of them spaced around the tank. I also have some 1/4 square rods that I use for inside things like gas tanks. This works well for me.
Don't recall costs but it was reasonable.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

 

[bagged89s10]

Bagged. I bought a couple of different graphite rods of EBay. The main ones I use are 2 inch wide and about 2 foot long by 1/4 thick. I use 4 of them spaced around the tank. I also have some 1/4 square rods that I use for inside things like gas tanks. This works well for me.
Don't recall costs but it was reasonable.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

Thanks. I'll have to look for some.

 

[Outlawmws]

SK: i hear Fretters and others using very low amps and leaving them on for days. Fretter's tank is twice the size of the horse water dish.

also the newer chargers i hear need a battery in the loop or they turn off, but i'm not 100% on that fact so maybe somebody else can say.

UAIU: let us know how it works and take and post a few more pictures of your rusty pieces cooking. good luck

Generally speaking (assuming a solid state charger without a transformer) true and well documented. I know one guy managed to get his to "start" by moving the part really close to the anode, but that also risks a short circuit.

On size of power supply; in general the larger the surface area you are working with on the parts being de-rusted, the bigger the power source you will need.

I know one guy (outside of GJ) documented making a large, relatively flat E-Tank for the frame of a vintage truck (and LOTS of rebar...) using plastic sheet and a 2X12 "waterbed frame" approach, and used a Lincoln AC/DC arc welding box (On DC setting) as the power supply...

 

[Outlawmws]

Excellent read guys. Thanks for all of the solid info!

I've been waiting to find a project that would push me to make my own tank. What I found was this Kennedy MC28 that needed some love.

All the parts were laying around except for the rebar tie wire ($5). I was fortunate to have use of the 150Gal. trough. I've got some hinges and a piece of plywood I want to fix to the top (I don't need a kid falling in there!). Old rotors will be repurposed as anodes. They should work right? The power supply is a vehicle maintenance charger, 12V and 1.5A.


-0lllll0-

I disagree about the charger. It will be fine but slow. The (minor) problem I see is that it could use an electrode inside the box. If you add an electrode inside the box it will improve the rust removal inside. Remember that it helps to have "line of sight" for the electrodes for optimum performance. Also slow is better as far as current is concerned.

Good luck. I think you will be fine.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

If it is not a solid state (no transformer) charger I agree it should work ( I primarily use a larger charger, but I've monitored its draw and it's rarely been above 1 amp or so. The only risk is that is a full load on the little charger and it may not be up to a 100% or close duty cycle...

Also on the internal anode which can be just a short piece of rod or rear hung inside the box. (We have (carefully) used a steel wire inside motorcycle gas tanks as an anode and gotten them clean...)

 

[Username already in use]

Also on the internal anode which can be just a short piece of rod or rear hung inside the box.

Excellent! I've got some old leaf springs sitting around as well. I can use a short one to hang inside the box as an anode.

My plan is to start with one of the drawers and see how it goes.

I'll be sure to post an update.
Thanks all, for the comments and suggestions!
-0lllll0-

 

[Username already in use]

OK, it took me a bit longer than I expected to get this going. Had a couple of false starts with the power supplies. Finally got it figured out and here's the result.
I started with the 1.5A maintenance charger posted upthread, it never started to 'cook'. So I tried an old train transformer with a DC output, again, never started to cook. Finally switched to a Harbor Freight battery charger, set to 12V DC and 2A setting and I was in business.
Here's the soup at day 2

and here's the result of my test piece - an old bit of RR track.
First pic is the piece of track in all it's aged/rusted glory, followed by what it looked like after a day in the soup, followed by final product after 2 days in the soup. It was pretty pitted up at the end, but looks way better than it did when I started. Now that I've got some confidence in the setup, I'll start using this for some other projects!

-0lllll0-

 

[Craptain]

Looks good for starters. Give it a bit of a wire brushing to remove that surface **** and I bet it'll look even better.

 

[drivesitfar]

User: did you get a chance to drop the old toolbox in the tank? Any pics of results?

All: anybody else have pics and information to share about their electrolysis tank? Also has abody dug a hole and put a tarp or pool liner in it to use as a tank for big items like a car frame or something big?

 

[dlcwent]

Needed info, thanks.

 

[Outlawmws]

Drives, trying to line a hole in dirt and not have leaks is pretty iffy.

I have seen where a guy used 2X 12's and built an oversized "waterbed frame" and lined that (sand under the plastic like above ground pools...) then set bricks up for the rebar, blocked a frame up then more re-bar on top (spaced suitably), and filled it. he used an old Lincoln AC/DC welder on DC as a power source, (since the frame was huge...)

You could find a used above ground pool as well.

 

[Fretters]

Can't recall whether it was in this thread or the 101 thread where the subject came up, but with regards to freezing, the solution definitely does have a lower freezing point than plain water. Been to the vat today and there's no ice in it, whereas my tub of water for scrubbing the items clean afterwards is iced over.

 

[Outlawmws]

Are you running it? that will also keep it from freezing as easy.

 

[tarbellb]

Working on my own Electrolysis Tub (on the cheap).

Question about the power source. I know there are some proven methods but I am wondering if a simple wall wart will do the trick?

I have one that is rated at:

IN- 100-240v
OUT- 5.1v @ 2.4amps

Probably on the low side, no idea what the duty cycle is? Its some sort of charger.

My tub is going to be:

12 gallon storage flip top (filled to maybe 8-10 gallons)
(2) x 4" x .5" plates positive

Iteam: decent sized vise, about ~40lbs? broken down.

 

[Fretters]

Are you running it? that will also keep it from freezing as easy.

I wasn't at the time. It'd been stood a few days unused.

 

[SeattleKent]

I have one that is rated at:

IN- 100-240v
OUT- 5.1v @ 2.4amps

Probably on the low side, no idea what the duty cycle is? Its some sort of charger.

Likely too small. That is the equivalent to 1.1 amps at 12 volts. A lot of surface area for such little voltage.
The thing to do it try it. If you are not getting bubbles then go get a car battery charger.