bobbyjean
Well-known member
respect
Learning to WELD!
- Thread starter bczygan
- Start date
respectDoubling up on the class today. Going to both morning and evening sessions to catch up. Might be there from 9 until 9, if my old body can take it.....probably not!
Did 2 chapters of the early sessions homework to make up for the first 4 classes that I missed.
Decided to take the classes for credit instead of auditing.
Bill
Did 2 chapters of the early sessions homework to make up for the first 4 classes that I missed.
Decided to take the classes for credit instead of auditing.
Bill
From what I've seen, that is topic that pops up on weld forums from time to time (kind of like the OSB vs drywall debates that happen here on GJ). I really don't know enough about it to have any opinion one way or the other, but I do know that the main concern with weaving is that it increases the risk of incomplete fusion at the root and slag inclusion. That being said, there are probably thousands of welders who will pass section tests on jobs around the world today who weave their welds, and the AWS standards don't prohibit it (as far as I know).
Spent a 12 hours in the welding lab today.
Got into doing horizontal and vertical up welds. Used some 7024 which produces very nice welds. Easy to work with.
Finally figured out whip and pause in a 3/32 channel vertical up. Need to retry on the flat and horizontal.
Got some help on the vertical up lap which helped.
So far the classes have turned a few grand of steel into a few hundred worth of scrap.
Bill
A couple of beads:
Got into doing horizontal and vertical up welds. Used some 7024 which produces very nice welds. Easy to work with.
Finally figured out whip and pause in a 3/32 channel vertical up. Need to retry on the flat and horizontal.
Got some help on the vertical up lap which helped.
So far the classes have turned a few grand of steel into a few hundred worth of scrap.
Bill
A couple of beads:
Attachments
sberry
Banned
Those look pretty good. You are getting a grip on whip and pause. It's ok to take a spin on other rods but,,, once you get the 6010 and the lo/hy the rest follow and those are the basics and where the rubber hits the road and unmistakable between someone knows and those that think they do.
You got some talent, guys should take the time to learn this way earlier in career.
I mention exagerated motions and when I am trainging welders tend to get to vertical as fast as I can, again, a guy can do that most the rest follows. This is a gap fill, square ****, no bevel full pen. Each little ripple is a deliberate stroke.
You got some talent, guys should take the time to learn this way earlier in career.
I mention exagerated motions and when I am trainging welders tend to get to vertical as fast as I can, again, a guy can do that most the rest follows. This is a gap fill, square ****, no bevel full pen. Each little ripple is a deliberate stroke.
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theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Not a welder ...
One thing I have seen down on video that seems wrong is long welds. Doesn't this distort the metal ? Sure you might have a log section to join, but isn't there less of a chance of distortion if you limit the weld to 2"-4" and either let the whole thing cool down or go to different section and put another bead there ?
Again, on log welds (multiple feet), aren't you better off by starting with small tacks (< 1") and then fill in the space between the gaps with slightly longer welds spaced widely apart ?
One thing I have seen down on video that seems wrong is long welds. Doesn't this distort the metal ? Sure you might have a log section to join, but isn't there less of a chance of distortion if you limit the weld to 2"-4" and either let the whole thing cool down or go to different section and put another bead there ?
Again, on log welds (multiple feet), aren't you better off by starting with small tacks (< 1") and then fill in the space between the gaps with slightly longer welds spaced widely apart ?
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dr_clyde
Well-known member
Real world fabrication is very different sometimes than just learning to make good welds. In Bill's case, distortion isn't a factor. Just needs to make good beads, the rest comes later.
It's not uncommon to run some very long welds in industry. I've set up and run several feet at a time using positioners and props. Especially on round things.
Other times, I'll only do a few inches at a time, moving around to minimize distortion.
It really depends on the situation and circumstances.
royce
Well-known member
Bill,
You are progressing nicely and your latest coupon looks fantastic.
With small coupons like you are welding, you might consider running narrow stringers rather than a weave with the LH.
Running a weave generates a lot of heat and can be difficult to manage on small, thinner coupons.
Royce
You are progressing nicely and your latest coupon looks fantastic.
With small coupons like you are welding, you might consider running narrow stringers rather than a weave with the LH.
Running a weave generates a lot of heat and can be difficult to manage on small, thinner coupons.
Royce
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
I guarantee, you will want to buy a TIG finger !
dr_clyde
Well-known member
weldmonger.com
Jody at welding tips and tricks makes and sells them.
If you don't already, you should watch his YouTube channel. Very good info for beginning welders.
TIG finger combo ordered.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BE93KZW/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Bill
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BE93KZW/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Bill
bimmer1980
Well-known member
yeah, Jody's channel is a good one.
TIG welding should really help you learn how to control the puddle. That can be harder to do with stick as your hand is so much further away and you have to keep adjusting....
I also like having heat control with TIG. You can start off hot to get the puddle going and then adjust as need be....
Enjoy the class!
I didn't learn to TIG until I was on an internship in college. We had some stainless steel tube frames to build for some automated equipment. It definitely helped to have done a number of hours of Acetylene torch welding in high school. I always enjoyed torch welding... TIG was a natural progression of the skill.
TIG welding should really help you learn how to control the puddle. That can be harder to do with stick as your hand is so much further away and you have to keep adjusting....
I also like having heat control with TIG. You can start off hot to get the puddle going and then adjust as need be....
Enjoy the class!
I didn't learn to TIG until I was on an internship in college. We had some stainless steel tube frames to build for some automated equipment. It definitely helped to have done a number of hours of Acetylene torch welding in high school. I always enjoyed torch welding... TIG was a natural progression of the skill.
First day was safety info and intro to the equipment and terms.
I got to try it out though. A LOT to learn!
Starting without filler and trying to form and move the puddle. Working with initiating the arc, forming and moving the puddle and learning how to exit and use the postflow of gas.
Bill
I got to try it out though. A LOT to learn!
Starting without filler and trying to form and move the puddle. Working with initiating the arc, forming and moving the puddle and learning how to exit and use the postflow of gas.
Bill
This evenings class was some more stick practice. Getting better with 6010 vertical up inverted T root pass. Photo below (Junk on the left was someone else. I reused some scrap).
And better cover passes in 7018. No photo.
Finally got good penetration in a flat 6010 whip and pause in a 3/32 gap. No photo.
A good evening.
Bill
And better cover passes in 7018. No photo.
Finally got good penetration in a flat 6010 whip and pause in a 3/32 gap. No photo.
A good evening.
Bill
Attachments
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sberry
Banned
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
One thing I know about TIG welding is that you have to get a comfortable position BEFORE you strike the arc. Even some pros will do "dry runs" with no power to see if they can comfortably reach all parts of the area to be joined.
Another "artist" at welding on YouTube is Keith Fenner. His channel is not truly instructional and it is primarily about machining, but he does get into TIG and cast iron brazing. You need to sort through his videos to find those nuggets. Amazing to watch an expert "work the puddle"!
joe49
Well-known member
Went to the eye doctor today, because my vision has been getting rapidly worse. It's back to where it was before the laser cataract surgery last year.
Good news is it is permanently correctable. I have an appointment for surgery a week from Wednesday for the left eye and a week after that for the right. This is an almost universal condition after cataract surgery. So that is a big relief for me. I thought I would have to stop welding, but the Doc says no problem. And since it is one eye at a time, I can drive myself there at 6 in the morning.......!
Julie can hardly walk, so is setting up for another shot for her hip.
We're old and infirm. Please excuse the medical trials and tribulations talk.
It's getting cold, so got one of the HG heaters on, Just finished 2 chapters and review questions for my auto body course tomorrow evening.Tomorrow is my TIG welding course which I am really loving after the first session! Be glad when I can see it better!
Bill
Good news is it is permanently correctable. I have an appointment for surgery a week from Wednesday for the left eye and a week after that for the right. This is an almost universal condition after cataract surgery. So that is a big relief for me. I thought I would have to stop welding, but the Doc says no problem. And since it is one eye at a time, I can drive myself there at 6 in the morning.......!
Julie can hardly walk, so is setting up for another shot for her hip.
We're old and infirm. Please excuse the medical trials and tribulations talk.
It's getting cold, so got one of the HG heaters on, Just finished 2 chapters and review questions for my auto body course tomorrow evening.Tomorrow is my TIG welding course which I am really loving after the first session! Be glad when I can see it better!
Bill
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Although I have "required" glasses almost all of my life due to astigmatism I was able to read almost anything up until about 3 years ago. Boy did it go downhill from there fast ! I can hardly read my laptop without glasses. Worse, I have to use a magnifier for really small print !!
I have tried bifocals a couple of times and I just can not find the "right" spot when reading or driving ! 2 sets of glasses for me. The best investment I ever made was prescription, polarized sunglasses. They make sunny driving so much easier.
Yesterday was the usual TIG class in the morning and Stick in the evening.
TIG went OK with the usual tungsten sharpening. But one guy, Ahmad, was so good that he did an entire pad of beads that the instructor took for an example. And he's not even going to be a welder! He's going for an engineering degree.
Stick was a cluster F. Couldn't whip and pause in a gap, for anything. Finally did a couple of 6010 vertical up roots, just to reassure myself that I could.
Time to start studying for Saturday automotive technology class.
Bill
TIG went OK with the usual tungsten sharpening. But one guy, Ahmad, was so good that he did an entire pad of beads that the instructor took for an example. And he's not even going to be a welder! He's going for an engineering degree.
Stick was a cluster F. Couldn't whip and pause in a gap, for anything. Finally did a couple of 6010 vertical up roots, just to reassure myself that I could.
Time to start studying for Saturday automotive technology class.
Bill
sberry
Banned
The engineer will really have a step up with this.
The whip and pause in a gap is teally whete its at for most people. Ints used in formal spec wirk but I use it more in common repair, very rarely in a real "root/cover" type situation.
Most stuff doesnt require that, most is single pass or a simple second to beef it up. I wish I would have done some pics of a job I did a month ago. Similar to this, stringer for first and weave on 2nd.
The whip and pause in a gap is teally whete its at for most people. Ints used in formal spec wirk but I use it more in common repair, very rarely in a real "root/cover" type situation.
Most stuff doesnt require that, most is single pass or a simple second to beef it up. I wish I would have done some pics of a job I did a month ago. Similar to this, stringer for first and weave on 2nd.
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Retroman
Well-known member
I always wanted to learn as well and will sign up at our local CC. the company I work for just got a subcontract for the remodel of the welding shop
I worked in my buddies Fab shop for a year and a half and never got to learn. A busy shop doesn't have time to teach you. He could teach me the basics but he is going thru a divorce and has a young girlfriend so that might be a reach.
I worked in my buddies Fab shop for a year and a half and never got to learn. A busy shop doesn't have time to teach you. He could teach me the basics but he is going thru a divorce and has a young girlfriend so that might be a reach.
Was doing awful Tuesday morning, until the instructor came over and helped correct my mistakes. Doing better now.
Today I went for followup surgery on one eye. The other one will be next week. Should improve vision. This is what it is:
What is a secondary cataract?
You may have heard about a condition called "secondary cataract" or "after-cataract." This occurs when the lens capsule, the membrane that wasn't removed during surgery and supports the lens implant, becomes cloudy and impairs your vision. Another term for this condition is posterior capsular opacification (PCO).
A secondary cataract can develop months or years after cataract surgery. You may feel like the cataract is returning because your vision is blurry again. Cell growth on the back of the capsule gradually clouds your vision.
There is no way to know who may develop clouding of the lens capsule after cataract surgery. Up to 50 percent of cataract surgery patients experience this problem.
Treatment for a secondary cataract is fairly simple. It involves a technique called YAG laser capsulotomy, in which a laser beam makes a small opening in the clouded capsule to allow light through. It is a painless outpatient procedure that usually takes less than five minutes. Afterward, you might stay in the doctor's office for about an hour to make sure your eye pressure doesn't increase. Generally, most patients immediately experience improved vision, while some experience gradual improvement over several days.
Doc says I can weld immediately.
Picked up some TIG gloves yesterday.
Class tomorrow morning and evening.
Bill
Today I went for followup surgery on one eye. The other one will be next week. Should improve vision. This is what it is:
What is a secondary cataract?
You may have heard about a condition called "secondary cataract" or "after-cataract." This occurs when the lens capsule, the membrane that wasn't removed during surgery and supports the lens implant, becomes cloudy and impairs your vision. Another term for this condition is posterior capsular opacification (PCO).
A secondary cataract can develop months or years after cataract surgery. You may feel like the cataract is returning because your vision is blurry again. Cell growth on the back of the capsule gradually clouds your vision.
There is no way to know who may develop clouding of the lens capsule after cataract surgery. Up to 50 percent of cataract surgery patients experience this problem.
Treatment for a secondary cataract is fairly simple. It involves a technique called YAG laser capsulotomy, in which a laser beam makes a small opening in the clouded capsule to allow light through. It is a painless outpatient procedure that usually takes less than five minutes. Afterward, you might stay in the doctor's office for about an hour to make sure your eye pressure doesn't increase. Generally, most patients immediately experience improved vision, while some experience gradual improvement over several days.
Doc says I can weld immediately.
Picked up some TIG gloves yesterday.
Class tomorrow morning and evening.
Bill
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Bit of a breakthrough today.
Armed with helpful hints from the instructor Tuesday, I did a bunch of beads.
The Arc instructor filled in for my TIG instructor this morning. He really gave us a bunch of hints and tips.
They allowed me to get much better on flat beads, but not as good as I want.
He told me to move on anyway.
So the next is a flat bead in a 90 degree joint.
Struggled with it a bit until I tried shortening the stickout of the tungsten. Then it got better intermittently. I was moving too fast though, causing empty pockets. Finally I took his advice to turn up the heat to 120 to match my speed.
Below is the result. Note how I changed the torch angle and the heat spread out. Should have kept it tight and more vertical.
Bill
Armed with helpful hints from the instructor Tuesday, I did a bunch of beads.
The Arc instructor filled in for my TIG instructor this morning. He really gave us a bunch of hints and tips.
They allowed me to get much better on flat beads, but not as good as I want.
He told me to move on anyway.
So the next is a flat bead in a 90 degree joint.
Struggled with it a bit until I tried shortening the stickout of the tungsten. Then it got better intermittently. I was moving too fast though, causing empty pockets. Finally I took his advice to turn up the heat to 120 to match my speed.
Below is the result. Note how I changed the torch angle and the heat spread out. Should have kept it tight and more vertical.
Bill
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This evening was a test.
Actually, this morning was. The temporary instructor gave us one. The regular one never did that.
But he gave us lots of hints and corrections to our techniques.
I'm still experimenting with how to hold the torch. I finally adopted his method because it works for me. Comfortable. He also showed me a rhythm and timing to match a T joint I was struggling with.
Another thing he helped with.Actually turning the heat up from 90 to 120A cut down on the width of the heat signature along the weld because I had to move faster.
So I got the T joint down pretty much and was cleared to go on to the lap joint.
Man, that was a bear!
Took me the rest of the evening to finally get it somewhat. Lots of pieces of 1/8" into the scrap bin.
Below is my last effort. No, we didn't clean the cold rolled. I quit after that. Left early on a high note...!
Bill
Actually, this morning was. The temporary instructor gave us one. The regular one never did that.
But he gave us lots of hints and corrections to our techniques.
I'm still experimenting with how to hold the torch. I finally adopted his method because it works for me. Comfortable. He also showed me a rhythm and timing to match a T joint I was struggling with.
Another thing he helped with.Actually turning the heat up from 90 to 120A cut down on the width of the heat signature along the weld because I had to move faster.
So I got the T joint down pretty much and was cleared to go on to the lap joint.
Man, that was a bear!
Took me the rest of the evening to finally get it somewhat. Lots of pieces of 1/8" into the scrap bin.
Below is my last effort. No, we didn't clean the cold rolled. I quit after that. Left early on a high note...!
Bill
Attachments
sberry
Banned
Common steel is hot roll. That looks pretty good.
hefnerconstructionlc
Well-known member
Looking good Bill!
bimmer1980
Well-known member
You are getting there! Keep at it!
Building a skill takes time....
Building a skill takes time....
MrSurly
Well-known member
If you are tigging over mill scale, you are doing really well to make it look that good. I can't tig worth **** without cleaning cleaning cleaning.
Cold rolled, so no mill scale like hot rolled, but no, it wasn't cleaned first. Wasn't required, but did bother my OCD.
I can tell where I went faster and slower, and also where I fumbled the filler rod and didn't reduce the heat and it got fatter near the end. I wasn't dipping, but jamming the filler into the puddle, and the pedal is another element I haven't added in yet.
At least I got it in the corner without breaking through the edge. Also the first one I did full length in one go.
I'm learning to critique my work, which is part of learning.
BTW, you will never see the dozen I did badly before this one.
Bill