d42jeep
Well-known member
Me too. Mine has really been getting a workout but on these Cee Tee Pliers and General calipers only evaporust was needed. The Vacuum Grip battery pliers will always have rust pits, unfortunately.
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rust removal
- Thread starter elidas
- Start date
Me too. Mine has really been getting a workout but on these Cee Tee Pliers and General calipers only evaporust was needed. The Vacuum Grip battery pliers will always have rust pits, unfortunately.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Ok it looks like when I get my grinder and buffers set up again I need to buy some RADIAL BRUSHES, ultrasonic cleaner and some evaporust.
anybody want to mention which brand(s) are the best and/or provide information and/or links to where to buy them please do.
Mac: I'm not sure where you are using that black ink/paint on that Wilton vise, but you did a very nice restoration. thanks for the 411 on your ultrasonic cleaner too.
anybody want to mention which brand(s) are the best and/or provide information and/or links to where to buy them please do.
Mac: I'm not sure where you are using that black ink/paint on that Wilton vise, but you did a very nice restoration. thanks for the 411 on your ultrasonic cleaner too.
macgee
Well-known member
RTM:
Its a love hate sort of thing. I do it cold but there is certainly a step by step technique and use certain tools/materials to apply and clean. I also only do it on clean non porous surfaces. I think there's other threads and good YouTube's out there that show good techniques on it. One tip is to shave off the old skin off the pencil with a razor blade before using to reach fresh soft lacquer.
JoCoSawdust
You should check the Zoro discountt code thread on GJ. (https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9036010#post9036010). They generally have a fair price on them and with a discount code while ordering others things together can make it a good price.
I know I keep talking about radial, radial, radial wheel but its really important to not remove important surface material. Like Jeeps just showed, just Evaporust can do a lot and one reason why I wipe the item down with rubbing alcohol after evaporust as a lot of the **** you may still see on the item just wipe right off. After that I wheel.
For columns is use Naval Jelly (outside) and brass brush, I lay the column on two saw horses and clamp it down and rotate when needed. The Lathe seems great but so easy to remove too much, I've been there, and also had the same thing happen while using too much sandpaper and wheel on them. I was really surprised how much grip is lost from trying to clean up a column; it only takes several thousands of metal removed that can make this happen. I will gently use some 600 grit sandpaper and then maybe the wheel.
You can see here, I cleaned up the column but kept a dull finish to save as much metal as possible. It grips well and doesn't look too bad. You can see the comparison when looking at the table tilt section and column.
Its a love hate sort of thing. I do it cold but there is certainly a step by step technique and use certain tools/materials to apply and clean. I also only do it on clean non porous surfaces. I think there's other threads and good YouTube's out there that show good techniques on it. One tip is to shave off the old skin off the pencil with a razor blade before using to reach fresh soft lacquer.
JoCoSawdust
You should check the Zoro discountt code thread on GJ. (https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9036010#post9036010). They generally have a fair price on them and with a discount code while ordering others things together can make it a good price.
I know I keep talking about radial, radial, radial wheel but its really important to not remove important surface material. Like Jeeps just showed, just Evaporust can do a lot and one reason why I wipe the item down with rubbing alcohol after evaporust as a lot of the **** you may still see on the item just wipe right off. After that I wheel.
For columns is use Naval Jelly (outside) and brass brush, I lay the column on two saw horses and clamp it down and rotate when needed. The Lathe seems great but so easy to remove too much, I've been there, and also had the same thing happen while using too much sandpaper and wheel on them. I was really surprised how much grip is lost from trying to clean up a column; it only takes several thousands of metal removed that can make this happen. I will gently use some 600 grit sandpaper and then maybe the wheel.
You can see here, I cleaned up the column but kept a dull finish to save as much metal as possible. It grips well and doesn't look too bad. You can see the comparison when looking at the table tilt section and column.
JoCoSawdust
Well-known member
Thanks for the link macgee, I'll check that out. I'll give naval jelly a try on my next column. My Dad used to use that stuff for virtually everything, I think he bought it by the gallon.
macgee
Well-known member
JoCoSawdust:
Two things I forgot to add, in the photo's above are pics of when I was applying oven cleaner to the DP column and doesn't show the naval jelly being used. Also, typically the most rust is where the table is not being used. The motion of lifting the table up and down general leaves that zone with less rust, the bad rust is usually near the base and just below the head, so just be more gentle on the column in the zone where the table is used.
All: Please be careful with Naval Jelly its very nasty stuff to breathe in and touch.
Drives: The black paint is on the Starrett square lettering pictured, not on the vise.
There's links in a couple of posts ago to see/buy a USC. Zoro for wheels, Look in Hot deal section for Evaporust deals, but typically Amazon is the way to go for best price and effort.
Two things I forgot to add, in the photo's above are pics of when I was applying oven cleaner to the DP column and doesn't show the naval jelly being used. Also, typically the most rust is where the table is not being used. The motion of lifting the table up and down general leaves that zone with less rust, the bad rust is usually near the base and just below the head, so just be more gentle on the column in the zone where the table is used.
All: Please be careful with Naval Jelly its very nasty stuff to breathe in and touch.
Drives: The black paint is on the Starrett square lettering pictured, not on the vise.
There's links in a couple of posts ago to see/buy a USC. Zoro for wheels, Look in Hot deal section for Evaporust deals, but typically Amazon is the way to go for best price and effort.
macgee
Well-known member
A while back I described a cheaper (Econo) solution to using slow rpm speed for radial brush wheels, here's a cheaper and pretty easy to set-up to find, I see these type of motors come up a lot on local ads and at flea markets.
My main machine is in need of new bearings so I pulled out one of those old Craftsman 115.6962 dual spindle motors you see on a lot on drill presses. Cleaned it up (somewhat), made some fresh spindle spacers on the lathe, installed two new Radial brush wheels (220 & 400 grit) as far outboard as possible, mounted it onto a overseas pedestal (no complaints), it's no Baldor pedestal but works.
The econo set-up works pretty well, I'm happy using it; it's no Baldor 1800 rpm buffer with long spindles ($$$) but performs well enough, has a good amount of clearance for most wheeling. The 1/2hp is totally fine for these narrow wheels, no bogging down. It would be light enough to stick into a corner and slide it out when needed.
After playing around with different setups, machines, speeds, widths and different grit wheels in the last couple of months; I'm finding that this combo wheel and speed set-up is my favorite and primary combo. Will need to cut down the sides of the mounting plate on the pedestal to gain some more clearance when working on longer items. I'll use this set-up for a 6 micron wheel and something else after I finish rebuilding my other buffer.
****Let see some others and what rust removal projects you've got going?
My main machine is in need of new bearings so I pulled out one of those old Craftsman 115.6962 dual spindle motors you see on a lot on drill presses. Cleaned it up (somewhat), made some fresh spindle spacers on the lathe, installed two new Radial brush wheels (220 & 400 grit) as far outboard as possible, mounted it onto a overseas pedestal (no complaints), it's no Baldor pedestal but works.
The econo set-up works pretty well, I'm happy using it; it's no Baldor 1800 rpm buffer with long spindles ($$$) but performs well enough, has a good amount of clearance for most wheeling. The 1/2hp is totally fine for these narrow wheels, no bogging down. It would be light enough to stick into a corner and slide it out when needed.
After playing around with different setups, machines, speeds, widths and different grit wheels in the last couple of months; I'm finding that this combo wheel and speed set-up is my favorite and primary combo. Will need to cut down the sides of the mounting plate on the pedestal to gain some more clearance when working on longer items. I'll use this set-up for a 6 micron wheel and something else after I finish rebuilding my other buffer.
****Let see some others and what rust removal projects you've got going?
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Shiftless
Well-known member
macgee:
That’s a nice utilitarian set up you have there. With your beautiful Southern California weather, are you able to keep it outside most of the year?
That’s a nice utilitarian set up you have there. With your beautiful Southern California weather, are you able to keep it outside most of the year?
macgee
Well-known member
Thanks Shift,
It was just outside while I was building it up and just to take the photo. Right now the weather and light outside is beautiful so taking advantage of it but in summer time your running for shade and cooler environment. Machines and tools stay inside to prevent the skunks and raccoons from peeing on them
Shiftless
Well-known member
Nice picture of that wheel in motion.
I know what you mean about animals.
A skunk actually burrowed under the foundation of our family room and got into the crawl space. When he was gone, I filled the hole with dirt and stones and he somehow moved the stones out and re entered the space. A whole bag of concrete (wet) mixed up with those same fist sized stones stopped a third intrusion.
One of my first tool restorations was a rotary X-Y table pulled from a rat infested back yard shed. Lots of urine stains and “pellets”.
And of course, the raccoons around here are always trying to get into the koi pond.
(Don’t even get me started on gophers...)
.
I know what you mean about animals.
A skunk actually burrowed under the foundation of our family room and got into the crawl space. When he was gone, I filled the hole with dirt and stones and he somehow moved the stones out and re entered the space. A whole bag of concrete (wet) mixed up with those same fist sized stones stopped a third intrusion.
One of my first tool restorations was a rotary X-Y table pulled from a rat infested back yard shed. Lots of urine stains and “pellets”.
And of course, the raccoons around here are always trying to get into the koi pond.
(Don’t even get me started on gophers...)
.
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drivesitfar
Well-known member
MAC: great picture and thanks again for posting it up with your thoughts. i'm leaning towards getting another baldor 3/4 buffer with a 1750 motor and selling off some of my smaller grinders now. I think my 3/4 baldor with 3600rpm might be too fast for these radial brushes?
in any case I'm learning and i'm sure after I buy some and get to using some i'll find out what works best for my old cast iron and steel stuff.
don't you have a pet squirrel that you rescued or was he set free after you got him healthy again?
SHIFT: so how were you 100% sure the skunk was gone before you closed up the crawl space? speaking of that I need to cement up one small area of mine that the contractor put in wood and expansion foam in years ago when we remodeled our house cause i've had to put more expansion foam in to keep the rats out.
speaking of raccoons how's this for a little damage to my lawn and before I re sodded (they destroyed this section in less than an hour at 3-4am one night last fall), I put down a cheap costco container of chili powder.
in any case I'm learning and i'm sure after I buy some and get to using some i'll find out what works best for my old cast iron and steel stuff.
don't you have a pet squirrel that you rescued or was he set free after you got him healthy again?
SHIFT: so how were you 100% sure the skunk was gone before you closed up the crawl space? speaking of that I need to cement up one small area of mine that the contractor put in wood and expansion foam in years ago when we remodeled our house cause i've had to put more expansion foam in to keep the rats out.
speaking of raccoons how's this for a little damage to my lawn and before I re sodded (they destroyed this section in less than an hour at 3-4am one night last fall), I put down a cheap costco container of chili powder.
Attachments
Shiftless
Well-known member
Drives:
At the risk of going further off track, I’ll simply say that in my house, there are multiple access doors to different parts of the crawl space. There are solid dividers isolating areas so I can crawl in and almost stand up in the area where the skunk entered to inspect. I installed wiring with lights in all of my crawl space areas when we first moved in almost 40 years ago. That makes it very easy to find intruders, inspect for leaks, etc.
At the risk of going further off track, I’ll simply say that in my house, there are multiple access doors to different parts of the crawl space. There are solid dividers isolating areas so I can crawl in and almost stand up in the area where the skunk entered to inspect. I installed wiring with lights in all of my crawl space areas when we first moved in almost 40 years ago. That makes it very easy to find intruders, inspect for leaks, etc.
d42jeep
Well-known member
Username sent me a Dunlap Phillips driver today that looked like it had been used as a stir stick for a small can of brown paint. After removing the paint and a little buffing with the 3M wheel, it made it’s way to the Dunlap screwdriver drawer.
-Don
-Don
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Wayne67vert
Well-known member
I have found a much cheaper cleaner than Evaporust. I use 'The Works' toilet bowl cleaner. https://www.biglots.com/product/toi...0tvN0FC1JVhdFebaYzAaAuZgEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
I mix it 1 part 'The Works' to 10 parts water. Let it soak 24 hours and check for total removal. Soak longer if not clean. Rinse with water and treat with fluid film to prevent flash rust.
I mix it 1 part 'The Works' to 10 parts water. Let it soak 24 hours and check for total removal. Soak longer if not clean. Rinse with water and treat with fluid film to prevent flash rust.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Don: nice work on the little screwdriver!!
Wayne: welcome to GJ!! also if you can would you mind posting a few before and after pics using your product and method? thanks
Shift: I'm not sure i'm brave enough to open a door that might let a skunk into my house or corner it in my crawl space. it's great you have lights in there and how about a camera or two? nice work sealing it up though!!
Mac: thanks for the tips on how and where to buy evaporust. i'm guessing 3M is the best maker for the radial brushes or are their other brands just as good?
ALL: I do like this thread so post up more before and after pics or your thoughts on how you remove rust or keep rust off of your stuff. here's a thread some of you might like where Denwood (Woody) is doing a complete undercoating of his 3 year old electric Nisson Leaf. he's a great GJ member and he's got some great posts on upgrading his 100 year old home and how he heated his 9000 square foot building for I think less than $200 per month.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=263351
Wayne: welcome to GJ!! also if you can would you mind posting a few before and after pics using your product and method? thanks
Shift: I'm not sure i'm brave enough to open a door that might let a skunk into my house or corner it in my crawl space. it's great you have lights in there and how about a camera or two? nice work sealing it up though!!
Mac: thanks for the tips on how and where to buy evaporust. i'm guessing 3M is the best maker for the radial brushes or are their other brands just as good?
ALL: I do like this thread so post up more before and after pics or your thoughts on how you remove rust or keep rust off of your stuff. here's a thread some of you might like where Denwood (Woody) is doing a complete undercoating of his 3 year old electric Nisson Leaf. he's a great GJ member and he's got some great posts on upgrading his 100 year old home and how he heated his 9000 square foot building for I think less than $200 per month.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=263351
Provincial
Well-known member
The active ingredient in Works Toilet Bowl Cleaner is hydrochloric acid.
NateHiggins
Member
What do you mean when you say non-conductive bucket? I assumed all buckets made of plastic were non-conductive
Shiftless
Well-known member
A WAY less expensive source of HCL is swimming pool acid.
Be careful with that stuff. When diluting, always add acid to water and never pour water into concentrated acid.
I don’t mind paying for Evaporust. It is safe to use and you don’t have to keep checking on progress, it quits working when the rust is converted and won’t attack iron or steel if you leave it in too long. Acid will dissolve good metal.
Don:
Another nice Dunlap piece for your collection. Gotta love those radial brush wheels, huh?
I tried polishing a plastic handle with mine. That was a mistake. The surface heat melted the plastic into a smear.
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RTM
Well-known member
Just having HCl in the shop can be hazardous. The fumes from opening and closing can be enough to rust nearby tools. A friend had a gallon leak, into secondary containment, and had rust, from the fumes, on a boatload of tools stored under a workbench.
Then there’s the hazards to your health.
Then there’s the hazards to your health.
PierceA
Well-known member
The works, lysol toilet bowl cleaner and CLR all remove rust and other oxidation on steel, iron, brass and bronze items.. it also removes corrosion from nickel plated items..
It is very important to rinse thoroughly with dilute baking soda solution.
You can take a rusted part and dunk it into a container of CLR, and it will de-rust right before your eyes.. pretty neat stuff.
On extremely rusted iron, if you have a safe outdoors area, you can put on a rubber apron rubber gloves face shield and Goggles. you MUST have a hose nearby to rinse off spills on yourself, your clothes or any objects nearby..
This is all for using Muriatic Acid on iron and steel.. It turns a lump of rust into fresh gray iron. Muriatic Acid can be bought at Home Depot in the swimming pool chemicals department for around $10 a gallon.
Have a fan blowing the fumes away from you!! They are nasty!! And a thorough rinse with the garden hose folowed by a baking soda wash and another rinse is MANDATORY.
Using the Muriatic acid is an extreme measure, but for some items its really worthwhile for the time savings and how well it works..
DO NOT SOAK items in Muriatic Acid, This is a brush or pump spray it on, then brush a little then when it stops foaming and fuming rinse it off.
If you use the above process and acid, BE CAREFUL, and pay attention to what you are doing!! ALWAYS have the garden hose at hand to rinse, and have a bucket of baking soda solution at hand..
PierceA.
It is very important to rinse thoroughly with dilute baking soda solution.
You can take a rusted part and dunk it into a container of CLR, and it will de-rust right before your eyes.. pretty neat stuff.
On extremely rusted iron, if you have a safe outdoors area, you can put on a rubber apron rubber gloves face shield and Goggles. you MUST have a hose nearby to rinse off spills on yourself, your clothes or any objects nearby..
This is all for using Muriatic Acid on iron and steel.. It turns a lump of rust into fresh gray iron. Muriatic Acid can be bought at Home Depot in the swimming pool chemicals department for around $10 a gallon.
Have a fan blowing the fumes away from you!! They are nasty!! And a thorough rinse with the garden hose folowed by a baking soda wash and another rinse is MANDATORY.
Using the Muriatic acid is an extreme measure, but for some items its really worthwhile for the time savings and how well it works..
DO NOT SOAK items in Muriatic Acid, This is a brush or pump spray it on, then brush a little then when it stops foaming and fuming rinse it off.
If you use the above process and acid, BE CAREFUL, and pay attention to what you are doing!! ALWAYS have the garden hose at hand to rinse, and have a bucket of baking soda solution at hand..
PierceA.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
speaking of all this ACID if you use vinegar to soak your rusty tools or parts in make sure to rinse off with water and dry cause VINEGAR will eat cast iron and maybe steel too.
anybody use 10 parts water and 1 part molasses for a slow soak to remove rust or maybe the newer products are so much better we shouldn't bother with slow and steady?
I pulled my 3/4 baldor buffer out of storage and thinking of putting wire wheels on it and radial brush wheels on my 1/2 hp block grinder.
anybody use 10 parts water and 1 part molasses for a slow soak to remove rust or maybe the newer products are so much better we shouldn't bother with slow and steady?
I pulled my 3/4 baldor buffer out of storage and thinking of putting wire wheels on it and radial brush wheels on my 1/2 hp block grinder.
anybody use 10 parts water and 1 part molasses for a slow soak to remove rust or maybe the newer products are so much better we shouldn't bother with slow and steady?
[/QUOTE]
I know a guy that runs a classic Porsche parts business. They get rusty stuff in constantly and molasses is his go to.
They have a big *** outdoor plastic container filled with molasses from the feed mill. I think they do around 4:1 water to molasses. Tons of it. Smells like death, they call it "the **** vat".
Anyway it is "low and slow" but it does a great job and is probably the best bang for buck when dealing with big parts. Buying that same amount of evaporust would be pretty nuts, price wise. Plus the molasses seems to work for a long *** time before it loses its power. It also doesn't seem to eat bare metal so they can leave stuff in for a long time with no worries.
As far as dealing with small parts, I'm not really sure if molasses is worth the wait... But when you need a big volume like my buddy and his team, it makes a good option.
JoCoSawdust
Well-known member
For some odd reason, having something that I can refer to as "the **** vat" sitting under the overhang of my shop is oddly appealing. I've got some rusty cast iron machine parts that I won't be getting around to any time soon. Think I'll give it a try!!
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Zippy: thanks for that story!!!
JoCo: it might sound bad "**** VAT" , but I love molasses cookies so I bet it won't smell bad and maybe put a cover over it so the cats, dogs and birds and critters don't crawl in it.
I would love to hear how it works cause I've got some big stuff and a big old horse trough plastic bin i could fill up and set stuff in myself (cast iron stands, vises, and huge old clamps and such).
JoCo: it might sound bad "**** VAT" , but I love molasses cookies so I bet it won't smell bad and maybe put a cover over it so the cats, dogs and birds and critters don't crawl in it.
I would love to hear how it works cause I've got some big stuff and a big old horse trough plastic bin i could fill up and set stuff in myself (cast iron stands, vises, and huge old clamps and such).
driz
Well-known member
I know a guy that runs a classic Porsche parts business. They get rusty stuff in constantly and molasses is his go to.
They have a big *** outdoor plastic container filled with molasses from the feed mill. I think they do around 4:1 water to molasses. Tons of it. Smells like death, they call it "the **** vat".
Anyway it is "low and slow" but it does a great job and is probably the best bang for buck when dealing with big parts. Buying that same amount of evaporust would be pretty nuts, price wise. Plus the molasses seems to work for a long *** time before it loses its power. It also doesn't seem to eat bare metal so they can leave stuff in for a long time with no worries.
As far as dealing with small parts, I'm not really sure if molasses is worth the wait... But when you need a big volume like my buddy and his team, it makes a good option.[/QUOTE]
For big stuff electrolysis is better and far faster. As long as it’s plastic you can make a vat out of anything that holds water. That molasses is the nastiest stuff around and the stench will drive you crazy.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
drivesitfar
Well-known member
so the **** VAT doesn't smell like molasses cookies? i'm also going to have an E Tank, but thinking some of the huge stuff might need a longer bigger tank.
I've heard of some of the guys digging big holes on their property, putting in pond liner, filling up with water and then making an E tank out of it for truck and car frames and huge stuff that I heard works ok too.
good to know!!
I've heard of some of the guys digging big holes on their property, putting in pond liner, filling up with water and then making an E tank out of it for truck and car frames and huge stuff that I heard works ok too.
good to know!!
Drives it far I can ensure you it doesn't smell like molasses cookies unfortunately. I too love molasses cookies but there's something up with the mix of feed mill molasses and rust that smells pretty terrible when you open up the lid of the good ol' **** vat.
This guy on YouTube does a pretty scientific comparison of a bunch of chemicals and molasses performs about as well as evaporust after a few weeks. If you jump to around 14:15 minutes into the video you'll see molasses did a great job. Unfortunately he didn't compare electrolysis.
I'm pretty certain that electrolysis WOULD perform a bit better, and certainly much faster. Don't get me wrong on that, molasses can take probably 3 weeks or so. but molasses is still a great "set it and forget it" thing...
Also worth noting that fishing small parts out of deep molasses can be a huge pain in the *** since its opaque. I was at his place a cigarette with him once, he tells me he has a job for me.
"sir yes sir".
"Take this clothes hanger and fish out a 944 exhaust hanger out of the **** vat, its being a pain in the ***"
Took me a solid 5+ minutes of raking and scooping along the bottom of the **** vat with a bent clothes hanger. But his **** vat is pretty sizeable. Your **** vat mileage may vary.
This guy on YouTube does a pretty scientific comparison of a bunch of chemicals and molasses performs about as well as evaporust after a few weeks. If you jump to around 14:15 minutes into the video you'll see molasses did a great job. Unfortunately he didn't compare electrolysis.
I'm pretty certain that electrolysis WOULD perform a bit better, and certainly much faster. Don't get me wrong on that, molasses can take probably 3 weeks or so. but molasses is still a great "set it and forget it" thing...
Also worth noting that fishing small parts out of deep molasses can be a huge pain in the *** since its opaque. I was at his place a cigarette with him once, he tells me he has a job for me.
"sir yes sir".
"Take this clothes hanger and fish out a 944 exhaust hanger out of the **** vat, its being a pain in the ***"
Took me a solid 5+ minutes of raking and scooping along the bottom of the **** vat with a bent clothes hanger. But his **** vat is pretty sizeable. Your **** vat mileage may vary.
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PierceA
Well-known member
Feed molasses does not smell much like cooking or food molasses. Similar but not appetizing.
The smell is from the gasses given off by the rust/molasses chemical reaction. The gasses are much like those from a septic tank, or a fart.. hence the '****-tank' name.. I bought a 5 gallon pail of feed-molasses for $5 from a wholesaler. I think I have at least half of it remaining, and I've had it and dipped into it for several years..
I use the 1:10 mixture ratio. Seems to work fine.. I'm not sure if a higher concentration is an advantage or not. There might be a U-Tube or two about using differenct concentrations. But I don't have time to search for them.
PierceA.
The smell is from the gasses given off by the rust/molasses chemical reaction. The gasses are much like those from a septic tank, or a fart.. hence the '****-tank' name.. I bought a 5 gallon pail of feed-molasses for $5 from a wholesaler. I think I have at least half of it remaining, and I've had it and dipped into it for several years..
I use the 1:10 mixture ratio. Seems to work fine.. I'm not sure if a higher concentration is an advantage or not. There might be a U-Tube or two about using differenct concentrations. But I don't have time to search for them.
PierceA.
PierceA
Well-known member
I want to emphasize: Keep the molasses mix warm. Over 80* makes a difference. Just like using Evaporust. It's a chemical reaction and heat is a measure of molecular activity, so warmer=more activity, so the rust gets consumed faster with a warmer solution. I do not know if adding a heater to raise the temp to say 100* or 120* would be beneficial or not.. another experiment with no time to try it out..
PierceA
PierceA
Shiftless
Well-known member
P.A.:
You must have been paying attention back when you took Chem 1A.
You are right about temperature. My experience with Evaporust is that it basically stops below 60 degrees. I have never used molasses but the idea of running a controlled experiment at different temperatures is interesting. But it would require separate identical tanks with thermostatically controlled heaters and some rusty iron samples that were identical and perhaps most important, a way to mechanically quantify the exact amount of rust removed at each stage in the trial.
If somebody works in a lab, maybe they can run that experiment on the down low. I retired 12 years ago so that isn’t me.
RTM
Well-known member
My lab is good at making rusty tools, then pushing them away. We use acidified bleach to clean, and it’s real hard on regular tools. Stainless steel ones last longer, if we don’t break them first. My shop keeps the slightly rusty stuff, then pitch them when it gets too bad.
RTM
Well-known member
Speaking of rust removal, here is a question about a wayyyyy tooo far gone tool. It’s an ornate square, with an 1857 patent (McKinley). As you can see from this as found pic, it will never be a collectible again in my lifetime.
I’ve spent a bit of time getting it back to WW user condition. It’s no engineers square, but close enough for carpentry. I was hoping to reduce the level of grossness on the blade, without soaking the brass. Here is a closeup of the end of the blade, after hitting it with a razor blade, 0.008 wire wheel, and the radial bristle brush. Might even be able to see the line where I transitioned, leaving steps of treatment.
what would be the next least intrusive thing to do? Evaporust, carefully controlled, or does the brass not care ( per website, brass is ok) ? There is also a nifty little wing which fold out to give oddball angles from 5-8 sided, you can see the arc in the first picture. It too needs some help, but is not as gross as the main blade.
Thanks for any thoughts.
I’ve spent a bit of time getting it back to WW user condition. It’s no engineers square, but close enough for carpentry. I was hoping to reduce the level of grossness on the blade, without soaking the brass. Here is a closeup of the end of the blade, after hitting it with a razor blade, 0.008 wire wheel, and the radial bristle brush. Might even be able to see the line where I transitioned, leaving steps of treatment.
what would be the next least intrusive thing to do? Evaporust, carefully controlled, or does the brass not care ( per website, brass is ok) ? There is also a nifty little wing which fold out to give oddball angles from 5-8 sided, you can see the arc in the first picture. It too needs some help, but is not as gross as the main blade.
Thanks for any thoughts.
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PierceA
Well-known member
RTM, I'd probably just put the square in the evaporust and let it do it's magic.
But if you don't want to immerse the brass part, you might try 000 steel wool and some CLR, or 'The Works' TB cleaner.
But you might find that the californian version of those two cleaners don't touch the rust much.
When I drive out to CA, I often bring along some of the original liquid cleaners that can't be purchased in CA anymore.
BUT I have found that Home Depot still has Murriatic Acid for sale in the pool chemicals department. If used outside and brushed on, then wiped or steel wooled off, I think you would get most of the corrosion off.
Sometimes red scotchbrite is just enough more aggressive that it will cut the rust when other things will not.. Worth a try.
Note: I do NOT know how Murriatic acid reacts with brass or any of the copper alloys, I do know it works well on steel and iron for removing rust. I'm sure that if you wipe some onto an obscure end or corner of the brass, and watch it, it most likely will not react badly.
I have used 'CLR' and 'The Works'. and Lysol TB cleaners on copper and brass, and Murriatic acid is I believe just a higher concentration of the same Hydrochloric acid as in the TB cleaners.
Hope this helps.. that's a pretty cool try-square.
PierceA
But if you don't want to immerse the brass part, you might try 000 steel wool and some CLR, or 'The Works' TB cleaner.
But you might find that the californian version of those two cleaners don't touch the rust much.
When I drive out to CA, I often bring along some of the original liquid cleaners that can't be purchased in CA anymore.
BUT I have found that Home Depot still has Murriatic Acid for sale in the pool chemicals department. If used outside and brushed on, then wiped or steel wooled off, I think you would get most of the corrosion off.
Sometimes red scotchbrite is just enough more aggressive that it will cut the rust when other things will not.. Worth a try.
Note: I do NOT know how Murriatic acid reacts with brass or any of the copper alloys, I do know it works well on steel and iron for removing rust. I'm sure that if you wipe some onto an obscure end or corner of the brass, and watch it, it most likely will not react badly.
I have used 'CLR' and 'The Works'. and Lysol TB cleaners on copper and brass, and Murriatic acid is I believe just a higher concentration of the same Hydrochloric acid as in the TB cleaners.
Hope this helps.. that's a pretty cool try-square.
PierceA
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
I have never had any trouble with brass or copper parts on steel tools in Evaporust or Metal Rescue. They seem quite as oblivious to each other as steel. The most recent were Seymour Smith Snap-Cut pruning shears with a brass anvil posted on the 'Pruning Shears' thread. The formula only attacks oxides.
Most original toilet bowl cleaners are 10% HCL. Funny PeirceA should mention them. As the longtime GJ veterans here will remember, Scrubbing Bubbles was my "go to" de-ruster for years prior to the invention of the water-based acid-free non-toxic de-rusting tool collectors' miracles. Seriously! I was always recommending it. It seemed ignoble for antiques, but worked great. The gel was particularly effective on things too big to soak. It was weak enough to use without gloves, but strong enough to de-rust and then flash rust immediately (and I mean immediately) after rinsing in water when it hit the air unless you were ready with WD40 or a penetrating oil of choice. But ONLY the blue stuff. Anything in green (Eco friendly) packaging wouldn't work AT ALL.
I would not recommend muriatic acid without diluting it heavily, at least in half, with water. It is extremely strong, you will need gloves, and a mask, and even the vapors will affect anything in the proximity.
Most original toilet bowl cleaners are 10% HCL. Funny PeirceA should mention them. As the longtime GJ veterans here will remember, Scrubbing Bubbles was my "go to" de-ruster for years prior to the invention of the water-based acid-free non-toxic de-rusting tool collectors' miracles. Seriously! I was always recommending it. It seemed ignoble for antiques, but worked great. The gel was particularly effective on things too big to soak. It was weak enough to use without gloves, but strong enough to de-rust and then flash rust immediately (and I mean immediately) after rinsing in water when it hit the air unless you were ready with WD40 or a penetrating oil of choice. But ONLY the blue stuff. Anything in green (Eco friendly) packaging wouldn't work AT ALL.
I would not recommend muriatic acid without diluting it heavily, at least in half, with water. It is extremely strong, you will need gloves, and a mask, and even the vapors will affect anything in the proximity.
Shiftless
Well-known member
I’ll add a 
to what Lugz says:
“I would not recommend muriatic acid without diluting it heavily, at least in half, with water. It is extremely strong, you will need gloves, and a mask, and even the vapors will affect anything in the proximity.”
What diluting strong acid, ALWAYS pour acid into water...NEVER water into acid.
Dilution of acid is an exothermic reaction and depending on concentration, the resultant heat can cause strong acid to boil up and splash on you.
If you aren’t completely familiar with what you’re doing, stay away from concentrated acid.
If you are using concentrated acid, I would add goggles to the list of safety gear that Lugz suggested.
Edit: Yes, the fumes will also corrode metal. Here are some pics of an acid storage cabinet in a Chem lab. Those little metal shelf clips look like they are seriously corroded and well on their way to collapse.
to what Lugz says:“I would not recommend muriatic acid without diluting it heavily, at least in half, with water. It is extremely strong, you will need gloves, and a mask, and even the vapors will affect anything in the proximity.”
What diluting strong acid, ALWAYS pour acid into water...NEVER water into acid.
Dilution of acid is an exothermic reaction and depending on concentration, the resultant heat can cause strong acid to boil up and splash on you.
If you aren’t completely familiar with what you’re doing, stay away from concentrated acid.
If you are using concentrated acid, I would add goggles to the list of safety gear that Lugz suggested.
Edit: Yes, the fumes will also corrode metal. Here are some pics of an acid storage cabinet in a Chem lab. Those little metal shelf clips look like they are seriously corroded and well on their way to collapse.
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cchamelin
Active member
Dziękuje!
Sevenhills1952
Well-known member
Wife collects old railroad date nails, most are rusty. She soaks them in vinegar and they look great.
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Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk
PierceA
Well-known member
If you go back and read my original message about using Muriatic acid, you will note I was emphatic about safety. I wear a rain suit if I'm going to use the stuff. and keep a garden hose at the ready, wear glasses and a full face shield. Gloves of course..
And a fan to blow the fumes away from yourself and othe
I need to google what concentration Pool Chemicals Muriatic acid is.. I don't think it's THAT strong..
I've used it on large cast iron parts, and rusted steel parts. A whole fender off of a car, Then rinse, scrub down with baking soda solution then rinse again..
It IS NASTY stuff..
BUT it does work.. And for those living in the States that want to protect you from yourself, and therefor remove the HCL from your TB cleaner, Pool Chemical Muriatic acid is about the only way to get the very effective chemical.
I'm not sure if Californian CLR. [Calcium,Lime and Rust] has HCL in it or not. Here in Michigan it does: you can pour an inch of CLR into a glass measuring cup and put the cup under the shower-head in the bathroom immersing the rusty head and watch through the glass and see the rust just disappear. It really works..
Shiftless, thanks for the reminder about adding acid to water, not water to acid. I forgot to mention that. BUT I use muriatic full strength, [when I use it] so I don't often have to remember basic Chemistry class..
Oh, another safety note: With many cleaning products I like to use 000 or 0000 steel wool as a sponge to apply and to scrub with the solutions.
I do NOT recommend doing that with either CLR, or muriatic acid.. the HCL reacting with the rust on the steel wool will create a LOT of heat and boil the solutions and burn your finghers through your rubber gloves.. [con't ask HOW I know this! ].
PierceA
And a fan to blow the fumes away from yourself and othe
I need to google what concentration Pool Chemicals Muriatic acid is.. I don't think it's THAT strong..
I've used it on large cast iron parts, and rusted steel parts. A whole fender off of a car, Then rinse, scrub down with baking soda solution then rinse again..
It IS NASTY stuff..
BUT it does work.. And for those living in the States that want to protect you from yourself, and therefor remove the HCL from your TB cleaner, Pool Chemical Muriatic acid is about the only way to get the very effective chemical.
I'm not sure if Californian CLR. [Calcium,Lime and Rust] has HCL in it or not. Here in Michigan it does: you can pour an inch of CLR into a glass measuring cup and put the cup under the shower-head in the bathroom immersing the rusty head and watch through the glass and see the rust just disappear. It really works..
Shiftless, thanks for the reminder about adding acid to water, not water to acid. I forgot to mention that. BUT I use muriatic full strength, [when I use it] so I don't often have to remember basic Chemistry class..
Oh, another safety note: With many cleaning products I like to use 000 or 0000 steel wool as a sponge to apply and to scrub with the solutions.
I do NOT recommend doing that with either CLR, or muriatic acid.. the HCL reacting with the rust on the steel wool will create a LOT of heat and boil the solutions and burn your finghers through your rubber gloves.. [con't ask HOW I know this! ].
PierceA
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
ooba tooba, cchamelin,
Pleasantly surprised to see some other Slavic foodies here! I am 100% 3rd generation Slovak and one of my favorite dishes is still Kapustny Halushky (cabbage and dumplings).
PierceA, Jock, Shifty, and RTM,
I just went back in the thread to find what had prompted the Kapusta recipe, and saw to my cringeworthy embarrassment that I had missed a whole slew of preceding posts in which much of what I posted was repetitive. My bad.
Pleasantly surprised to see some other Slavic foodies here! I am 100% 3rd generation Slovak and one of my favorite dishes is still Kapustny Halushky (cabbage and dumplings).
PierceA, Jock, Shifty, and RTM,
I just went back in the thread to find what had prompted the Kapusta recipe, and saw to my cringeworthy embarrassment that I had missed a whole slew of preceding posts in which much of what I posted was repetitive. My bad.
Shiftless
Well-known member
(Retired Chemistry teacher here...)
The most common swimming pool acid, hydrochloric acid, HCl aka Muriatic runs 10 moles per liter or 31.5% strength.
The most common swimming pool acid, hydrochloric acid, HCl aka Muriatic runs 10 moles per liter or 31.5% strength.
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PierceA
Well-known member
It's interesting how we feel comfortable with some potentially very dangerous chemical solutions.. I read so often about using vinegar. Well it's acetic acid. I can buy 20% acetic acid, and it smells like vinegar. BUT it is quite dangerous. I use it for cleaning various cooling system parts in antique car engines. BUT when in a strong solution it can be dangerous.
Similar to the TB cleaners, they used to contain HCL. now some don't and they also don't work very well now.. I have a stash of the older stuff so I have something that works.
It's all about knowledge and being conscious of what the hell you are doing!! Properly used many very potentially dangerous chemicals are wonderful tools to use. BUT you must have knowledge and take precautions and have the products ready in the event of a spill or other accident.
Sort of like driving a car that can exceed 150mph.. you don't turn it over to a teenager who just got his driver's license. A vehicle like that can be dangerous if driven carelessly.
Anyway, many products, tools etc can harm, maim or kill, if miss-used or carelessly used. So arm yourself with knowledge and proper precautions.
PierceA
Similar to the TB cleaners, they used to contain HCL. now some don't and they also don't work very well now.. I have a stash of the older stuff so I have something that works.
It's all about knowledge and being conscious of what the hell you are doing!! Properly used many very potentially dangerous chemicals are wonderful tools to use. BUT you must have knowledge and take precautions and have the products ready in the event of a spill or other accident.
Sort of like driving a car that can exceed 150mph.. you don't turn it over to a teenager who just got his driver's license. A vehicle like that can be dangerous if driven carelessly.
Anyway, many products, tools etc can harm, maim or kill, if miss-used or carelessly used. So arm yourself with knowledge and proper precautions.
PierceA