Show your "Long C" Craftsman!

[Private Lugnutz]

Note that DATAMP is only showing patents up to 1940.

Yes, I know. Note that the pipe wrenches in question were produced as early as the mid to late 30's.

Going through the Indexes post 1940 yields TONS of patents assigned to Nye which I'm slowly going through. No pipe wrench yet.....

The volume of things they made prior to 1940 is staggering as well. Vises, cutters, tongs, dies, etc. And on top of that he wrote a monthly column in The Plumber's Journal! I stayed up until 2AM reading them! They weren't even technical. They were philosophical. Something you're more apt to see in The New Yorker or The Atlantic. A Yale grad, waxing poetic in a plumber's journal! The guy was incredible! Here is his Wiki page. And here, and here are two of the better columns. (EDIT: You have to scroll down to the sub-links to page 807 - RADIOS AND RADIATORS, and to page 6 - WHEN A MAN CALLS YOU A DOG.)

But yeah, no pipe wrench. The only thing I have been able to find noteworthy, in the patent domain, is Nye Tool and Machine being sued in court by another company for patent infringement. It's cited in hundreds and hundreds of law journals on-line.

 

[twertsy]

Here is a pipe wrench jaw patent by Albert J. Matter, who had other pipe threading related patents assigned to Nye.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

It's too late (1953) for Long C, though, Todd. That's why I was looking in the 20's and 30's.

 

[twertsy]

Some potential avenues for investigation:

Note that Thewes has patents that he did not assign to Ridge:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US1727623A/en?inventor=William+O+Thewes&sort=old

https://patents.google.com/patent/US1850187A/en?inventor=William+O+Thewes&sort=old&page=1

And none of his Canadian patents were assigned.

John V. Larson of Chicago (early on in the 20's he assigned patents to Armstrong)

Which points to looking at Armstrong. They had a few pipe wrench patents in the '20s and their inventors may lead you somewhere being they're also in Chicago.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Could the “AS” stamped in mine be for Armstrong?

 

[d42jeep]

Could the “AS” stamped in mine be for Armstrong?

That is certainly a thought. Some of the Craftsman manufacturer’s codes are fairly straightforward like LC for Lectrolite. I’m having fun with these comparison shots though. Here is your 14” Craftsman wrench next to an early 10” Ridgid.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks for the leads, Todd. The unassigned Thewes patents is an interesting possibility.

As I said above, I am going to concentrate my research on finding out how it's possible that Erie, Nye, (and by extension, Craftsman) pipe wrenches in the Long C era can resemble a pattern patented by Ridge.

Note that the earliest Ridge pipe wrenches had no stabilizer for the adjusting nut behind the adjusting nut and no swash plate. Both features were part of their patent 1,727,623, granted 9/10/1929. (Note that Stillson pattern pipe wrenches need no stabilizer, with the adjusting nut being located in a recess in the housing itself.) Note that the swash plate is very important in this discussion, because Ridge actually trademarked its specific shape with the USPTO, by description (an "angular bar extending across the head of the wrench"), and with a diagram, on March 1, 1938, citing first use as 7/10/1937. As I have noted before, that means that Ridge wanted to treat the shape of the swash plate as a branding mechanism, explicitly associated with Ridge. Note again that the only thing that really sticks out significantly as a face value distinguishing feature between Erie, Nye, (and again, by extension, Craftsman) and Ridge is the swash plate. If Ridge was licensing its basic pattern to Erie and Nye, or even if there was some kind of co-manufacturing relationship going on (Erie for Ridge, Ridge for Erie, Ridge for Nye, Erie for Nye, etc), those other pipe wrenches with a Ridge pattern would need a different swashplate that wouldn't be mistaken as a Ridge.

I am convinced that the answer is within this triumvirate somewhere.

EDIT: I have a step-by-step tutorial, with patent diagrams, in post #1 of my RIDGID dating thread, linked here.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Twertsy:
It's interesting that on 1,727,623, arguably the most important of the patents, since it introduces the stabilizer (identified by Thewes as a "lug" in this patent, and as a "boss" in subsequent patents), he is not listed as an assignor to Ridge, since he is listed as an assignor previously, and subsequently, and he was still a VP of the company when the patent was applied for and granted (9/10/1929). Is it plausible for a VP of a company to retain patent rights on a design, have the company for which he is an officer make the wrench, but have licensing agreements with other companies to also make the wrench? Would Ridge allow him to do that? If so, that could explain why the Erie and Nye wrenches look like Ridge wrenches. On the other hand, I believe that the patent number only appears on Ridge wrenches. So, curiouser and curiouser.

 

[twertsy]

Twertsy:
It's interesting that on 1,727,623, arguably the most important of the patents, since it introduces the stabilizer (identified by Thewes as a "lug" in this patent, and as a "boss" in subsequent patents), he is not listed as an assignor to Ridge, since he is listed as an assignor previously, and subsequently, and he was still a VP of the company when the patent was applied for and granted (9/10/1929). Is it plausible for a VP of a company to retain patent rights on a design, have the company for which he is an officer make the wrench, but have licensing agreements with other companies to also make the wrench? Would Ridge allow him to do that? If so, that could explain why the Erie and Nye wrenches look like Ridge wrenches. On the other hand, I believe that the patent number only appears on Ridge wrenches. So, curiouser and curiouser.

I can't see that being allowed.......I know I wouldn't!!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[JoCoSawdust]

That is certainly a thought. Some of the Craftsman manufacturer’s codes are fairly straightforward like LC for Lectrolite. I’m having fun with these comparison shots though. Here is your 14” Craftsman wrench next to an early 10” Ridgid.
-Don

Strong resemblance. Here's a mirror shot of your Rigid pic

 

[Private Lugnutz]

JoCo:

When you get a chance, would you please remove the floating jaws from your Craftsman pipe wrenches, put the floating jaws and adjusting nuts aside, and snap a photo of the inside of the channel in the static jaw handle housing in such a way as to capture the entire spring steel guide that is inserted there.

If the guide looks the same on all three wrenches, I only need one photo. If the guides are different, please take a photo of each one that is distinct.

Don,

Would you please do the same for any Erie pipe wrenches you have that are 30's or 40's vintage?

Secondarily, if you have older than wartime Ridge pipe wrenches (with the trapezoidal swash plate), would you please do the same for those?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why?

Since we can't seem to find patents for Nye or Erie, and we can't find any external distinctions between Nye, Erie, Craftsman, and Ridge, other than the shape of the plate extending from the detachable jaw pins upwards along the edge of the static jaw on the housing, I am hoping an examination of the channel guides will be insightful in one way or another.

Not many people pay attention to these guides, and they weren't necessary to figure out how to date Ridge pipe wrenches on my 'Dating Ridge pipe wrenches thread', but Ridge patents in 1929, 1932, 1933, and 1940 introduced a new and distinct design for the guide first included in the 1925 patent. They were obviously trying to perfect a way to stabilize the floating jaw. In 1954, believe it or not, they went back to the 1929 design for the guide, re-using the very same figure! It's not known if any of them were actually produced.

The internal guides in all my wartime Ridge pipe wrenches look like this...

...which is the 1929 design.

Basically, it's a spring steel strap wrapping around three walls of the channel. There is a hidden coil-spring in a recess inside the top of the hump putting pressure on it and those three tongues on the bottom.

I am very curious to see what the guides in the Craftsman and Erie wrenches look like.

 

[sdeeter19555]

Two BE 1/2" drive and I have an eight point socket that is circle H. My Grandfather's stuff.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[d42jeep]

JoCo:

When you get a chance, would you please remove the floating jaws from your Craftsman pipe wrenches, put the floating jaws and adjusting nuts aside, and snap a photo of the inside of the channel in the static jaw handle housing in such a way as to capture the entire spring steel guide that is inserted there.

If the guide looks the same on all three wrenches, I only need one photo. If the guides are different, please take a photo of each one that is distinct.

Don,

Would you please do the same for any Erie pipe wrenches you have that are 30's or 40's vintage?

Secondarily, if you have older than wartime Ridge pipe wrenches (with the trapezoidal swash plate), would you please do the same for those?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why?

Since we can't seem to find patents for Nye or Erie, and we can't find any external distinctions between Nye, Erie, Craftsman, and Ridge, other than the shape of the plate extending from the detachable jaw pins upwards along the edge of the static jaw on the housing, I am hoping an examination of the channel guides will be insightful in one way or another.

Not many people pay attention to these guides, and they weren't necessary to figure out how to date Ridge pipe wrenches on my 'Dating Ridge pipe wrenches thread', but Ridge patents in 1929, 1932, 1933, and 1940 introduced a new and distinct design for the guide first included in the 1925 patent. They were obviously trying to perfect a way to stabilize the floating jaw. In 1954, believe it or not, they went back to the 1929 design for the guide, re-using the very same figure! It's not known if any of them were actually produced.

The internal guides in all my wartime Ridge pipe wrenches look like this...

...which is the 1929 design.

Basically, it's a spring steel strap wrapping around three walls of the channel. There is a hidden coil-spring in a recess inside the top of the hump putting pressure on it and those three tongues on the bottom.

I am very curious to see what the guides in the Craftsman and Erie wrenches look like.

Lugz,
I know of no way to positively date the Erie wrenches. Going with the Ridgid indicators, my black Erie has the wartime shaped jaw and solid knurled adjuster and the red Erie has the different shaped jaw and the split knurled adjuster. Either way the jaw spring is totally different than the Ridgid. They both consist of a coil spring and a spring steel clip to push against the jaw.
The early and wartime Ridgid clips are quite similar to one another. Here are pictures. I’ll show the Erie wrenches first.
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

Lugz,
I know of no way to positively date the Erie wrenches. Going with the Ridgid indicators, my black Erie has the wartime shaped jaw and solid knurled adjuster and the red Erie has the different shaped jaw and the split knurled adjuster. Either way the jaw spring is totally different than the Ridgid. They both consist of a coil spring and a spring steel clip to push against the jaw.
The early and wartime Ridgid clips are quite similar to one another. Here are pictures. I’ll show the Erie wrenches first.
-Don

Okay, here are the early Ridgid wrenches, a 10” and a 14”. As you can probably see, they are quite similar to the wartime clip you posted. I have another early 10” wrench but the clip is totally missing.
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

Just in case you think that will positively ID the Craftsman OE, here is another maker that uses the Erie spring method. I noticed that the method of securing the replaceable lower jaw is different, but this is only a 6” wrench.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks, Don. That separates Erie from Ridge. (Because that doesn't match any of the many Ridge patented guides.) I'll be eager to see what the Craftsman guide looks like.

 

[twertsy]

Thanks, Don. That separates Erie from Ridge. I'll be eager to see what the Craftsman guide looks like.

I will try and stop by the shop today. You might consider starting a "Turning the Screws on Pipe Wrench IDs" thread....

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I thought about that, if only to not side-track this thread, but I was hoping that just a few photos of Erie and Craftsman pipe wrenches would do the trick. Then again, we need Nye, so maybe I will.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Lugz. I'm on the road with work till Thursday of next week. When I get home I'll take those pics.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Two BE 1/2" drive and I have an eight point socket that is circle H. My Grandfather's stuff.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Priceless stuff there. I only have one hand plane that belonged to my Grandpa and it's my most prized possession in regards to tools.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Lugz. I'm on the road with work till Thursday of next week. When I get home I'll take those pics.

Great. Note that I started a separate thread so as not to bog this one down in a deep dive. Look for '"Turning the Screws" on Craftsman Long C pipe wrench OEM ID', a la Todd's suggested wordplay! And if anybody else responds you may not even need to. Thanks.

 

[Magnum440d100]

Every once in a while, I go through my dads toolbox I got when he died, and I clean up and oil the tools. Found this Long C 11/16” 3/8 drive.....

Edit: It is a circle H...

 

[Stevenn1]

I’m guessing these 2 breaker bars are from the 1940s.

 

[Outlawmws]

you would be guessing right; if not earlier...

 

[Magnum440d100]

Picked this up today. I can’t wait to use it

 

[Magnum440d100]

Picked this up in my travels today.

Stamp says BF(?) It is 1/4” drive.

Can anyone tell me any history? I looked at the date chart, but the only BF I found was daido from the 80’s(?) but this is obviously older than that.

Thank you!

 

[LesserSon]

Wouldn’t that be the manufacturer code “BE” - just not a good strike on the “E” so it looks like an “F”?

 

[JoCoSawdust]

I agree. BE with a weak strike on the E.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

JoCo: the link for your photos of the internal floating jaw guide mechanisms in your Craftsman pipe wrenches is here.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Thanks Lugz. I’m stopping by a couple of places Saturday on my way home to see if I can snag a prewar Nye.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Awesome. Good luck! I've been looking harder than I usually do at pipe wrenches as I make my rounds ever since this popped up. So far, nothing.

 

[Username already in use]

I picked up this Craftsman 1/2 H.P. grinder from the flea last weekend. It didn't work so I took a chance at $25. Dunno why, but these things are BUILT, so I had high hopes.

I get into it today and notice that the power cord is all kinds of old and crumbly. So, let's start there... Well, one replacement power cord and it was back in business. Love it when it's a simple fix!

Probably could use a repaint. The original royal blue color can still be seen under the base of the grinder.

Looks like this model was made from about 1934 through the war years. Model number 115.6332 makes this a Packard Electric Co. sourced motor.

 

[Outlawmws]

I would love to find one of the old Long C grinders. I don't think that many were sold on the left coast before or during the war...

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I picked up this Craftsman 1/2 H.P. grinder from the flea last weekend.

Wow. Dude you been kinda quiet and absent but you came back with a vengeance!

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Damn. Nice grinder! I'm insanely jealous

 

[bmwrd0]

I have one, that I picked up in Berkeley years ago. And yes, this thing is a breast!

I restored it, going off of the colors under the base. Not perfect, but it look not unlike yours at the time, and it also had a crumbling power cord.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

You guys are killing me with those long C grinders! A must have on my list

 

[Username already in use]

I would love to find one of the old Long C grinders. I don't think that many were sold on the left coast before or during the war...

Shipping is probably prohibitive, but if you ever make it to Ohio...

Wow. Dude you been kinda quiet and absent but you came back with a vengeance!

Haha! Thanks, Lugz. Lots of demands on my time recently. Plus a well needed vacation! It's getting warmer with every passing weekend, so the local fleas should be in full swing soon.

Damn. Nice grinder! I'm insanely jealous

Thanks! I'm super happy that it was such and easy fix.

I have one, that I picked up in Berkeley years ago. And yes, this thing is a beast!

I restored it, going off of the colors under the base. Not perfect, but it look not unlike yours at the time, and it also had a crumbling power cord.

Yours looks great! That color looks about spot on to what's on the underside of mine. What color did you use?

 

[bmwrd0]

Honestly, it was whatever seemed close at HD in the spray paint aisle. Rustoleum Royal Blue, if I remember right.

 

[LesserSon]

This just in...a pretty nice, but definitely used, 1/2” wood socket chisel. Usually in this area, these things continue to get beaten on long after the wood handle is in splinters, and then some more, until reforging would be the only way to get a new handle back onto it.
Does it say “BP” in front of “USA”? Wonder what that is, an OEM code? “Bridgeport Mfg Co” comes to mind.