And there I was trying to search for who Hillman was. lol. They made them for Proto too.
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Spreading the Bonney affliction!
- Thread starter bonneyman
- Start date
And there I was trying to search for who Hillman was. lol. They made them for Proto too.
four.cycle
Well-known member
Most of those were manufactured either by Ullman or Shaw/Aircraft Specialties/SE Tools, re-branded for various other tool companies:
Ullman / Ullman Devices Corporation, 664 Danbury Road, Ridgefield CT 06877 / https://ullmandevices.com/ / patent 2150184 Mar 14 1939 George F. Pearson /
Aircraft / Aircraft Specialties Inc., Lapeer, MI / originally of Philadelphia, PA, moved to Lapeer, MI 1938 by Otto Shaw, acquired by Shaw Enterprises/SE Tools 1995 / see SE Tools / patent 2124757 Jul 26 1938 William Vaughan & 2150184 Mar 14 1939 George F. Pearson & 3288184 Nov 29 1966 & 3510902 May 12 1970 & 3582123 Jun 1 1971 Smith Kyser / https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/smith-kyser-pat-3-582-123.439205/ /
SE / SE Tools, 415 Howard St., Lapeer, MI 48446 / https://www.setools.com/ / est. 1934 / see also Shaw Enterprises Inc., Aircraft Specialties Inc. /
Shaw / Shaw Enterprises Inc., Lapeer, MI see SE Tools /
Screw Starters thread
another show us your screw starters thread
My own Ullman-manufactured, Indesto-branded screw starters
Here is a Bonney wrench I have owned for a while. It is a 1 1/2" x 1 3/4" DBE. I could not find a date code, but it has a six-sided forged wrench grip for turning leverage, and has a "0795" and separately a "X3157" on one side. Neither of these designations bring up anything in my searches. It is bent at close to a perfect bent at 90°, which may be due to a PO. Does anyone have any knowledge on this baby? Thanks.
Attachments
I picked up this A50B set at Jake’s Flea last Sunday. It’s not pristine: The box is rusty with 50% paint loss, A702K ratchet is frozen (working on that now), A605 5”ext has pipewrench toothmarks around the shaft, A28 cracked (almost completely split), A22 chrome lost, A30 replaced with a Craftsman 47513 (-vv-).
All pieces are marked Triangle-era (I added the earlier spline bit from a separate purchase), except for the MB46 metal box, which has a Miller / Kelsey-Hayes logo under the lid.
I suppose - unless a PO swapped the contents of a blowmold box into this metal box - this means Triangle used up remaing stock of the Miller/K-H/Utica boxes before switching to blowmolds. I wonder if any metal boxes have the Utica/Bonney logo?
Then the ratchet. 1967 catalog shows the A702K with the “Mercedes-Benz” 3-spoked direction-selector switch individually, while the set illustrations retain the earlier AA707H ratchets (but listing the A702K). This A702K has the single bar switch. Maybe the 3-spoke switch only lasted a year or so, from Rozmus patent applied for, to granted?
Then the sockets. The 1967 catalog lists all 12-lobe sockets. This set includes 6pt AH14,15,16, which is what we find in the 1977 catalog included in the B80407 set (also includes a 6pt 13/16 sparkplug socket).
It would be revelatory to have catalogs from the early 1970s, showing when, exactly, the transitions of selector switch, metal-to-blowmold, logo, and 12-lobe-to-6pt occurred.
From the available clues (and ignoring the possibility of PO box-swapping) I think this set is from 1968 or a little later.
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Mikeske
Well-known member
The tri-wing selector switch as far as I can tell lasted about three years with 1967 being the first year before Bonney changed to the single blade style selector switch. I am assuming that the reason for the switch was cost of manufacturing as it is far easier to do the switch.
I picked up this A50B set at Jake’s Flea last Sunday. It’s not pristine: The box is rusty with 50% paint loss, A702K ratchet is frozen (working on that now), A605 5”ext has pipewrench toothmarks around the shaft, A28 cracked (almost completely split), A22 chrome lost, A30 replaced with a Craftsman 47513 (-vv-).
All pieces are marked Triangle-era (I added the earlier spline bit from a separate purchase), except for the MB46 metal box, which has a Miller / Kelsey-Hayes logo under the lid.
I suppose - unless a PO swapped the contents of a blowmold box into this metal box - this means Triangle used up remaing stock of the Miller/K-H/Utica boxes before switching to blowmolds. I wonder if any metal boxes have the Utica/Bonney logo?
Then the ratchet. 1967 catalog shows the A702K with the “Mercedes-Benz” 3-spoked direction-selector switch individually, while the set illustrations retain the earlier AA707H ratchets (but listing the A702K). This A702K has the single bar switch. Maybe the 3-spoke switch only lasted a year or so, from Rozmus patent applied for, to granted?
Then the sockets. The 1967 catalog lists all 12-lobe sockets. This set includes 6pt AH14,15,16, which is what we find in the 1977 catalog included in the B80407 set (also includes a 6pt 13/16 sparkplug socket).
It would be revelatory to have catalogs from the early 1970s, showing when, exactly, the transitions of selector switch, metal-to-blowmold, logo, and 12-lobe-to-6pt occurred.
From the available clues (and ignoring the possibility of PO box-swapping) I think this set is from 1968 or a little later.
Thanks. Other than the metal box itself, I would unhesitatingly have placed this in the 1970s (or even a bit later), which I think I did when I posted on the GS thread. The box just got me thinking earlier.
EDIT - for those who don’t recall the two selector switches under discussion, here are two 3/8dr examples, I happened to be cleaning today.
EDIT - for those who don’t recall the two selector switches under discussion, here are two 3/8dr examples, I happened to be cleaning today.
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Oldtuleguy
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Langenau made those for a number of companies, given the brown interior that's a bonney
Thanks to gifts and continued hunting, I now have nicely-matched S-wrenches ABCDE, the full set shown on pp32-33 of the 1914 catalog.
The B has a cracked jaw, so the hunt continues.
Mikeske
Well-known member
I just use a paper towel moisten with some dollar store soap called Awesome on my cases. BTW nice set.
Oh yeah, I saw a video using that Awesome Cleaner stuff and I was wondering if it was the real deal. Maybe I should buy a quart and check it out.
Mikeske
Well-known member
The Awesome soap works gently and well and is a lot cheaper then other brands
Provincial
Well-known member
A friend borrowed my Ammco cylinder sizing hone and reports that a spray bottle with Awesome worked perfectly as lubricant honing cast iron bores.
z28lsc
Well-known member
INTERESTING acquisition this weekend: a “T28A” ratchet. I noticed the 1/4dr through a baggie of wrenches on a vendor’s table, and seized the opportunity. The size of the rat body (underscored by the “T” prefix, which usually indicates 3/8dr) did not escape my notice, and I was eager to get home to compare it to my 3/8dr T28. Well, here they are.
The fixed 1/4dr hole in the tail made me think of RF ratchests, but the body is not very similar.
NOW, to set about finding a 1/4dr plug…
The fixed 1/4dr hole in the tail made me think of RF ratchests, but the body is not very similar.
NOW, to set about finding a 1/4dr plug…
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
It's not very dissimilar, either, though, in a broader context, especially with the 1/4-inch square opening in the tail, and especially when the T28 is not provisioned with one. Granted, made by Adapting the T28. But still, some kind of predecessor. Also, remember that Bonney wasn't even making an "ES" (Extra Small) series ratchet for the longest time. In 1933, when they introduced the series in 9/32-inch drive, the sets only had a sliding tee and extension. By 1939, when they switched to 1/4-inch drive, they still weren't equipping their ES sets with a ratchet, adding only a spinner. So it's not like they were committed. Somehow it all makes sense they would try backing into it with a downsized drive plug in a T28 frame.
That's a really cool find!
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
@LesserSon
In double-checking the facts of my running theory in post #5,740 above, which I am now 100% sure of - i.e., no true 9/32- or 1/4-inch drive ratchet of any kind until 1943 (V25), I spotted the T28A on page 9 of the 1941 Catalog No. 41R (Bonney Tools for Refrigeration Service), linked here!
In double-checking the facts of my running theory in post #5,740 above, which I am now 100% sure of - i.e., no true 9/32- or 1/4-inch drive ratchet of any kind until 1943 (V25), I spotted the T28A on page 9 of the 1941 Catalog No. 41R (Bonney Tools for Refrigeration Service), linked here!
Thanks for the research, Lugz - that’s a catalog I hadn’t downloaded to date. Led me to 39R, too!
I haven’t been successful reading the barely-visible date code on the ratchet - the 1st letter seems to be an L, but the 2nd letter…I was tentatively guessing N, but P or R would be more consistent with appearing in the 1939 or 1941 cats.
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Fabulous buy! Absolutely fabulous1
Provincial
Well-known member
That is the "Loc Rite" patent for Off-point grip. It was used for crowfoot-style tools, and I found a 3/8" size one this June. It had a Utica part number, but that number was listed in the Bonney catalog at that time. Triangle Era.
I have accumulated a set of the Kelsey Hayes version that predated the Triangle Era. I love them, especially on brass and aluminum fittings.
Picked these up this morning, fooled by the Craftsman Vanadium in the sleeve into thinking it was a complete Zenel No20 set. I saw the Zenel E28 (which I needed), hiding behind the H18, so I bought the whole pouch.
No problem - I have a spare H14 of the right era, though it’s not 1936-1937 like the others in the set.
Picked up this set of big 1/2" drive Bonney USA crowfoot wrenches for $20. I couldn't pass them up. 1 1/8" to 2 1/4".
I made a holder from 1/2" keystock a couple of 1/4" pins from the harbor freight assortment. I'm sure I'll have a use for them any day now.
I made a holder from 1/2" keystock a couple of 1/4" pins from the harbor freight assortment. I'm sure I'll have a use for them any day now.
Holy smokes! What a deal!Picked up this set of big 1/2" drive Bonney USA crowfoot wrenches for $20. I couldn't pass them up. 1 1/8" to 2 1/4".
I made a holder from 1/2" keystock a couple of 1/4" pins from the harbor freight assortment. I'm sure I'll have a use for them any day now.
And if you can use them even more so.
Not sure if I will ever have a need for them, but I'll be ready.
z28lsc
Well-known member
Bonney 3/8 fixed breaker bar.
Oldtuleguy
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I found another 2880 (half-moon) that also seems to support pre-1946 availability; in this case 1944 via the "V" date code...
I believe I have a newer one of those in 9/16" x 5/8". Did starter bolts get smaller over the years?
I found another 2880 (half-moon) that also seems to support pre-1946 availability; in this case 1944 via the "V" date code...
Provincial
Well-known member
Starter bolts did get smaller heads as time went on. Sometimes it was because the manufacturer changed to smaller diameter alloy steel bolts, and sometimes it was because they realized that they didn't need as big a bolt/nut.
Beerhippie
Well-known member
And then they made then inaccessible without completely removing the rest of the vehicle... progress....
Mintgrun
Well-known member
I was hoping to have found the first grease cup pliers in this thread, but LS and Lugz both shared pairs upstream (post #899 and #3,831, respectively). These are a little different though, in that the stamp does not include battery terminals and they're marked PATENT APPLIED FOR; which puts their production somewhere between Feb. 25, 1919 and Feb. 24, 1920.
I suspect the straighter leg is slightly bent, but I think I'll leave it that way; since I've broken two pairs of pliers while attempting to straighten them. Could that grey paint be original?
Someone on the Vintage Machinery site said there were two jaw styles, but the grippy portion of mine look the same as the two above. Here's the VM quote.
"Produced as the Bonney Grease Cup Pliers (Pat. Appl'd For) and the Bonney Battery Terminal and Grease Cup Pliers (Pat. Feb. 24, 1920). The interior jaw surfaces vary. One style of jaws grasps the knurled rim of the top cap on grease cups; the other style will also grasp battery cable end clamps, and battery terminal posts."
( http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=11539&tab=7 ).
Tom
I suspect the straighter leg is slightly bent, but I think I'll leave it that way; since I've broken two pairs of pliers while attempting to straighten them. Could that grey paint be original?
Someone on the Vintage Machinery site said there were two jaw styles, but the grippy portion of mine look the same as the two above. Here's the VM quote.
"Produced as the Bonney Grease Cup Pliers (Pat. Appl'd For) and the Bonney Battery Terminal and Grease Cup Pliers (Pat. Feb. 24, 1920). The interior jaw surfaces vary. One style of jaws grasps the knurled rim of the top cap on grease cups; the other style will also grasp battery cable end clamps, and battery terminal posts."
( http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=11539&tab=7 ).
Tom
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Well, you found the earliest!
It's cool the way they embedded the 'Princeton shield' logo inside the marking, which they couldn't do with the additional use case, moving it to the right.