Tools from the old world
- Thread starter Monte
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"Beater" was used colloquially here, i.e. the set that gets used when you don't want to risk something you like more.
That said, sometimes whacking a screwdriver can help loosen a fastener. The only PH screwdrivers I had with a striking cap before these HZs were Felo woodies. Felo woodies are simply too nice to use that way. Not because of price - Felo woodies are probably underpriced; if they made woodies their flagship line and started charging $30 a driver you'd see an outpouring of people claiming they're the best thing ever - but because of design and quality.
I think the design is interesting for a do-it-all kind of set. I had expected the shear blades to be thin like a cable shear, but they're actually very thick. Ultimately I don't think that people with lots of different pliers readily available to them will have much use for these.
Those look and sound from your description a lot like the OEMTools sockets.
They are fine tools and very reasonably priced. Those are also thicker than something Stahlwille, Proto, etc.
Interesting that the Matador ratchet is dual pawl in the Proto/Koken style.
PiperCub49
Well-known member
Not long ago, mrspeed showed us his Bahco 7750 3/8"-drive ratchet with Dual 80 internals, strikingly similar to the Snap-on F80. I got one recently and thought I’d add a few photos.
It comes in a box that says “Made in SPAIN”. No bag, service instructions, warranty paperwork, or anything else is included. I’m curious how this compares to Snap-on F80 packaging.
The ratchet weighs 263.6 g on a calibrated balance. Model number on the shaft:
Head is a little thinner than it looks here (camera was closer to side of head than square drive):
The head is blank steel and oddly attractive:
Slightly unnecessary messages stamped into the cover plate:
And the guts. These are intricately designed and expensively machined compared to other ratchets I own. For example, I count three springs. Usually I prefer simpler designs, but Snap-on claims this 80-tooth mechanism can withstand 250 ft lb (340 Nm) of torque. There was enough oil that some had leaked out, seals or no. Anyone know what oil is used by Bahco or Snap-on in these? Click for a bigger version:
It comes in a box that says “Made in SPAIN”. No bag, service instructions, warranty paperwork, or anything else is included. I’m curious how this compares to Snap-on F80 packaging.
The ratchet weighs 263.6 g on a calibrated balance. Model number on the shaft:
Head is a little thinner than it looks here (camera was closer to side of head than square drive):
The head is blank steel and oddly attractive:
Slightly unnecessary messages stamped into the cover plate:
And the guts. These are intricately designed and expensively machined compared to other ratchets I own. For example, I count three springs. Usually I prefer simpler designs, but Snap-on claims this 80-tooth mechanism can withstand 250 ft lb (340 Nm) of torque. There was enough oil that some had leaked out, seals or no. Anyone know what oil is used by Bahco or Snap-on in these? Click for a bigger version:
If ordered from Snap-on direct, their ratchets are loose in shipping box, also with no instructions or other paperwork. No individual box as your Bahco. If multiple are ordered, they may be in separate plain plastic bags.
Dakkyz
Well-known member
There should be a seal looks like it's stuck onto the Gear it self.
Snap on from the factory use Super Lube you also get little bag with super lube inside ratchet repair kits, as for packaging, I'm not sure snap on box their ratchets they bag them oil them and then ship them to where ever, to be sold.
The PAT number is the same as my SO ratchets, so genuine snap on guts inside.
I have only got the chrome versions of snap on ratchet's they all came in a bag with some sort of oil that would not come off..
Snap on from the factory use Super Lube you also get little bag with super lube inside ratchet repair kits, as for packaging, I'm not sure snap on box their ratchets they bag them oil them and then ship them to where ever, to be sold.
The PAT number is the same as my SO ratchets, so genuine snap on guts inside.
I have only got the chrome versions of snap on ratchet's they all came in a bag with some sort of oil that would not come off..
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Yeah, I saw the seal. Just noticed it wasn’t enough to stop a slight oil leak, mainly because the mechanism was swimming in oil. Not complaining!
I would prefer an all-steel handle, but not at Snap-on prices while the Bahco is still available for less.
I would prefer an all-steel handle, but not at Snap-on prices while the Bahco is still available for less.
They do look similar. If they come from the same manufacturer it would make the Matador socket sets not so good value.
They are some nice and sharp looking photos.
As above, the Snap on tools I've ordered have come with clear bags.I respect your crusade, put those bastards in their place!
Great pictures and write up!
Speaking of Bahco packaging with Made in Spain on the box, here's an interesting one. I recently ordered another 24" Bahco (Snap On) breaker bar as a gift, and this one came in packaging that had the correct part number, 8170-1/2, and says Made in Spain, even though the tool itself has the same part number with Made in USA stamped into the handle. I wonder if the packaging is for an older version of the tool that used to be made in Spain, or if they just don't care what they put on the packaging.
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Used the Matador ratchet today and found a bit of a fault. One of the pawls is loose which results in some play in the mechanism. The lower pawl is retained in a slot. To remove it you slide it out of the slot up towards the camera. The upper pawl is not retained at all. The pawls are identical so the issue remains if they are swapped round so I assume that the recess for the upper pawl is too big. Hopefully the seller will exchange it for another one.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/EVQ4MEVi08Y" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Edit. Just noticed some conflicting info on the bill.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/EVQ4MEVi08Y" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Edit. Just noticed some conflicting info on the bill.
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Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Am I the only one that finds it odd that the gear cover for the made in Spain Bahco 7750 ratchet is stamped with English text and US patent numbers? 
Great ratchet though
Great ratchet though
garfieldzzz
Well-known member
I bought some for work (Germany) but it was quite a pain to get them. There were some discussions involved with PBSwiss and our retailer but we got them at the end. They were the only ones to keep up with some odd special bolts. Neither Snap on, Hazet or Stahlwille did before. Super nice finish.
rsk4today
Active member
Am I the only one that finds it odd that the gear cover for the made in Spain Bahco 7750 ratchet is stamped with English text and US patent numbers?
Great ratchet though
The Bahco 7750 uses the same internals as the Snap on F80 ratchet. The markings on the cover plates of the two ratchets are the same.
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theamcguy
Well-known member
Anyone tried any Matador tools recently? Kind of like the look of their Z90 ratchet.
Also Screw it!
After a lot of searching I found the distributor for Matador Tools in the US; it is Samstag Tools in Carthage, TN. They do not stock the ScrewIt tool but can special order it from Germany. The price is $39.00 ea and it took about 6 weeks. This is a special one time tool from the Matador Tools. I ordered 2 and they came last week.
rhys99
Well-known member
^ They are really good value on ebay. Don't think you could get a better ratchet for the price.
Matador replied to my email about COO. I asked specifically about the '3075' range of sockets and asked why they no longer have 'Germany' stamped on them. I think it was good of them to take the time to reply.
Thank you for your interest in our products. Except for very few exceptions we generally do not stamp our articles with "Made in Germany" even if they are produced in Germany.
The sockets are manufactured by a sub-contractor according to our specifications and drawings and we buy them as semi-finished parts. As a traditional and conservative manufacturer we would not consider them as a strict "Made in Germany" product as we only do some of the overall working steps in our factory in Remscheid, Germany. We hope you are happy with that.
Can anyone say what they think these 'working steps' are? Anything more than a buff and clean?
An older post about Matador tools. Familiar story involving outsourcing manufacturing.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=255645
Matador replied to my email about COO. I asked specifically about the '3075' range of sockets and asked why they no longer have 'Germany' stamped on them. I think it was good of them to take the time to reply.
Thank you for your interest in our products. Except for very few exceptions we generally do not stamp our articles with "Made in Germany" even if they are produced in Germany.
The sockets are manufactured by a sub-contractor according to our specifications and drawings and we buy them as semi-finished parts. As a traditional and conservative manufacturer we would not consider them as a strict "Made in Germany" product as we only do some of the overall working steps in our factory in Remscheid, Germany. We hope you are happy with that.
Can anyone say what they think these 'working steps' are? Anything more than a buff and clean?
An older post about Matador tools. Familiar story involving outsourcing manufacturing.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=255645
I find the adjustment on Knipex Cobra pliers to be a little fiddly and annoying so gave some VBW (Stahlwille) Alligator style pliers a try. Model number 966-315 (300mm).
VBW has a few more teeth.
I tried both pliers on various sized objects to see which was the quickest and easiest to adjust. Probably obvious but having only seven relatively widely spaced adjustment settings on the VBW means that on certain objects you have to put up with the handles being far apart. The Cobra's can be finely adjusted to keep the handles closer together and so easier to grapple with. Knipex Alligator pliers look to have nine settings. Not sure if this gives a finer adjustment compared to the VBW or just a wider overall jaw opening. I must say that I appreciate the Cobra pliers more now.
The black finish on the VBW pliers appears thicker and less durable than the finish on the Knipex as it looks a little dinged up just from storage and transportation.
Not sure if it makes any difference to function but something I noticed is that the VBW handles flex quite a bit more than the Cobra handles. Also should note that I have never directly compared VBW and Stahlwille pliers so don't know if they really are exactly the same but with different coloured handles.
VBW has a few more teeth.
I tried both pliers on various sized objects to see which was the quickest and easiest to adjust. Probably obvious but having only seven relatively widely spaced adjustment settings on the VBW means that on certain objects you have to put up with the handles being far apart. The Cobra's can be finely adjusted to keep the handles closer together and so easier to grapple with. Knipex Alligator pliers look to have nine settings. Not sure if this gives a finer adjustment compared to the VBW or just a wider overall jaw opening. I must say that I appreciate the Cobra pliers more now.
The black finish on the VBW pliers appears thicker and less durable than the finish on the Knipex as it looks a little dinged up just from storage and transportation.
Not sure if it makes any difference to function but something I noticed is that the VBW handles flex quite a bit more than the Cobra handles. Also should note that I have never directly compared VBW and Stahlwille pliers so don't know if they really are exactly the same but with different coloured handles.
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Dakkyz
Well-known member
I would hope they get them as a forged basic shape, then do the stamping, machining, cleaning and heat treatment, and chroming, but very unlikely.
The finish, and quality is too high to suggest most of it was done in germany, no imperfections on any of the sockets I have compared to Elora, and Gedore.
Best guess would be they are the same subcontractor who make Sonic Tools sockets, as they are basically the same just different brand stamping.
jimmyin3D
Banned
Check out toollady.com they carry both PB Swiss Hex and torx sockets.
Like the grooves cut into the head of that ratchet. Might help with grip when you're "palming" it.
And that extractor looks freaking cool, too.
It's a shame. I was hoping that they may be an interesting alternative to the main German tools brands.
measuredtwice
Well-known member
The reply skillfully avoided saying where they are actually made. Hahaha!
Some limited edition '100 year anniversary' tools and promo stuff from Unior.
https://uniortools.com/eng/category/946716/limited-edition-100-years
Not sure why the mannequins are not wearing and trousers
Unior is another company selling tools with mystery COO. I have looked at some of their tools at my local tool store and couldn't find any COO info on the tools or packaging. They are said to make some tools in Slovenia where they are located but have read here that their 1/4" sockets and maybe other sizes are from Taiwan.
https://uniortools.com/eng/category/946716/limited-edition-100-years
Not sure why the mannequins are not wearing and trousers
Unior is another company selling tools with mystery COO. I have looked at some of their tools at my local tool store and couldn't find any COO info on the tools or packaging. They are said to make some tools in Slovenia where they are located but have read here that their 1/4" sockets and maybe other sizes are from Taiwan.
Really? Do you have a link to the thread? I thought they made pretty much everything at home in Slovenia. Their 1/2"-drive sockets are immensely strong. I’ve been amazed at the torque they have tolerated. Their special bicycle tools are also very, very good – clearly made of better steel than the Park Tool equivalents that I have owned. (But Park Tool items are often made in China nowadays, so perhaps that isn’t shocking.)
BajaScout
Well-known member
Not a lot to go off but noted while reading through old posts on this thread. Pretty sure 'Jure' was someone who had/has reliable info. Maybe it's just the 1/4" tools.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4331649&postcount=20496
Dakkyz
Well-known member
Yeah I have a few of their spanners, and pliers found them stupidly cheap on amazon and the profile on their spanners is different and pliers seem nice quality as well.
No COO on anything either I thought the spanners might have had something.
Just been on the Wiha website. Haven't noticed this slotted tip profile from before. Have they always looked like this or is it something new?
I have one of this for a couple of years, and it one of my favorite screwdrivers
Dave455
Well-known member
Just been on the Wiha website. Haven't noticed this slotted tip profile from before. Have they always looked like this or is it something new?
Wow! That's a traditional "flared tip". No, not something you generally see on modern drivers. I suspect the balance is very nice.
Usually, when a modern manufacturer re introduces an old pattern, they find that there were some very good reasons why that pattern evolved.
It's nice to be given a choice, and set of those would sit very well in my woodworking box, next to my Estwing "English Pattern" hammer - another fine product to which the same comments apply!
Stahlwille 504 18 1/2" breaker bar.
There is no ball detent or other mechanism in the pivot to hold a socket parallel to the bar. Currently the pivot is tight enough to hold a socket parallel but I imagine it will loosen after a few uses.
Packaging and bar marked 'Made in Germany.'
Eclipse Plus 30 300mm hacksaw blades. 18, 24, 32 TPI.
RS Components website lists coo as 'GB' and there is a Spear & Jackson Sheffield address on the packaging but no coo markings on the blades or packaging.
There is no ball detent or other mechanism in the pivot to hold a socket parallel to the bar. Currently the pivot is tight enough to hold a socket parallel but I imagine it will loosen after a few uses.
Packaging and bar marked 'Made in Germany.'
Eclipse Plus 30 300mm hacksaw blades. 18, 24, 32 TPI.
RS Components website lists coo as 'GB' and there is a Spear & Jackson Sheffield address on the packaging but no coo markings on the blades or packaging.
dutchgray
Well-known member
Unior stuff that I have is fine, I have a few spanners, couple screwdrivers somewhere and some sockets. If you can get it for a decent price I wouldn't hesitate to buy Unior.
Jack84
Well-known member
I forgot to turn off one of my searches for Wiha ratchets after finding the Koken x Wiha flex head unicorns, and this popped up. I thought the ratchet might be another Koken x Wiha unicorn (based on the head shape, selector design, and screw placement), and I didn’t have any “nut grip” type sockets, so I thought what the hell.
View media item 95105
The set includes 1/4” drive sockets with spring retention of the fastener (4-13mm), a ratchet and spinner handle with Microfinish handles, a sliding T-handle, two extensions, a universal joint, and bit assortment (metric ball hex “magic ring” hex power bits, metric hex “magic ring” bits, torx, PH1-3, PZ1-3) in a three-layer foam inlay. The spinner handle unfortunately does not have a female square on top.
View media item 95106
It was made post-Wende, because the spinner handle just says “Made in Germany.” COO types would want to know that the spinner handle is the only piece so labeled. (Even then, that just means the plastic bits are German-made; the Soft finish handle on the Koken x Wiha ratchet also says Made in Germany.
View media item 95107
When I picked up the ratchet, I was a little disappointed. It had a battleaxe-type feel, like a Williams. Opening it proved beyond doubt that it was not Koken. This Wiha ratchet has a single pawl. I don’t know who might’ve made it.
View media item 95110
As for the nut-grip sockets, they weren’t the modified Heycos I was expecting. I have no idea who Wiha’s OEM is. They’re finished like Hazets, with grippy knurling, though they’re not quite as nice. The 13mm is about the same OD as Hazet, but 4mm is considerably thicker.
View media item 95111
Does anyone know anything about this set?
View media item 95105
The set includes 1/4” drive sockets with spring retention of the fastener (4-13mm), a ratchet and spinner handle with Microfinish handles, a sliding T-handle, two extensions, a universal joint, and bit assortment (metric ball hex “magic ring” hex power bits, metric hex “magic ring” bits, torx, PH1-3, PZ1-3) in a three-layer foam inlay. The spinner handle unfortunately does not have a female square on top.
View media item 95106
It was made post-Wende, because the spinner handle just says “Made in Germany.” COO types would want to know that the spinner handle is the only piece so labeled. (Even then, that just means the plastic bits are German-made; the Soft finish handle on the Koken x Wiha ratchet also says Made in Germany.
View media item 95107
When I picked up the ratchet, I was a little disappointed. It had a battleaxe-type feel, like a Williams. Opening it proved beyond doubt that it was not Koken. This Wiha ratchet has a single pawl. I don’t know who might’ve made it.
View media item 95110
As for the nut-grip sockets, they weren’t the modified Heycos I was expecting. I have no idea who Wiha’s OEM is. They’re finished like Hazets, with grippy knurling, though they’re not quite as nice. The 13mm is about the same OD as Hazet, but 4mm is considerably thicker.
View media item 95111
Does anyone know anything about this set?
^ 
Wish they sold that nut spinner separately. I've found Wiha's Microfinish handles to be exceptional for use with oily hands. Googling the part number doesn't bring up any matches apart from your pics.
I've been using Stahlwille 14 spanners for a while now and have found that the open ends spread and deform quite easily. Not sure if it's because I'm not used to the extra length and therefore extra leverage or if they are a bit soft. Going to try Hazet again and maybe the Toptul long spanners to compare.
Wish they sold that nut spinner separately. I've found Wiha's Microfinish handles to be exceptional for use with oily hands. Googling the part number doesn't bring up any matches apart from your pics. I've been using Stahlwille 14 spanners for a while now and have found that the open ends spread and deform quite easily. Not sure if it's because I'm not used to the extra length and therefore extra leverage or if they are a bit soft. Going to try Hazet again and maybe the Toptul long spanners to compare.
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Dakkyz
Well-known member
^
Hazet 600LG will still deform under load they feel a little soft, TopTul I haven't really put that much stress on the open end, but they do flex on the ring end.
Hazet 600LG will still deform under load they feel a little soft, TopTul I haven't really put that much stress on the open end, but they do flex on the ring end.