Tools from the old world

[Samuel D]

Mr.Lemons’s test is interesting, because it’s human nature to be curious.

But when would you heave on a 10 mm fastener in that manner? And with the open end of the spanner?

My other concern is that the same damaged Allen key was used repeatedly. How do we know each tool was applied at the same spot and that that spot wasn’t yet damaged? The object is to grip an undamaged fastener, not one in an arbitrary state of wear.

All the same, as I said, interesting.

Better to measure with the fat midsections of the jaws. The calliper and Allen key have elasticity and deform under the lightest thumb pressure when the bladed tips of the jaws are used.

It’s also hard to be sure the jaws are measuring the narrowest (i.e. true) section of the Allen key when using the bladed tips.

 

[dubdoc]

Would anyone have any history on Dowidat tools? I've had these three wrenches in my box forever, but don't know where they came from.

 

[TjoFrasse]

Would anyone have any history on Dowidat tools? I've had these three wrenches in my box forever, but don't know where they came from.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30102

Dowidat was a company founded 1949 by one of the remaining 2 Dowidat brothers (the 3rd. died at younger age) because of disagreements of the 2 (much like the "Dassler" brothers --> Adidas/Puma). So the one Dowidat brother stayed in the Gedore company (founded by them) and the other left to open up his own "Dowidat" company. Later Dowidat merged with "Belzer" to form "Belzer-Dowidat" and then in 1988 they were bought by Bahco. The Dowidat name then disappeared and tools were sold under the Bahco-Belzer brand but thats history too.

 

[Kasal]

some things from, Toptul

 

[Reed Prince]

Facom 506A

Felo 32350 T-handle hex bit holder and 52673 self-adjusting screw holder

 

[upgrading]

Nice PB Swiss stuff.

 

[wout]

Very happy with my new arrivals from Remscheid.

Wout

 

[measuredtwice]

This Wiha is wobbly. Works sorta like how a wobble extension operates.

http://i.imgur.com/ofO7bZb.jpg


Facom 506A

http://i.imgur.com/8o4Msxr.jpg


Felo 32350 T-handle hex bit holder and 52673 self-adjusting screw holder

http://i.imgur.com/nLhIh04.jpg

Nice!

Very happy with my new arrivals from Remscheid.

Wout

Wout! There it is! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whoot,_There_It_Is)

 

[scubadoober]

Odd thing is, you see a fair bit of Stahlwille in the aerospace world. But... look closely. It’s not the same. If they are using a combination wrench, it’s not a ‘13’, but a ‘130’. Not a ‘23’ ring spanner, but a ‘230’. These ‘aircraft grade’’ tools are readily available, but at much higher price.... .

Not exactly true. Aircrafts use SAE fasteners so that is the main difference. However, they also have to meet military standards which are different than DIN/ISO standards so lower volume means higher cost. Also the Stahlwille spanners with zeros are made with a different steel, but it is free if cadmium so therefore safe to use in titanium fasteners. There are no metric "zero" spanners outside of the 220 series (and they are fantastic) so it isn't a matter of a higher standard. It is simply a different standard. You could always buy a 130a and SAE hex to settle your mind.

 

[Dave455]

Not exactly true. Aircrafts use SAE fasteners so that is the main difference. However, they also have to meet military standards which are different than DIN/ISO standards so lower volume means higher cost. Also the Stahlwille spanners with zeros are made with a different steel, but it is free if cadmium so therefore safe to use in titanium fasteners. There are no metric "zero" spanners outside of the 220 series (and they are fantastic) so it isn't a matter of a higher standard. It is simply a different standard. You could always buy a 130a and SAE hex to settle your mind.

When a I refer to a “13” wrench, I’m including the “13a” in Imperial/SAE. So, in inch sizes you have both a “13a” regular, and a “130a” aerospace spec, so there are more differences than just the sizes.

Yes, I realise they don’t make these in metric, and they are different steel, but it’s interesting that they need to offer a different range to meet the aerospace specs, when Snap On can meet most of them with their regular tools!

I have a handful of the Stahlwille 460a sockets. They seem to be superb and have no noticeable wear, so I’m definitely thinking they are better quality than the regular sockets, not just different!

I always thought that the 220 was probably a superb wrench, but I don’t own any (yet)!

 

[Skin]

Not exactly true. Aircrafts use SAE fasteners so that is the main difference. However, they also have to meet military standards which are different than DIN/ISO standards so lower volume means higher cost. Also the Stahlwille spanners with zeros are made with a different steel, but it is free if cadmium so therefore safe to use in titanium fasteners. There are no metric "zero" spanners outside of the 220 series (and they are fantastic) so it isn't a matter of a higher standard. It is simply a different standard. You could always buy a 130a and SAE hex to settle your mind.

Cadmium hasnt been used in hand tool production in 50+ years. It is however still found occasionally in the aircraft industry as a plating on skins or fasteners.

Any high quality hand tool manufacturer meets or exceeds mil specs. No special production line needed.

 

[Hytekrednek]

where did you find the wobble wiha phillips drivers? I need one too! I just purchased a few snap-on wobble phillips insert bits last week. Not cheap bits at about 12 bucks each, but no other option out there, or so I thought...

 

[Reed Prince]

where did you find the wobble wiha phillips drivers? I need one too! I just purchased a few snap-on wobble phillips insert bits last week. Not cheap bits at about 12 bucks each, but no other option out there, or so I thought...

Discontinued long ago?

 

[measuredtwice]

where did you find the wobble wiha phillips drivers? I need one too! I just purchased a few snap-on wobble phillips insert bits last week. Not cheap bits at about 12 bucks each, but no other option out there, or so I thought...

Discontinued long ago?

http://i.imgur.com/uoDqdeM.png

I just used it today to install a door knob (works great for stuff like this) but I've had it many years. I may have gotten it directly from Wiha but I don't recall. I didn't know it was discontinued--that's a shame. The bit on the Wiha isn't removable. I think they put the bit and a spring inside a hollow shaft and then permanently fix a cap on the end.

 

[measuredtwice]

Found the product sheet and it shows the construction. Here's the PDF converted to a JPG. Also, here's a link to the patent with more illustrations --> https://patents.google.com/patent/US20020007704

 

[Hytekrednek]

Found the product sheet and it shows the construction. Here's the PDF converted to a JPG. Also, here's a link to the patent with more illustrations --> https://patents.google.com/patent/US20020007704

Thank you. Now, can you find some for sale please? I need these, especially the #2
Thanks again. I will keep eyes peeled for these

 

[Qualitytools]

+ 1, I would be interested also as I run into those situation often. Thanks

 

[measuredtwice]

Thank you. Now, can you find some for sale please? I need these, especially the #2
Thanks again. I will keep eyes peeled for these

+ 1, I would be interested also as I run into those situation often. Thanks

Ebay is probably the best bet. I Googled and this store shows 9 in stock but it's likely that the website just hasn't been updated if they were discontinued more than a decade ago. --> https://www.northstarmicro.com/tools/screw-and-nut-drivers-sets/31199

 

[Hytekrednek]

thank you. I am inquiring about them

 

[scubadoober]

Cadmium hasnt been used in hand tool production in 50+ years. It is however still found occasionally in the aircraft industry as a plating on skins or fasteners.

Any high quality hand tool manufacturer meets or exceeds mil specs. No special production line needed.

I was simply quoting Stahlwille.

"STAHLWILLE HPQ spanners are manufactured from selected tough steel alloys. The result: extremely high load capacity with exceptionally thin rings. HPQ spanners are free of cadmium and are therefore suitable or use on titanium alloy parts and titanium fasteners as used e.g. in the aerospace industry, where safety is a crucial factor."

As I stated the main difference is the SAE. However there has to be a reason for them to have 13a and 130a. The latter being made with HPQ steel and meeting Fed spec GGG-W-636 E. The OD on open and ring ends are also smaller on the 130a. The forging is slightly thicker on the open end of the 130a. Look it up don't take my word for it.
https://kataloge.stahlwille.de/katen20/#page_90

 

[mr.lemons]

The spanner testing was really just for me to find some good strong spanners and to learn hands on what factors into strength, usability, durability. I understand that when viewing the vid it's difficult to get a feel for just how much torque I'm applying and therefore what the strength difference is between the spanners. I'm thinking the stronger spanners are close to twice as strong as the weaker ones so minor varying factors like wear on the allen key would not be that significant. I will redo with a torque adapter when I have time to get a better idea and more relatable results.

Regarding 13s. I think that the Rockwell test that was done on a Stahlwille spanner that showed them to be comparatively hard was on a 13 so they may be harder than 14s.

 

[mr.lemons]

This Wiha is wobbly.

Haven't seen those before. Look interesting.

Ebay purchases. Used Gedore 45mm dead blow mallet, new Laser glow plug sockets and new Sealey 1/2" ratchet adaptor. Really like Gedore hammers, noted before that they are quite tightly filled with what feels/sounds like sand rather than shot.

No coo on the sockets or adapter. Think I can guess though.

Specs on the packaging for the ratcheting adapter.

 

[mr.lemons]

Spotted an interesting job lot of spanners on Ebay.

Snap on, Acesa, King **** etc + 'Heynen'

Not seen Heynen before. Googled but found little info. Keeps showing Heyco as it was founded by brothers Max and Ernst Heynen.

All I could find was Heynen sockets on Amazon with a pic of Heytec sockets....

...and a 'Genuine Mercedes-Benz Heynen spanner.' Germany on the spanner but India on the packaging.

Anyone know about Heynen tools? Any relation to Heyco?

 

[losvre]

I don´t think they make them. Depends on which type of pliers I think they´re from Orbis/Will or "Otra" Pliers.

Hello Monte,

I hope you are well and safe with this Covid situation.

I am looking to buy the Fein Multimaster and ASCM 18 QWS Multivolt.

Are you aware if they release the multi master also in 12-18V some time soon?

Also, do you think that the ASCM with 18V would deliver more torque than the 12V equivalent?

Many thanks and stay safe!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dave455]

...and a 'Genuine Mercedes-Benz Heynen spanner.' Germany on the spanner but India on the packaging.

Anyone know about Heynen tools? Any relation to Heyco?

I thought it was something to do with Heyco, but from what you have obtained, it seems that it’s an outsourced line, even cheaper than Heytec, which I think are generally Taiwanese.

If they are being supplied as ‘manufacturers equipment’ that would make sense, as most of the car manufacturers are racing each other to the bottom to see who can cut costs the most, and the once ‘gold standard’ Mercedes - Benz’ are about the worst offenders!

Selling a tool made in India, but marked “Germany” is actually illegal in the U.K. which is probably why you don’t find many here!

 

[superautobacs]

I always thought Heynen was an import line of Heyco. First saw it about 10 years ago?

 

[TjoFrasse]

A quick comparison shot of some 10mm wrenches / spanners that I have.

One observation is that the Stahlwille seems to be the smallest open end, even compared to much shorter wrenches. The thickness varies though, and there the Stahlwille is among the thicker ones. If there is interest I could take some measurements?

 

[ttpete]

I thought it was something to do with Heyco, but from what you have obtained, it seems that it’s an outsourced line, even cheaper than Heytec, which I think are generally Taiwanese.

If they are being supplied as ‘manufacturers equipment’ that would make sense, as most of the car manufacturers are racing each other to the bottom to see who can cut costs the most, and the once ‘gold standard’ Mercedes - Benz’ are about the worst offenders!

Selling a tool made in India, but marked “Germany” is actually illegal in the U.K. which is probably why you don’t find many here!

It's probably because the German forging dies are now being used in India.

 

[Dave455]

It's probably because the German forging dies are now being used in India.

Could be!

But the original forging dies would say “Heyco” not “Heynen”, which is a fairly new brand.

My gut feeling is it’s simple deceit, with the aim of implying you have a German tool, when you do not.

Doubt the car manufacturers care.

 

[mr.lemons]

Fiskars fix blade utility knife with folding blade guard.

Not new but didn't know that Fiskars made knives.

I like Stanley fixed blade utility knives so think this looks like a good idea.

Guessing they are not made in Finland.

Demo vid

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/q8BnRucADb4" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[superautobacs]

FWIW, I'm gonna post these two scanned images from a Japanese tool magazine that has done destructive testing in a couple issues.
I posted the series in this thread, if others care to see more: Food for Thought -- Tools for Thought -- Insights & Musings

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/ccassan/26825171105/in/album-72157662922645182/" title="FG vol 7 pg 82"><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/7640/26825171105_8f5e85320b_o.jpg" width="1224" height="1683" alt="FG vol 7 pg 82"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/ccassan/26757680511/in/album-72157662922645182/" title="FG vol 7 pg 83"><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/7652/26757680511_886418287e_o.jpg" width="1224" height="1683" alt="FG vol 7 pg 83"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[mr.lemons]

Thanks for posting this. Interesting stuff. Surprised at the Snap on open end results. I wonder if the breakaway results leaderboard would be in the same order across all spanner sizes or if some spanner designs scale down to the smaller sizes better than others.

Deen does very well showing that Taiwan made tools can compete with the best of them. Test wasn't done by Factory Gear was it?

 

[mr.lemons]

Another Ebay purchase.

Britool 8" combination pliers.

I read through an old Britool post. Britool started selling pliers only after the Facom takeover so these are from 90s onwards (not proper Britool). I would guess by the etching rather than stamp that they were made in China/Taiwan.

Edit... Britool thread here
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=277755

 

[Dakkyz]

Kinda Crazy that the UK doesn't have a Tool Manufacturing Company.

Hard to say King **** as a lot of their forging is done in Europe.
Not sure where they finish the tools.

 

[mr.lemons]

I think Footprint still make tools in Sheffield but very limited range. Real shame about UK manufacturing as the limited British tools I have used (Britool, Mole, Elliot Lucas) are amazing quality.

British steel sold to China is just sad.

 

[TjoFrasse]

FWIW, I'm gonna post these two scanned images from a Japanese tool magazine that has done destructive testing in a couple issues.

Thanks for reminding me of that post, and for posting it in the first place

With those results on the box end, I would say that the poorer open end results are from a slimmer design. And that they have chosen a softer hardening, probably with "bend before breaking" in mind.

Another Ebay purchase.

Britool 8" combination pliers.

I read through an old Britool post. Britool started selling pliers only after the Facom takeover so these are from 90s onwards (not proper Britool). I would guess by the etching rather than stamp that they were made in China/Taiwan.

Since there is no COO text, you're probably right. But etched markings are not uncommon in European made tools either. 90s Bahco items made in France and Spain are etched.

Kinda Crazy that the UK doesn't have a Tool Manufacturing Company.

Hard to say King **** as a lot of their forging is done in Europe.
Not sure where they finish the tools.

Footprint and Maun are the other ones I can think of.

 

[Dave455]

Kinda Crazy that the UK doesn't have a Tool Manufacturing Company.
.

Actually, there are quite a few, but they tend to be small firms just producing one line of products e.g. Maun, making parallel jaw pliers, Priory, making punches etc, and so on.

That’s pretty much always been the British way. We’ve never really had the big corporations that the Americans have, who produce anything and everything.

Firms like Record Marples were probably the biggest worldwide, but we were stupid enough to sell it to an organisation that was going to trash it. You wouldn’t sell a dog to someone who was going to abuse it, so why would you sell a sizeable manufacturing company to someone who was going to do the same?

The biggest mechanics tool supplier would probably have been Britool, but before we blame Facom too much for trashing it, let’s not forget that the former management had made a good start on the trashing process already!

Another Ebay purchase.

Britool 8" combination pliers.

I read through an old Britool post. Britool started selling pliers only after the Facom takeover so these are from 90s onwards (not proper Britool). I would guess by the etching rather than stamp that they were made in China/Taiwan.

Actually, Britool sold pliers as parts of their tool sets for many years. The ones supplied from the mid 70’s were Elliott Lucas (not surprising, as both were part of James Neil Tools). Can’t remember if they were actually branded “Britool”, but the screwdrivers certainly were!

Most of the Britool pliers I saw following the Facom takeover were reasonable quality, but they were clearly Facom rebrands. I think you’re probably right about the origins of yours, but management of British tool firms do really stupid things, so having tools made in the U.K. but not saying so wouldn’t surprise me!

 

[Dave455]

FWIW, I'm gonna post these two scanned images from a Japanese tool magazine that has done destructive testing in a couple issues.
I posted the series in this thread, if others care to see more:

Seen that before, but still interesting!

I’m not surprised that the winners are Snap On and Nepros, if you had asked me to name the two best wrench manufacturers worldwide, that’s who I would have picked!

I’m a little surprised that the Flank Drive open end outperformed the Flank Drive Plus, but you don’t know what hardness of fastener you were dealing with. I suspect the fastener hardness, and size, chosen were the ones that the Deen performed best on...!

Interesting that the open end of the Hazet was up there with the best, but the Stahlwille was some way behind. Rather confirms what mr.lemons found.

In reality of course, I use the open end of a combination wrench rarely, and when I do I seldom need high torque. One thing I do notice from the test, is that when you look at the box end results, there isn’t so much difference, and all but the cheapest seem to perform reasonably well!

 

[mr.lemons]

I’m a little surprised that the Flank Drive open end outperformed the Flank Drive Plus.

Missed that as I don't know Snap on part numbers very well. Looks like the 'plus' doesn't make much difference at all really. From the pics it look like they used some sort of hex stock in place of a fastener.

 

[rice rocket]

I think Footprint still make tools in Sheffield but very limited range. Real shame about UK manufacturing as the limited British tools I have used (Britool, Mole, Elliot Lucas) are amazing quality.

British steel sold to China is just sad.

UK priced themselves out of most factory jobs years ago, no?