Unusual structure

[billconner]

So buying a 1910 farm house fixed upper for my son. There is a truss like structure though not sure it's really a truss. That doesn't matter - whether the "top chord" is that or if the bottom chord is doing the work. This sits directly on top of a wall dividing two bedrooms on second floor, and a living room that is clear those two rooms. Looking close you should be able to see the tops of two large eye bolts through the "top chord", with 3/8" wire rope down through attic floor.

Next week I'll go back and do a little demo but my guess is this is supporting a beam in second floor/first floor ceiling. Another guess, there was a bearing wall under this on first floor, dividing what is now a long living room.

In my work in entertainment technology I've seen and designed a lot of things hanging on wires rope but don't think I've ever seen a second floor in a dwelling supported like this.

 

[micromind]

Looks like it's there to stiffen up the handrail.

 

[whateg01]

So buying a 1910 farm house fixed upper for my son. There is a truss like structure though not sure it's really a truss. That doesn't matter - whether the "top chord" is that or if the bottom chord is doing the work. This sits directly on top of a wall dividing two bedrooms on second floor, and a living room that is clear those two rooms. Looking close you should be able to see the tops of two large eye bolts through the "top chord", with 3/8" wire rope down through attic floor.

Next week I'll go back and do a little demo but my guess is this is supporting a beam in second floor/first floor ceiling. Another guess, there was a bearing wall under this on first floor, dividing what is now a long living room.

In my work in entertainment technology I've seen and designed a lot of things hanging on wires rope but don't think I've ever seen a second floor in a dwelling supported like this.

Was there one of these hanging below it?

 

[whateg01]

Looks like it's there to stiffen up the handrail.

I think the "handrail" is the truss op references.

 

[billconner]

Yes - that top "rail" is braced to rafters but it has the eyebolts with wire rope. I think they elevated it to make it simpler to rig.

We are wanting to remove it to repurpose attic.

 

[PCustoms]

Was there one of these hanging below it?

Why would you put a porch swing in the attic?

 

[Old Man Roger]

You might get some new friends if you hang that from your porch.lol

 

[PCustoms]

You might get some new friends if you hang that from your porch.lol

 

[Old Man Roger]

Swingers, it’s a *** swing. Who knows, maybe Pines would show up with the wives.lol

 

[whateg01]

Yes - that top "rail" is braced to rafters but it has the eyebolts with wire rope. I think they elevated it to make it simpler to rig.

We are wanting to remove it to repurpose attic.

More likely done to add strength because the truss has a taller cross section than the ceiling joist that it's attached to

 

[PCustoms]

Swingers, it’s a *** swing.

I was not confused, I was considering.

 

[Old Man Roger]

Fair enough. No kink shaming here.lol

 

[jack stand]

I've seen a variety of this type of "suspension" in older buildings including threaded rods.
I definitely would not remove it unless you like very springy floors.
There was no engineered lumber back then a the size of timbers & joists were limited to local resources and budgets.

 

[mike93lx]

That's really interesting. The braces to the rafters feel like an afterthought and may not be necessary. Guessing if you remove them, the truss will have some wobble which a previous owner thought needed to be taken out.

 

[billconner]

That's really interesting. The braces to the rafters feel like an afterthought and may not be necessary. Guessing if you remove them, the truss will have some wobble which a previous owner thought needed to be taken out.

I agree. The top parts are just double 2x4 toe nailed and a lot of vertical force. I suspect it could be pushed to either side a little at least.

 

[Old Man Roger]

If it was for floor support it doesn’t make much sense to have those 2 boards come down from an angle. They would give way more support if they came straight down, or had 2 more on the other side.

 

[PCustoms]

There was lot of framing added after the fact, based on the different color.

@billconner what is below that "beam"?

What are you trying to turn the attic into?

 

[mike93lx]

There was lot of framing added after the fact, based on the different color.

@billconner what is below that "beam"?

What are you trying to turn the attic into?

A lot? All that looks newer to me are the 2x6's tying into the rafters

 

[Uncle murph]

So buying a 1910 farm house fixed upper for my son. There is a truss like structure though not sure it's really a truss. That doesn't matter - whether the "top chord" is that or if the bottom chord is doing the work. This sits directly on top of a wall dividing two bedrooms on second floor, and a living room that is clear those two rooms. Looking close you should be able to see the tops of two large eye bolts through the "top chord", with 3/8" wire rope down through attic floor.

Next week I'll go back and do a little demo but my guess is this is supporting a beam in second floor/first floor ceiling. Another guess, there was a bearing wall under this on first floor, dividing what is now a long living room.

In my work in entertainment technology I've seen and designed a lot of things hanging on wires rope but don't think I've ever seen a second floor in a dwelling supported like this.

It’s possible it was built for a one time specific purpose.I couldn’t guess what without seeing the rest of the house below.

 

[PCustoms]

A lot? All that looks newer to me are the 2x6's tying into the rafters

Ok, some?

Look at the crooked ties up high., and right in the front There's something. There's also a shelf? to the left and something along the table end, a metal turnbuckle or maybe clothes rod, can't tell

 

[mike93lx]

The collar ties looked original to me, hard to tell, though.

 

[firebirdparts]

That certainly will hold up the 2nd floor, if that's what it's doing. I'm surprised it's that short. I don't think you really need one that short.

P.S. It does appear not to be a truss. Trusses can only consist of triangles, and it looks like you've got a square in the middle. Still pretty strong.

 

[firebirdparts]

We are wanting to remove it to repurpose attic.

On the face of it, that's a terrible idea, but I guess you know that.

 

[billconner]

There was lot of framing added after the fact, based on the different color.

@billconner what is below that "beam"?

What are you trying to turn the attic into?

There is a wall between two bedrooms on second floor and nothing on first floor. Living room is basically the size of the 2 bedrooms. No sign of any thing in living room ceiling - no crack or dip or any sign it was not always continuous.

 

[billconner]

That certainly will hold up the 2nd floor, if that's what it's doing. I'm surprised it's that short. I don't think you really need one that short.

P.S. It does appear not to be a truss. Trusses can only consist of triangles, and it looks like you've got a square in the middle. Still pretty strong.

Mid century Vierendeel truss?

 

[PCustoms]

There is a wall between two bedrooms on second floor and nothing on first floor. Living room is basically the size of the 2 bedrooms. No sign of any thing in living room ceiling - no crack or dip or any sign it was not always continuous.

And what are you trying to repurpose the attic for?

 

[billconner]

On the face of it, that's a terrible idea, but I guess you know that.

Whatever it is, not original. Finished lumber and plywood versus rough sawn in original. I think it could be reversed, but still investigating.

Mom wants a play room. for the 2 boys.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Before I drift off into the nether regions... I've seen various wall/floor support systems in older houses - my grandparent's place (built in the 1920's) used truss rods, tensioned cables, and anchoring footings to hold up the floors (and roof) over the basement, as well as load bearing wall framing... . The house was pretty solid and stable, and I attribute it to this construction method... it seems to have been common about a century ago...

Drifting here...

Was there one of these hanging below it?

Ya beat me, um, er, to it. (I've had friends into such things....)

It’s possible it was built for a one time specific purpose.I couldn’t guess what without seeing the rest of the house below.

Movie production, or, dungeons or, um... never mind....

I've seen a variety of this type of "suspension" in older buildings including threaded rods.

Me too. Older buildings where various "tradespeoples" plied their "trades" with other people....

Mom wants a play room.

Um... never mind. Again. (dammit, where are Pines and TampaGT when you need to 'splain things...)

 

[theoldwizard1]

I think the "handrail" is the truss op references.

CONCUR !

That "handrail" is actually the top cord of a Warren/Pratt/Howe truss.

 

[billconner]

What I referred to as the "top chord" is I believe just an elevated rail to make the wire rope termination easier. I believe the triple 2x12 with plywood spacers (why?) is carrying the load. Without the raised rail how could you terminate the wire rope and adjust tension swing the eye bolts? You'd have to tear out some of the second floor wall. I can see feeding wire rope from attic to a beam in first floor ceiling - with temporary supports - and never disturbing 2nd floor bedrooms.

It will be interesting forensic work. I don't know how much I can see with a borescope, but prepared to cut. I'm hoping I can figure out a beam of some sort in living room, though the idea of a truss within the bedroom wall on second floor had some appeal. (I think I'd go to an engineer for that.) Probably will suggest a beam across living room and simply wrap it or otherwise treat it, maybe extend around room coffered ceiling like. Insetting a beam is of course ideal - even if steel. Supporting the second floor temporarily would not be hard but supporting the second floor wall presents a unique challenge. The bearing wall with floor joists probably overlapping on it and another bearing wall sitting on it.

Living room photo. Supposition is the removed wall divided the approximately 24' room.

 

[billconner]

CONCUR !

That "handrail" is actually the top cord of a Warren/Pratt/Howe truss.

Everything above the triple 2x12 beam is toenailed. Not the usual means of connecting truss memebers.