Vintage Combination Square

[RTM]

It goes on and on in ITCL as well

Internet Archive: Digital Library of Free & Borrowable Texts, Movies, Music & Wayback Machine

archive.org

Still there in 1938, but the 1948 and onward catalogs are down to ~50 pages, and no longer the magnificent reference centers of the past

Starrett Precision Tools : Catalog 26 : L. S. Starrett Co. : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

292 p., illus., 17.4 cm, trade catalog

archive.org

Not sure any feature changes enough to warrant a type study, only single vs double bevel, but that is a different part ##.

 

[d42jeep]

I found a Starrett square at an estate sale on May 11.
I spent a bit of time cleaning it up. The rule is marked hardened but there isn’t a hump.



I found a Swanson square at another estate sale on May 17. There was no COO marked on the square and a little checking around indicates that it may have been made in China.
-Don

 

[crguy]

My dad was a welding fabricator and he had this Craftsman square. Retired in late 70s, I don't know when he bought it. Looks to be a good quality piece.

 

[Eric Brown]

Here are my two Sawer protractor heads. The one on the left was made in Fitchburg while the right one was made in Ashburnham. The older one was listed in both catalog G (1904) and H 1910. They moved from Fitchburg to Ashburnham 1912 and changed their name to Almond in 1915. The earlier head has a single knob at the top with a stationary screw towards the bottom. The newer on uses two knobs to secure the rotation. On my older one the vial was broken so I am working on replacing.











Comparing the Sawyer to an early Starrett from the top. The bases are the same, but the Starrett is much thinner towards the top.

 

[Eric Brown]

A small Sawyer adjustable square 2 1/2" with bevel blade 90 & 60 degree.

 

[Eric Brown]

Two different Sawyer thread gages. This one on the left has Sawyer Tool Co. Fitchburg Mass. on one side and a patent date of Sept21, 97 on the other. It can measure from 5 to 60 TPI on 24 individual leaves. The right one has three sets of leaves.

 

[d42jeep]

I found this Defiance by Stanley square with the scratch awl in place at a garage sale yesterday. It shouldn’t require too much rust removal.
-Don

 

[Eric Brown]

I found this Defiance by Stanley square with the scratch awl in place at a garage sale yesterday. It shouldn’t require too much rust removal.
-Don

Nice find. Looks like the earlier cast iron head.

 

[Historyworker]

Don, what's your method for removing the black stain spots and areas -- those which Evapo doesn't touch?

(I'm impressed by and envious of your "assemblage" of combo squares.)

Older thread but I happened upon your question today and thought I'd chime in. I use an E tank, which will often leave the whole piece dark similar to evaporust. Once I pull it from the tank I use a tight stitched buffing wheel and the grey cutting compound from harbor freight. This is after just a couple passes. Unfortunately this rules got pretty deep pitting here and there.

 

[Eric Brown]

Stretching the definition of "combination", here are two take-down squares. The top one is an A. B. Jennings patent # 962149 (June 21, 1910) for the connecting joint. Made by C.E. Jennings. Not on Datamp.org. The other one is by Oscar R. Altwein patent 1064953 (June 17, 1913) assigned to Peck-Stow & Wilcox (PEXTO). Datamp.org shows not known to have been manufactured.

 

[d42jeep]

Here is a recent combination square found at an estate sale. Empire is still in business making squares in the US although their current offerings don’t look much like this one. The rule looks somewhat better after it’s time in the evaporust.
-Don

 

[Eric Brown]

Here is a recent combination square found at an estate sale. Empire is still in business making squares in the US although their current offerings don’t look much like this one. The rule looks somewhat better after it’s time in the evaporust.
-Don

It even has the notch on each end for a pencil turning it into a marking gauge. Nice job.

 

[Eric Brown]

Here are a couple pictures of most my combination squares. Some unusual names in this group. Will sort and post in the near future.

 

[genog]

My father bought this Starrett combo square second hand in about 1948. Assuming it was purchased when a machinist retired and sold his tools it would put the original purchase prior to 1920. Anyone else have one to show?

Well, I only have one part of the setup like the OP's
I use it to find angles.....


Someone scratched USN on the front....

 

[Mintgrun]

Well, I only have one part of the setup like the OP's

The thumb nut on that one looks like the nuts on my Scherr Tumico tools. The finish and bright yellow green vial also match this combination square.
(the one on the left was made by Starrett)

Here's some company history, although he's mostly talking about micrometers.

Tom

 

[Provincial]

This is probably as good a place to post this as any, since it holds a rule from a combination square quite well.



Shop-made version of a Starrett #62 Rule Holder. It allows a rule to be used as a height gauge or depth gauge. It will hold rules of various widths. Here is and example of it in use:

And a close-up:

 

[Eric Brown]

Here is military issued protractor and square in dark olive drab green. Put together set with the rule being the only one marked with Brown & Sharpe. The protractor and square are not marked except on the rules clamping bolt is a patent #2122875 (July 5, 1938) assigned to Lufkin. The protractor has etched into it a "FT Jaffin". I did find both a Fred Jaffin Sr. and Fred Jaffin Jr. who served in the US Navy. The square has "Kenny" and "KS" etched into it. The shapes and designs of these suggest Brown & Sharpe but may have had shared designs to fulfil military contracts. The protractor has a two piece design for the main frame.

 

[Eric Brown]

Didn't see a separate topic for Union Tool Company tools, but combination squares use scribes, so here it is. I have looked in the 1923 and 1944 catalogs, but didn't see it. First picture is closed. Second apart. Third assembled for use. The only marking is Union Tool Co, Orange Mass USA just under the 3/8" hex top. The point is 1/8" at the large end. Anybody know when this might have been made? Thanks.

 

[d42jeep]

Here is a Union Tool thread that Woody started some time back if you would like to add your scribe to it.

Union Tool Company

This story was like putting together a large jigsaw puzzle, one small part at a time but I now think I have a somewhat complete story. The Company started out as the Union Caliper Company in Fitchburg, Massachusetts by Emory E. Ellis and from What I can deduce he was born sometime in the year...

www.garagejournal.com

-Don

 

[Eric Brown]

Here is a Union Tool thread that Woody started some time back if you would like to add your scribe to it.

Union Tool Company

This story was like putting together a large jigsaw puzzle, one small part at a time but I now think I have a somewhat complete story. The Company started out as the Union Caliper Company in Fitchburg, Massachusetts by Emory E. Ellis and from What I can deduce he was born sometime in the year...

www.garagejournal.com

-Don

Thanks. I didn't see it. Not under the index. Posted it over there.

 

[leg17]

Here is military issued protractor and square in dark olive drab green. .....

Brown and Sharpe used that color for quite a while.

 

[Shelbylex]

Recent pick up among bunch of tools:
Top - no name (at least now, may be when I clean it)
Mid - craftsman
Botton - Brown and Sharpe

 

[Eric Brown]

Recent pick up among bunch of tools:
Top - no name (at least now, may be when I clean it)
Mid - craftsman
Botton - Brown and Sharpe

Move the center head from the middle to the bottom and the bottom center head to the top and that should be correct sets except for maybe the rules,

 

[alinc100]

Here is military issued protractor and square in dark olive drab green. Put together set with the rule being the only one marked with Brown & Sharpe. The protractor and square are not marked except on the rules clamping bolt is a patent #2122875 (July 5, 1938) assigned to Lufkin. The protractor has etched into it a "FT Jaffin". I did find both a Fred Jaffin Sr. and Fred Jaffin Jr. who served in the US Navy. The square has "Kenny" and "KS" etched into it. The shapes and designs of these suggest Brown & Sharpe but may have had shared designs to fulfil military contracts. The protractor has a two piece design for the main frame.

Curious how you distinguish 'military issued' versus standard Lufkin. A lot of their stuff was green.

 

[Eric Brown]

Curious how you distinguish 'military issued' versus standard Lufkin. A lot of their stuff was green.

Coincidence mostly. The square is unmarked except for the patent number on the clamping bold. Can't see it unless taken apart. Patent was issued 1938. Fred Jaffin was in the Navy during WWII. Olive Drab. Military contracts usually require no markings and suppliers all make the same designs with interchangeable parts. The Brown & Sharpe designs are basically the same. Why would a manufacturer use olive drab as a color during the war except for military. Black was more available. So, coincidence. I have sent this question to Cresent as they now own the Lukin brand. Will be surprised if they respond.

 

[Eric Brown]

Trying to combine some Starrett protractor heads and put one into good shape. The first one, called Early, was rusted pretty bad on the exposed metal areas. The painted areas weren't too bad. Missing one small screw opposite the rotation clamp knob. Smaller than a #6 with a wide head. Starrett no longer offers these. The degree markings have a lot of pitting as does the bottom. Looks ugly to me.

The other is a #491 one painted green I called Later. Missing one rotation clamp knob and the frame is broken there. However, it has a decent center with clear markings. It also has a broken level.

So thinking it might be possible to move the center from the later to the frame of the early.

Took both apart. The center of the later was a few thousandths larger than the frame of the early. A little sandpaper sanding and it fits nicely. Then I tried to move the good level from the early to the later and nope, doesn't work. While the hole pattern is the same, the level isn't level. Side note: The early level holder is iron, the later one zinc. So now I'm fixing the level.

I'm not trying to fool anybody into thinking its all original. So I will use a plastic green bubble level. I will also drill out and tap with a 8-40 thread and use the knob off the early instead a screw so there are two knurled knobs (like the later ones).

For grins and giggle I am thinking of nickel plating this one. Will need to avoid plating the surfaces where it rotates due to tolerances.

 

[Eric Brown]

Trying to combine some Starrett protractor heads and put one into good shape. The first one, called Early, was rusted pretty bad on the exposed metal areas. The painted areas weren't too bad. Missing one small screw opposite the rotation clamp knob. Smaller than a #6 with a wide head. Starrett no longer offers these. The degree markings have a lot of pitting as does the bottom. Looks ugly to me.

The other is a #491 one painted green I called Later. Missing one rotation clamp knob and the frame is broken there. However, it has a decent center with clear markings. It also has a broken level.

So thinking it might be possible to move the center from the later to the frame of the early.

Took both apart. The center of the later was a few thousandths larger than the frame of the early. A little sandpaper sanding and it fits nicely. Then I tried to move the good level from the early to the later and nope, doesn't work. While the hole pattern is the same, the level isn't level. Side note: The early level holder is iron, the later one zinc. So now I'm fixing the level.

I'm not trying to fool anybody into thinking its all original. So I will use a plastic green bubble level. I will also drill out and tap with a 8-40 thread and use the knob off the early instead a screw so there are two knurled knobs (like the later ones).

For grins and giggle I am thinking of nickel plating this one. Will need to avoid plating the surfaces where it rotates due to tolerances.

Here are some updated progress pictures. It has been cleaned and what I call first polish. Will give it another polish before nickel plating. Waiting for a 8-40 tap to replace the one knurled screw. The level isn't set yet. May paint the holder black first.

 

[Eric Brown]

Bates Mfg. Orange Mass. Bates Mfg. was started when Sawyer Tool moved from Fitchburg MA. to Ashburnham MA. about 1908. Bates was sold to Union Caliper in 1913. 1915 name was changed to Union Tools. Also 1915 they moved to Orange MA. Looks like they kept the Bates line until the 1920's. In 1957 Union Tools was sold to Millers Falls.

The group of three Bates combination squares are all similar with the same markings indicating the Orange MA. location. None have a scribe (or even a hole for one). 12", 9" and 6" sizes. The blades not only have different lengths and widths, but also thicknesses. The blade holding nut does not use a compression spring but instead uses a wave washer. The donut shaped hole where the blade tightening nut was carried over to the Union Tool line.

The 12" stand alone is marked the same as above. Note it does have a scribe. The scribe is secured using a cam like joint.

The last picture shows a Bates center square (left) compared to a Starrett (right). The Bates does not have a raised lip on the outer edge. Compare the two knurled nuts.

 

[Eric Brown]

Two different Sawyer thread gages. This one on the left has Sawyer Tool Co. Fitchburg Mass. on one side and a patent date of Sept21, 97 on the other. It can measure from 5 to 60 TPI on 24 individual leaves. The right one has three sets of leaves.

A Sawyer Depth Gage #57, also marked Fitchburg, which puts it after 1898. Sawyer was in business from 1894 to 1915.
It's listed in their catalog "G" 1904 and also in catalog "H". They added a bunch of sizes between the two catalogs.

 

[Eric Brown]

Adding functionality to combination squares are Key-Seat Rule Blocks. Made by a bunch of companies, here are five different sets. They are used to mark lines down cylindrical shafts or tubes. From left to right: Sawyer Tool, Union 310, unmarked, Starrett, Brown & Sharpe. Notice they come in various lengths and widths. Probably more important is the contact angle. The first two have about a 110 degree angle and the rest are 90 degrees. At first you might think that the short ones are for smaller work but that would not be correct. The depth the rule is inserted and the contact angle is important to the size of the work. A narrower rule for instance allows smaller diameters to be marked. The Sawyer and Union examples have a deeper groove for the rule to go into, making the rule shallower on the contact surface. They are however also larger physically. The smallest and lightest would be the Brown & Sharpe. On my next post I will have catalog pages and other info. Starrett has discontinued theirs.

 

[Eric Brown]

Key-Seat Rule blocks catalog pages and other info. I have not seen any of the 1922 Union blocks with curved surfaces.

 

[Eric Brown]

Some more Key Seat tools. The first is by Chesterman, Sheffield England. Model 802. 4" long 9/16" and 11/16" legs.
Then a group of black Lee Valley Veritas edge rules. Though not listed as for marking cylinders, they all have different lengths of legs with the long one having the longest legs. Link: https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/sho...ring/rules/111913-veritas-imperial-edge-rules

All of these have 90 degree corners.

 

[Eric Brown]

Sorry not combination square, but there is no Sawyer tool topic either so I thought I would throw a couple of Sawyer calipers in here with the other Sawyer tools. The top one is marked with the Sawyer name, Fitchburg MA, and "Beeswax Joint" and it is about 8" long. The bottom one is Marked the same but also has a patent date of Aug, 22, 05 and is 7" long. It also has an adjustable point. Since Sawyer moved in 1908, that makes these being made between 1905 and 1908. Found the patent on Datamp.org, but they also say "not known to have been manufactured".

The patent was by James H. Cook, #797559 (Aug 22, 1905). It was assigned to Sawyer Tool MFG. of Fitchburg MA.

 

[Eric Brown]

Here are some updated progress pictures. It has been cleaned and what I call first polish. Will give it another polish before nickel plating. Waiting for a 8-40 tap to replace the one knurled screw. The level isn't set yet. May paint the holder black first.

UPDATE: Nickel plated, vials replaced. Painted the textured areas. Added a square and center head to make set.

 

[crguy]

UPDATE: Nickel plated, vials replaced. Painted the textured areas. Added a square and center head to make set.

Why are you nickel plating stuff that wasn't plated in the first place?

 

[Eric Brown]

Why are you nickel plating stuff that wasn't plated in the first place?

Because I can? Consider when people paint their model T Fords a color other than black. Any difference? Many tools were nickel plated because its durable and was available since the mid 1800's. Because of the amount ow work done to these I don't want to mislead anybody that they are original. Sure, I could leave a little rust and chipped paint, but hopefully someone takes better care of these for the next 100 years. I have not taken anything away from their being a useful tool. Perhaps you should consider these as an artistic effort.

 

[Eric Brown]

Stanley combination squares #122 and #22 both use a wire to retain the clamping bolt. Here is my example of the #22 showing how to gently remove the wire. As can been seen in the first two pictures, the wire goes through a slot on the clamping bolt. Picture three shows on the one side a recess on the 45 degree side. Using a small screwdriver of x-acto blade, lift this end until it just clears, and then using another screwdriver push the wire towards the 45. The other end will now clear and drop down. Putting back together requires holding the wire up and the springing the wire up and moving back into the notch. Tricky, but it can be done gently.

These particular models use a rule similar to Starrett's with a groove, however, they are thinner so a standard Starrett rule won't fit.

 

[Etchase]

Stanley combination squares #122 and #22 both use a wire to retain the clamping bolt. Here is my example of the #22 showing how to gently remove the wire. As can been seen in the first two pictures, the wire goes through a slot on the clamping bolt. Picture three shows on the one side a recess on the 45 degree side. Using a small screwdriver of x-acto blade, lift this end until it just clears, and then using another screwdriver push the wire towards the 45. The other end will now clear and drop down. Putting back together requires holding the wire up and the springing the wire up and moving back into the notch. Tricky, but it can be done gently.

These particular models use a rule similar to Starrett's with a groove, however, they are thinner so a standard Starrett rule won't fit.

Thanks for providing such extensive reference material for the ages!

 

[Eric Brown]

Goodell-Pratt # 707 combination square. This example is only marked "Pat Appl For" on the beam. The Rule is marked with the Goodell-Pratt information and the proper 707 model number. Have not been able to locate a patent for this design. According to the catalogs, in 1922 they refer to it as new tool and Pat Pending. By the 1926 catalog the patent is not referred to and they have a similar model 807 in aluminum. Have not see that one yet. These were sold as carpenter squares and do not have spirit levels or scribes.

 

[ararat]

Here's a little Union Tool Co Orange Mass. USA