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Woodworking 101--Tools and Tips

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drivesitfar

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BJ: thanks for the pictures on your storage solutions. i love the PVC for dowels and of course i like the little parts, nuts and bolts cabinet you built. I would say you and all of us should post up our small and large projects with pictures and good information saying how we made them to really start making this the best place to look for woodworking on GJ and maybe the web. sort of like the vise thread is maybe the best thread on the internet for vises. make sense?

also thank you for finding the drawing of the grain into planer.

Schor: I like your storage and like your explanation of the advantages and dis advantages of some of the different brands of clamps.
 

schor

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I love this thread. I am woodworker before metal, but really I am just a computer geek for real. All it takes is some drive inside, get the stuff done. Too many pansies these days IMO.
 

drivesitfar

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Schor: just a quick question. no doubt i like the cabinets you built above your bench and love how you changed the height to give your toolbox room to open.

i just have a question about all the cabinet doors. was that a salvage mission where you just grabbed the doors cause you didn't have the room/space to grab the cabinets too or do tell? also if you just grabbed doors are they maybe the hardest part of a cabinet to build since i've never built a cabinet yet?

ALL: this thread is also becoming maybe my favorite thread on GJ so i'll continue to try and find members i know or see that have woodworking skills to get them to come on board. if all you do the same i bet this thread will really really be hard to follow with all the new information.

so i know there are a lot of you that have done a wood project big or small in the past year that maybe you have a few pictures of that you can tell us how you made it so post them up.

it would be awesome for me (and maybe all of us) to be able to wake up and turn on our laptops or cell phones and see new stuff on this thread.

post them up as you can and thanks in advance!!
 

schor

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Drives, I got the doors for free (lots of them) and made the cabinets. dowelled and screwed to be strong.

I have at least 5x more doors that I could build cabinets for and eventually I will.
 

drivesitfar

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Schor: i have a kitchen to remodel in a year or two and i'd love to learn how to and make all the kitchen cabinets. do you (or anybody) have pictures of how you made the cabinets and i like the sound of doweled and screwed. glued too?
 

ztorres

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I think it'd be very helpful for lots of folks, and interesting for others, if people posted how they do something or give some great insights about different tools. It's always nice to see how someone does something differently- like they say "there's more than one way to skin a cat". Earlier we had some posts about planes and chisels, I posted about making dados and rabbits with a router. I'd really like to hear what everyone is good at an get some good pointers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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jimreed2160

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Schor--Good job on storing your clamps. I like your economical use of space.
BJ--Your orderliness is impressive. My shop needs your skills. :willy_nil

All--Keep the tips and projects comin. Woodworking season is here!
 

drivesitfar

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ALL: i was hoping to wake up and see a few posts maybe from our boys Down Under or the guys on the East coast and across the pond that are early risers. since there weren't any i decided to watch a few YOUTUBE videos and after watching one video on hand saw sharpening i'm learning quickly about taking care of our tools.

since not a lot of us use power tools is there any of you that prefer to just use hand tools in most of your projects?

also for those of you that use files is there a preferred method of cleaning them, storing them and what is an easy way to tell if the file is past it's prime? i usually pick up files by the handfuls and mainly cause i've heard and seen a few clients, friends and members make knives out them if they were no longer any good as a file. probably could do an entire thread on files, but just wanted basic information on how to keep our saws, planes and tools sharp and ready to cut wood and not be a WOOD BUTCHER like i have been in the past.

cheers and good morning all.
 

CRSINMICH

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Drill Bit Primer​
I borrowed these images of bits but the words are mine. Feel free to correct me or add your own 2 cents.
 

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CRSINMICH

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ALL:also for those of you that use files is there a preferred method of cleaning them, storing them and what is an easy way to tell if the file is past it's prime? i usually pick up files by the handfuls and mainly cause i've heard and seen a few clients, friends and members make knives out them if they were no longer any good as a file. probably could do an entire thread on files, but just wanted basic information on how to keep our saws, planes and tools sharp and ready to cut wood and not be a WOOD BUTCHER like i have been in the past.

cheers and good morning all.

Drives: You were about 5 minutes too fast for me this morning. I just wanted to add a few words about files. I use a file card (being an ex-teacher I always want to call it a Card File) on mine just before I put them away. It keeps the crud and rust under control. There are places that resharpen files that you send them. I don't know what the cost is. Here's a tip for stretching the time your file is useful: Most files only get used in the middle. Use the tip and tail after that.
 
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ez-duzit

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One of the handiest files in woodworking is the pattern maker's file; flat on one side, 1/2-round on the other. Look for a US-made Nicholson.

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drivesitfar

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CRS: some of us channel each other's thoughts i guess. :dunno:

as far as file cards i heard they were bad for files on some thread i read here so can you or anybody confirm or deny?

nice post on the drill bits and i bet we can think of more, but that was a good start.

Drilling tip: also on the basic spade bit we all might have to avoid huge tear outs if possible i wait until the tip of the bit shows through on the one side then pull the bit out and continue finishing the hole from the new side with the starting hole ready to use. not perfect by any means, but especially on plywood and dry not so dense wood it seems to eliminate a lot or most of the tear out issue.

EZ: thanks for the heads up.

ALL: i tend to like putting wood handles on all my files and similarly i like the old wood handled screwdrivers and tools.

have any of you done repairs on your wood handled tools and care to share how you fixed them? i've seen a few done here on GJ, but it's hard to dig up so many good threads so having examples on one thread would be nice.

i'll post up some pictures of my wood handled tools, planes and other tools if anybody asks. i might take a bit for me to dig them all out cause i have more than a few, but this week is maybe going to be ORGANIZING WEEK for me while i learn some WOODWORKING 101 skills.

thanks all for the tips, tricks and lessons and feel free to post up LOTS OF PICTURES when you have time.
 

Shiftless

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CRS:
Good job on the scholarly work. I'm sure you love the Forstner bits as much as I do.

Drives:
I use card files and have never heard about negatives. Knowing how hard the steel is on files, it's hard to imagine damaging it with what is essentially just a wire brush.
Good tip about drilling through from both sides to minimize tear out. Newbies might not have ever heard that one before. Spade bits cut quickly but like CRS said, tear out can be extreme. But lots of times that doesn't matter like when drilling through studs to run wiring. If it gets covered up later, who cares? Let's not cut those holes with Forstner bits and chamfer the holes to run NMC through wall studs. :)



Re: replacement handles
CRS would be the go-to-guy about fabricating new wooden handles. Ask him about the chisel handles he and his brother make for chisels, etc.

RE: File Cards
I found this on the Simonds web site. Since they have been making files since 1836 is think we have to listen to what they say.
"Using a File Card: As you file, the teeth may become clogged with some of the metal filings which can, in turn, scratch he work you are trying to make smooth. This condition is known as pinning and can be prevented by keeping the file teeth clean. Rubbing chalk between the teeth will also prevent pinning but the best method is to clean the file regularly with a file card or brush and brush with a pulling motion holding the card parallel to the rows of the teeth"
 
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jimreed2160

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Did someone mention clamps? Well, a ww cannot have enough clamps. Most of us have dozens and want more. This morning I dug out some of my clamps for show and tell. BTW--with the Christmas season approaching, be sure to pass along clamps as gift ideas to the family. Nobody needs another tie or tee with a picture of a cat. Tell everyone you need clamps and that clamps should be purchased in PAIRS. A single lonely clamp is near worthless for projects but a pair can be very useful for a variety of tasks.

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The premium clamp is the Bessie K body on the right. It works well in all regards and even stands up on the bench. Their Tradesman brand is next and is followed by a Jorgy, a HF copy, and two smaller light duty clamps. I like the Bessie K, of course. But the HF clamps are inexpensive and useful for smaller projects.

Here is a shot of the Bessies in action. Using three is probably overkill, but it is just an illustration. When edge gluing boards, make sure you apply pressure evenly for a good bond.

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Here are some other clamps in action. The top one is a Jorgenson I beam 48" clamp and the other is a Craftsman pipe clamp. These clamps are used for large glue ups--like table tops. The Jorgeys are my favorite.

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Notice that they stand up on the bench tall enough to turn the crank. No so with the pipe clamp--it needs a stand. Of course, pipe clamps are much less expensive. Notice also that the clamps do not match and would not work together well. Remember our rule--buy clamps in pairs.

Clamps can all work together. Here are some handscrews that are functioning as clamp stands.

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When gluing up panels, you need to protect the edges. The easiest way is to use a caul. A caul is simply a piece of wood that distributes force evenly and also keeps your workpiece from clamp compression.

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And here is a shot of a handscrew in action. It is very effective when you have an irregularly shaped workpiece.

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There is a lot more clamp lore. Perhaps others can share their best clamp tips and tricks.
 

Irongrave

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Schor: i have a kitchen to remodel in a year or two and i'd love to learn how to and make all the kitchen cabinets. do you (or anybody) have pictures of how you made the cabinets and i like the sound of doweled and screwed. glued too?

I cheat when it comes to most of our kitchens. I uses a CAD program and in a week I have a full kitchen ready for paint and my only design limits are 4x8 sheet of plywood keeps my costs down and frees up my guys to do more creative stuff.

As for as DIY if we are building a custom cabinet in the shop we use a lot of pocket screw joinery. Its fast strong simple and cheap. I will try and take some in progress photos next time we build a cabinet from scratch.
 

ez-duzit

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My shop is vastly overcrowded, with too many machines and material cutoffs stacked in every conceivable place, and literally covered with sawdust and cobwebs that I endlessly ignore. :) But it would make me crazy to try to work with collections of stuff covering my work surfaces. :willy_nil Though sometimes things do get out of hand. Looks like it's time to organize storage.
 

Shiftless

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Jim
Awesome tutorial :beer:
Love the vintage machinist vises (Reed?) in the background. (brief off-topic distraction)
I love those taper hand screw clamps too. I have heard them called "piano" clamps. Anybody have more info on that?
One of my biggest garage sale mistakes, way back when I was young and naive was a sale at the home of a deceased pattern maker. All his wooden clamps of that design were in a heap in the driveway and priced at a dollar each. I thought it too greedy to pick up all of them so I only took 4 and left at least 8 more for "somebody else".
I did however grab all of his shelving...full one inch thick A grade plywood ripped into strips 8 inches wide and 8 feet long. Three full sheets worth!
Still using most of it today more than 30 years later.
 
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drivesitfar

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Shift: thanks and you can't always get to the other side of a board easily when drilling, but even when drilling through studs in walls i like to use my Milwaukee angle drill with lots of power and come in from both sides. yes the tear out wouldn't be seen, but i've more than ones had that Milwaukee or my other big drills catch and try to tear off my arm or wrist instead of the wood. makes for a cleaner hole.

no i don't sand the hole afterwards.:lol_hitti

as far as using a file brush to clean a file i'll have to try to find that or talk to a few guys that i know almost use a file everyday to see what they say. i do recall them saying to put something on the file first to prevent clogging and i didn't think it was BEESWAX so i'll have to find out which type of chalk and get some.

thanks

JIM: great lessons and thanks for taking the time to lay everything out and take pictures. can i ask if you would put a CAUL on each side of the project since you only showed it on one side i'm guessing for demonstration purposes showing us what a CAUL IS?

i have some 100 year old cast iron clamps and hopefully they work as good as the new stuff which i own a few of those too. i found a couple German made ones that look pretty decent too i'll snap a few pics of.

Schor: that would be AWESOME. i'm guessing the CAD program just lays out the design and then you and the guys just cut saw glue, screw and so fort and kitchen is ready. i probably should start with shop cabinets instead of kitchen cabinets but i like metal ones a bit better so we'll see how my skill level is when that time comes.

thanks for the pictures and tutorials in advance.

ALL: it stopped raining so i'm heading out to my Honda to remove a few of the tools i grabbed this weekend just because we started this thread. oh yes and because i LOVE TOOLS.

cheers
 

drivesitfar

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Shift: i usually leave almost every sale wishing i'd have grabbed more stuff and happy to hear you do to. it keeps our brides somewhat happy (I think).

EZ: in JIM's defense i put the idea in his head to start this thread this last week and he was maybe in the middle of 3 or 4 or so vise restorations. then we ask him questions and he's kind enough to clear one bench to make a great example. i hear you, but let's give him time and i'm sure i've seen those other benches clean not long ago and will again soon when he finishes his vises.

ALL: most of you don't seem to have FSD (flat surface disease) or at least you are able to keep one bench clear and clean at least for pictures. i've had it bad for many many years and mainly cause i'll buy something i really like and probably need but don't have a good spot for it so i set it on the bench as sort of a TO DO PILE. anybody have a cure for FSD?

i've now got maybe 400 drawers (seriously have you seen the metal cabinet thread and some of mine) and maybe more so now ORGANIZING the stuff inside each drawer is the next thing on my TO DO list to help with the FSD.

HELP!!
 
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ez-duzit

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...EZ: in JIM's defense i put the idea in his head to start this thread this last week and he was maybe in the middle of 3 or 4 or so vise restorations...

Well, this thread is about tips, after all. And my tip is to keep things organized. :)

To be fair I'll have to remember to take and post a photo of my "organized" shop, cobwebs and all.
 

drivesitfar

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EZ: FAIR ENOUGH. hopefully i'll have one clean bench out of the 10 i own after today so small steps for me and heading out there now.

feel free to also show a few of those projects you made that your cobwebs might be on while you are spiffing up your shop.

cheers
 

Shiftless

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Staying organized is great advice but on the other hand, I hope that members who go to the trouble of shooting photos and posting them don't have to spend a lot of extra time moving stuff around and off of benches so picture backgrounds don't look cluttered. JMO. :)

I too suffer from the disorder Drives refers to as FSD
 

ez-duzit

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Most of my projects are already in the water, on somebody's boat. Some have circumnavigated (sailed around the world, for you landlubbers :) ). And sadly I don't have too many photos--it always seems I am otherwise too preoccupied, when building stuff, to take photos. But I'll try to see if there are any other photos around. At any rate I will also try to get some photos posted of my shop/tools.

But don't disregard my tip to keep your work surfaces clear, even while projects are ongoing. I was not trying to be unkind.
 

CRSINMICH

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Wooden Handles​
The first four are Perfect Handled screwdrivers. I thought they were Perfection Handled but Shiftless corrected me. Thanks Shift! I pick these up at estate sales after I have finished digging the vises out of the bench. I rarely pay more than $2. The second picture is a before and after of a Brass Perfect Handled. I walked by this for 2 days before I picked it up. Luckily it was the second day of the sale and the price was reduced to 50 cents. The third picture is what could be called Round Handled screwdrivers. Anyone know the correct name? The fourth picture is of something that I have heard called a Turnscrew. Notice that the shank is flat. The last picture is of what I like to call screwdrivers.
 

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CRSINMICH

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Since Shiftless brought it up - here's the only picture I have of a chisel handle mbsinmich and I have replaced. We have done many of them but this is the only photograph I have. It's a 1.25 inch G.I. Mix firmer chisel. The handle is walnut. The duck tape is to hold a temporary edge guard in place. This is one of the many tools crammed into the 4 drawers of my bench.
 

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jimreed2160

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Ez--Sorry for the mess but you should have seen it before I cleaned up. :willy_nil

CRS--The screwdrivers in picture 3 are often referred to as English Cabinetmaker screwdrivers. The good ones have boxwood handles--OK ones have beech handles. The good ones are turned so that the handpiece in cross section is oval so that it fits the hand better.
 

CRSINMICH

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Ez--Sorry for the mess but you should have seen it before I cleaned up. :willy_nil

CRS--The screwdrivers in picture 3 are often referred to as English Cabinetmaker screwdrivers. The good ones have boxwood handles--OK ones have beech handles. The good ones are turned so that the handpiece in cross section is oval so that it fits the hand better.

Jim: Thanks! I was going to mention that they had a slight oval shape. The one on the bottom is more pronounced than the others. The middle one may be beech. They do feel good in the hand.
 
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jimreed2160

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When I got out my bar clamps for the picture this morning, I ran across this one that belonged to my dad. It is a 48" I beam clamp. He was a horsetrader (literally) so there is no telling how he came to have it. I just know that it was in his shop as early as the 1950s and I used it later for some of my projects.

DSCN0862.jpg


I looked at it a little more closely this time. It is in almost factory state--in spite of years of crud and dust. The japan finish is mostly intact and the cheap red handle is almost untouched. It was well made and has "Cin't Tools" cast in it along with patent numbers and a circle "H". A little help from Mr Google revealed that it was made by the Cincinnati Tool Company and was designed by Mr Hargraves (circle H). He obtained 11 patents from 1915--1935, mostly for clamps. The company changed its name in 1925 to Hargrave Company. So this clamp was made sometime after 1915, but before 1925. Cool.
 

ztorres

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So I made a rack to hold my chisels, I stepped the holes to create a ledge for the chisels to rest on. I needed to cut a slot with a jigsaw so I can slide the chisels in, this had to be cut after the the holes were drilled. The edges are nowhere near perpendicular to the face, so I was wondering if anyone had a tip on cutting good lines with a hand jigsaw?
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Zach
 

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drivesitfar

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CRS: i love all your wood handled tools so post more up if you have any and have some time. also Shift mentioned that you might make handles for those that you find broken or missing them and i've got several in the first pictures where the wood is damaged beyond PATINA range. i saw a post on another thread where a member (was it you) made a new wood oak handle for one of his.

Jim: i've got several of those OLD SCHOOL clamps and a few older ones and i'll have to let you know or maybe you can help me decide if they are just for show to be displayed or if they might still be useful.

ZT: what i do (not sure if this is correct or the easiest method) is i put my little square on the marks at the top of the cut and mark with a pencil so i know if my jigsaw blade is going straight in. if this doesn't make sense i'll try to explain better or maybe somebody else has a better method.

ALL: still cleaning up and hoping to have a few pictures later tonight of a few finds and some of my tools.

hope you are all having a great day.
 

CRSINMICH

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CRS: i love all your wood handled tools so post more up if you have any and have some time. also Shift mentioned that you might make handles for those that you find broken or missing them and i've got several in the first pictures where the wood is damaged beyond PATINA range. i saw a post on another thread where a member (was it you) made a new wood oak handle for one of his.
QUOTE]

Drives: Most of the handles I have made were for socket chisels. The handles of socket chisels are tapered to fit into the tapered socket. As the tool ages and the wood gets dryer the handles shrink and don't fit tightly into the sockets anymore. That leads to them getting separated from the chisel and lost. When the handle is gone some people continue using the chisel and the constant hammering will mushroom the rim of the socket. Sometimes that is correctable but often it's too far gone. I always look because sometimes the remaining iron has a famous name on it - like Swan. It's pretty cool to get a Swan chisel for 25 cents. I have done a bunch of them but didn't take pictures. Now that I think of it they are in a drawer just below the newly cleared bench top. That should make a good place to photograph them. Oh, I just remembered that I made a handle for a hexagonal brass hammer head. I'll photograph that too.
 
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vartz04

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This thread is great. I'm just getting into more complicated projects. First one is a pair of these kitchen helpers from the wood whisperer

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This will be painted to match my kitchen chairs (a cream color) and then the standing platform will be stained to match the seats of the chairs (that oak in the below photos will turn into the standing platform.
My niece will end up with a red one with some mini mouse stickers on it (what her mom wants) not my style but it's a Christmas present.


One awesome trick I learned about from that project in his page are these flexible sanding strips. I tried to sand those curves only with a drum sander in he drill press and they looked like ****. 30 mins on all 16 of the curved rails and they were very consistent. I almost recut all the pieces and went with straight rails.

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All you do is take some 1/8" hardboard or plywood and spray glue some cork to it. Then use wood glue to attach two pieces of scrap for handles. Then lightly spray glue the cork and press on a piece of whatever grit sandpaper you need.
 

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CRSINMICH

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vartz: I'm glad you found this thread. I'm only vaguely aware of the Wood Whisperer. What is a kitchen helper? Is it a stand for machinery like a mixer or microwave? I noticed that you used pocket screws for joining the wood. I have to admit that they don't sit right with me. It is essentially a **** joint. I'm trying to have an open mind about it. I can easily imagine someone's great great granddaddy saying, "Screws? Those are for guys who don't know how to clench nails!" And his great great granddaddy saying, "Nails? Boy, don't you know that joints are pegged?" And his ancestor saying, "Pegs? Those are for people who don't know how to properly lash wood together!" You get the picture. Let me know how they work out for you. I'm genuinely curious. BTW I'm going to use that flexible sander tip. Thanks
 

vartz04

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Location
LaSalle County IL
vartz: I'm glad you found this thread. I'm only vaguely aware of the Wood Whisperer. What is a kitchen helper? Is it a stand for machinery like a mixer or microwave? I noticed that you used pocket screws for joining the wood. I have to admit that they don't sit right with me. It is essentially a **** joint. I'm trying to have an open mind about it. I can easily imagine someone's great great granddaddy saying, "Screws? Those are for guys who don't know how to clench nails!" And his great great granddaddy saying, "Nails? Boy, don't you know that joints are pegged?" And his ancestor saying, "Pegs? Those are for people who don't know how to properly lash wood together!" You get the picture. Let me know how they work out for you. I'm genuinely curious. BTW I'm going to use that flexible sander tip. Thanks


Kitchen helper - read fall proofish step stool for a toddler so he can get up by the counter and "help" in the kitchen.

I agree with you on the pocket screws. Pocket screws and glue were used on each joint. Pocket screw plugs get filled in. The reason I went with that method was time and tools available at the start of this project. In a perfect world I would have used the domino jointer the whisperer used but I didn't have the $1500 and my shop (12x20 shed) still isn't entirely finished.

If I were to do it all over again I would have likely used 1/4" dowels for all the joints.

I'm not scared of more traditional jointery. This gate I made has 1/2 lap pegged joints in the corners.

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ez-duzit

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
5,101
Location
Marina del Rey
Took a bunch of photos in the shop (after making sure there wasn't a bunch of stuff on the benches :) ). As you'll see, it is quite cluttered, the floor hasn't been swept, there's sawdust and chips everywhere. And there are bits of material stored in every likely and unlikely space. And there are even some rusted machine tables. So you're welcome to give me the hell I deserve. But realize it is a working, one-man shop.

Looking past the radial arm saw you'll see my principal Unisaw, with sliding table track and fine carbide crosscut blade, and a 3-1/2 hp router built alongside it, so the Unifence functions for both.

shop-1_zpswjliawky.jpg


On the other side of the shop, looking past the scroll saw, is another Unisaw, with ripping (carbide) blade, and a contractor's saw, with 1/2" x 8" dado blade, built onto it. This is all mounted to a rolling base.

shop-2_zpsn3iobisa.jpg


Looking past the radial arm saw, the other way, you see an edge sander on the left, drill presses (behind the Harley), a carbide grinder, a vertical/horizontal mitering metal bandsaw, and portable air compressor.

shop-3_zpsxf6yjwrx.jpg


In the 4th corner of the shop, looking past the 20" wood bandsaw, on the left, and the thickness planer, on the right, you see the vertical mill and 50-ton hydraulic press.

shop-4_zpsijrniewy.jpg


Then looking past the mill and its rotary table you can just glimpse the (green) metal lathe.

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From the welding area, looking across the shop, you see my principal workbench which also serves as the outfeed table for the ripping tablesaw. To its left is the 24" disc sander. Behind the bench (and my Fishcat :) ), is a vertical panel saw.

shop-6_zpsm5lv8nfv.jpg


to be continued...
 

ztorres

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 22, 2016
Messages
195
Location
Iowa
Ez:

I'll take that mill and lathe off your hands free of charge for you [emoji6]
Looks great


Zach
 

ez-duzit

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
5,101
Location
Marina del Rey
...Looking across the previously mentioned workbench/outfeed table, you see the small woodworking bench which hides the welding table area (you can just make out the blue Miller Dynasty 200DX welder). On the wall is clamp storage. And, to the right of that, you see another workbench which also functions as an outfeed table for the other tablesaw.

shop-7_zpsugsm9fca.jpg


Looking across the shop from the radial arm saw you see the vertical/horizontal mitering metal bandsaw, and the vertical metal bandsaw, with just a skinny glimpse of the 20" wood bandsaw between them, and the 24" sanding disc in the background.

shop-8_zpsohfy9yjs.jpg


Looking past the vertical mill you see the 20" wood bandsaw, on the left, and the stationary belt/disc sander, on the right.

shop-9_zpsia7zkf3l.jpg


Looking across the shop from the drill press area, you see the mill, hydraulic press, thickness plane and belt/disc sander.

shop-10_zpsykqzskma.jpg


Lastly, looking across the shop from the mill, you see the belt/disc sander, edge sander, drill presses and carbide grinder. The overhead cabinets were yard sale items ($110 for these plus more) from down the street.

shop-11_zpssj1eqdqp.jpg
 

ztorres

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 22, 2016
Messages
195
Location
Iowa
I had the opportunity to buy a mill for $300 and had a coordinate system but didn't have a place to put it. Needless to say biggest tool regret in my life.


Zach
 
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