Woodworking 101--Tools and Tips

[My Old Tools]

I have previously seen a site that covers the history and development of Stanley planes very well. In fact I think I have it bookmarked on my computer.
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The Stanley Blood and Gore by Patrick Leach.
http://www.supertool.com/

 

[jimreed2160]

I spent Monday and Tuesday this week on car maintenance and have more planned for Thursday. Then there was the trip to Dr to have stitches removed. All of these activities have cut seriously into my shoptime. I did get a chance to move some chisels to the new workbench where they might see some action. It seems to me that there is a tutorial there on making chisel handles.

I have always found satisfaction in rehabbing old chisels. Many of them, although abused, have lots of life left. And vintage chisels really appreciate getting a makeover. They almost appear to smile...

 

[mefast]

EVERYONE: Don't forget to add your comments, questions, and suggestions to CAN THIS PLANE BE SAVED. The original post was #1582

CRS, I'll play along. I think that plane can be saved. At least I hope so because the ones I just bought this past weekend look like they are in very similar condition (see post #1533).

As for what's different or unique about the plane, there's 3 things that seem different to me, but it might just be brand differences. Is the level cap is not original (don't know if National stamped theirs like Stanley, Record and other brands did)? If that's not it, the lateral adjustment seems shorter than I'm used to or perhaps there's something going on with the frog adjustment. Regardless, once you reveal it, I bet I'll learn something new.

 

[CRSINMICH]

CRS, I'll play along. I think that plane can be saved. At least I hope so because the ones I just bought this past weekend look like they are in very similar condition (see post #1533).

As for what's different or unique about the plane, there's 3 things that seem different to me, but it might just be brand differences. Is the level cap is not original (don't know if National stamped theirs like Stanley, Record and other brands did)? If that's not it, the lateral adjustment seems shorter than I'm used to or perhaps there's something going on with the frog adjustment. Regardless, once you reveal it, I bet I'll learn something new.

mefast: I apologize. I didn't mean to imply that there was a secret uniqueness to this plane. I was just trying to generate some comments. See? It worked. Really, the only thing I've found that is special is that it's a Canadian plane. Nice pick up on the lateral adjuster though. It is different. I think I've at least seen pictures of adjusters like that though. This plane does have its quirks. Thanks for commenting. Stay tuned for Phase 2.

 

[Craptain]

The Stanley Blood and Gore by Patrick Leach.
http://www.supertool.com/

That's it. Thanks

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[Craptain]

I did get a chance to move some chisels to the new workbench where they might see some action. It seems to me that there is a tutorial there on making chisel handles.

I have always found satisfaction in rehabbing old chisels. Many of them, although abused, have lots of life left. And vintage chisels really appreciate getting a makeover. They almost appear to smile...

I agree wholeheartedly. I find the process relaxing and satisfying. I have about 20 each wood handled and plastic handled ones awaiting some love. That is all I have made on the lathe recently.

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[CRSINMICH]

CAN THIS PLANE BE SAVED​

Special note: I have written this assuming a basic or beginner level of knowledge. It is Woodworking 101 after all. Don't be put off too quickly if it seems too elemetary.

PHASE 2- Disassembly and Assessment​

See original post #1582

Due to the limitations on the number of pictures that can be attached to a GJ post, I had to break Phase 2 into three parts.

In Phase 1 we gave the plane a quick once-over. It was made by National and it's 5 1/2, a size that does not show up at sales very often. The wooden parts were in good shape with no splits, breaks or gouges. The casting is 5/32ths thick, the same as a Stanley No.6. The sole is smooth and it has no gouges. The mouth opening is regular and is not damaged. There is a fine layer of rust and dust over all the metal parts but it is not pitted. The paint on the interior of the bed is 90%-95% intact. With these positives showing, the plane was purchased for $15.

In Phase 2 the plane will be completely disassembled and each part will get a thorough inspection. Let's get to it.

Phase 2A - Cap Iron and Cutting Iron​

The first picture is an annotated drawing of plane anatomy. I added it so that we're all speaking the same language. I'll let the rest of the pictures speak for themselves. This plane's "quirks" started to show up here. Special note to EZ: Notice the dark background on picture 4? Great tip. Thanks!

Phase 2B - "The Frog" coming next.

I'd like to read anyone's comments, questions, suggestions, or reactions.

 

[mefast]

mefast: I apologize. I didn't mean to imply that there was a secret uniqueness to this plane. I was just trying to generate some comments. See? It worked. Really, the only thing I've found that is special is that it's a Canadian plane.

If being Canadian makes us 'special' I appreciate the compliment, unless you mean short bus special...

The Stanleys I bought said 'MADE IN CAN' on one of them. It's hard to find anything new that says that anymore. The last I saw was a hockey jersey, but now I'm getting into an entirely different conversation.

 

[CRSINMICH]

If being Canadian makes us 'special' I appreciate the compliment, unless you mean short bus special...

The Stanleys I bought said 'MADE IN CAN' on one of them. It's hard to find anything new that says that anymore. The last I saw was a hockey jersey, but now I'm getting into an entirely different conversation.

I live about 20 km north of Windsor. (I've made that joke for years and the only people who seemed to get it were a couple from Toronto we met in Germany.) There is another joke around here that, "If you have as much Canadian change as US in your pocket you just might be from Detroit". It's true too except for the disappearing pennies. You'd think that Canadian tools would show up too but I only have an RAE pipe vise, a Shurley-Dietrich backsaw, and this plane.

 

[trainer]

EVERYONE: Don't forget to add your comments, questions, and suggestions to CAN THIS PLANE BE SAVED. The original post was #1582

That plane looks like it has parts from two or three different brands.

Not necessarily a bad thing. I was at an auction recently where there was were quite a few planes. A few guys were getting into ******* matches over some very ordinary Stanleys. I got a nice #5 with a record lever cap for $5 . It turned out to be a 1931 or 32 Stanley sweetheart. I didn't even need to sharpen it.

 

[CRSINMICH]

That plane looks like it has parts from two or three different brands.

Not necessarily a bad thing. I was at an auction recently where there was were quite a few planes. A few guys were getting into ******* matches over some very ordinary Stanleys. I got a nice #5 with a record lever cap for $5 . It turned out to be a 1931 or 32 Stanley sweetheart. I didn't even need to sharpen it.

trainer: Great score on that Record/Stanley. This National is turning out to be a Frankenplane with mismatched and fabricated parts. Look what I found on the cutting iron. I bought the plane primarily because it was a 5 1/2 but also because it was an unknown brand. Thanks for your comment.

 

[Craptain]

I started on my own disaster plane yesterday. Even though I have much more pressing work to do. For sure it is a mess. The blade is very thin and is not Stanley, or at least marked as such. It is also slightly bent. The screw for the tote was actually a bolt that went right through the sole. I believe that the original thread was stripped and then drilled through. Or maybe not? Nonetheless it is going to need a lot of love to bring it back to operating condition. Now that I have removed much of the grime I will see about some pictures. My hands were just too bad to take pictures yesterday.

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[CRSINMICH]

I started on my own disaster plane yesterday. Even though I have much more pressing work to do. For sure it is a mess. The blade is very thin and is not Stanley, or at least marked as such. It is also slightly bent. The screw for the tote was actually a bolt that went right through the sole. I believe that the original thread was stripped and then drilled through. Or maybe not? Nonetheless it is going to need a lot of love to bring it back to operating condition. Now that I have removed much of the grime I will see about some pictures. My hands were just too bad to take pictures yesterday.

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Craptain: I've heard about that 'repair' technique. Drilling through the sole seems a bit drastic, but it really shouldn't affect performance as long as everything else is okay. Stanley blades can be had. So can Hock blades but you might have to hock your house first. Hocks are very good blades made from good steel. They are extra thick too. I've heard that the extra thickness can cause problems on some planes. I have one on a Stanley No. 4. There haven't been problems because of the thickness but I did adjust the frog backwards a little. Cuts great on either hard or soft wood and either thick or thin shavings. I accidently found out that it will cut brass too. No nicks - whew!

EVERYONE Don't forget to add comment or question to CAN THIS PLANE BE SAVED posts #1582 and #1615

 

[trainer]

Some of my planes.
First one is a #5 Stanley sw circa 1931-32. It came with a record lever cap
next is a #5-1/2 made in England, 1948-61 vintage
A trio of #4's, two craftsmans and a Stanley.

The Stanley is made in Canada, '48-61.

The middle craftsman appears to made by Stanley, Made in USA on the frame and Made in Canada on the blade. "bailey #4" cast into the toe
The frame appears identical to the Stanley other than COO markings. Sears-Craftsman badge is just a decal. I'm sure its all original because I inherited it from my father-in -law.

on the left is a Craftsman #4 size. I got it in a $5 box lot at an auction a few years. No problems with it and it seems equal to the others.
Its model 187,37064 DD, so it appears to have been supplied by Stanley, between 1971-88

 

[jimreed2160]

Nice planes, guys. Where are the shavings? Just poking at you--I did not have any ww time today either. Wife and I went out today for some fun on the town. She got a facial treatment and I got to swing by Sears.

And now the fixit bench has seating. Those $49 stools were calling my name. Sometimes you need to spend shop sessions just making the shop a better place.

 

[Autonomous]

A good seat can turn a tedious job into an enjoyable one.

 

[derosa]

Nice planes, guys. Where are the shavings? Just poking at you--I did not have any ww time today either.

Here's some shavings. Wife and I picked up this cheap pine bookcase for 40 at a craft show years ago, due to no back its a little rickety so we only used it for kid's books which were starting to overwhelm it. I bought a piece of luan for the back, thought it would snap in half from the wind bending it getting it into basement, if it hadn't bent the wind would have dragged it and me away. This was so well built that all the shelves stuck out on one side on the back and slightly recessed on the other. Recessed I could live with but sticking out wouldn't work for getting the back flat. Grabbed the jack and started with short strokes and progressively moved to longer ones till each shelf was flush with the sides and flat as possible. Touch of glue and finishing nails made it perfect. Produced some beatuful 2' long curls but they ended up mixed with the 2 years of dust and dog fur that accumulated under the book case.

 

[cheechi]

Jim

are those pliers hanging on this or something like it?

 

[derosa]

CRSINMICH, seems like an easy one, lap the sole on some wet sand paper, 400 grit, if it looks bad after a couple minutes progress down otherwise follow with 600, 800, & 1000; lightly do the sides and the blade and chip breaker at the same time. Sharpen the blade once clean and good to go. Maybe some turtle wax on the inside and frog and good to go.

 

[rrich1]

My planes I got recently. Craftsman and record are both #4 sized. Wards master #5.

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[CRSINMICH]

Phase 2B - The Frog​

PHASE 1 - Post #1582 - PHASE 2A - Post #1615​

Once the cutting iron, cap iron, and lever cap are removed the frog is exposed. The frog is the heart of a plane. It has to be seated well and be adjusted well in order for the plane to work well. Just ask Leonard Bailey. There should be at least two metal pads cast into the bottom of the frog. They are meant to register against bosses which are cast into the bed of the plane and then milled flat . When the frog is screwed onto the bed, the pads and bosses should be firmly seated against each other. The better the two parts register, the more firmly the frog will be held. Since the assembly consisting of lever cap, cap iron, and cutting iron is held against the frog, if the frog is steady then the cutting iron will be steady and the plane will cut smoothly. Conversely, if the frog moves, the cutting action of the plane will be badly affected. There are different methods for determining how well the frog is seated. I colored the matching parts with black Sharpie and then, while holding the frog in position with one hand and applying slight downward pressure, I moved it back and forth. Where the metal parts scrape against each other, the Sharpie will be rubbed off exposing bare metal. The more metal that is exposed the better the parts fit. The leading edge of the frog also serves as a pad. It registers against the top of the bed immediately behind the mouth opening. I applied Sharpium there too. Let's see how well the National did.

 

[CRSINMICH]

Phase 2B cont.​

As you can see from the Sharpie test there were very few points of contact between the frog and the bed. In Phase 2C we'll do the same test on the bed bosses and see if we can figure out what's going on. WARNING: If you're squeamish you may want to skip Phase 2C

 

[jimreed2160]

Derosa--Good job with the shelf. Pretty shavings.

Cheechi--That looks like the pegboard shelf. I like it because it holds a ton of tools.

RRich1--Nice planes. The Stanley and box have a 1970s look.

CRS--Good takedown on your plane so far. Hope this one makes it to the finish line.

 

[trainer]

Stanley no. 80 cabinet scraper.
I got this a few years ago at an auction.

The logo on the blade indicates 1912-18 manufacture in US , and the "sweetheart" logo on the cross-bar indicates about 1922 in Canada.

There's nothing particularly rare about sweetheart era stanleys (late 1910's to early '30s) but they are somewhat collectable because of their age.
Some consider them to be the best Stanley ever made because they had perfected the designs and manufacturing processes during that time and had not yet started to cut corners to meet cost restraints.

 

[My Old Tools]

Craptain: I've heard about that 'repair' technique. Drilling through the sole seems a bit drastic, but it really shouldn't affect performance as long as everything else is okay. Stanley blades can be had. So can Hock blades but you might have to hock your house first. Hocks are very good blades made from good steel. They are extra thick too. I've heard that the extra thickness can cause problems on some planes. I have one on a Stanley No. 4. There haven't been problems because of the thickness but I did adjust the frog backwards a little. Cuts great on either hard or soft wood and either thick or thin shavings. I accidently found out that it will cut brass too. No nicks - whew!

EVERYONE Don't forget to add comment or question to CAN THIS PLANE BE SAVED posts #1582 and #1615

Maybe you should ask "should this plane be saved". I usually will not bother with Frakenplanes and part them out to help others save a good plane. You are further hampered by it being an off brand where parts will be impossible to find to make it correct. Can you make a user out of it? Probably, but is it worth the effort when Stanley Bailey pattern planes are as common as dirt and readily available. Now on with the show. You're doing a nice job so far.

 

[CRSINMICH]

jim: Enjoy that stool. My back feels better just looking at it.

Maybe you should ask "should this plane be saved".

Old Tools: I take your point. Stayed tuned for Phase 2C. It gets worse.

trainer: I got a No.80 a couple of years ago. Handy thing once I learned how to sharpen it properly. Why don't you post how you go about it? We're here to learn.

rrich1: I have some information someplace about the different versions of the CRAFTSMAN logo including the yellow one with the crenulations on top. If I can find it I'll post it for you.

EDIT: rrich1 Seek and ye shall find. Here are some catalog drawings of Craftsman planes. One is from 1960 and the other is 1972. There are three very slight differences between these two #4s. Can you find them? The description of the 1960 model says it has a 4 edge cutter but the drawing shows it with a regular cutting iron.

 

[Shiftless]

Following along again after too long away from this fascinating thread.
Great work guys

 

[My Old Tools]

Here is a little tutorial I put together on the #80 many years ago...
http://www.myoldtools.com/table/stanley80.htm

and the end result...
http://www.myoldtools.com/table/20071216-20071216-_MG_6059.jpg

There is no glue and no metal fasteners at all in this table, just wood joinery. The top is splined with breadboard ends.
http://www.myoldtools.com/table/spline.jpg
http://www.myoldtools.com/table/20071202-20071202-_MG_6049.jpg
The base is mortise and tenon.
http://www.myoldtools.com/table/20071216-20071216-_MG_6060.jpg
The two are joined with sliding dovetails.
http://www.myoldtools.com/table/20071202-20071202-_MG_6051.jpg

 

[CRSINMICH]

Here is a little tutorial I put together on the #80 many years ago...
http://www.myoldtools.com/table/stanley80.htm

Old Tools: Wonderful tutorial for a wonderful tool. I used mine on the kerfing plane I posted some time back. The mystery wood had some wild grain that the #80 breezed through.

 

[rrich1]

jim: Enjoy that stool. My back feels better just looking at it.



Old Tools: I take your point. Stayed tuned for Phase 2C. It gets worse.

trainer: I got a No.80 a couple of years ago. Handy thing once I learned how to sharpen it properly. Why don't you post how you go about it? We're here to learn.

rrich1: I have some information someplace about the different versions of the CRAFTSMAN logo including the yellow one with the crenulations on top. If I can find it I'll post it for you.

EDIT: rrich1 Seek and ye shall find. Here are some catalog drawings of Craftsman planes. One is from 1960 and the other is 1972. There are three very slight differences between these two #4s. Can you find them? The description of the 1960 model says it has a 4 edge cutter but the drawing shows it with a regular cutting iron.

I know my plane was made by Stanley for Craftsman. Sargent and Miller's falls also made planes for Craftsman as well. Thanks for the catalog pages. I've seen the ones with the slots into the sides and don't like them as well.

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[Craptain]

Here are a few pics of today's progress.
Cleaned the sides and base with scotchbrite which showed up the mistreatment and neglect. Someone has previously hit this with some type of grinder and scored the base a little. The inner part went in the bead blaster and got a gentle blasting that cleaned out the **** and what was left of the paint.






Full days work tomorrow so probably no further till next week.

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[jimreed2160]

Craptain--I admire your spirit for working on the poor plane. It will be a great educational experience and should be fun. I personally have not had very good luck with post WWII Stanley bench planes but YMMV. Good luck.

 

[CRSINMICH]

rrich: I just noticed that your Record has Marples cast into the toe. Those are probably the two biggest names in British cutting edge tools. I'm going to have to investigate this further. Is there a name stamped into the cutting iron? That's where I'd expect to find Marples. They make wonderful chisels. (Well, they made wonderful chisels. Chinese made now.) If you have a chance and the time, could you post a picture of the toe so that all of the words around the knob can be read? Oh boy! More tool investigations.

trainer: You posted a Record too. Does it say Marples on the toe?

Craptain: I'm intrigued by your third picture. The one that shows the inside of the bed. The area where the frog sits is unusual, at least to me. It's Y-shaped. The machined bosses are just to the rear of the screw holes. The single stem of the Y that goes toward the mouth, is that also a pad for the frog? It looks like it could be seated rock solid if everything went together well. I can't wait until the next installment.

 

[mefast]

Nice planes, guys. Where are the shavings?

Jim,
Ask and you shall receive. Not a lot of progress on cleaning up the bench, but it's a start:

View media item 68679
View media item 68680
This was more to just test out each of the new to me planes. I've taken a real liking to the No. 7. As far as I can tell, it's a Type 4 (prelateral adjustment), which means it's been around since the late 1800's:

View media item 68683
View media item 68682
It's amazing that these tools not old still exist, but can still work well. I'd love to do a full restoration on it. I feel like it deserves to look good once again.

One step to achieving that restoration, was to pick up a granite slab so I can true up the sole. To my pleasure, a local countertop store gave me two pieces for no charge:

View media item 68681
Hopefully this weekend I'll find some time to make a bit of progress on my growing list of projects.

 

[trainer]

trainer: You posted a Record too. Does it say Marples on the toe

Actually mine is a Stanley #5 that came with a Record lever cap on it.

 

[jar944]

Picked up a lathe a couple months ago and finally got around to using it. I think it came out OK. It's been 20 years since I used a wood lathe and even then it was only a candy dish.




My wife bought the tilt table base, and it's just about too far gone to repair. I figured I would see if copying it was a viable option.

 

[jimreed2160]

Mefast--I really like your #7. But then I am partial to all #7s. Prelateral type 4 is from 1874-1884. It always surprises me to find old tools around after all that time and still in working order. Maybe it is because planes are special purpose tools and cannot be easily repurposed/misused for something else.

I am taking a breather from ww this week. Not so much from choice, but life sometimes gets in the way. I am 2/3 of the way through vehicle maintenance and took some time today to wash north Florida spring pollen off the Marauder.

 

[jimreed2160]

Jar--Nice work on the lathe. Even with the passage of time, it seems that you still have the touch. Good luck with your rehab.

 

[trainer]

Mefast: I've got a plane that looks almost identical to yours. It belonged to my late neighbour and it was pretty roached when I got it.

Lots of pitting on the blade and chip breaker. some pitting on the sole, but it cleaned up ok. Frog has a broken piece, but it doesn't affect the operation.

Mine has a lateral adjustment and a corrugated sole.

There's a brand logo on the blade but it's pretty pitted and hard to make out. It looks like a globe with rays radiating from it and a star on top.

It's very ugly but it really works nice.


The little block plane in the backround is a Simpson-Sears brand. Simpson-sears is what Sears was known as in Canada in the 60's and 70's

 

[CRSINMICH]

Phase 2C - Bosses on the Bed
​

(This will be the last regular post of this series but I will continue to ask for your help and keep you updated)​

Phase #1 - post 1582 Phase #2A - post #1615 Phase 2B - post #1629​

Here's where the faults of this plane go from being quirky to potentially serious. I need suggestions for how to deal with this. The result of what I do will determine whether this plane ends up being a user or a conversation piece.
In Phase 2B we found out that the frog was not registering well against the bosses on the bed of the plane. This needs to be dealt with if the plane is going to be usable. Now, we're going to examine the bed bosses.