JEFinCLE
Well-known member
Gracias!
The Vintage Craftsman GP Motor Thread
- Thread starter 11b30b4
- Start date
Another member of the no pancake cap in my drill press motor club. Picked up a model 100 over the winter and the PO stuck a round cap under the motor and used stand offs with longer bolts.
After seeing user Hoorn with the plywood spacer mod I thought I would do something similar.
I purchased some 3/8" thick by 1" bar and welded up a frame a little bit bigger than the motor base. I did not want to modify anything on the motor and was able use the existing mounting holes. I also did not want to just leave the cap loose in the bottom.
One other thing I noticed about these motors is that they have very little room for the On-Off switch and when I replace switch's I use a double pole so it switches both hot and neutral wires. A new switch would not fit without the extra space on the bottom.
Pictures should describe what I did.
After seeing user Hoorn with the plywood spacer mod I thought I would do something similar.
I purchased some 3/8" thick by 1" bar and welded up a frame a little bit bigger than the motor base. I did not want to modify anything on the motor and was able use the existing mounting holes. I also did not want to just leave the cap loose in the bottom.
One other thing I noticed about these motors is that they have very little room for the On-Off switch and when I replace switch's I use a double pole so it switches both hot and neutral wires. A new switch would not fit without the extra space on the bottom.
Pictures should describe what I did.
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Hoorn
Well-known member
Thanks for the kind words! Will be awhile till its mounted back up, hopefully I can get the main body blasted and painted this long weekend.
The motor does have the shaft cover on it.
Kevin
Hoorn
Well-known member
Nice! Paint is in terrific condition. Good looking motor also. Those are a needle in three haystacks!
JEFinCLE
Well-known member
Thankfully, my sardine can appears to be hanging in there just fine. But, I sure know where to look if it ever goes South!
I have the shaft cover for mine, too, but it apparently was added sometime after it first went out. It's the same gray as nutjob's but the motor is black with a blue band. I think it is going to turn blue before it goes back together.
I have the shaft cover for mine, too, but it apparently was added sometime after it first went out. It's the same gray as nutjob's but the motor is black with a blue band. I think it is going to turn blue before it goes back together.
Hi, is your motor mounted to the motor mount plate with 4 bolts? I have numerous Craftsman saw mounting brackets and my motor will not fit any of them including a 1939 saw. Every Craftsman saw mount I've seen have then same motor mount bracket. I could mount it to a saw and use only the top two bolts but I'm reluctant to do that.
Hi, I have a very similar motor which I haven't rebuilt yet but has a different model number. But it may aid your search for info. Model is 115.5764.Timely resurrection of this thread...I am a couple days away from re-assembly of a 1941 Craftsman motor that I haven't been able to find an exact match for on VM. I believe it is this motor from the 1941 catalog:
Here's the nameplate:
As best I can see, the model number is 115.8345 -- could be 115.6345, but neither have a manual on VM. It does have the "remote" forward/reverse/off switch as in the catalog listing. I've painted the band with Rustoleum Midnight Blue, which is a very close match to the original. I painted the end bells and base with black wrinkle finish and they came out pretty well.
I would be interested in learning more about how to recreate the nameplate. 11b's always look so perfect.
The motor came off a 1941 floor model 15" drill press with the table/head lift. It is in pretty remarkable shape and should make a great piece if I can force myself to not get in a rush and take shortcuts. I've already created more work for myself by not letting the paint fully cure for a couple days before I removed the masking from the nameplate. I don't "need" this drill press, so maybe I can contain myself.
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ToolEnthusiasts
Member
I need help replacing the bearings on the
I was requested to outline some of my comparison information about Vintage Craftsman General Purpose Motors by a fellow GJ member. Most of this information was available on the forum prior to the 2021 forum update but has been lost or difficult to locate ever since.
I am not an electrician and my knowledge of motors in general is fairly limited, but I will endeavor to provide some relevant information here. If you are restoring a vintage piece of Craftsman powered tool equipment, chances are you will have one of these motors or a variation of one outlined here.
I welcome your comments, questions, input, and contributions to this thread so that we can all have a resource to assist others.
Craftsman sold most of their power tool equipment in the pre and post WWII eras without motors. You would buy a drill press or similar tool and mount a motor to the tool. Almost all of these tools were belt driven and required an ac motor ranging from ¼ - 2 HP depending on the tool and the needs of the user. These motors typically came in three RPM variations: 1725 RPM, 1750 RPM, and 3450 RPM.
Drill Presses and other tools used 1725/ 1750 RPM motors in 1/4HP, 1/3HP, 1/2HP, 1 HP, and 2HP; although ½ HP seems to be the most common. Table Saws, Sander, Jointers, and other tools used 3450 RPM motors in similar HP ratings. Almost all of these motors were thermally protected utilizing a Klixon Thermal protection switch incorporated into the motor housing.
Most of these motors were not wired with a power cord when purchased and it was left to the owner to wire the motor for their application. Further, most of these motors were reversible and often had dual shaft configurations.
The majority of these motors were capacitor start motors, but a few were split phase motors. Lastly, most of these motors utilized ball bearings; however, a few utilized sleeve bearings. I will try to break down these differences and explain some general design features of these motors before we start to look at the various motors themselves.
Like I said, I am not an electrician so speaking intelligently about horsepower or amperage are not in my skill set. I typically follow the recommend HP listed in the owner’s manual for the power tool I am rebuilding. Since we are talking about vintage machinery, most of the time these tools will include a motor that the previous owner (PO) affixed to the equipment. This is not a given that the PO utilized the correct motor and there are times where the PO used a non-Craftsman motor. I prefer to replace the motor in these instances with a period correct Craftsman motor.
Another thing to be aware of is that Craftsman did not make these motors. Craftsman contacted motor manufacturers to produce these motors for the Craftsman line of tools. This means that most of these motors were produced by GE, Dunlap, Emerson, Packard Electric, Sunlight Electric, Delco to name a few.
Your first starting point for vintage Craftsman powered tools and the motors is the Vintage Machinery site here:
On the Sears Craftsman page, you can find most of the user manuals and parts diagrams you need to rebuild your vintage tools (look for the publication reprints tab). There is a photo index of powered tools as well as a ton of information. One of the first things you should notice is the list of known makers. This list has links to the actual manufacturer of Craftsman power tool you are researching. Locate the model number of what you are looking for and the prefix should lead you to the manufacturer. For example, the 115.6962 motor has a prefix of 115 and was manufactured for Craftsman by the Sunlight Electrical Manufacturing Company or Packard Electric Company. This will aid in determining the age of your tool and possible date of manufacturing.
One of the largest Craftsman power tool communities here on GJ is the Classic Craftsman King Seeley Drill Press thread started by the Awesome FrankLee. In determining the age of these amazing drill presses (DP) we often look for date stamps on the motors associated with the DPs as well as the dates on the capacitors. In general, we can determine the date of manufacturing within a few years with this information along with design features known to evolve in the 4 decades these machines were made.
So you have a power tool and you need a motor, you locate the owner’s manual for your tool on Vintage Machinery and it says you need a ½ HP 1725 RPM motor or you already have a motor but you do not know what type motor you have. Do you need or have a split phase or capacitor start motor? What is the difference between the two and is one better than the other?
Split Phase vs Capacitor Start Motors
Induction motors use an electromagnetic process produced by the run windings in the stator to spin the rotor/ shaft. This rotation on most of the motors we will discuss is reversible to suit the needs of the user. Regardless, induction motors need something extra to interrupt the normal phase of the energized run windings to start the spinning of the rotor. For the motors we are discussing here, there are two methods to accomplish this. If there is no interruption in the run phase of the windings a rotor will likely just wiggle back and forth a very small amount and the motor will hum. On a capacitor start motor this normally means the capacitor is bad. On a split phase motor, this normally means there is a problem with the start phase windings (possibly a break in the winding).
A Capacitor start motor will have a capacitor attached to the motor. In the 115 series motor it is a sardine can size rectangle enclose in the base of the motor. On a 397 series motor, the capacitor may be inside the motor housing or attached to the outside of the stator band in a covered hump. There are motors with more than one capacitor, but we are not going to discuss those motors in this thread. In general terms, a capacitor start motor will start with more torque and more efficiency than a split phase motor. Further, if the capacitor is bad, you can replace it and most likely the motor will run fine.
A split phase motor interrupts the phase of the run windings by energizing a second set of windings in the stator. This second set of windings is referred to as the start phase windings. There will most likely not be a capacitor on these motors, and you should be able to see a physical difference between he two types of windings inside the stator. Regardless, if the motor refuses to start, it is likely there is a break in the start phase windings and fixing this will more than likely be difficult. For this reason, I prefer the capacitor start motor over the split phase motor.
Lastly, when you turn an induction motor on there is a centrifugal switch on the rotor that at a certain rotation speed disengages the start phase of the motor. On a capacitor start motor, this switch disconnects the capacitor. On a split phase motor this switch cuts power to the start phase windings. If you have a motor that will start but then starts to smoke, it is likely the centrifugal switch failing to cut power to the capacitor or start phase windings. When you turn off the motor, as it spins down you should hear a single click. That is the centrifugal switch returning to the start position. If you do not hear this click, you may a problem. I have taken these switches apart to clean, but I have had some bad experiences with switches that worked fine before I disassembled them and later failed to operate correctly. Now I don’t really mess with them and choose to leave them intact during my cleaning process.
Bearings- Ball bearings and Sleeve Bearings
Ball bearings come in an insane number of sizes, types, and variations for an equally insane number of applications. Before we deep dive into ball bearings, what type of ball bearings do you need for your motor? If you have located your owner’s manual on Vintage Machinery and you look at the parts diagram you may see a part number associated with the ball bearing. Something like Part No. 908502 Ball Bearing – New Departure. Well this is some help, but it will take a bit more to locate and order a replacement ball bearing for your motor. So, some intelligent people on Vintage Machinery built a Craftsman Replacement Ball Bearing List for us all to use. Here is the link:
Ball bearings for these motors are typically single row, deep groove, shielded (one side) ball bearings. Some will have extended races, and some will have metric measurements but require a very specific 5/8” inner diameter. There are shielded, sealed and open versions of most of the bearings.
Shielded and Open Bearings
Shielded bearings have a metal shield covering the balls on one side and a double shielded bearing will have a metal shielded on both sides of the bearing. These are pictures of a New Departure 8502 Radial/Deep Groove Ball Bearing One Side Single Seal and One Side Open. This is the actual bearing that is used in the 115 motor and is Craftsman Part No. 908502. Note that typically an open sided ball bearing will have a felt or wool washer inside the motor that will protect the open side.
In the first pic notice the nomenclature stamped into the shield “ND 8502 MADE IN USA”. Often these bearing companies are no longer in business; however, you can still find new/ old stock of these bearings on ebay or you can find comparable bearings from other manufacturers.
Sealed Ball Bearings
Very similar to shielded bearings, sealed bearings use a synthetic material to seal the bearing. Plastics and other materials are normally used and are often black, red, green or blue in color. Sealed ball bearings are typically sealed on both sides and the nomenclature is stamped into the seal or on the edge of the race. In the picture above you can see this is an 88503 bearing. There is no manufacturer name on the bearing, and these are most likely made in china. This is a replacement bearing for the New Departure 88503 felt seal bearing used on Delta grinders. The original New Departure bearing was a one side shielded felt seal bearing. Also note this bearing is an extended race bearing. The race of a bearing is the metal wall on the outside and inside the bore of the bearing. On this bearing the extended race is the inner race, and this ensures a larger coverage of the rotor shaft.
So why are there shielded and sealed bearings? Well one difference is the tolerance the bearing has inside. Depending on application, a ball bearing is made with more or less tolerance to balance speed, use and friction. Another difference is friction itself. Typically, a sealed bearing will generate more friction and produce more heat. Over time this can shorten the life of the bearing but ensure a contaminate free interior. Again, there are millions of uses for ball bearings and most likely an equal number of bearing types. For motors and most other vintage tools, I prefer shielded bearings, but I have used sealed bearings in these applications with no ill effects. I am not a fan of the open ball bearing and when I replace an OEM bearing, I try to do so with a double shielded bearing.
Lastly, the biggest difference in shielded and sealed bearings is more than likely, the price. Sealed bearings are the most common and are almost always cheaper than shielded and even open bearings. For replacement bearings, if you locate new/ old stock on ebay you can pay about $40.00 for a new departure bearing but the same bearing from china may cost $4.00. I recommend you buy bearings from Accurate bearings here:
Bearing Supplier Leader In USA & International | Same-Day Shipping
Top US & international bearing supplier of electric motor bearings and power transmission parts with no minimum orders and same-day shipping. Accurate Bearing Company is the industry's value leader.www.accuratebearing.com
You will need measurements for the bearing, and you can use this chart to figure out what you need.
If you are ordering bearings from an Asia manufacturer, Japanese manufacturers are higher quality than almost all the Chinese manufacturers. In the end, bearings are an extremely important component in your tool or motor and ensures a level of accuracy and smooth operation. If you plan on opening up a motor or tool to clean/ paint it, then go ahead and take the time to replace the bearings with quality bearings. This is a fairly simple and cheap thing you can do to tune up that tool.
Sleeve Bearings
Sleeve Bearings are simple a wool or felt wick stuffed into a cavity on the end frames of a motor. The wool or felt is lubricated with oil and there is a thin metal shield between the wick and the rotor shaft.
In this picture you can make out the thin metal shield that is the bore for the rotor shaft. behind the shield you can make out the felt wick.
In this pic you can see a rubber cap in the bottom of the pic below the data plate. on a sleeve bearing motor there will be two of these rubber caps, one on each end frame to lubricate each sleeve bearing. I am sure there is some chart out there that tells you how often you should lubricate the sleeve bearings, but I just do it every year and that seems to work for me.
You can imagine that if you over lube the sleeve bearings and the motor is place vertically, it will more than likely leak oil. The mess in general and the less efficient nature of a sleeve bearing makes this my least desirable type of motor to use. It seems to me that the sleeve bearings and split phase motors both seem to be cost cutting methods in motor design; however, like I said, I am not an electrician.
Now let’s talk Craftsman motors.
115.6962 Motor
These are probably the most common and iconic vintage Craftsman motors. There are several motors numbers in this family that are essentially the same motor but in different HPs and RPMs. They are capacitor start ball bearing motors and although there are several similar models, I will talk specifically about the 115.6962 Motor. Most Craftsman general purpose motors were never equipped with on/ off switches; however, it is not uncommon to find an on/off switch in one side of the base and the power cord projecting from the other side of the base.
This motor is 32.5 pounds and is 12 ½” long from shaft ends. The housing is 8 5/8” long and 6 ¼” in diameter. The dual rotor shafts are non-keyed ½” shafts; however, the bearings engage the rotor shaft at a wider part and require a 15mm bore.
In this pic you can see the two end frames, they are made of cast iron as is the base. The terminal cover, switch shield, air cone, and condenser shield are all made of sheet steel. The two felt retainer discs are also in the pic as well as the rotor.
This is the centrifugal switch on the rotor of a 115 motor
This is the stator of a 115 motor. Notice the Klixon thermal protection switch (red button) and the lead wires running to the terminal board and switch assembly for the centrifugal switch.
The lead wires in many of these motors are very stiff and brittle. They have a fabric heat shielding on them that is probably asbestos or similar dangerous material. Exercise care when working with these wires to not break them, if they break close to the windings, it will be very hard to replace them. If you do need to replace a lead wire or extend a broken one, you need to use a high heat lead wire like 16-gauge stranded silicone insulated wire.
This is a pic of the terminal end frame. note the back side of the Klixon, terminal board, and switch assembly for the centrifugal switch in the center. When the motor is at rest or spinning slowly the centrifugal switch is extended on the rotor shaft and is in contact with this switch allowing power to the capacitor (or in a split phase motor, to the start phase windings). Once the rotor spins to a specific speed, the fingers on the centrifugal switch spread and compress the switch causing it to disengage the switch assembly.
This pic is a outside looking in of the terminal board. Notice the two lead wires visible, these can be reversed to reverse the direction of the motor rotation.
In this pic you can see (from left to right) the end frame, open side of the ball bearing, spring washer, fiber gasket, end cap, felt seal, and felt seal cover. One of the cool design features of these 115 motors is that you can access the bearing without opening the motor.
This is another pic of a terminal end frame; however, notice the metal rectangle on the right side. This is the capacitor on these old 115 motors. These are commonly referred to as sardine can capacitors and are no longer produced. If your capacitor is bad, you will need to replace it with a similar spec round capacitor. This is one of the drawbacks of these motors, there is very little room in the base of the motor and a round capacitor will not fit into the base without some modification. A search for Hoorn here on the GJ should provide some pics for how he fabricated a spacer for a motor to fit a round capacitor.
This pic is the data stamped on one of these sardine can capacitors. Should you need to replace the capacitor make sure you get a comparable one with similar rated MFD and voltage. Also, note the date of manufacture 5-2-50. Chances are this motor was purchased with the drill press it was affixed to and could help in determining the age of the drill press.
One of the largest benefits to the 115 motor is that it cleans up nicely. Just cleaning and repainting are fairly simple but the stator band on these motors was removable and often the original is too far gone.
The original stator band was a polished steel band with satin 1/8” lines on it. In the pic above you can see some of the original finish that was left under the data plate. I prefer to use a piece of sheet aluminum cut to the same size.
Next, I polish the aluminum
Then I apply 1/8” vinyl masking and scuff the exposed aluminum with a scotch-brite pad.
The finished product is fairly close to the original.
With new bearings, a fresh coat of paint and a newly fabricated stator band, this motor looks and runs great.
That covers this update, I will expand on other motors in the coming days.
Thanks for the interest.
115.6962 motor. I can't seem to remove the bell housings. Although, I am not sure I need to remove them to replace the bearings. I already got the motor painted without a complete disassembly but the bearing noise was so bad I need to go back and replace them. How do I go about removing and replacing them with out destroying the motor?
I need to get this motor working so I can use freshly rebuilt Mohawk drill press. Oh, I also can use a lead on a pulley for the motor if anyone knows of on available.
Thanks for any help.
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
Fantastic thread and write ups. I especially love how you are reproducing your own motor bands! Subscribed for sure
JEFinCLE
Well-known member
Yep, Bobbi, I believe the only difference between your motor and mine is the forward/reverse/off switch.
JEFinCLE
Well-known member
ToolEnthusiasts, have you pulled those bearing caps off yet? I believe you'll find the bearings in there are open and can be greased in place. Might try that before replacing them. With the caps off, it's pretty easy to tell if the bearings are just dried out, or truly shot.I need help replacing the bearings on the
115.6962 motor. I can't seem to remove the bell housings. Although, I am not sure I need to remove them to replace the bearings. I already got the motor painted without a complete disassembly but the bearing noise was so bad I need to go back and replace them. How do I go about removing and replacing them with out destroying the motor?
I need to get this motor working so I can use freshly rebuilt Mohawk drill press. Oh, I also can use a lead on a pulley for the motor if anyone knows of on available.
Thanks for any help.
ToolEnthusiasts, message FrankLee here on the forum for the pulley.
JefInCle, is spot on. The reason the bearing caps can be removed with the motor sealed is to do just that. Grease the open bearing.
As for removing the bearings, Remove the 4 long screws that hold the end bells on. Remove the end bell that does not contain the centrifugal switch. Remove the armature. Remove the old bearings from the armature, replace with new bearings. Reinstall the armature, end bells, and long screws.
JefInCle, is spot on. The reason the bearing caps can be removed with the motor sealed is to do just that. Grease the open bearing.
As for removing the bearings, Remove the 4 long screws that hold the end bells on. Remove the end bell that does not contain the centrifugal switch. Remove the armature. Remove the old bearings from the armature, replace with new bearings. Reinstall the armature, end bells, and long screws.
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
I worked a trade on this heritage eta sander. Regrettably it’s been spray bombed but the motor is ridiculous in size. Model 115.6891-3/4 hp mill type motor. I can’t find much info on these. Motor is dated from 02/49. The sander is a 12” version and normally calls for a 1/4 or 1/3 version. Any of you guys have one of these?
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Smokeshow69
Well-known member
Hoorn
Well-known member
@Smokeshow69 how about two of these. Here is the April 1957 with a 115.19780 motor with original power bronze paint. I just gave this one a good cleaning.
And here is a before and after of a July 1957 split phase 115.19750. I went with champagne mist for the power bronze, new bearings, etc. They are fun resto projects, enjoy brother!
And here is a before and after of a July 1957 split phase 115.19750. I went with champagne mist for the power bronze, new bearings, etc. They are fun resto projects, enjoy brother!
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
Holy smokes@Smokeshow69 how about two of these. Here is the April 1957 with a 115.19780 motor with original power bronze paint. I just gave this one a good cleaning.
And here is a before and after of a July 1957 split phase 115.19750. I went with champagne mist for the power bronze, new bearings, etc. They are fun resto projects, enjoy brother!
… those are beautiful works of art! How long did it take you to restore those? Do you have a thread on these? It doesn’t look super complicated.
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Hoorn
Well-known member
Thanks Smoke, here is a short thread I did on the one I actually had to strip and paint.
Thread '1958 Craftsman 12" disc sander' https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/1958-craftsman-12-disc-sander.490091/
The other with the engine turned band was in decent shape when I bought it, I just changed out the bearings and spent a few days cleaning and polishing.
There were so many anomalies with Craftsman tools and machines between the changeover from the blue-gray to power bronze and the heritage logo to crown top, it's really hard to pin anything down. In particular the power bronze era motors, within that one year span, had PB end caps with an engine turned band, PB end caps and band, PB band and brown end caps. All the while the logo is changing as well.
Regarding the resto process, these disc sanders are very simple and straight forward. A pleasure to do because of minimal parts and simplistic disassembly/assembly.
Thread '1958 Craftsman 12" disc sander' https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/1958-craftsman-12-disc-sander.490091/
The other with the engine turned band was in decent shape when I bought it, I just changed out the bearings and spent a few days cleaning and polishing.
There were so many anomalies with Craftsman tools and machines between the changeover from the blue-gray to power bronze and the heritage logo to crown top, it's really hard to pin anything down. In particular the power bronze era motors, within that one year span, had PB end caps with an engine turned band, PB end caps and band, PB band and brown end caps. All the while the logo is changing as well.
Regarding the resto process, these disc sanders are very simple and straight forward. A pleasure to do because of minimal parts and simplistic disassembly/assembly.
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Another update on my drill press motor. Blasted and painted, used the Ace Hardware gray and it looks like a good match for the old gray motors.
The band had heavy rust on it, no chance to save any of the stripes. Blasted it and painted first coat with a GM rally wheel silver paint. Put on 1/8" tape and eyeballed the gap between. Than sprayed a chrome / bright silver paint. The band looks pretty good, even with the deep rust pits.
I wanted to find the right rivet to attach the name plate with. Best I could do was an brass eyelet 3mm wide. Purchased a kit from Ebay that had the correct setting tools. The eyelet fit the hole just right but this size has a bigger "head" than the original. Lots of eyelet options cheaper but not easy to find the 2 setter tools separately.
Eyelet kit: https://www.ebay.com/itm/144573005175
Pictures:
Kevin
The band had heavy rust on it, no chance to save any of the stripes. Blasted it and painted first coat with a GM rally wheel silver paint. Put on 1/8" tape and eyeballed the gap between. Than sprayed a chrome / bright silver paint. The band looks pretty good, even with the deep rust pits.
I wanted to find the right rivet to attach the name plate with. Best I could do was an brass eyelet 3mm wide. Purchased a kit from Ebay that had the correct setting tools. The eyelet fit the hole just right but this size has a bigger "head" than the original. Lots of eyelet options cheaper but not easy to find the 2 setter tools separately.
Eyelet kit: https://www.ebay.com/itm/144573005175
Pictures:
Kevin
Hoorn
Well-known member
gpstraub
Well-known member
Looks great! I'm taking lots of notes from this thread. I'll probably start stripping down my 1/2hp Craftsman this weekend. Are people still getting their bearings from Accurate Bearings? I think I was told to email Kevin there to get a pair?
Here is my experience from last month. The 6202 5/8 are plentiful on Amazon but seem to be all made in China. The motor 87502 IK are difficult to find.
I ordered these from Accurate and they are made in China bearings, that was only option for those part numbers. My order was for 8 bearings from IL to PA and shipping was $22.37.
Unless I can't find what I need someway else I won't deal with them again.
Kevin
Cruzan80
Well-known member
Never done business with these guys, but says they have Timken bearings under $7 each. My preference is for USA or Japan (Nachi).
www.sykessupply.com
6202-2RS 5/8 Bearing
Features two contact rubber seals & two non-contact metal shields, one of each on each side of the ball bearing. One of the shields or seals can be removed if application requires a ball bearing with only one seal or shield. Will service electric motor demands.
That is true for almost all manufacturers now. Even some of the German brands are now made in China. Name brand does not mean what it use to mean. A more expensive option is to buy new old stock off ebay. If its a machine for myself I will go the extra dollar but if its a resale or something I will rarely use, then I will opt for a lower cost bearing. For low cost, I have had good results with PGN from amazon.
Cruzan80
Well-known member
Sorry, yes. Was quick searching on my phone.
As far as eBay, Looks like there are several batches of SKF bearings 6202-10's (made in Italy) that are NOS on eBay, but they are 10packs (about $45 all told). Otherwise, finding Nachi (Made in Japan) NOS at about $60 for 10, or $30 for two. I know the Nachi's say they are rated for electric motor use.
As far as eBay, Looks like there are several batches of SKF bearings 6202-10's (made in Italy) that are NOS on eBay, but they are 10packs (about $45 all told). Otherwise, finding Nachi (Made in Japan) NOS at about $60 for 10, or $30 for two. I know the Nachi's say they are rated for electric motor use.
Hoorn
Well-known member
I'm with you guys on the pecking order as far as replacement bearings, but some of the issues with the NOS shielded bearings that are 40+ years old is that the grease inside can get crusty.
After sitting on a shelf that long, that grease has a finite lifespan and unless you have a surefire way of getting all the old crusty grease out and can then repack it with about 50 to 60% capacity, NOS might not be the way to go.
I'm speaking from experience. Some of my restorations I've done, I want to stay as true as possible so I ordered NOS New Departure bearings. I got an original box, I unwrapped the sealed and previously unopened wax paper, I smiled at the beautiful shiny American-made bearings and then heard a crunchy noise as I slowly turned the bearings.
I have tried several ways to pump grease into sealed bearings, none of which I'm especially pleased with. I'm not saying they'll all be like that, but obviously the older you go back with some of these "NOS" bearings the less likely they are to have workable grease.
Nothing wrong with open sided bearings either provided you stay on top of it. Ive removed one side of sealed New Departure bearings that would not turn. I cleaned them out and got them brilliantly shiny in and out , filled it with red n tacky and ran them in a Delta motor without issue. I would also point out that if you've ever removed one shield from an old shielded bearing and looked inside, you'll know what I mean about the near impossibility of getting all that crusty old dried up grease out of a shielded bearing and then replacing it with half capacity of your own.
After sitting on a shelf that long, that grease has a finite lifespan and unless you have a surefire way of getting all the old crusty grease out and can then repack it with about 50 to 60% capacity, NOS might not be the way to go.
I'm speaking from experience. Some of my restorations I've done, I want to stay as true as possible so I ordered NOS New Departure bearings. I got an original box, I unwrapped the sealed and previously unopened wax paper, I smiled at the beautiful shiny American-made bearings and then heard a crunchy noise as I slowly turned the bearings.
I have tried several ways to pump grease into sealed bearings, none of which I'm especially pleased with. I'm not saying they'll all be like that, but obviously the older you go back with some of these "NOS" bearings the less likely they are to have workable grease.
Nothing wrong with open sided bearings either provided you stay on top of it. Ive removed one side of sealed New Departure bearings that would not turn. I cleaned them out and got them brilliantly shiny in and out , filled it with red n tacky and ran them in a Delta motor without issue. I would also point out that if you've ever removed one shield from an old shielded bearing and looked inside, you'll know what I mean about the near impossibility of getting all that crusty old dried up grease out of a shielded bearing and then replacing it with half capacity of your own.
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gpstraub
Well-known member
Thanks Fellas. All very good info. Here's the motor I picked up on eBay. It looks fairly tidy. The power cord will definitely have to be replaced. I'll have a closer look at the bearings and test the capacitor, etc when I get it taken apart this weekend.
Attachments
gpstraub
Well-known member
Thank you for the confidence that I might be able to duplicate my efforts! I am still working on an issue that because of the locating tabs the cap terminals are pointed up/down. I am using flag terminals and the wires exit the cap at the top, this makes one wire a bit tight and I am not sure if I have enough clearance for the metal bottom cover. I knew this was going to be an issue during design but figured I would deal with later at assembly/wiring stage...
Anyway, if I did this again I would look at mounting the cap bracket sideways or just use 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" tall bar for the spacer.
Also, this is the only Craftsman motor I have and this drill press will be for sale shortly. I would need a motor to be able build this all again. At that point shipping costs would add $60 to $80+
Kevin
Zeus36
Well-known member
Pulled the factory Norma ball bearings out of my Craftsman 100 drill press. I popped out the bearing side shields off one side, sprayed WD-40 over the old grease and used paper towels to get some of the grease out. Then put the bearings in a jar of acetone to soak. Took the bearing outside covered in a shop rag and used compressed air to reverse blow out the bearing without allowing it to spin. Most of the grease hits the rag, the rest is aerosolised. Quick spray of WD as a final rinse, another shot of air, (don't spin the bearing with air) then repack. Used a Starrett drive pin punch the diameter of the inner sidewall height of the shield and small ball pein hammer to straighten out the side shields on a block of aluminum. Press the shield back in place.
Hoorn
Well-known member
Nicely done Zeus, can you share before and after pics with us of that process? Im all about trying to "find a better way"
Zeus36
Well-known member
Sorry Hoorn, did not take pictures of the bearings. I used dental picks to pop the metal sideshields. There is a video on YT showing how to grease sealed bearings. Easy if they have rubber seals...metal ones are a challenge.
Hoorn
Well-known member
Zeus, I understand, often times when I'm doing a project I forget to take pictures. I've seen all those videos on YouTube and then some, and I've tried prying off the metal shield of a sealed New Departure or Hoover bearing and it's not happening without damage. I've used dental picks, and small angle picks and whatever else I thought would work.
That was my point, with these 1930-50s sealed bearings it cannot be done without damaging the shield, especially during removal and to a lesser degree during reassembly. A rubber seal wouldn't be a problem at all, a shielded bearing would be a challenge but a sealed bearing -I've yet to see how it can be done without damage.
That was my point, with these 1930-50s sealed bearings it cannot be done without damaging the shield, especially during removal and to a lesser degree during reassembly. A rubber seal wouldn't be a problem at all, a shielded bearing would be a challenge but a sealed bearing -I've yet to see how it can be done without damage.
ToolEnthusiasts
Member
I have sprayed them with a lubricant before I tried the motor out, but it's still quite noisy.
Thank you for your suggestion. I'll check them out again and try to lubricate them with a focus on doing it properly.
Hello, I was glad to find this forum and thread! I have a 3/4 HP motor, model 115753 (as near as i can make out). I believe it came off of a planer. I cleaned out a few pounds of wood dust and cleaned/lubed the centrifugal switch, but the capacitor is definitely bad. It is a sardine-can style, model 37588.
Unfortunately, I cannot make out the writing on the can, specifically the capacitance. (I can read it was made in Dayton, though!)
I can't find the specs online, and I also don't know the starting torque of the motor, with which I could supposedly calculate the needed capacitance. So I'm a bit stuck.
Searching for the cap online mostly leads me to aerospace and defense contractor sites, BTW. Still no specs, though. Anyone have any ideas or know the specs?
Unfortunately, I cannot make out the writing on the can, specifically the capacitance. (I can read it was made in Dayton, though!)
I can't find the specs online, and I also don't know the starting torque of the motor, with which I could supposedly calculate the needed capacitance. So I'm a bit stuck.
Searching for the cap online mostly leads me to aerospace and defense contractor sites, BTW. Still no specs, though. Anyone have any ideas or know the specs?
JSCrews, perhaps one to the electrical gurus in the general tools thread can help you out. That is where I have gone in the past when I had motor questions. Alternatively, if you can make sense of this web page, perhaps it can help you out.
www.electrical4u.net
Single phase Motor Capacitor Calculation calculator | Electrical4u
Enter the input voltage, motor power in watts, efficiency in percentage, frequency, then press the calculate button, you get the required capacitance value.
www.electrical4u.net
I don’t know if this is the right thread to ask this, but I’m at a loss with this motor. It goes to my Craftsman table saw. I took it apart to replace the bearings, and then some time went by. And I of course didn’t take very many pictures. When I put it back together it just hums. I can’t find any info or diagrams for it either. Does anyone know by chance what I may be doing wrong, or forgetting? Or have a breakdown of this model? I appreciate all the help I can get
Hoorn
Well-known member
@Bogie83 that is a beautiful repulsion induction motor. With R-I motors, you change the rotation by changing the position of the repulsion ring over the copper commutator. It is possible that during reassembly you shifted or placed the ring into an intermediate position where it doesn't start because it is trying to turn in both directions at once.
If you have pictures of it reassembled, one of the end caps will have a window which should have a neutral mark, or a clockwise and counterclockwise rotation mark with a corresponding mark on the ring. Make sure you do not have that lined up in such a manner as to prevent rotation either way.
The brushes and springs look like they're in great condition but the commutator will need addressing. Here is a post of the process to cut the mica down from the commutator to allow better starting and smoother rotation on a Delta repulsion induction motor.
Post in thread '1930-50's DELTA / ROCKWELL picture thread - Post your Delta!' https://www.garagejournal.com/forum...re-thread-post-your-delta.491552/post-9598754
I don't see a vendor number, but there is a good chance that motor was made by Sears vendor No. 315, Diehl Manufacturing Co. Of interest, Diehl was eventually sold to Singer sewing machine and then to Ryobi in 1988 which laid the foundation for Ryobi's American production line.
If you have pictures of it reassembled, one of the end caps will have a window which should have a neutral mark, or a clockwise and counterclockwise rotation mark with a corresponding mark on the ring. Make sure you do not have that lined up in such a manner as to prevent rotation either way.
The brushes and springs look like they're in great condition but the commutator will need addressing. Here is a post of the process to cut the mica down from the commutator to allow better starting and smoother rotation on a Delta repulsion induction motor.
Post in thread '1930-50's DELTA / ROCKWELL picture thread - Post your Delta!' https://www.garagejournal.com/forum...re-thread-post-your-delta.491552/post-9598754
I don't see a vendor number, but there is a good chance that motor was made by Sears vendor No. 315, Diehl Manufacturing Co. Of interest, Diehl was eventually sold to Singer sewing machine and then to Ryobi in 1988 which laid the foundation for Ryobi's American production line.
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