E-tek Restorations: PROJECT THREAD

[e-tek]

If you lived round the corner you would see me on a regular basis. Interesting to note we both joined the forum the same year.

I wish you - and a few others - lived around the corner Simon! But I wonder how much we'd get done, other than chatting and drinking that is! I'm glad we both found the place - and it's been a pleasure getting to know you.

 

[HOTFR8]

I wish you - and a few others - lived around the corner Simon! But I wonder how much we'd get done, other than chatting and drinking that is! I'm glad we both found the place - and it's been a pleasure getting to know you.

Thanks Ed. I think we would get plenty done and still enjoy a cold one.
This forum to me is "The" forum to belong to. I find now I am more of a Shed or Garage person liking more the building of a project than a get out and drive it. Although It is good to see something finished and driven (shown) after it is all done. Still getting into another workshop, shed or garage is great fun for me seeing how some one like yourself works and that often can only be done here.

 

[e-tek]

Time to attack the rusty, dirty details....

The air chisel makes quick work of thick undercoating:

Sometimes it's like an archaeological dig. That's fiberglass matting:

A few of these holes shouldn't be here....

This car was either build on a Friday, or by GM's head panel-fitment ***-hat. The lower flange was pushed back on itself, never being welded to the quarter panel:

...and this is how they left the original gap between floor and inner fender:

After using the air chisel, I used my new needle scaler, which made quick work of any undercoating the chisel didn't get, plus it cleaned the seams really well:

I got these radio-headphones for Christmas - and they're AWESOME!

Once all the undercoating was removed I found a few more rust spots that will need to be addressed before the new panels can be attached. This one went into part of the floor, near the shock mounts:

Found the plug that started this rust hole:

OK, time for some test fits -

BAM! Ready to go....LOL!!

Tomorrow I'll make pieces to repair all those rusted bits, then fit the new panels over top. Thanks for looking!

 

[ADSR]

Better than new!

 

[Responder]

Actually neither! Rust Bullet sent me a bunch of product to review and so far so good, so I'll be using that. It's very similar to POR15 and performed well in short-term testing I've done (see my blog). I also have a side by side long-term test going on - having painted both POR15 and Rust Bullet onto a rusty panel, then strapped it to the bottom of my van. It's currently minus 35C here - and has been for weeks - so it's getting a workout!!

The Eastwood product didn't hold up as well as the POR15, but I do use their Chassis Black it to paint black pieces as it's tough and shin, but not a perfect rust paint.

Hope that answers your question!

Thanks, yes it did. Let us know how the testing goes with the panel!

 

[ambenz]

Thanks for keeping the posts coming and "CONGRAT's" on 10K.
This is a favorite thread, though I may not post much, I catch it often!
A reality show should pick up your posts and pay you for documenting your builds...I bet it would be a hit!
Thanks for the... "Free Ride!"

 

[HOTFR8]

You have to like those reproduction panels. Working with them is so much easier.

 

[e-tek]

An entire day spent making patches, working on edges and finding more rust....

Snip snip...

Bend...

The trunk-quarter fillers where both bent to **** for some reason...

Better now -

Drilled spot weld holes -

Yikes more rust...

Looks like nothing got done....but were THAT MUCH closer to attachment!

 

[Zeke]

Leave it like that. Good shelf for your tools.

 

[e-tek]

Leave it like that. Good shelf for your tools.

Not sure it would be road legal....unless I posted WATCH FOR FLYING HAMMERS!!

 

[e-tek]

Patches....patches....

Inner floor flange:

Wheelhouse:

RustBullet, a product similar in nature to POR15, sent me a bunch of their product to test and I've been very happy with the results of testing I've done, so I'm confident it will protect the inners of this Camaro for years to come:

 

[Kevin54]

Ed.....what am I looking at in this picture? Is the bottom piece welded and missed the top piece? It looks like a gap between the weld and the original panel.

Do you use an auto darkening helmet? I have one and really like it, but I have strayed off the weld path a few times. I thought I was good until I could see what I was doing

 

[MP&C]

Kevin, I think he has two layers there he's working on. Cutting the outer back a bit more would give better access to see/ prep the area/ dress the welds afterward on the inner layer.

On the helmet, sometimes when the lens get dirty or in poor lighting conditions it does become hard to see....unless Ed has one of the old school flip downs, which is another challenge.. Regardless, if you find it hard to see where the joint is between the two panels, I have found you can touch the panel with the end of the mig wire protruding, drag it to the side until you feel the joint between the panels, then use your other hand to support/lift the torch up off the panel slightly. Then a quick zap, and the weld is on the joint, no more straying to the side.

 

[Kevin54]

I've tried the regular helmets and I had a real bad time staying on the path, but then again, I can't weld. I do have a hand held shield that came with the welder and I use it to weld spots. I can line everything up then put the shield in front of my face and pull the trigger.

I do need to get some metal to practice on because I have two patch panels on my POS rusty Ram to fix before long. So I will be asking a lot of questions. The last thing I want to do is screw up the bedsides and have to use a quart of mud on each just to bring them back in shape.

So be prepared people....I will be bombarding you guys with questions. And I will have a thread documenting the process also.

 

[e-tek]

It's as Robert described - an inner and outer panel. I don't like to cut out any more origianl metal than is absolutely necessary - and in reality there was plenty of room not only to see, but to work on the two panels separately. I was able to get the welder and grinders in there - no problem:

Here's the inner panel (trunk/shock tower edge) about 80% finished:

As for helmets - auto-darkening is definitely the way to go. You do have to play with the settings, based on surrounding light perfusion, which you sometimes forget! For example, if you're welding on a top panel vs. under a fender, or if you have a strong light (eg halogen) nearby - these factors will all affect how much and how fast the darkening occurs. Better helmets have better controls, so watch for that when you buy one!

 

[Kevin54]

It's as Robert described - an inner and outer panel. I don't like to cut out any more origianl metal than is absolutely necessary - and in reality there was plenty of room not only to see, but to work on the two panels separately. I was able to get the welder and grinders in there - no problem:

Here's the inner panel (trunk/shock tower edge) about 80% finished:

As for helmets - auto-darkening is definitely the way to go. You do have to play with the settings, based on surrounding light perfusion, which you sometimes forget! For example, if you're welding on a top panel vs. under a fender, or if you have a strong light (eg halogen) nearby - these factors will all affect how much and how fast the darkening occurs. Better helmets have better controls, so watch for that when you buy one!

I see what it is now. The picture was throwing me off. I thought there was no way that you could miss a gap like that, but I see where the wheelhousing has the rectangle cut out of it, showing what is in behind.

I'll be alright :tard:

 

[e-tek]

Still working on the last couple areas required before being able to fit the quarter panel, including this area around the roof and rear glass opening. "PIN" marks the spot that a molding clip anchor pin goes:

Before welding the piece in, I'll reach in as far as possible with a brush to apply RustBullet paint, then I'll use the long, flexible sprayer nozzle (from Eastwood) to get rust-proofing as far as possible into the roof space:

But first, I'll make the piece that goes here beginning with the Shrinker-Stretcher machine. Here I'm using the shrinker side to pull the metal together, causing it to arc:

Tools of the trade...Although there's an equal number of pneumatic and electric tools in the photo, I've found myself using more electric tools - especially grinders - which are generally stronger, more convenient and less finicky than pneumatic tools.

The inner fender is now welded SOLID, awaiting final rust-proofing and sealer before I finalize the fitment of the quarter panel over top:

 

[Kevin54]

That looks like my mess when I do something. Half the toolbox drug out and scattered around.

 

[e-tek]

That looks like my mess when I do something. Half the toolbox drug out and scattered around.

Nothing like Roberts benches though!!!

 

[MP&C]

A clean work area is the sign of a sick mind.....

 

[mdkingsley]

Finally had the time this morning to sit down and catch up about 20 pages. All the projects are looking great. And thanks for the patience to document what you do, I think about it after I am done.

 

[e-tek]

Finally had the time this morning to sit down and catch up about 20 pages. All the projects are looking great. And thanks for the patience to document what you do, I think about it after I am done.

Glad to have you along! I use these posts as a record of the work I do in the shop, to show the owners what has been done to their cars, to entertain fellow GJ's ...and....because TV *****!

Today I applied a coat of RustBullet over any seams and welds from yesterday, as well as a second coat to the undersides of everything that will be hidden by the quarter panel installation. Just prior to installation I'll run black Pro-foam seam sealer anywhere required as well.

 

[e-tek]

Quarter panel on.....and only 5 hours of fitting, drilling and welding!

When I had to crawl into the trunk I thought it would never end....

But slowly, painfully, I got 'er sorted out

 

[1971gsfan]

lookin good

 

[Beefbuzz]

Nice work as always, really digging your mondo power strip as well!

 

[Motown 454]

Nice progress.

 

[MP&C]

Ed, in all the tests you've conducted with the POR, Rustbullet, etc paints, have you done anything to test how impervious they are to heat from welding? I had some POR that was in the vicinity of welding on cowl panels, and it put off fumes so noxious I had to open all the shop doors and let it clear. It also contaminated the weld where it would balloon up to a porous weld, similar as it does in rust contamination.

My experience with the POR is one of the reasons I use the epoxy between panels as it tended to be resistant to the effects of heat. It would be interesting to see how the POR types stacked up against each other in heat resistance during welding. How did the Rust Bullet do when you welded on the quarter to the trunk surround?

Camaro panels look like they are fitting up pretty well. Did the Cougar ever find a painter/ get finished assembly or did I miss that? You've got so much going through it's hard to keep track!

 

[e-tek]

Thanks guys - lots of work re-skinning a car for sure! As for the plug-stick, I had considered putting a box on my welding cart (a la Roberts), but the cords are generally so short I want to be able to plug them in right next to my work area - so that seemed like a good alternative.

Robert - good questions on the rust paints and welding. As you are likely aware, POR and RB are "Single Stage Humidity-Cured Epoxy" coatings, making them extremely easy to apply (no mixing) and - of course - they are formulated and tested to be superior to automotive primers in how they de-humidify, convert and encapsulate rust.

I've spent a LOT of time and effort to find and use the correct, best-made and highest quality coatings in the correct applications and 'basic' epoxy primers just can't compare as a rust inhibitive coating like POR15 or RustBullet, so I'm just not comfortable spraying an epoxy primer over rust, or in areas prone to rust - and then hoping for the best. Now, "some" epoxy primers are rust-specific (Sher-Wills Epolon II Rust Inhibitive Epoxy Primer), but usually they are not.

As for welding around these coatings, we all know welding has to be done on clean metal and any contaminants, from rust to e-coatings, to epoxy primers and paints have to be removed from the welding surface, but of course anytime you weld you'll burn any primers or paints nearby as well, and yes - the rust paints do put off quite a bit of noxious smoke! Usually whatever precautions I've taken to avoid the welding fumes also suffices for the burnt primer or paints nearby. I generally wear a welding mask when welding more than a few spots and also have an exhaust fan running to remove the welding fumes and smoke from the shop.

After the welding has cooled I just brush on a second application of the rust paint. With POR15 you can just touch up the spots that were welded/burned through, but RustBullet requires a second complete coat, so I did that after I finished the welding in the area.

As for the Cougar - it's back in bodyshop purgatory....I feel bad for the owner, as I suggested the shop, but he says he's not in a rush and at least we know this particular shop will give him a show-quality paint job when they finally get it done. However, it's just another reminder why I do what I do, why there is always work for people like us and why I've found other places to get paint work done since...

 

[e-tek]

Look what came in the mail today....

Won't help for the drivetrain, HVAC, wiper system, etc., but at least I know I'll be getting it right when it comes to body re-assembly....

Worked on welding the quarter to inner fender today. Always more work than you'd think....

"Overhead":

Sidetracked! I went to move the 40 Ford back and something 'popped' when I put it into neutral....

When I pulled it out, here's what I found....

Not too suprising it broke, but I'm glad I found it now -

Cleaned for welding -

Welded and ground:

Re-installed:

Now if we only had wheels.....

 

[ambenz]

Makes ya wonder what else was jury rigged before you got it?????

 

[IGO2XS]

I like the assembly manual!! Wow the Camaro project is coming along great!! You are one talented guy!

 

[e-tek]

Makes ya wonder what else was jury rigged before you got it?????

Hopefully it was just temporarily 'tacked' some time before it got to me, but never removed and final-welded... Oh well, done now

Thanks IGO2XS - high praise indeed!

 

[e-tek]

Finalizing some welding on this side:

Sealed it all again with more RustBullet:

All done with that side for now....At least until I can get it on the lift, at which time I'll be able to get to the undersides. I'll get the major metalwork done on the left side before going back over it all and tweaking what needs to be tweaked. The quarter to roof seams will get All-Metal filler and the welds will get a skiff of Evercoat prior to spraying high-build primer for blocking.

YIKES!

Remember how they did the quarters last time:

And how they are done now!

 

[MP&C]

Looking at the damage there, do they make a roof skin for it? Undoubtedly you'll have more hiding, ready to come through... Time for an ice pick test...

 

[1949 caddyman]

Do you put the metal filler on top of the rust bullet?

 

[morehead]

This thread is awesome!! SO much information,Thank You for the time you take to inform everybody!! I have recently started working on my project-66 Belair . The rear window has the same issue as the Camaro only much worse. No replacement panels are available (Impala only) , what gauge metal do you use for this type of repair? Will you use All Metal filler over the RB or Por15 on the welds on the edge of the window frame ?

Keep up the great work!
Thanks,
John

 

[Motown 454]

Nice work. Nice to see people who care enough to do it right.

 

[e-tek]

Looking at the damage there, do they make a roof skin for it? Undoubtedly you'll have more hiding, ready to come through... Time for an ice pick test...

I was just considering a roof skin today Robert - lots more rust up front unfortunately.....

 

[e-tek]

This thread is awesome!! SO much information,Thank You for the time you take to inform everybody!! I have recently started working on my project-66 Belair . The rear window has the same issue as the Camaro only much worse. No replacement panels are available (Impala only) , what gauge metal do you use for this type of repair? Will you use All Metal filler over the RB or Por15 on the welds on the edge of the window frame ?

Keep up the great work!
Thanks,
John

Thanks, I try! I use 18 gauge for most stuff. I buy 2 x 4 sheets when necessary, but I also use parts of panels I've saved from other restorations for little pieces. I generally only use All-Metal on the roof to quarter seam and Evercoat elsewhere to smooth welds/grinding spots.

 

[Kevin54]

Ed......does the moulding fit correctly in this area? It looks like the patch is too far into the roof area or there is a bulge where the two vertical seams came together. Or do you still have to dress this area off with some All-Metal or Rage?