let's see your craftsman block grinders

[torqueman2002]

BTW - I don't have too many tools; I need a bigger garage/shop!

Somebody please tell my family.

 

[drivesitfar]

Nines: gotta love the "free" section on Craigslist some days. i have the same problem having to sell a few things i like so i can buy some more things i like better. i'm sure you'll find another one and maybe find a permanent home for it in your shop if you want one.

TM: what can we say, but thanks for the awesome posts. I totally agree with the fact that most of us have shops that are too small for our meager amount of tools and projects we own.

I've been spending some time over on the "dark" side of the journal where guys are building their dream garages. i call it the dark side because no matter how much money you have it isn't enough over there to buy everything you see on those posts. i did see where a few guys are building pole buildings that are about 24 x 24 for less than $20,000 and having all the work done by the pros so trying to convince my bride to move where i can build one (or two).

ALL: since i was posting anyway i thought i'd post this huge 12 inch Baldor i mentioned a few posts ago. is that too much machine for one of those belt sander attachments?

 

[exmaxima1]

ALL: since i was posting anyway i thought i'd post this huge 12 inch Baldor i mentioned a few posts ago. is that too much machine for one of those belt sander attachments?

You would have a few issues with mounting the drive wheel as well as the backing plate. But the rpm is also too low----you need twice that speed.

I realize that many VFD's can double the frequency and therefore the motor rpm, but I would be afraid the huge rotor might not like that so much, let alone any other wheel you had on the other side. I would keep looking for a donor grinder for the Multi-Tool adapter.

But if you are handy with fabricating parts, you might try making your own belt grinder adapter for that giant Baldor. I did a similar retrofit to a 10-inch Dayton that my buddy gave me. I bought a 10-inch drive wheel from Grizzley and fabbed the rest. Works great and has all the power I ever need.

 

[drivesitfar]

Ex: thanks and i thought that big Baldor might be a bit much. i think i have a 1/2 HP Baldor sitting on a shelf i might have to spiff up and put that belt sander you use on it because i can't seem to find a good 3/4 or 1 HP block in my area. i do have a 1/2 HP commercial block that could work, but i think i'm going to put wire wheels on it.

 

[exmaxima1]

Ex: thanks and i thought that big Baldor might be a bit much. i think i have a 1/2 HP Baldor sitting on a shelf i might have to spiff up and put that belt sander you use on it

What is the amperage of your Baldor grinder? Mine is about 4.2 amps if I recall----I think many 1/2 hp Blocks are more than that, and actually within spittin' distance of typical 3/4 hp grinders. I'd use the highest amperage grinder you have for the belt grinder attachment.

 

[drivesitfar]

here's my 3/4 buffer and my 1/2 6 inch baldor grinders. i'm guessing the buffer might be the best option? i do have a commercial 1/2 HP block too. now i can wire up the commercial block to 220 if that might help, but not sure if it will and i don't think anybody we know has tried that yet. or has anybody?

 

[exmaxima1]

here's my 3/4 buffer and my 1/2 6 inch baldor grinders. i'm guessing the buffer might be the best option? i do have a commercial 1/2 HP block too. now i can wire up the commercial block to 220 if that might help, but not sure if it will and i don't think anybody we know has tried that yet. or has anybody?

Wiring a motor for 220 does nothing to increase power at the motor, but it is useful if you have a large draw machine (like a table saw) and the outlet is far from the fuse panel. Basically it reduces the wire losses, which are insignificant on a 5 amp grinder.

Your Baldor grinder is newer than mine and I would use it instead of a Block for the belt grinder. The Baldor has a much beefier case and stiffer end bells to support the belt grinder. The Baldor is truly an industrial design built to run all day long, whereas the Block really is "rated" for industrial use. The added mass of the Baldor will equate to smoother running as well.

You might be able to use the buffer, but you would need to check if the backing plate and drive wheel will fit. My drive wheel had a 2-pc tapered locking collar (like Browning pulleys), and would only fit a 5/8 shaft. The newer versions may mount like grinding wheels, but I'm not sure. And you have to see if you have threaded holes in your end bells on you buffer to mount the backing plate---I thought buffers never had guards so there may not be holes.

 

[Outlawmws]

An oven in the shop! Hmmmmm ....

Heat parts for painting, powder coating, heating interference parts-ring gears on a 1966 MGB flywheel, ... chicken pot pies, potatoes!

Brilliant!

I hope the cooking food in a paint curing oven was a joke: when the paint cures it out-gasses, when it out-gasses it condenses inside the oven. when you heat again it could out-gas and contaminate the food...

 

[Leadberry]

I posted this question in another thread, but thought I'd be more likely to get an answer here. How do you guys pull the bearings? I'm trying to replace a 50-year-old set, and they do not want to come off.

 

[JCMTools]

I posted this question in another thread, but thought I'd be more likely to get an answer here. How do you guys pull the bearings? I'm trying to replace a 50-year-old set, and they do not want to come off.

If you're not trying to re-use the bearings, it's a lot easier. I just put a couple of layers of tape on the face of the jaws of my vise, opened the jaws to just a bit wider than the shaft, screwed on the nut to the end of the shaft and hit the end with an old wooden croquet mallet. The nut made sure that even if I didn't catch the rotor, it wouldn't fall to the floor.

Not very sophisticated, but effective. I'm sure that the pros on this board have smoother solutions.

 

[exmaxima1]

If you're not trying to re-use the bearings, it's a lot easier. I just put a couple of layers of tape on the face of the jaws of my vise, opened the jaws to just a bit wider than the shaft, screwed on the nut to the end of the shaft and hit the end with an old wooden croquet mallet. The nut made sure that even if I didn't catch the rotor, it wouldn't fall to the floor.

Not very sophisticated, but effective. I'm sure that the pros on this board have smoother solutions.

Nope, that's pretty much the classic procedure....

 

[torqueman2002]

I posted this question in another thread, but thought I'd be more likely to get an answer here. How do you guys pull the bearings? I'm trying to replace a 50-year-old set, and they do not want to come off.

What model Block grinder?

I ask because there are different methods.

Some have C-clips that may need to be removed prior to removing the bearings.
http://tinyurl.com/Go-Blue-Block-Grinder

Some have RH motor cover with start-capacitor start-up switch that needs to be removed prior to removing bearing from shaft.
http://tinyurl.com/CM-GJ-Lil-Brownie-115-7566

For the bearings that stay on the shaft, I have removed them with a small bearing splitter and puller.
http://tinyurl.com/Go-Blue-Block-Grinder

Protect the threads and shaft. Soak with your choice of penetrating oil (I use Kroil), let it sit. Be sure any rust or debris on the shaft that would hinder bearing removal is removed.

Be gentle and patient, the cast iron and aluminum housings can be fragile.

I don't know anyone selling parts, if something is damaged, you'll have a hard time repairing/replacing major parts.

Good luck and post up pictures of how you are doing.

We like pictures!

 

[McBrownie]

Instead of watching the Browns struggle against another mediocre team today, I had a little inspiration. I was thinking about getting a stand for my "new" grinder. Everything decent was $100+. I also wasn't thrilled with putting something else in my already crowded space. Outlaw has always given good advice to use a Workmate for a grinder stand and to hold a lot of other things. I liked that idea because it makes more use of something I already have. However, I don't like the height of Workmate unless I am cutting wood. It's a little too short for me.

So, onto the inspiration. My thought was to make use of the Workmate, but raise it up to a level like my workbench. I also wanted to make the Workmate easier to move around the shop. So I built a "dolly" with locking casters. The Workmate just sits in the dolly with the legs folded up. If I want to, I can take the Workmate out, unfold the legs, and I have a regular old Workmate. The rest of the time, I have a portable work surface that is the same height as my work bench. The funny part is that I have more $$ in plywood, casters, and screws than I do in the Workmate and Block Grinder combined. I haven't painted it yet, but I'm pretty happy with how it came out.

View media item 44472

 

[torqueman2002]

I hope the cooking food in a paint curing oven was a joke: when the paint cures it out-gasses, when it out-gasses it condenses inside the oven. when you heat again it could out-gas and contaminate the food...

Good point. Some may not know that's my weird sense of humor.

 

[torqueman2002]

View media item 44472

 

[torqueman2002]

ALL: since i was posting anyway i thought i'd post this huge 12 inch Baldor i mentioned a few posts ago. is that too much machine for one of those belt sander attachments?

Since you posted a huge Baldor, I thought this might interest someone.

Skil Grinder - $195 (Fraser, Mi.)

1 HP
Volt 220, 3 phase
R.P.M. 1426/1725
http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/tld/4725033865.html

 

[Leadberry]

If you're not trying to re-use the bearings, it's a lot easier. I just put a couple of layers of tape on the face of the jaws of my vise, opened the jaws to just a bit wider than the shaft, screwed on the nut to the end of the shaft and hit the end with an old wooden croquet mallet. The nut made sure that even if I didn't catch the rotor, it wouldn't fall to the floor.

Not very sophisticated, but effective. I'm sure that the pros on this board have smoother solutions.

I'll give this a shot. Thanks.

What model Block grinder?

I ask because there are different methods.

Some have C-clips that may need to be removed prior to removing the bearings.
http://tinyurl.com/Go-Blue-Block-Grinder

Some have RH motor cover with start-capacitor start-up switch that needs to be removed prior to removing bearing from shaft.
http://tinyurl.com/CM-GJ-Lil-Brownie-115-7566

For the bearings that stay on the shaft, I have removed them with a small bearing splitter and puller.
http://tinyurl.com/Go-Blue-Block-Grinder

Protect the threads and shaft. Soak with your choice of penetrating oil (I use Kroil), let it sit. Be sure any rust or debris on the shaft that would hinder bearing removal is removed.

Be gentle and patient, the cast iron and aluminum housings can be fragile.

I don't know anyone selling parts, if something is damaged, you'll have a hard time repairing/replacing major parts.

Good luck and post up pictures of how you are doing.

We like pictures!

Thanks for the advice. The grinder is a 1/2 HP "Industrial Rated", ca. 1964. Model no. 397.19590. It has the bearings that stay on the shaft. I spent a few hours yesterday removing fifty years of grease, disassembling and inspecting. This is the current state of things:

Edit: You can see some slight damage to the RH threads on the stator shaft. It's been years since I've worked with bench grinders, and silly ol' me forgot one side had LH threads. That's what happened when I put vise grips over the threads, even with tripled-up rags underneath. Oops.

 

[McBrownie]

ALL: since i was posting anyway i thought i'd post this huge 12 inch Baldor i mentioned a few posts ago. is that too much machine for one of those belt sander attachments?

Drives,

I would think that you could get a good variable speed 2x72" for the price of that Baldor. Take a look at places like Blade Forum to see what those guys use.

 

[Leadberry]

While taking a break from my first block grinder, I decided to check out my second new-to-me a grinder, a 1974 vintage 397.1949. Well, I guess it didn't like the cold Ohio weather, as when I fired it up (the second or third time since I purchased it) the plastic switch failed. I got it out of the grinder, and this is what I find:

I'm debating whether I want to spend the money to replace the switch or just try to make the original one serviceable with plastic epoxy.

I did find a switch that would fit the factory opening. NKK WR11AF. Should just pop right in, although a single-female to double-male spade adapter would be required as this switch only has two terminals.

http://www.zoro.com/i/G1925612/

 

[exmaxima1]

Are those jaw covers homemade, or store bought? If you bought them, please advise where---I want some of those.

 

[torqueman2002]

I'll give this a shot. Thanks.

Thanks for the advice. The grinder is a 1/2 HP "Industrial Rated", ca. 1964. Model no. 397.19590. It has the bearings that stay on the shaft. I spent a few hours yesterday removing fifty years of grease, disassembling and inspecting.

Edit: You can see some slight damage to the RH threads on the stator shaft. It's been years since I've worked with bench grinders, and silly ol' me forgot one side had LH threads. That's what happened when I put vise grips over the threads, even with tripled-up rags underneath. Oops.

Here's a thread that might help, it shows the removal of bearings from the rotor shaft of a 1/3 HP m-397.19410.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3905048&postcount=13

I've repaired threads with a small fine triangle file. Hope it works for you.

Nice grinder.

 

[torqueman2002]

While taking a break from my first block grinder, I decided to check out my second new-to-me a grinder, a 1974 vintage 397.1949. Well, I guess it didn't like the cold Ohio weather, as when I fired it up (the second or third time since I purchased it) the plastic switch failed. I got it out of the grinder, and this is what I find:

I'm debating whether I want to spend the money to replace the switch or just try to make the original one serviceable with plastic epoxy.

I did find a switch that would fit the factory opening. NKK WR11AF. Should just pop right in, although a single-female to double-male spade adapter would be required as this switch only has two terminals.

http://www.zoro.com/i/G1925612/

Thanks for finding a replacement.

I can see in your pics the green current eating goo, which will clean up.

I don't see, however; what needs to be epoxied. Did the button separate from the toggle?

 

[Outlawmws]

SNIP
I'm debating whether I want to spend the money to replace the switch or just try to make the original one serviceable with plastic epoxy.

http://www.zoro.com/i/G1925612/

i'd give the repair a shot. It costs nothing but time. I've had pretty good success repairing old electronics components, including several switches. If nothing else, it's good leaning experience, even if it fails.

 

[drivesitfar]

Leadberry: i'm pretty sure you can just buy the switch or if you want to do a quick fix i'm guessing epoxy will work if the wire is still making a connection.

I also love your aluminum jaw covers and did they come with your vise or where did you buy them?

McB: nice job with the workmate. I really liked the grinder stand you made that fit under the bench you made, but of course you only have so much bench so i'm guessing not enough room to do that on the other side.

by the way i wasn't planning on buying that $1,000 Baldor grinder i posted and just liked the way it looks. i have been looking for a BurrKing for maybe 6 years now and haven't seen one used one for sale in 4 states around me. i had a friend ask me to find him one so he could forge and make some nice knives in his garage about 7 years ago and i swear i found him a nice 3 wheel Burr King in about 2 weeks for $1,000 so he's a happy camper while i'm still looking. i do like the idea of buying that attachment and hooking it up to my block or baldor buffer, but would like to see you or somebody else do it first.

Outlaw: thanks for the heads up on using the oven for cooking which wasn't in my plans, but we wouldn't want it not said and have somebody see our thread and TM's funny post and getting sick or worse.

Just curious if it matters if its a gas or electric oven?

 

[Outlawmws]

Outlaw: thanks for the heads up on using the oven for cooking which wasn't in my plans, but we wouldn't want it not said and have somebody see our thread and TM's funny post and getting sick or worse.

Just curious if it matters if its a gas or electric oven?

ELECTRIC ONLY!

Common sense: the paint is flammable; the gas oven has an open flame, so not a good mix.

even with the electric, if curing paint, I'd do VERY low heat, and the door open so even if it did flash, minimal issue. Personally I like heat lamps for curing vs the oven, but the oven is great for heating parts that need it, preheating before brazing, or even pre-paint heating so the metal is bone dry.

 

[McBrownie]

McB: nice job with the workmate. I really liked the grinder stand you made that fit under the bench you made, but of course you only have so much bench so i'm guessing not enough room to do that on the other side.

That "under bench" mount only works with my little 1/4hp Doerr grinder. I can't fit a big old block grinder under there. Plus, I want to get my grinders away from my bench. They just make too much of a mess. With my Workmate Dolly, I can wheel them out to driveway for messy stuff. I'm sure my neighbors will love that.

 

[drivesitfar]

McB: your workmate on wheels will be a lot easier to roll outside than mine on their stands without wheels. the dust is a good fertilizer and set up a big appliance box to catch the debris on those real windy days. again nice work and is that the new block you are putting on the workmate? nice!!!

PS i actually bought a big crate on a pallet to move outside on windy days to paint inside of so i don't have to use 3 cans of paint for a 1 can job. sort of got the idea from Outlaw when he mentioned he used a big appliance box for his paint booth when he was growing up.

Outlaw: thanks for sharing your wisdom again and i like the heat lamp idea. any side effects from using the family's oven to dry out a part or heat it up before painting?

Leadberry: 2nd request to find out where you bought your vise's jaw covers. or did you make them? they are awesome. also good luck on your block restorations.

 

[Leadberry]

Are those jaw covers homemade, or store bought? If you bought them, please advise where---I want some of those.

Leadberry: i'm pretty sure you can just buy the switch or if you want to do a quick fix i'm guessing epoxy will work if the wire is still making a connection.

I also love your aluminum jaw covers and did they come with your vise or where did you buy them?

Leadberry: 2nd request to find out where you bought your vise's jaw covers. or did you make them? they are awesome. also good luck on your block restorations.

The jaw covers are made by Yost. I scored them NOS on ebay for $20, but you can buy them new here:

http://www.mile-x.com/protective-jaw-caps/?sort=featured&page=2

They're made in the USA and available in all the major jaw sizes. They come from the factory with the tangs flat...you bend them to fit your vise.

Here's a thread that might help, it shows the removal of bearings from the rotor shaft of a 1/3 HP m-397.19410.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3905048&postcount=13

I've repaired threads with a small fine triangle file. Hope it works for you.

Nice grinder.

Thanks for the link. I may have to give the file thing a try, or maybe clean them up with a die?

Thanks for finding a replacement.

I can see in your pics the green current eating goo, which will clean up.

I don't see, however; what needs to be epoxied. Did the button separate from the toggle?

If you look closely at the toggle, you can see that the stem that actuates the metal contact has snapped. It's still barely connected on one side, but the switch no longer works as the stem just flops around.

i'd give the repair a shot. It costs nothing but time. I've had pretty good success repairing old electronics components, including several switches. If nothing else, it's good leaning experience, even if it fails.

Yeah, I'll have to give the repair a shot, if for no other reason than to try to keep the grinder all-American if I can. The NKK switch is Japanese and should be high quality, but the original has Valparaiso, Indiana stamped into it.

 

[Outlawmws]

McBSNIP.

Outlaw:SNIP i like the heat lamp idea. any side effects from using the family's oven to dry out a part or heat it up before painting?

SNIP

I've done that before; if it doesn't have grease/oil on it, or solvent residue, there shouldn't be an issue in the family oven. (other than possibly marital bliss...)

 

[torqueman2002]

... Thanks for the link. I may have to give the file thing a try, or maybe clean them up with a die? ....

You are welcome.

If getting the die started correctly is not possible, a Split Die Thread Chaser can help.

At the risk of stating what you probably already know, it is placed on the shaft past the point of the damaged threads and then 'backed-off' to clean up the messed up portion.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Split%20Die%20Thread%20Chaser

Also, the below thread has good suggestions to taper the 'mushroomed' end of an axle, where there is no load; which might help in your case also.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4352786#post4352786

 

[Squashfest81]

Spoke with the gentleman selling last week, but we could not coordinate til today. Of course we on the journal mention its existence over the weekend causing craigslist scheduling anxiety (thanks JCM).
Super clean, extra wheels, and even the manual. Great older guy who purchased it new in the 80's, but is slowing down in the woodworking hobby.

 

[-Brent-]

Very clean unit!

 

[JCMTools]

Spoke with the gentleman selling last week, but we could not coordinate til today. Of course we on the journal mention its existence over the weekend causing craigslist scheduling anxiety (thanks JCM).
Super clean, extra wheels, and even the manual. Great older guy who purchased it new in the 80's, but is slowing down in the woodworking hobby.

Did I almost mess up your mojo? If so, sorry!

Congrats on the new grinder. It looks like a nice machine.

 

[McBrownie]

Spoke with the gentleman selling last week, but we could not coordinate til today. Of course we on the journal mention its existence over the weekend causing craigslist scheduling anxiety (thanks JCM).
Super clean, extra wheels, and even the manual. Great older guy who purchased it new in the 80's, but is slowing down in the woodworking hobby.

Very nice find! I have a 257.191401 1/2hp. No date stamp, but the wheel covers have a casting date stamp of 11/83. So, I assume it is a 1984 grinder. Pull off a wheel and see if you can find something like this:

View media item 40371

 

[Squashfest81]

McBrownie, I'll open her up later and share what I find.
JCM, no worries as the mojo is intact. We SHOULD post up for each other, except when I want it. There is still that older 1/2 horse in southern RI that someone needs to save.

 

[JCMTools]

Update #2 on the "No Idea What I'm Doing Restore" AKA 3/4HP Block Buffer Build

Before:

Here's what I've done so far:

• Took the 8" commercial grinder apart.
• Replaced the bearings - the spin-down time did not improve, taking less than a minute before and after. A couple of causes come to mind. Originally I had an 8" wheel on on one side and for the second test I only had a 7". The 7" wheel wasn't dressed. The new bearings are non-contact sealed but they have more resistance than the old ones and I re-used the felt washers. I don't think that wind-down time is that important since I know that the bearings are good, and I wonder if the time will get better once the bearings are worn in a bit.
• Got the crisped starter winding checked out. It looks good, but not sure if it will be long-lived.
• Sprayed stator with seal coat (Thanks Davefr!)
• Soaked the quench tray base in lye to get rid of the gunk build-up (still in progress).
• Stripped the grinder parts.
• Painted the castings with light blue hammered. (Thanks Teter!)

I learned a lot about painting with spray cans in general and hammered in particular. I rigged up a spray booth out of a cardboard box, put each casting on a separate piece of plywood and put the plywood on a lazy susan in the booth. This way I could spin and paint and then quickly put in another piece.

I used light light coats and got a beautiful finish, but it was non-hammered. So I read the instructions and tried a medium coat. I got some hammered effect but it wasn't really pronounced and and it was kind of banded - the next pass un-did the hammered effect of the prior pass. While trying to get one last corner, a section of paint suddenly sagged and I got a beautiful hammered pattern, all while fearing that I had caused a drip. So I went in for one last coat (the 7th), determined to get a good "sag." It worked, mostly, but I didn't have the guts to really lay on the paint. It looks good and I'm happy with it as a first attempt. Besides, I don't want to go overboard (ok, way way overboard) since I'm still not sure what is going to happen with the starter winding.

A couple of other things I did that seemed to work well:
I put the castings on the radiator overnight so when the house heated up in the morning, the castings were toasty and ready for paint.
Torque gave me the idea of using a slow cooker to keep the paint warm and I just happened to have one of these lying around.

Perfect for one can and it worked great!

That's all for now. More on the restoration follies as I make progress. Or in my case, 1 step forward, 2 steps back!

 

[McBrownie]

[*]Replaced the bearings - the spin-down time did not improve, taking less than a minute before and after. A couple of causes come to mind. Originally I had an 8" wheel on on one side and for the second test I only had a 7". The 7" wheel wasn't dressed. The new bearings are non-contact sealed but they have more resistance than the old ones and I re-used the felt washers. I don't think that wind-down time is that important since I know that the bearings are good, and I wonder if the time will get better once the bearings are worn in a bit.

JCM,

I have the same grinder and I'm doing a restore, but a little at a time. Here is my experience with bearings on a couple of block grinders.

1) The inertia of the wheels makes a huge difference with spin down times. I had two 8" wheels on this grinder (one was worn down to about 6") and my spin down time was just under 3 minutes. I replaced the worn out wheel with a 8" wire wheel and my spin down time dropped in half. Nothing else was changed on the grinder.

2) Sealed bearings don't seem to spin as long as shielded bearings. Both are suitable for block grinders from what I understand.

3) Spin down time doesn't mean much! What you really want is smooth bearings. My 3/4hp with the 3 minute spin down (pre wire wheel) has a "click" in it that you can hear when it is slowing down. So, I have ordered a new set of shielded bearings. Since those will be packed with new grease, I expect my spin down times to drop some more. A smooth running machine is the goal of a rebuild.

 

[torqueman2002]

Well put JCM, I agree.

Over on OWWM site, there's a group that believe a long spin-down time can also indicate dry or no grease.

 

[torqueman2002]

Spoke with the gentleman selling last week, but we could not coordinate til today. Of course we on the journal mention its existence over the weekend causing craigslist scheduling anxiety (thanks JCM).
Super clean, extra wheels, and even the manual. Great older guy who purchased it new in the 80's, but is slowing down in the woodworking hobby.

Nice grinder!

Glad someone picked it up, I really didn't want to drive from Michigan for it.

 

[nine4gmc]

Well put JCM, I agree.

Over on OWWM site, there's a group that believe a long spin-down time can also indicate dry or no grease.

I'm in that camp. Long spin time = dry bearings. BUT long spin down also means the machine is in good working order, just needs new bearings. imho