Raising the Rat Shack

[Platonic Solid]

It will have a floor with floor joists.

 

[lakeroadster]

It will have a floor with floor joists.

 

[ambenz]

Looking good!
Thanks for sharing this project, I know it gets to be a pain sometime trying to do and document.
TIP: For burrowing critters in our area, we will stuff rags soaked in ammonia into the burrow holes.
They get one wiff and find another area really quick.
My best skunk repellent.
You can usually buy ammonia, by the gallon, in the cleaning aisle.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Thanks all for the encouragement and great rodent extermination advice. As ambenz said, it's not always convenient to stop and take pictures of everything I'm doing. Especially during trial and error steps.

Progress Pics from Monday 10/2/17:

Cleaned up all the leaves and debris around the shed.
Removed any remaining sills on the structure and dug up the rotting wood in the ground. Also removed the lower 45° supports.

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Having a very hard time getting the outward bow from the wall with the man door. Tried using ratchet straps = When tied to the lifting frame the lifting fame moved. When tied to the opposite wall the opposite wall moved. Used 12ft 2x6s wedged on the exterior at an angle which kind-of worked, but the man door now bowed out even farther than before.

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Shoveled another ton of gravel out of the pickup.

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Came up with a theory as to why to wall won’t move. The man door was likely installed after the wall was already deformed. Then later someone nailed it shut. Removing the door seems to have helped.

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[TractorJeff]

If that is rolled roofing, I'd level the building and roof when I set it back down. I don't believe it'll undue your roof repairs?
At 14 and 21 inches, I'd back the hay wagon and move it to a new location
LOL!
Nice job!
Told you to ignore the "nay-sayers" and just do it!
You are doing something that only a small group of us have done!
See that fellow here in Wisconsin wants to raise his garage and a whole bunch poo-pooed him too!

 

[xtremek]

This is one of my favorite threads. Keep up the good work.

 

[jb3]

If that is rolled roofing, I'd level the building and roof when I set it back down. I don't believe it'll undue your roof repairs?
At 14 and 21 inches, I'd back the hay wagon and move it to a new location
LOL!
Nice job!
Told you to ignore the "nay-sayers" and just do it!
You are doing something that only a small group of us have done!
See that fellow here in Wisconsin wants to raise his garage and a whole bunch poo-pooed him too!

I love this thread, i also agree that id make every effort to get the roof square after whats been done, likely it will be fine or require minor adjustment after the fact, but it will be worth it.

It would be a shame to do this work, drop it back down on the new sill and floor, and still have a bowed roof.

Lifts are fascinating, I have plans to do one also!

 

[MikeF2316]

I love this thread, i also agree that id make every effort to get the roof square after whats been done, likely it will be fine or require minor adjustment after the fact, but it will be worth it.

It would be a shame to do this work, drop it back down on the new sill and floor, and still have a bowed roof.

Lifts are fascinating, I have plans to do one also!

While I would put some effort into trying to square and straighten the structure, it may not be possible, it may not have been square and straight to start out with.

 

[Robey5]

Oh my dear.

You're quite ambitious about saving this dude, I appreciate the pics of your journey. This may be a bit forward, but: what's going to be stored inside once you are done sitting it back on the ground?

Regarding the floor and the gravel type foundation: I like it. I've seen it done a few different ways, but once the pitch/level is set and the floor is compacted you can buy some "horse stall floor" from Tractor Supply (for a reasonably cheap price: much cheaper than a concrete slab, and so-forth) for a durable finished look. That said, I believe that you're going to do a joist style floor to finish it out. You can put the horse stall floor on that as well on top of the ply...

 

[Platonic Solid]

The bowed roof gives it "character" (hence the rat shack name). Goal is to keep the tax man thinking this is a POS shed that's not worth anything (which is still a realistic possibility). Plus, I put a lot of tar on that roll roofing (in other words - I followed the instructions). I learned my lesson = regular shingles are easier than roll roofing.

Robey5 - I haven't purchased the plywood for the floor yet. I searched "horse stall floor" on tractor supply and got nothing. What is it? Got a link?

So I'm working on this thing the other day and wouldn't you know it, two flickers (little woodpecker type bird) come out of nowhere - land on the siding and start pecking! I'm being attacked from underground and the air! Mother nature really wants this thing back bad.

 

[LB-1911]

Here you go -
4 ft. x 6 ft. x 3/4 in. Thick Rubber Stall Mat

 

[Platonic Solid]

Thanks LB-1911. I thought it was a plywood alternative. Rubber matting is overkill for this project. This is just an inconveniently located storage shed (on a rental property 20min. from my primary residence).

As for what it's going to be used for: Misc building supplies, auto stuff, plus I have a large paint booth in pieces under my deck that I need to get out of there.

Question to the masses: Will painting the exterior discourage wood peckers?

 

[ambenz]

Place plastic grocery bags around the gutter area so they catch the wind and make a fluttering noise as they fly like a flag, that's how we keep birds from nesting on our downspouts during the mating season. Birds don't like the rustling of the bags.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Progress Pics from 10/3:

To further improve my chances of straightening the wall, I removed the other odd access door under the window which, like the man door, was also nailed shut.

all pics linked to larger image
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Under the man door trim I find a mortise, which I expected as there’s an open mortise in the opposing corner column. Keeping in mind that this structure has very few posts and beams, every one of them is critical to its stability. Someone decided to remove a center beam and install the 2 doors which seriously compromised the structure.

Cut the various 2x4 posts.



Filled the mortise joints with some perfectly sized (1 3/8 x 4) hardwood pallet wood I had lying around.



Installed a new 12’ 4x4 beam where it belongs.

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Attached ratchet straps to persuade the structure into compliance. The other end is hooked onto the 5/8" threaded rods.

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[Platonic Solid]

Progress Pics from 10/3 continued:

I noticed something else - After cleaning all the debris away yesterday I don't see any newly reformed vole holes! It would be nice if that's all it takes to get rid of them. Meanwhile the chipmunks seem to be having a field day under the giant tarp.

On the wall in below pic you can see how badly bowed the center beam is,



yet oddly, the window sill is level.

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Overlooking that I photo bombed my own picture - Even though the overall building is now square, including the window, you can see how the siding to the left of the window is not even. I’ll be chalking that up as another character feature.

​

 

[cash68]

Wow. I would have lit this on fire and started over. Excited to see you saving this thing!

 

[Platonic Solid]

Place plastic grocery bags around the gutter area so they catch the wind and make a fluttering noise as they fly like a flag, that's how we keep birds from nesting on our downspouts during the mating season.

Good idea! The front of the garage actually has a flag holder there. Putting one near the back also might do the trick. Think I'll get actual flags so it doesn't look too awful. Thanks.

 

[AZ Pete]

you will have an ongoing rodent issue. Plan to visit weekly to maintain “bait stations” if you want to be rodent free.


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[ambenz]

....I noticed something else - After cleaning all the debris away yesterday I don't see any newly reformed vole holes! It would be nice if that's all it takes to get rid of them....

Did you stuff the holes with Ammonia soaked rags?

I don't know flags will do the trick...something about the noise the plastic bags make seems to be the only deterrent...good luck with the flags as I know what you mean about the look of plastic bags...not a particular nice thing to see hanging on a out building.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Did you stuff the holes with Ammonia soaked rags?

No, on Monday i cleared out the leaves and removed what little was left of the rotted sill in the ground. The next day there were no visible holes. We'll see if that holds true when I go there on Saturday.

I don't know flags will do the trick...something about the noise the plastic bags make seems to be the only deterrent...good luck with the flags as I know what you mean about the look of plastic bags...not a particular nice thing to see hanging on a out building.

Maybe I can find some cheap plastic flags. I bet those strings of triangular party flags placed along the eves would work, but I think that would drive me nuts while I'm working on it. Plus it's kinda tacky, in a used car lot kinda way.

 

[bandlaw]

Good idea! The front of the garage actually has a flag holder there. Putting one near the back also might do the trick. Think I'll get actual flags so it doesn't look too awful. Thanks.

Actual plastic bags will help convince the tax man that “it’s just a dump garage, nothing to see here...” perhaps?


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[Robey5]

LB-1911: Nice pick off on the rubber mat.

you're right, these rubber mats may be overkill, and it's not intended to be a substitute for ply wood, but IF you wanted to forgo wood - the alternative would be to compact gravel and cover with the mat(s).

Anyhow, I'm in for this journey: you have been putting some serious work in, and love the pictures.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Progress Pics:

The first time I cut the bottom siding, yesterday, I only cut the bad stuff off and each side was a different height. Once I was done I realized I should have cut everything the same height, so I went back today to fix it. Had to screw some 2x4s to the siding to make it flat. Posts have also been trimmed.

all pics linked to larger image










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I've decided to use 4'x8' x 3/4 PVC Sheet (link) on the bottom. Just need to learn best handling practice. At $100 per sheet I don't want to make any mistakes.

 

[cash68]

you will have an ongoing rodent issue. Plan to visit weekly to maintain “bait stations” if you want to be rodent free.


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Please use kill traps. Glue traps are screwed up, and while baiting with poison is very effective, it can kill other predators in the area like cats, foxes, owls, etc. Good stuff, love how much effort you're putting in to saving this thing!

 

[sbosecker]

First: Thanks again for your help with the lighting plan of my building. It is a pleasure to work in a well lit space.

I had to chuckle about the Tax Man worries... When I was in the US Navy and deployed to Sicily in the early '80's, we would occasionally drive around and check out the countryside. Most of the houses in the country looked pretty rough from the outside. The story we heard was that housing was taxed to a large degree on curb appeal (maybe the assessor isn't allowed inside?) and the insides of these rude structures were supposedly quite nice despite the exterior's appearance.

Rodents... in my experience these varmints hang out near a food supply. I grew up on a melon farm; ground hogs were hard on cantaloupes and watermelons and they dug their burrows next to this plentiful buffet. Smaller rodents lived in the barn (cow feed made of corn) and in sheds with corn cribs.

Is there an obvious rodent food source near the Rat Shack?

Thanks for documenting this project in such detail. While I can't see myself ever taking on a project as ambitious as this, it's always useful to see how unusual problems are solved.

Best regards,

Scott

 

[lakeroadster]

Platonic... The Shack is looking good... too good for Rat's.

 

[Platonic Solid]

sbosecker - I'm glad the lighting layout is working for you. I'm essentially renovating an outhouse compared to your massive garage project. As far as rodent food source is concerned, the tenant does have a very small garden every year.

lakeroadster - Thank you.

 

[Strouty]

This thread is reaching new heights.

Looking good.

 

[MikeF2316]

Platonic... The Shack is looking good... too good for Rat's.

That new cut line at the bottom looks too straight!

What's left looks easy. You just need to build a base with a straight and level top plate.

 

[Platonic Solid]

That new cut line at the bottom looks too straight!

What's left looks easy. You just need to build a base with a straight and level top plate.

I actually have to check all the dimensions again. I started out with my laser level which is fine if you're dealing with a normal square structure, but this is far from square. Not that I have any desire to cut everything a third time, but rather than cutting the bottom level, I'm wondering if I should just measure the exterior 4 corner wall heights and make them all equal - connect the dots - snap a line and cut it that way. I had to re-cut the front so the siding immediately to the left and right of the garage doors is equal. This is actually more difficult that I expected - maybe if I made a reasonably level gravel floor I'd have something better to gauge from.

The lifting frame has developed some arch at the ends so the building isn't as square today as it was when I first lifted it. Well... "square" is probably an overstatement. Let's just say it was less crooked in all directions.

 

[Platonic Solid]

I need to build the PT frame that will hold the gravel base in place. Before I start wacking rebar into the ground I need to find the exact location of the underground power line. Is there a magic method/tool to make this easy or is digging the only way?

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[Platonic Solid]

I'll just dig carefully to figure out where the underground power line is. I find it interesting that the typical method of holding a PT frame in place is to pound rebar through it (which is unfinished steel), yet fasteners need to be hot dip galvanized or otherwise ACQ rated.

 

[F451]

I'll just dig carefully to figure out where the underground power line is. I find it interesting that the typical method of holding a PT frame in place is to pound rebar through it (which is unfinished steel), yet fasteners need to be hot dip galvanized or otherwise ACQ rated.

I've often wondered that myself. It's not unusual to see surface rust on the rebar, its rusting away even before its been used. Must not be a big issue but it sure doesn't seem to make sense.

And great work on the shed save!

 

[xtremek]

Most of the rebar I see being used now (freeway and building construction) has that green e-coating on it now

 

[RickP]

I find it interesting that the typical method of holding a PT frame in place is to pound rebar through it (which is unfinished steel), yet fasteners need to be hot dip galvanized or otherwise ACQ rated.

That does sound a little weird, doesn't it?

I use 5/8" rebar on PT frames because the 1/2" bends too easily. Even with it starting to rust at the surface, it will take decades to rust all the way through. I don't think the 'environmentally friendly' PT wood we get today will even last that long before rotting. So I just plan on replacing the wood/steel in 25 years or so. If you wanted it to last longer, I guess you could use a concrete footer with block, but that definitely seems like overkill for the rat shack!

 

[Platonic Solid]

Change of plans! Cause nothing is really set in stone until it's actually set in stone. I purchased a cement mixer this morning. Looked at the HF one, but the reviews were so bad I opted for this $300 one at Lowes:

image linked to Lowes​

Plan now is to use six 12 inch sonitubes at whatever depth I can reasonably dig to. I've watched 1 video and read 1 web page on how to do this, so I must be an expert (NOT)!

I'm not spending $400 for a rebar cutter/bender, so I'll dig the holes first and see what lengths I need and purchase accordingly. No I'm not likely to dig down the 42+ inches to get below the frost line, but we'll see how it goes.

The plan for wood is to install three 12ft 6x6 PT beams the width if the shed onto the cement columns using these:

image linked to HD​

Then put two 12ft 6x6 PT length wise each side, to get the 24ft needed, on top of the aforementioned 6x6 perpendicular beams.

Attach framed floor to first set of 3 beams.

 

[Hotrod1959]

Progress Pics - End of day 5:00pm continued:









So I saw the culprit making holes and nests today. My best guess is it's a vole. Saw him disappear down a hole, so a took the rake and filled in the hole and stomped on it. 3 hrs. later the hole was back. Not sure how to get rid of these things.

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Next step - Cut the bottom off.

Pour ammonia down the hole. It is heavier than air and will asphyxiate the little buggers.

 

[Platonic Solid]

ambenz mentioned putting ammonia soaked rags in the holes. I suppose pouring it directly in the hole achieves the same result. I'll deal with that after I'm done. OT - I used to design blue print machines which use high strength ammonia. I remember hooking up the ammonia pump check valves backwards on a machine which created an amazing ammonia waterfall in the engineering lab.

The sonotubes are out. The holes would have to be huge to get the sonotube past the hanging walls above.

Not sure exactly which way to go. Here are the options as I see it: (I could be missing something.) FWIW, the holes are 15" diameter and 32" deep (still have 2 more holes to dig).

A. Put 4" gravel in hole - then pour 6"-8" concrete footer - place post - finish pour around post. (rebar?)
B. Same as "A" except skip gravel.
C. Don't put post in hole - put rebar in hole - fill hole with concrete - attach galvanized post base bracket.

In my research I learned that you're supposed to vibrate the concrete. That's not going to happen here, as I'm not spending another $300 for a ********.

 

[RickP]

I don't think you need the mixer either -- unless you're planning to use it for your next project.

As long as the earth around your holes is pretty solid, you can use something simple for footers -- like pea gravel or even sand. As long as it can't move out of the hole, it's stronger than concrete for compression loads. My Dad's entire house is built on pea gravel footers.

At the top of the hole, make it roughly square in shape and lay a couple of pressure treated 2x10s down on their side. You could add a 2nd layer of 2x10s perpendicular to the 1st if you want. The 'ground contact' type of pressure treated wood will probably outlast you!

 

[RickP]

Then put two 12ft 6x6 PT length wise each side, to get the 24ft needed, on top of the aforementioned 6x6 perpendicular beams.

Attach framed floor to first set of 3 beams.

Unless you have a few extra 6x6s that you want to use, I think they're overkill for this job. I'd use them on a shed that would be moved someday, or one that was just resting on the ground, but not the rat shack.

For the bottom of the walls, I'd recommend using a couple of PT 2x6s instead, attached to each other with galvanized 12d sinkers. You can use two sets of three 8 footers for each wall, and stagger the joints to span the 24' length of the wall.

For the cross beams, I don't think they're really adding anything structurally, except they will keep the bottom of the walls parallel. You could use something cheap for that, like PT landscape timbers or 2x4s. Or concrete 'grade beams' with rebar in them (if you decide to keep the mixer). But you might not need them at all if you run your floor joists across the width of the shed -- they'll keep the walls parallel a lot better than 3 cross beams.

The floor joists can be tied into the base of the walls on each side with joist hangers. If you do that, you might want to use double 2x8s for the base of the walls.