Between 265 & 485 SQ/FT The Scooter Workshop

[Denwood]

Jess, I was indeed wondering where you had disappeared too. Good to see you back!

On the documentation side, I completely understand why you backed off...I often feel the same way. One of the compelling reasons to post is simply to populate a work journal which is often encouraging to look back on, or otherwise document a project for future reference.

Here's another vote for posting your updates! You are inspiring a lot more folks than you think

One of your thread topics regarding shop automation and cooling certainly had me thinking this winter on building automation and night cooling. We've been precooling 6-10 F every night over about 7000 sq/ft. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=329010
The last hydro bill at the business showed a 30% reduction in "on-peak" use, and an average of around 20% reduction across the board. Given the meteoric increase in electricity costs here, this is a good thing.

 

[Modern Jess]

No links yet, but I do have pics on one of my devices. I'll figure that out and post them.

Coolio.

I just spent the last hour reading through this whole thing. All I can say is AMAZING!

I have no patience or vision to do what you do, or lot of stuff I see on the forum for that matter, but this is just AMAZING!

Seriously impressive stuff. Glad you recovered from the cough.

If you have the patience to read through this thread full of minutia and half-crazed ramblings, I think you probably have more patience than you give yourself credit for.

As for vision, that just takes lots of surfing on GarageJournal for ideas, coupled with sitting in your shop and imagining what you could do with it. Oh, and bourbon. Bourbon helps a lot.

I had a bit of free time (in the office) and I read all your topic..all I can say is: WOW
Man, that is a top notch work here, you made yourself an amazing shop and the documentation of everything is a pleasure to read..thanks a lot for sharing it!

I am gratified and more than a little bit surprised that you and others have found the thread entertaining. Thanks much for the comment.

 

[Modern Jess]

Here's another vote for posting your updates! You are inspiring a lot more folks than you think

Thanks very much, Dennis. And likewise!

One of your thread topics regarding shop automation and cooling certainly had me thinking this winter on building automation and night cooling. We've been precooling 6-10 F every night over about 7000 sq/ft. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=329010
The last hydro bill at the business showed a 30% reduction in "on-peak" use, and an average of around 20% reduction across the board. Given the meteoric increase in electricity costs here, this is a good thing.

Just read that thread -- and of course, really dig it. Natural temperature swings seem like a relatively under-utilized resource. It's really encouraging to see someone like yourself experiment with it and (more importantly) document the results for others to build upon.

 

[Denwood]

I find it surprising really that more folks don't take advantage of the efficiencies that I would consider low hanging fruit

Curious on your thoughts now that you've had an electric car for a few months. ??

 

[Modern Jess]

Curious on your thoughts now that you've had an electric car for a few months. ??

More than a few months. It's been almost a year and a half.

Let's see, where to begin:

- Still love the car. Love driving it to work every day, it is my daily moment of zen. I've probably mentioned this before, but the thing that surprised me the most about driving an electric, and the thing that I enjoy the most about driving an electric, is how quiet it is. Even cars with quiet engines and lots of interior soundproofing are infernal noise machines compared to this car. Quiet wasn't what I was after when I leased it, but it is the thing that I now value the most.

- Tire inflation tends to get low when you never visit a gas station. I eventually have to lug my 10 gallon air compressor out to the driveway to fill up the tires.

- This is a short-commute car, and even though I drive it every work day, I've still got less than 6000 miles on it. There isn't any scheduled maintenance due until 10,000, and that's only an inspection. Not even sure I'm going to hit 10,000 before the lease is up.

- The transition between regenerative braking and actual disc brakes (at around 8mph) is almost imperceptible, unless the brakes are grabby that day, at which point it is sometimes (but not often) abrupt.

- The motor produces plenty of torque. Coupled with the sketchy handling of a small Italian subcompact, you would think it would be scary. You'd be wrong. It's a kick in the pants.

- I'm a little bit sorry I leased it instead of buying it outright. I didn't want to be on the hook for it, trying to sell it later with a potentially depleted battery pack. At the time, nobody really knew what the resale market for electric cars would be, or what the battery replacement scenario would be like. Today, I'm a lot less worried about it than I was a year and a half ago. Hindsight is 20/20.

- You can't really put any adults in the back seat. Well, you can try. But it isn't pretty.

- Charging at home via a regular 120v/15A outlet is perfectly sufficient for my needs. It takes 12 hours to recharge half the battery at that rate, but that's enough. If I had to recharge more often, or regularly went well below 50%, I would probably want the level 2 charger.

- Electric cars aren't for everyone, and don't meet everyone's needs. But they meet far more people's needs than most people probably realize.

- Love, love, love, the car. A lot.

 

[Modern Jess]

I've half a mind today to throw my welders into the nearest river. Getting pretty sick of the hive mentality that is incapable of thinking of or accepting anything other than welding as the solution to all problems.

 

[dhubbard422]

I've half a mind today to throw my welders into the nearest river. Getting pretty sick of the hive mentality that is incapable of thinking of or accepting anything other than welding as the solution to all problems.

Modern Jess, Resistance is futile. You must be assimilated!

Maybe the hive never played with Legos. Or Erector Sets. I'm pretty sure that they've never built anything with Uni-strut... I have no doubt that your latest experiments with Uni-strut will be successful and expeditious! Please post the results someday.

And hold onto those welders! Or at least sell them to one of the assimilated!

I do hope that this attempt at humor is recognized as such...
Don

 

[555]

I'm really enjoying this thread. Thanks for the updates.

 

[Denwood]

Thanks for the car update Jess. I guess my personal time warp syndrome has been revealed

As much as I was not a fan of the Leaf aesthetic when we had it for a weekend, it certainly was an instant hit with the family. The silence and instant torque were my two first surprises. It's great to hear that you are loving the car..electric is factoring high into our next purchase decision.

 

[Modern Jess]

I'm really enjoying this thread. Thanks for the updates.

Thanks, and you're most welcome!

 

[Modern Jess]

Thanks for the car update Jess. I guess my personal time warp syndrome has been revealed

As much as I was not a fan of the Leaf aesthetic when we had it for a weekend, it certainly was an instant hit with the family. The silence and instant torque were my two first surprises. It's great to hear that you are loving the car..electric is factoring high into our next purchase decision.

Aha! How did you end up with it for a weekend? Was it a rental?

Good to hear people outside of electric-car-crazed-California starting to get interested.

 

[NedNorton]

Just wanted to chime in and let you know that your thread was one of the first ones that I read from start to finish. Your attention to detail is inspiring, for sure. In fact, I borrowed your unistrut shelves and adapted them for use in my shop.

Glad your back and looking forward to more updates.

Cheers,
Chris

 

[sakurama]

Thanks for the bench photos, the layout makes great sense and now I've learned about metal pegboard!

Gregor

 

[Bunk]

Want to see more? I've actually posted a whole thread on my workbench project:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=336728

What happened to your workbench build thread!?

 

[Modern Jess]

Just wanted to chime in and let you know that your thread was one of the first ones that I read from start to finish. Your attention to detail is inspiring, for sure. In fact, I borrowed your unistrut shelves and adapted them for use in my shop.

Thanks! You know, I started reading your thread the other day. I haven't gotten very far yet (I think I'm somewhere around the scrap / cutoff cart) but I'm looking forward to seeing what you did with your shelving.

Glad your back and looking forward to more updates.

I'm struggling with that right now. Hopefully more in the near future.

 

[Modern Jess]

Thanks for the bench photos, the layout makes great sense and now I've learned about metal pegboard!

Pegboard is one of those love-it-or-hate-it things, and a lot of people hate it. I suspect that the metal pegboard probably addresses most of those issues, plus lets magnets provide additional flexibility.

Or not. But I like it, and I really like having my commonly used tools right there.

 

[Modern Jess]

What happened to your workbench build thread!?

Yeah, sorry about that. Like other threads where I tried to post something thoughtful, that thread became infested with assholes. I asked Ryan to pull it, and so now it's gone. I will post some pictures of the finished workbench here when it's done, but I think I am now a bit gun-shy about showing the long, twisty path and the design / build / redesign / rebuild process.

 

[Bunk]

Yeah, sorry about that. Like other threads where I tried to post something thoughtful, that thread became infested with assholes. I asked Ryan to pull it, and so now it's gone. I will post some pictures of the finished workbench here when it's done, but I think I am now a bit gun-shy about showing the long, twisty path and the design / build / redesign / rebuild process.

Bah, F them. I'd love to see finished result.

 

[rXc3NtR1c]

Me too. I like out of the box / left field stuff. Sometimes it's hard to let go of preconceived ideas but once you're past it I find I'm usually wondering why I didn't do that sooner

 

[Denwood]

Jess, the path to a final result, including the mistakes/redirections makes for a much more valuable post series than just the result I say post away.

I sourced the Leaf to "star" in a car shoot we did to launch one of our new products: https://vimeo.com/96495769

I liked driving it so much, I asked Nissan to let me take it for a few days. We were just on the edge of leasing it..

 

[hazexban]

People shat on that thread? I am sorry to hear that, I too was wondering why it was pulled.

People ****. Love your work.

 

[Modern Jess]

Jess, the path to a final result, including the mistakes/redirections makes for a much more valuable post series than just the result I say post away.

I would have thought so. That was why I posted it. Apparently, people got caught up on the fact that in my mkII design, I was using strut channel, and that contravened some unwritten law about Thou Shalt Use Welded Square Tube.

So here's another rambling brain dump: I work in an engineering field, and I like to say (and remind people, even) that engineering is the art of compromise. Scientists get to deal with absolutes, perfect precision, and frictionless environments. Engineering is about finding the compromises - usually between cost, time, and performance -- that scientists don't have to worry about in their theoretical world. Further, for every engineering decision, there is a choice to make about what we're optimizing for. Strength? Speed? Weight? Size? Cost? Manufacturability? Sometimes it's "all of the above", which usually isn't feasible. Again, compromise.

The kerfuffle over my workbench has gotten me thinking about my projects, and my shop, why I take the approaches that I do, and that continual decision-making process. Cost is sometimes one of the considerations, but I'm usually mortified by the suggestion that ROI plays a part in selecting materials and approaches in my shop. I'm not optimizing for ROI. I'm optimizing for convenience of use, or space (since I have a finite amount of it) or the opportunity for more storage, or a host of other nontraditional optimizing factors.

I've concluded, very recently, that the unstated factor that I optimize for the most is interest. I am optimizing my projects by what I am interested in learning or doing or seeing. There were many reasons that went into (for instance) the ceiling, but the most important one was probably that I thought it would be interesting, both to do and to have as a finished result. The LED lights are there because I was interested in pushing the boundaries of what was possible at the time. The ventilation system is there because I was interested in building it, and programming it. This is a hobby shop, after all. It's not a business. I don't have to answer to the boss. There are no customers, and no accountants, and no "bottom line" that has to be in the black.

So I will not apologize to anyone for doing something that cost too much, or isn't strong enough to meet their idealized notions of "enough", or defend my choices. I'm out here in this shop because I am interested in being here, doing stuff because I am interested in doing it. Nothing else is important.

Sorry for the rant. I think I'm a bit frustrated by the demands (mostly from asshats in that other thread) to defend my choice of strut channel vs. welded square tube.

I sourced the Leaf to "star" in a car shoot we did to launch one of our new products: https://vimeo.com/96495769

I liked driving it so much, I asked Nissan to let me take it for a few days. We were just on the edge of leasing it..

I remember you telling me about the photo shoot, just didn't realize you got to keep the car for a few more days. Makes sense, and glad you liked it.

I've heard the Leaf is a bit anemic in the power department, by electric car standards. I haven't driven one, so I don't really know, and you say it's got lots of torque, so I'll defer to someone who has actually driven one. I know the Fiat 500e is a kick in the pants, and they both have really similar HP ratings, so I suspect it comes down to how the gas pedal is mapped to the motor. The Fiat is pretty gentle off the line, but will really jump if you mash the pedal.

The Fiat 500e also has a bit of a torque-steer problem. If you really mash on the pedal and aren't going perfectly straight, the car will pull to one side from the torque. Again, this seems like it would be a flaw, but for some reason makes the car more entertaining to me. But then, I'm a Vespa guy, so I must like Italian vehicles that slap you in the face when you least expect it.

Hot.

 

[tjpavlov]

I watched a Ted talk recently from Adam Savage:

http://www.ted.com/talks/adam_savage_s_obsessions

Not to spoil it, but he talks about how sometimes the end result of an exercise isn't necessarily the point of the exercise in the first place. I think that is the way that it was with your build thread.

 

[Modern Jess]

Just saw a new tool (and a new tool category) in a video that Jimmy Diresta posted online today. It appears to be a handheld CNC router -- large format cutting in a very, very small footprint.

Kind of hard to explain, so watch the video. I have no idea if it's any good, but it seems really interesting.

https://shapertools.com

 

[dittle fart around]

Those are the best videos. I tend to worry to much on finishes and such. I like how he just slaps on the poly and he's done.

 

[Modern Jess]

Those are the best videos. I tend to worry to much on finishes and such. I like how he just slaps on the poly and he's done.

Yeah, there's something about his approaches to things that screams half-***, but he knows enough tricks and shortcuts to get good results anyway. I think I've now watched every one of his videos, and have learned a lot.

 

[Modern Jess]

I watched a Ted talk recently from Adam Savage:

http://www.ted.com/talks/adam_savage_s_obsessions

Not to spoil it, but he talks about how sometimes the end result of an exercise isn't necessarily the point of the exercise in the first place. I think that is the way that it was with your build thread.

I'm halfway through that video, thanks for the link. I do like Adam Savage.

 

[Denwood]

You posted this in Sak's thread..I had to laugh:

I was well into adulthood when my brother pointed out something to me that I had not realized on my own. "Jesse, when you get into something, you really go deep. Straight down the rabbit hole." And he was right. What's worse is that when that rabbit hole begins to bore me, I start looking around for something else to go deep on. Well, it's not like I plan on going deep. It just happens

Yep. Have the exact same challenges in life.

The Leaf is no race car, but because torque is pretty much instant, it feels quicker than it is.

I hope you do post a strut channel bench. Modular is not a bad thing. We used a pile of Kee Klamps and 2" tubing for all of the shop tables etc. that we built at Cinevate..and about 200 sheets of 3/4" Birch shop ply.. Everything can be broken down and reconfigured with one tool.

Took this after the LED lamp upgrades a few weeks back. The tables and work centers you see are built from Kee Clamps, 2" fence posts, plywood and laminate. Everything is on wheels too

 

[dittle fart around]

I hope you do post a strut channel bench. Modular is not a bad thing. We used a pile of Kee Klamps and 2" tubing for all of the shop tables etc. that we built at Cinevate..and about 200 sheets of 3/4" Birch shop ply.. Everything can be broken down and reconfigured with one tool.

I worked for Western Star Trucks in Portland. All the workbenches and storage racks were made of tubing and clamps. I don't know who made the clamps. It's so easy to change things around perfect for assembly line work.

We had all the jobs changed to accommodate a second shift. There was a group of engineers who came in and made the changes. The second shift only lasted a year and the same engineers came back to set the jobs up for one shift.

 

[TRS63]

I've concluded, very recently, that the unstated factor that I optimize for the most is interest. I am optimizing my projects by what I am interested in learning or doing or seeing. There were many reasons that went into (for instance) the ceiling, but the most important one was probably that I thought it would be interesting, both to do and to have as a finished result. The LED lights are there because I was interested in pushing the boundaries of what was possible at the time. The ventilation system is there because I was interested in building it, and programming it. This is a hobby shop, after all. It's not a business. I don't have to answer to the boss. There are no customers, and no accountants, and no "bottom line" that has to be in the black.

That's the spirit man! Our shop are here to make us happy, and the journey is often more important that the destination

Antoime

 

[E12-535iTurbo]

Bla bla, now let the man post some of his projects again.

 

[Modern Jess]

Disaster!

Shortly after the above photo was taken, unable to withstand its own gravity, the frame collapsed in on itself in a pile of steel, inadvertently ripping a hole in the fabric of space-time.

Just kidding! It's actually quite rigid. I got a feel for it as a bolted the last two pieces of channel into place (the two long stretchers) and was chuckling to myself as I finished. And it's actually not quite finished yet -- I'm using a temporary connector in one corner where a gusseted connecter will eventually live, and that should stiffen up the one direction where the frame can still flex a bit with force applied.

These are the brackets that were holding up the construction up to this point. They showed up on my doorstep last night:

I still think there's room for improvement. The long stretcher on the left-hand-side is oriented with the open face to the side, because that's the only way the bracket could work. I wanted to feel how much deflection I would get before I did anything drastic, and now that I've felt it, I would like to make it stronger.

The easiest (but not necessarily most effective) way to do that would be to sister another piece of channel -- oriented with the open side up -- to the existing stretcher. This would only be attached to the stretcher, and wouldn't have any attachment point to the rest of the frame. To do so, I would have to drill holes in the side of the new piece of strut channel and bolt it to the open face of the existing one. The open top of the new one would then be used to bolt through the cabinet that it will be supporting along several points. I think this will be sufficient, but again, I'll have to feel it to know for sure.

A more complete solution would be to replace the existing stretcher with one of the factory-doubled channels that Unistrut makes, and orient it along its strongest axis. This would raise the whole bottom rail a bit, and start eating into the cabinet space, so that's the compromise -- strength for space. Is it worth it? I may yet find out.

Another open question is whether the loctite I applied to all the bolts will be sufficient, or whether I'll have to resort to split rings, which I was trying to avoid:

After tightening all the bolts half a turn past freaking tight, I was surprised, when making adjustments here and there, how easy it was to unbolt some of them shortly afterward. That's something else I'll have to keep an eye on.

All in all, though, I'm very pleased with the way it's shaping up. I love it when a plan -- or three planes -- come together.

 

[Denwood]

Perfect time to seam weld that strut channel together...before somone drops some red matter in your shop and a space-time paradox ends the world

So the corner brackets are an off the shelf SC product? How did you mount the castors?

 

[Modern Jess]

Perfect time to seam weld that strut channel together...before somone drops some red matter in your shop and a space-time paradox ends the world

Hah!

So the corner brackets are an off the shelf SC product?

Yep. Unistrut P2226, which I bought from unistrutsales.com. I hesitated to use it in the first iteration of the mkII bench, because they're a bit expensive for what is basically a big hunk of metal with some holes in it. They're really the only corner connector that makes sense for this application, though, so cost went to the bottom of the optimization list.

How did you mount the castors?

Threaded square tube endcap inserts. They're meant for square tube, obviously, but someone on Amazon showed a picture in his review of how they could be pressed into the end of a piece of strut channel. It shaves a bit of plastic off as they go in, but they do fit. And despite being plastic/resin (with a metal threaded insert), they're rated for some ridiculous weight limit. I chose the 1/2"-13 variety and matched the casters to that.

EDIT: The first ones I got were from Amazon, but then I changed my mind about the thread size. The ones I used were from McMaster: http://www.mcmaster.com/#60945k22/=13v8k2o

And those are rated for 1,000 pounds apiece. That should just about do it.

 

[Modern Jess]

Addendum: The one direction that the frame can currently flex is if I stand in front of the short side and push the top edge away from me. The one additional bracket I'm still waiting on will alleviate that, I think, but I can probably do more.

I've decided to add another long stretcher, running between the top corners on the left-hand-side (referencing the photo of the frame above). On the far end, it will be braced with a corner connector that joins three pieces of channel with one more additional gusset, oriented in the direction that will help prevent that flex. I can't use that additional gusset on the close end, because it will intrude into the cabinet. But the other end (the end with the wheel clamp on the motorcycle lift) is fair game.

So now I wait some more.

 

[OopsClunkThud]

When the top is added it will do the same as having runners at the top of the left and right sides (as pictured)

edit: well other than corner gussets, the top will not give you that. But you are adding cabinets to the space under the top, right? That would serve as a really good gusset.

 

[Modern Jess]

When the top is added it will do the same as having runners at the top of the left and right sides (as pictured)

Mostly, yes. But since the front and back (as pictured) are only 1 5/8" wide, and since we're now talking about screws into plywood, it seems like there's still going to be an opportunity for the frame to parallelogram a bit. The extra gusset in the far left upper corner -- plus proper 1/2" metal bolts into 1/4" thick metal brackets -- should resist that, yes?

 

[Modern Jess]

But you are adding cabinets to the space under the top, right? That would serve as a really good gusset.

Agreed. The cabinet will brace the heck out of the frame. But I'm now in the mode of trying to prove that strut channel can be made rigid, so relying on the cabinet as bracing feels like cheating. Plus, the lower stretcher on the left deflects a bit more than I'm comfortable with, so bolting the cabinet to the upper left stretcher (that I haven't added yet) should help carry the weight of the cabinet.

Or, to put it another way: Can't hurt, might help.

 

[Modern Jess]

Didn't manage to reply to this at the time:

Took this after the LED lamp upgrades a few weeks back. The tables and work centers you see are built from Kee Clamps, 2" fence posts, plywood and laminate. Everything is on wheels too

Really awesome workspace! So many horizontal surfaces. Imagine what I could pile onto them!

 

[Modern Jess]

Here's the design I'm currently working from. This has evolved slightly in the last 24 hours to add some additional stiffness. The cabinet has also evolved significantly since the last time I showed it in a different thread. I've eliminated the sub-horizontal surface, and the cabinet now fills just about the whole volume.